What Offer Would Change Your Mind on Trading Down???

[RWJ]

Only trade Skins should do is IF Lions want to trade Stafford and want Tua or the kid from Oregon, they trade up from #3 to #2 take Tua and we get their #3 and one of their draft picks and draft Young at #3.  That's the only logical trade. 

[FrFan]

4 hours ago, RWJ said:

Only trade Skins should do is IF Lions want to trade Stafford and want Tua or the kid from Oregon, they trade up from #3 to #2 take Tua and we get their #3 and one of their draft picks and draft Young at #3.  That's the only logical trade. 

 

[bakedtater1]

5 hours ago, RWJ said:

Only trade Skins should do is IF Lions want to trade Stafford and want Tua or the kid from Oregon, they trade up from #3 to #2 take Tua and we get their #3 and one of their draft picks and draft Young at #3.  That's the only logical trade. 

I agree with this..trade 2 for 3 still get chase and add a 2nd round pick possibly a 2 and 3

[Renegade7]

7 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Is Tua an elite? Is he the next Tom brady............Brady or Lawrence Taylor? Hmmmmmm

 

Sigh...Young is a linemen, so its Brady or Reggie White.  Though neither Tua or Young will be as good as those two, that should be an easy hypothetical question, right?

[cakmoney61]

Quinn didn't sound very believable to me about Stafford being their QB this year.  It may have everything to do with not knowing if Stafford will be healthy enough to play as opposed to the fact that they are looking at drafting Tua depending on his health.

 

Regardless, I would not do a trade with the Lions if they still have Stafford on draft day.  They may actually want Tua with a plan to let him sit out until 2021.  But I wouldn't take that chance if I'm the Redskins and I want CY.  

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Sigh...Young is a linemen, so its Brady or Reggie White.  Though neither Tua or Young will be as good as those two, that should be an easy hypothetical question, right?

Sigh.....ok.....(insert greatest QB and Defensive lineman) which would you take? Sigh.......nevermind.

[kingdaddy]

CBS Sports has us trading back to 5 with Miami for #5,18,39 and likely another high round pick in 2021.

With the 5 and 18 we would take Simmons and Ruggs according to the article...Okudah would be there at 5 too. Ruggs could be our Tyreek Hill...

These mocks with the options available are very tempting, who knows what is best for the future of this team but its good to know that Bruce won't be pulling the strings. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@kingdaddy the tempting piece to me would be the 2021 pick. If it’s a 1st then I’m considering it. I may ask to get another 3rd from Miami too just to add to our stock for 2020. 
 

I would take Simmons there at 5 and at 18 I might take an OT. Or, maybe take an OT at 5 like Andrew Thomas and go with Kenneth Murray or Patrick Queen at 18. This is a deep WR class so I’d wait to take a couple WRs in R3. But at some point I’d want to take a DE unlsss we just go sign Yanick Ngakue in FA. 
 

That’s really the only scenario I think I’m “ok” trading off 2. If we sign Ngakue in FA and cut Moses post draft once we get an OT. The cap savings from Moses should still allow us to go for a TE, CB and FS. But we’d be able to fill some other holes in the draft with all the picks. I’d ask for 5, 18, 39, a 3rd and a 2021 1st. 
 

with 5, 18, 39, 66, 69, and our 4/4/5 I’d feel pretty good about building out the core of this team, adding an OT, LB, CB, WR, TE and DE through 3 rounds. 
 

Andrew Thomas, Kenneth Murray, Trevon Diggs, Adam Trautman, Bryan Edwards, KJ Hill and signing Yanick Ngakue would be pretty sick. But I still want ChSe haha 

[kingdaddy]

9 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@kingdaddy the tempting piece to me would be the 2021 pick. If it’s a 1st then I’m considering it. I may ask to get another 3rd from Miami too just to add to our stock for 2020. 
 

