TSO Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, skinny21 said: I think it’s a good setup. My only concern is for down the road. If Rivera’s seat gets a bit hot, I’d rather someone with a long view be in charge. Not a factor for the foreseeable future though because I think Ron will probably have the longest leash ever given to anyone not named Gibbs (by this org), and given that, he should be better able to maintain a more macro view. Yeah, it’s good, not great, but better than anything we’ve ever had under Dan. A lot of this was discussed in plenty of detail in the thread I linked to. And you’re right, Ron should be able to maintain a more macro view because of his leash. Still, he’s already stated he’s impatient (as coaches usually are), and it’s a LOT on his plate, much of it new to him, so it wouldn’t be ideal if they keep it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said: Yeah, it’s good, not great, but better than anything we’ve ever had under Dan. A lot of this was discussed in plenty of detail in the thread I linked to. And you’re right, Ron should be able to maintain a more macro view because of his leash. Still, he’s already stated he’s impatient (as coaches usually are), and it’s a LOT on his plate, much of it new to him, so it wouldn’t be ideal if they keep it this way. Delegate, delegate.... delegate!! I’m hopeful Ron having a wealth of experience will assist in remaining mindful of what made/makes him great so he can continue to authentically excel in that role. My guess is Ron had a role that previously provided him the ability to speak to players as if it was them against everyone, including the FO. If he continues to engage in this manner his authenticity diminishes. A mans ego is a hell of a thing, combine that with a level of power never before experienced and the potential is there to lose sight of ones truth, especially if a rough stage occurs, which inevitably will happen. The hires thus far are positive signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 There are (and will continue to be) things that will require a coach to be able to focus on a task at hand and also be a able to respond to new and pressing stimuli. Perhaps meeting with a prospect at the combine and a new FA suddenly becomes available. It will then be imperative that a GM/VP player personnel/Team prez/whatever has a clear cut idea of how to proceed. Regardless of how good of a fireman RR actually is, he can't always put out 2 fires at once. That's where I'd love to see K.Smith be given enough leash to make "executive decisions" in addition to sharing a long term vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So now the big question is going to be if Kyle is running g the scouting departments, who is pulling the trigger on the actual moves? Kyle? Ron? Are they going to hire a GM to sit above the scouting department to be more of the decision maker? This is a good move, but I still don’t know who sets the strategy. Well, actually, I think we know Rivera will set the strategy. This is going to be interesting. Congrats to Kyle though. If Kyle is pulling the trigger on these players then I am extremely happy with what is going to happen at Redskins Park. I hope we continue to draft well and most importantly I hope we have a few more hits in free agency. We have been very good in the bargain bin of free agency with acquisitions like Zach Brown, Adrian Peterson, Pot Roast, Vernon Davis, DJ Swearinger and even Terrell Pryor even though he didn't produce here. We have also had big splashes like DJax, Norman, and Landon Collins. But from what we are hearing I think Kyle is going to be in charge of deciding who is going to be on this roster and Rivera is going to decide who is going to be on the game day roster. Rivera stated that he just wants to be in charge of the 46 man roster for game days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidFan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 15 hours ago, Gibbs828791 said: Bruce didnt draft bad, our worst drafts are with Scotty M here. Heck, Ron likes the roster, thats Bruces roster. The issue with Bruce was he was terrible at everything else. By all accounts a self serving, back stabber, needed all the credit, treated people terrible, boarder line evil. Unsure about the validity of that as it has been reported many times that Kyle created the draft board (Scot did as well) and he and Jay would draft with Jay's input on a few players he had to have like Trey Quinn. I'm sure Doug had opinions as well. Bruce was involved in trades and free agency more than drafting college athletes. Hope that is the case with Bruce gone and Kyle now at the top to work with Ron. Hopefully no more stupid trades where we overpay and no bonehead stubborn moves in regards to current roster. It's a new day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, method man said: I think it is clear now that we were able to get guys like DJ and Brown for peanuts because of their cancerous ways in the locker room. The fact that ZB only got a 1 year deal from us despite coming off a Pro Bowl year suggests that Team has been ok at picking up street FAs under Santos with all the guards in 2018, Hentges (good prospect but still unproven) and Orchard and others. However, there hasn’t been that home run yet of picking up a guy off waivers / street FA and having him become a major contributor like Waller with the Raiders As @skinny21 points out, I think the street FAs becoming meh guys on the roster is more the norm than expecting them to become all pros. In fact I'd take it a bit further and say that - most free agents brought in to a team are busts - most players in general who are brought into a team are busts That's one of the reasons I'm never big on bringing in big name whoever, and why I value trading down in the draft in almost any situation. The more lottery tickets you've got the more chances you've got at hitting the big one. Now, with some guys (the Campbell FA signing a few years ago that we passed on and