skins island connection Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 15 hours ago, Burgold said: There are two things to that. I think one aspect of being a great coach is putting together a great coaching staff. In NASCAR, too, i bet it isn't only about the driver. That said, while Joe put together a fantastic staff Bugel, Henning, Pettibone, etc. It's remarkable how little success any of them had away from Joe. Joe's coaching tree is actually pretty small whereas you can make an argument that Bill Walsh had many head coaches in waiting. Joe made his assistants rise and be great, but they were never quite great without Joe. Even stranger, Jay Gruden likely will have a tremendous coaching legacy despite his inability to succeed here. This is true, but the key to success is putting together the assistants who have strengths in the same pattern that fits what Gibbs wanted to accomplish. Much like an engine, if you put in the wrong sized plugs, you will not get the most out of the engine, or using an air filter too constrictive, or a belt that's a little too long. TBH, I don't really consider Bill Walsh to be THAT great. Was he a good coach? Sure, but not to the level of Gibbs. Take away Jerry Rice and he ends up being an average-at-best coach. During his time, the NFC West was one of if not the weakest divisions in the league, so he was all but guaranteed a minimum of 6 wins per year. The concept of scoring as many points as quickly as possible to force opponents to abandon their running game was his forte', and with Rice he could do it. So, I think people put Walsh up on a pedestal early on, as the 49ers were considered the 'golden boys' back then and other teams were frowned upon in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, skins island connection said: During his time, the NFC West was one of if not the weakest divisions in the league, so he was all but guaranteed a minimum of 6 wins per year. The NFC West only had four teams at the time. In the two years that the 49ers won back-to-back SBs, the Saints were 10-6/9-7 and the Rams were 10-6/11-5. The Falcons were crap. Yes, at the time the Skins had to deal with the tough Eagles and Giants, but by the late 80s both the Cowboys and Cardinals were garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixtion_skin Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 2:01 AM, kingdaddy said: It's beyond ridiculous....but it adds to Gibbs greatness that he accomplished what he did without a roster full of hall of fame players. No doubt the strike year Super Bowls are holding back some of our HOF caliber players. What other franchise has been to 4 Super Bowls and had so few hall of famers? Shame on the jackass writers for not recognizing players like Joe Jacoby, Gary Clark and others....I remember getting Jim Lachey and how dominant he was....so was Wilbur Marshall when he came from the Bears. Those two were game changing additions for the Skins. Is Charles Mann Hall of Fame worthy? I'll tell you who is that will never be recognized.....Joe Bugel, architect of the greatest offensive line in NFL history. I ****in hate Peter King! I agree with some of the sentiments above. The impression I get from the first three Superbowls (less so the 4th) is that the Redskins did not have the best roster. I got the impression from the Redskins players and from what I saw. I am pretty sure it was this board where I heard that Matt Millen was shocked that the Redskins roster was not as talented as other teams he had been on (Raiders and 49ers). No jokes about his GM’ment in Detroit!). This, 3 SB wins and the fact that Parcells and Walsh both thought Gibbs was the best coach when it came to tactics and use of personnel, convinces me he was the best. For me Gibbs did more with less - better than nearly all the coaches of his era. I might say only Parcells would compete in this area. Best coach in Sports? I know nothing about NASCAR (nor do I want to). However, it is an incredible achievement to be successful in two sports. Especially ones so different. I am sure someone can think of other examples. I cannot. Gibbs 2.0 was not great- For me it does not taint his legacy enough to even comment on. It is a bit like complaining a Michelin star chef made you a bad cup of coffee when you went to visit him once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 9 hours ago, hail2skins said: The NFC West only had four teams at the time. In the two years that the 49ers won back-to-back SBs, the Saints were 10-6/9-7 and the Rams were 10-6/11-5. The Falcons were crap. Yes, at the time the Skins had to deal with the tough Eagles and Giants, but by the late 80s both the Cowboys and Cardinals were garbage. Yes, the NFC West only had 4 teams, and SF was one of them, and they couldn't play against themselves, so that means they could only play their 3 opponents 2 times per year, which is simple; 3 x 2 = 6. In 1988-1989, the Saints and Rams finally started playing good, but for the most part of the 1980's, they were the Redskins of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 ANY Redskin fan out there that doesn't recognize what Gibbs 2.0 did as an amazing accomplishment is an absolute moron. And I don't say these things on message boards - not my thing. been here since he came back in 2004 and mostly just read. But any **** talk of Gibbs should result in a ban and a kick to your junk. He took our **** for a team to the playoffs twice! Even losing with Gibbs was never, didn't even come close to the **** show that Gruden, Shannahan, etc showed. Gibbs is one the greatest