I would take Simmons there at 5 and at 18 I might take an OT. Or, maybe take an OT at 5 like Andrew Thomas and go with Kenneth Murray or Patrick Queen at 18. This is a deep WR class so I’d wait to take a couple WRs in R3. But at some point I’d want to take a DE unlsss we just go sign Yanick Ngakue in FA. 
 

That’s really the only scenario I think I’m “ok” trading off 2. If we sign Ngakue in FA and cut Moses post draft once we get an OT. The cap savings from Moses should still allow us to go for a TE, CB and FS. But we’d be able to fill some other holes in the draft with all the picks. I’d ask for 5, 18, 39, a 3rd and a 2021 1st. 
 

with 5, 18, 39, 66, 69, and our 4/4/5 I’d feel pretty good about building out the core of this team, adding an OT, LB, CB, WR, TE and DE through 3 rounds. 
 

Andrew Thomas, Kenneth Murray, Trevon Diggs, Adam Trautman, Bryan Edwards, KJ Hill and signing Yanick Ngakue would be pretty sick. But I still want ChSe haha 

If Miami throws us there 2021 1st in addition to two firsts and a third this year that's potentially the #1 overall pick next year if they're starting Tua. 

We would have to consider it.

However, if Young is considered a guy who elevates the entire defense then just take him and go celebrate. 

[sjinhan]

We HAVE to trade down.   We are not 1 “Khalid Mack” away from the promise land nor are we 1 “Drew Brees” away....

 

 

as much as I do agree that getting a DRew Brees type of prospect can set you up for success for years but is Any of the QB a “cant miss” prospects?   I dont think so... will one of these prospects be available again in future drafts???  Absolutely!

 

if you are worried about Haskins then you try to trade with for future picks so you have ammo to move up later... 

 

we have sucked for over 2 decades... what is the urgency to hit the lotto ticket with Tua?  Lets go with the safer and higher probability route in my mind which is trading for a massive haul of drafts picks and hope that our new FO and HC knows what they are doing....  if theses new guys cant succeed fail at that then what confidence you have that they will be able to successful with either Tua or Young.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I doubt they’d give us theirs. Probably Houston’s since it’s probably gonna be a projected 18-28 pick range. 

either way, that would be a draft haul. And if we spent to get a CB, FS, TE and Yanick in FA it might play out well

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

Sigh.....ok.....(insert greatest QB and Defensive lineman) which would you take? Sigh.......nevermind.

 

QB without question.  I get what you were trying to say and this may be me nitpicking, but it's not really applicable and the answer even if it was should be obvious.

2 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

 

Regardless, I would not do a trade with the Lions if they still have Stafford on draft day.  They may actually want Tua with a plan to let him sit out until 2021.  But I wouldn't take that chance if I'm the Redskins and I want CY.  

 

That's a good point.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, sjinhan said:

We HAVE to trade down.   We are not 1 “Khalid Mack” away from the promise land nor are we 1 “Drew Brees” away....

 

 

as much as I do agree that getting a DRew Brees type of prospect can set you up for success for years but is Any of the QB a “cant miss” prospects?   I dont think so... will one of these prospects be available again in future drafts???  Absolutely!

 

if you are worried about Haskins then you try to trade with for future picks so you have ammo to move up later... 

 

we have sucked for over 2 decades... what is the urgency to hit the lotto ticket with Tua?  Lets go with the safer and higher probability route in my mind which is trading for a massive haul of drafts picks and hope that our new FO and HC knows what they are doing....  if theses new guys cant succeed fail at that then what confidence you have that they will be able to successful with either Tua or Young.

 

The 49ers HAD to trade down last draft. They were not 1 "Khalid (sic) Mack" away from the promised land. 

[kingdaddy]

Niners are an interesting team in that they NEED a QB to get over the hump, everything else is in place now. I like how theyre built and would hope we can do the same thing in DC. Would the Niners have been better with Kyler Murray or Bosa???? Hard to say over the long haul.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, sjinhan said:

We HAVE to trade down.   We are not 1 “Khalid Mack” away from the promise land nor are we 1 “Drew Brees” away....

 

Fun fact: Von Miller was drafted in 2011 when the Broncos were far from 1 Von Miller away from the promised land.  They were still able to build a contender and won the SB a few years later.

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Fun fact: Von Miller was drafted in 2011 when the Broncos were far from 1 Von Miller away from the promised land.  They were still able to build a contender and won the SB a few years later.

 

Fun fact: Broncos havent made the playoffs since winning the superbowl 5 seasons ago.

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Fun fact: Broncos havent made the playoffs since winning the superbowl 5 seasons ago.

 

Fun fact:

 

Von Miller (#2 overall pick in 2011) has made the playoffs 4 times.  He's played in 7 playoff games.  Won a SB.  Was SB MVP.

 

Cam Newton (#1 overall pick in 2011) has made the playoffs 4 times.  He's played in 7 playoff games.  Lost a SB.

 

I don't think it's even necessary to post the playoff appearances/games from the other 2011 QBs.

 

This false narrative that you need to be 1 player away in order to draft a great EDGE prospect is very... strange.

[Renegade7]

40 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Fun fact:

 

Von Miller (#2 overall pick in 2011) has made the playoffs 4 times.  He's played in 7 playoff games.  Won a SB.  Was SB MVP.

 

Cam Newton (#1 overall pick in 2011) has made the playoffs 4 times.  He's played in 7 playoff games.  Lost a SB.

 

I don't think it's even necessary to post the playoff appearances/games from the other 2011 QBs.

 

This false narrative that you need to be 1 player away in order to draft a great EDGE prospect is very... strange.

 

Half of Von Millers career has been wasted because the Broncos didnt make sure they had a franchise QB first, they have been swinging and missing on this left and right, Manning was a bandaid and was a shell of himself by time they won the super bowl.

 

You dont build a championship contender around a generational passrusher, you build around a franchise QB.  Having a generational pass rusher doesnt even keep you in the yearly conversation for playoff contenders, let alone super bowl.

 

This isnt about being a generational pass rusher away. This is about a generational pass rusher can only do so much and needs a team around them to even be relevant.  The generational pass rusher puts you over the top, the franchise QB helps keep you in the conversation every year.

 

Ask Green Bay, theyve wasted Rodgers career as well making weak attempts to keep elite talents around him, but hes in the playoffs pretty much every year.  Our priority needs to be Haskins first, and right now the only person he had to throw to is McClaurin.  Its Brunell/Moss all over again, at some point unless this is addressed Terry will get doubled and it's going to hurt Haskins development. 

 

Guice is done we dont even have a running game to keep from asking Haskins to do too much too early in his development. This is my point on why we need to trade down.

[HTTRDynasty]

28 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Half of Von Millers career has been wasted because the Broncos didnt make sure they had a franchise QB first

 

So you think the Broncos should have passed on Von, traded back and taken Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert instead?  The Broncos took the BPA, which was the smartest thing they could have done in their situation.

 

36 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You dont build a championship contender around a generational passrusher, you build around a franchise QB.  Having a generational pass rusher doesnt even keep you in the yearly conversation for playoff contenders, let alone super bowl.

 

The ultimate goal isn't to be in the yearly conversation for playoff contenders.  The ultimate goal is to win a SB.  The Broncos did that.  

 

38 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This isnt about being a generational pass rusher away. This is about a generational pass rusher can only do so much and needs a team around them to even be relevant.

 

Any one player can only do so much.  Why do you think the best QBs in the league don't automatically win the SB every year?

 

46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ask Green Bay, theyve wasted Rodgers career as well making weak attempts to keep elite talents around him, but hes in the playoffs pretty much every year.  Our priority needs to be Haskins first, and right now the only person he had to throw to is McClaurin.  Its Brunell/Moss all over again, at some point unless this is addressed Terry will get doubled and it's going to hurt Haskins development. 