leaders and a top 5 NFL coach of all time, I'd argue top 3. Only Bellichick and Lombardi even deserve to be in the same conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Gibbs greatest strength is his ability to surround himself with the best people. Is he a race car genius? Probably not. But I have no doubts he went out and got the best supporting staff possible. In his first tenure he had top notch assistants like Beathard and Pettibone and a world class GM in Beathard. In his second tenure...okay Vinny sucked but he still went out and got Gregg Williams, Al Saunders etc. Leadership is surrounding yourself with people smarter than you in specific areas, delegating to them, and taking in their expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 1:28 PM, Burgold said: You misunderstand the thrust of this thread. His NASCAR successes has nothing to do with him being a great football coach. It does have something to do with him being a great motivator, leader, and coach. It's pretty rare for an athlete to be successful in two sports at the highest level. It's equally rare (or moreso) for a coach to be successful in two completely different sports at the highest level. To have climbed the mountain and been among the best and Hall of Fame worthy in two completely distinct fields is impressive. I picked hockey as a joke, but I could have just as easily picked rhythmic gymnastics. Given a month or two of study, Gibbs could probably coach up several gold medal winning gymnasts. He owns Joe Gibbs Racing........I'm pretty sure he isn't out there making drivers better and "coaching" them. And considering he owns a Nascar team, and staffed properly along with getting good drivers isn't "rare" success, nascar is completely different than football. You act as if Joe Gibbs made Stewart, Labonte and Busch better drivers. It's a great accomplishment, but it's not like he went to another big 4 sport (NHL, NBA, MLB) and won championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: ANY Redskin fan out there that doesn't recognize what Gibbs 2.0 did as an amazing accomplishment is an absolute moron. And I don't say these things on message boards - not my thing. been here since he came back in 2004 and mostly just read. But any **** talk of Gibbs should result in a ban and a kick to your junk. He took our **** for a team to the playoffs twice! Even losing with Gibbs was never, didn't even come close to the **** show that Gruden, Shannahan, etc showed. I'll gladly wear the moron label for not deigning to characterize Gibbs 2.0 as "amazing." And losing with Gibbs NEVER being a ****show? The first half of 2006 was horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Didnt call it amazing... said it was an amzaing accomplishment. 50% of his years here ended in the playoffs... we have 28 years of absolute **** and yet people like you choose to not give Gibbs credit. I'll never understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think it's ok to think gibbs two was a failure simply because it didn't live up to the expectations but I tend to agree with inigo, that it was a pretty good accomplishment, coming back after a 12 year hiatus and leading this dumpster fire of a team to playoff appearances twice in 4 years. It would have been a lot more impressive had we been 12 and 4 or 13 and 3 in his last year and had a few years of success afterwards, that would have lead me to believe he had changed the culture but in my opinion what it was, was a really, really good coach doing an amazing job of stopping multiple gunshot wounds with bandaids then he left and the patient unsurprisingly died on arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igglesfan Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 One of the most “homerrific” posts I’ve ever seen. No informed and objective individual could ever make a statement like this one, regardless of fandom status. joe Gibbs was a fantastic coach. But “greatest coach in sports history”?? He’s certainly not that, nor even the greatest in NFL history for that matter... At minimum - MINIMUM - he would have to take a back seat to Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Don Shula and even Bill Belichick (as much as I also hold him in disdain). And that’s just in the NFL alone. In all of sports, he’s not even in top ten consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, igglesfan said: One of the most “homerrific” posts I’ve ever seen. No informed and objective individual could ever make a statement like this one, regardless of fandom status. I think Burgold was just trying to highlight the excellence Joe has had in multiple sports, football and NASCAR. Where I disagree is using his second stint here to bolster his argument. Even throwing out his first "get your feet wet" year of 2004, he was 24-24 in the regular season the other three seasons. With one playoff win. That is still mediocre, regardless of the clown show the organization has been since the first time he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, hail2skins said: I think Burgold was just trying to highlight the excellence Joe has had in multiple sports, football and NASCAR. Where I disagree is using his second stint here to bolster his argument. Even throwing out his first "get your feet wet" year of 2004, he was 24-24 in the regular season the other three seasons. With one playoff win. That is still mediocre, regardless of the clown show the organization has been since the first time he left. Yep. To my knowledge, Joe Gibbs is the only coach enshrined in two sport Hall of Fames. That's pretty wild. Neither Brown, Lombardi, Shula, or Belichick has ever done that. Pat Riley never did that. Neither did Phil Jackson or Red Auerback nor Casey Stengel. It is to my knowledge a completely unique fete. 8 World Championships in two sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igglesfan Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Burgold said: Pat Riley never did that. Neither did Phil Jackson or Red Auerback nor Casey Stengel. 