 

Guice is done we dont even have a running game to keep from asking Haskins to do too much too early in his development. This is my point on why we need to trade down.

 

Our priority is Haskins.  Drafting Young will help Haskins tremendously, just like it did in college.

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

So you think the Broncos should have passed on Von, traded back and taken Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert instead?  The Broncos took the BPA, which was the smartest thing they could have done in their situation.

 

 

No, but because they never prioritized that after drafting him, hes basically withering away out there.  That speaks volumes about this idea that we cant pass on him, it's not that simple. 

 

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The ultimate goal isn't to be in the yearly conversation for playoff contenders.  The ultimate goal is to win a SB.  The Broncos did that.  

 

Ask the Ravens how they feel about how long it took to be relevant after each other super bowl wins.  They made playoffs 3 times in 7 years after their first one, and once in 5 seasons after your second. 

 

The first time they gutted the roster they couldnt afford and then overpaid their average QB who was on a hot streak having to gut the roster again.  Is two super bowls worth stretches like that that take that long to recover from?  Again, not that simple.

 

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Any one player can only do so much.  Why do you think the best QBs in the league don't automatically win the SB every year?

 

How many elite QBs make it to the playoffs consistently vs elite pass rushers?  Your welcome to compare that to teams that have both if that's your arguement, but the QB on all those teams isnt throwing TD passes to the pass rusher and the pass rusher isnt blocking for him, promise you that.

 

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Our priority is Haskins.  Drafting Young will help Haskins tremendously, just like it did in college.

 

Not if Terry is taken out the game and leaving Haskins on an island by himself on offense.  Ask him if hed rather have weapons on offense and someone that can get 10+ sacks opposite Sweat, and see what he says, I'm waiting for the quote as well.

 

It's obvious Haskins wants him to be here, but hes smart enough to know we dont have linebackers or secondary so teams will screen and quick slant us to death to neutralize him until we fix that, which could take years if we dint draft again until the third round.

[HTTRDynasty]

@Renegade7 what exactly are you arguing here?  You obviously think elite QBs keep you relevant - which appears to be a bigger goal for you than winning Super Bowls - but it seems like you think we already have a potential elite QB.  If that's the case, why would you pass up the BPA?  To just focus on building up the offense and ignoring defense?  It won't matter how many weapons we add on offense if we can't stop anyone.  And it's also much easier to find offensive weapons outside the first round than it is to find elite pass rushers, particularly in this draft.

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

@Renegade7 what exactly are you arguing here?  You obviously think elite QBs keep you relevant - which appears to be a bigger goal for you than winning Super Bowls - but it seems like you think we already have a potential elite QB.  If that's the case, why would you pass up the BPA?  To just focus on just building up the offense and ignoring defense?  It won't matter how many weapons we add on offense if we can't stop anyone.  And it's also much easier to find offensive weapons outside the first round than it is to find elite pass rushers, particularly in this draft.

 

Passing on Young isnt ignoring the defense, I've been saying this the entire thread.  

 

Yannick Ngakoue is a free agent, from DC, and 24 years old. Sign him, put him opposite Sweat, and focus on developing and building around Haskins.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yannick_Ngakoue

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2020-nfl-free-agency-ranking-the-100-best-free-agents-where-do-dak-prescott-and-tom-brady-land/amp/

 

It will be harder if hes on his back or has no one to throw to.  I dont know if he will be elite, but I know he wont be if we repeat our habit of how we develop QBs here, basically never prioritizing making sure they are as successful as possible.

[HTTRDynasty]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Passing on Young isnt ignoring the defense, I've been saying this the entire thread.  

 

Yannick Ngakoue is a free agent, from DC, and 24 years old. Sign him, put him opposite Sweat, and focus on developing and building around Haskins.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yannick_Ngakoue

 

It will be harder if hes on his back or has no one to throw to.  I dont know if he will be elite, but I know he wont be if we repeat our habit of how we develop QBs here, basically never prioritizing making sure they are as successful as possible.

 

Ngakoue will likely be tagged.  If not, he'll likely top Khalil Mack's $23.5mm APY, when we could have Young for around $8mm.  The positional draft arbitrage at the EDGE position is the next highest after QB.

 

You realize we found McLaurin in the 3rd round last year, Harmon in the 6th and Sims as an UDFA, right?  Our scouts have proven they can identify WR talent.  This is considered by many to be the best WR draft in a very long time.  Why would you doubt they could find another weapon at WR outside the 1st round when they have proven their ability to do so in drafts with lesser overall WR talent. 

 

We also have the 6th most cap space in the league.  Why do you doubt we could add weapons at TE or WR through FA (at a much cheaper cost than adding Ngakoue)?

 

Also, Trent should be coming back.  Our interior OL is actually quite good.  Moses will be the only real weakness, and he's still league average at RT.  That's actually much more than most teams can say.

 

[Renegade7]

52 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Ngakoue will likely be tagged.  If not, he'll likely top Khalil Mack's $23.5mm APY, when we could have Young for around $8mm.  The positional draft arbitrage at the EDGE position is the next highest after QB.

 

Seeing conflicting reports on him getting more, .ore like $21 py, but even if they tag him, the 49ers reportedly dont intend to tag Arik Armstead, who's another 10+ sack DE in his mid 20s.  The point is if you spend the money on this position now that you would eventually have to start paying Young, you can use that draft capital from a trade down to help fill out the back 7. 

 

Which do you think cost more money, signing a single elite pass rusher or filling out an entire back 7?  We are switching to 4-3 and both our top corners are possibly gone, one already gone.  The giants didnt have an elite back 7, they had an elite front 4 and made the back 7 less relevant.  But that back 7 has to come from somewhere now, not later, or the front 4 will get taken out the game by attacking the back 7. 

 

Young will be going through his last college game his entire career until we get that right. If we get that right. Remember how much fun switching from 4-3 to 3-4 was?

 

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You realize we found McLaurin in the 3rd round last year, Harmon in the 6th and Sims as an UDFA, right?  Our scouts have proven they can identify WR talent.  This is considered by many to be the best WR draft in a very long time.  Why would you doubt they could find another weapon at WR outside the 1st round when they have proven their ability to do so in drafts with lesser overall WR talent. 

 

This isnt jus about WR, and they should sign Amari Cooper jus to make sure we dont have this problem and to hurt Dallas as much as possible. I'd rather have Cooper then Hooper. Draft a TE in round 3, we seem to be more consistent good at that then draft WR in any round. Save last year. If you want to argue Kyle got our entire WR core in one draft class, why wouldnt you want to give him more draft picks via a trade down?

 

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We also have the 6th most cap space in the league.  Why do you doubt we could add weapons through FA (at a much cheaper cost than adding Ngakoue)?

 

You cant fill every need via free agency, cap prevents that.  Weapons is a need, our entire back 7 minus maybe Collins is a giant gapping hole right now that will make us getting to the playoffs that much harder.

 

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Also, Trent should be coming back.  Our interior OL is actually quite good.  Moses will be the only real weakness, and he's still league average at RT.  That's actually much more than most teams can say.

 

 

When is the last time Trent has played 16 games? He also took the entire year off and is also 31, we shoulda traded him when we had the chance.  Our oline has struggled to stay healthy for years now and been exacerbated by lack of depth.  You address that with draft picks first, FA second.

[mistertim]

Ngakoue is pretty good but he's not in Mack territory. 

 

Arik Armstead is going to flop if he goes somewhere else IMO. He basically thrived off of teams having to pay special attention to Nick Bosa. In his first 4 years in the NFL put together, he had a grand total of 9 sacks. Then suddenly last year he had 10 in one season. Do you really think it's a coincidence that that huge jump in production happened to coincide with the drafting of Bosa in 2019?