8 World Championships in two sports. His admission into the Nascar HOF isn’t as a “coach”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I love when an opposing team's fan comes on to our board and calls people out for being homers. Its called Extremeskins for a reason. Go listen to Howard Eskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo'sRangers Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: Didnt call it amazing... said it was an amzaing accomplishment... I will damnit. It is amazing to organize a TEAM(S), regardless of phylum(s), and be in TWO sports Hall of Fames. It IS ****ing amazing. Drops mike...Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, igglesfan said: (as much as I ALSO hold him in disdain Clearly your opinion is not without bias either. 1 hour ago, igglesfan said: His admission into the Nascar HOF isn’t as a “coach”. There aren't any coaches in nascar, the closest thing would be a crew chief. There's absolutely no doubt joe gibbs is responsible for putting those 5 championship teams together and not just a check signer. Would you prefer we call joe gibbs the greatest team builder? Team motivator? What's your preference? Because even a totally unbiased person looking at this from the outside would see that joe gibbs is in the NFL's top 100 this year making him one of the greatest coaches in the nfl history and his 5 championships and secondary hall of fame credentials would certainly put him in the debate for greatest coach/ team builder in sports history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, redskinss said: Because even a totally unbiased person looking at this from the outside would see that joe gibbs is in the NFL's top 100 this year making him one of the greatest coaches in the nfl history and his 5 championships and secondary hall of fame credentials would certainly put him in the debate for greatest coach/ team builder in sports history. I think where people are talking past each other is interpreting that Gibbs excelling in both the NFL and NASCAR taken to mean that he was the best coach/best executive ever in both sports, which isn't necessarily true. He is a person that comes to mind when you think of a non-player who has excelled in two separate sports (Bo and Deion being actual players who excelled in two pro sports leagues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Just heard Joe Gibbs interview on 980 radio. When asked about Haskins he did not give him a ringing endorsement. Per Kevin Sheehan he believes it sounds like the coaches are not sure on Haskins. I think if Kevin O'Connell thought Haskins could be ready for next year he would have fought harder to convince the new Head Coach that he could make Haskins career take off. He is probably thrilled to be moving on so his coaching success is not tied to Haskins performance next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hp703 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 22 hours ago, Burgold said: Yep. To my knowledge, Joe Gibbs is the only coach enshrined in two sport Hall of Fames. That's pretty wild. Neither Brown, Lombardi, Shula, or Belichick has ever done that. Pat Riley never did that. Neither did Phil Jackson or Red Auerback nor Casey Stengel. It is to my knowledge a completely unique fete. 8 World Championships in two sports. I would barely consider Nascar the same level of sport...hence the term "motorsports". Also like someone else pointed out, he was more of a manager that assembled good drivers...find it hard to believe he "coached" up any of them to be championship caliber drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 2/5/2020 at 9:30 AM, veteranskinsfan said: Just heard Joe Gibbs interview on 980 radio. When asked about Haskins he did not give him a ringing endorsement. Per Kevin Sheehan he believes it sounds like the coaches are not sure on Haskins. I think if Kevin O'Connell thought Haskins could be ready for next year he would have fought harder to convince the new Head Coach that he could make Haskins career take off. He is probably thrilled to be moving on so his coaching success is not tied to Haskins performance next year. Nobody should be sure on Haskins. He had some moments but was for the most part pretty poor last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Coach Gibbs is definitely a legend. I would place him in the top three, at least, of all time great co aches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 And Gibbs racing just won another Daytona 500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 22 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: And Gibbs racing just won another Daytona 500 Incredible....everything Gibbs touches turns to silver....as in championship trophies. #GOAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Incredible....everything Gibbs touches turns to silver....as in championship trophies. #GOAT Just wish he decided to touch a little more football and a little less racing in his lifetime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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