got the 2 Big Macs instead) its like trading a powerball ticket that has a max winning of half a billion dollars for two little max value of $1000 tickets. And even now with the Chase Young debates, its more like we've got a powerball ticket for half a billion and trading down gives us a chance at powerball tickets for a couple of quarter million dollar prizes (say Okudah and Thomas if we can somehow pull that off). But the guys we bring in mid-season off the streets are purely like going to the corner store lottery to buy a ticket. We don't expect much from them, but we need players and they're available and there could be payoff but its generally nothing in comparison to what's available in the draft or in the main FA period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I do hope that Smith keeps somewhat of Bruce's stingy approach, with a better investment in keeping our own players. I won't even get into the bad trades that Bruce made, but just think about if we had kept Breeland? Like, isn't Doug's new role basically what the team didn't like about Scot - his mentoring players like Sua and Breeland through their frustrations on the team? I'd think that its more than that but if he's doing what Scot was doing, maybe they realized then that some of what Scot was doing was a necessary part of the FO. I still remember Doug during the announcements of Guice being drafted and him saying how he had done the research and had connections in the area where Guice is from, not unbelievable considering he went to and was coach at Grambling. I also hear about how Doug talks with Haskisn about being a QB (a Black QB) and the difficulties associated with it. Then he does the stuff with Warren Moon on holding a workshop about this. So just thinking as I type, I'm wondering how much DW and Kyle are going to work together to understand the psychological evaluations of players and their problems they (may) face as a college student and as a pro. I'd think that Kyle has a certain affinity towards players he scouted, liked and drafted, but I also wonder how much his ego will be in conflict with that. Say with losing Crowder or Long and thinking that he was replaceable and so going into the draft looking to replace him because he knows he's a really good scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I am a big fan of the hire. It's my favorite hire thus far. Heck even Mike Shanahan who hasn't worked with Kyle for years multiple times in different podcasts has hyped Kyle for being a great evaluator and hard worker. It wasn't hard to pick up from Cooley that the only person at Redskins Park in that FO that blew him away was Kyle. We've had really good drafts in recent years IMO and "meh" FA runs. I love that Kyle is the main dude now for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I'd judge Bruce in FA-pro personnel this way. A. Sticking to 2 years guaranteed money mostly. B plus. He overdid it at times but otherwise I liked it. B. Making this a likable place for players to come to: F C. Negotiation skills: D D. Trades: F E. General FA moves: D F. Good feel for the roster (close or rebuilding): F G. Managing the cap A H. Overall Grade D As Sheehan liked to say, Bruce's niche is to get mediocre players at bargain prices. Good riddance IMO. I think an underrated gem quote from Bruce was in a Finlay interview once where he gloated that yeah we lost Garcon and D. Jax but got most of that production back at a cheaper price with Pryor and Quick. And I think that statement coupled with agents saying he's the least trustworthy and one of the least prepared GMs in the league -- sums up his tenure well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 We've had worse VPs, I'll tell you that. Snyder picked him up before anyone could question it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: E. General FA moves: D See, this is where I'd think about giving him a potentially higher grade. Sure there are the guys like Mcs, Pryor, etc, but the fact that he was able to get them on decent deals that didn't hamstring us in the future, and gave us an opportunity to find good players should count for something. Like I said, think about ZB, DJ, even Flowers this year. Then there are guys like Hall, Bibbs, Hentges, M. Foster, Davis, ?AP?, Johnathan Cooper, Vigil, Junior, etc. Plus Id think that the fact that we kept more marginal guys under Bruce should count for something, Think Everett, Paul, and Dunbar. There are a lot more names in this block depending on how you rank them (Reed, Moses, Williams, Thompson, etc). but this is something we weren't doing under coaches before, even back to Gibbs, Spurrier and Marty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boston skins fan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I love it. Give Smith some more responsibility to prove he can handle it. If he can move him to the GM role in a yr. By all accounts this kid knows what hes doing so let him do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I dont think I've ever seen e.s. in such agreement on anything ever. Kyle smith must be the superman of talent evaluators or something. Mark your calendars because you'll probably never see this level of universal approval of anyone on here ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 21 hours ago, NickyJ said: For a little too long, I was wondering why anyone would be reporting to Alex Smith.... If it makes you feel better, you aren't alone. I have a feeling we've read too many conspiracy theory posts at this point. Extreme(ly damaged) skins(fans) at this point. Haha I like this hire in that it's not a Carolina guy and it's a guy that's been discussed a lot here about getting more power. I don't know that much about him and hope that those pushing for him are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Thinking Skins said: See, this is where I'd think about giving him a potentially higher grade. Sure there are the guys like Mcs, Pryor, etc, but the fact that he was able to get them on decent deals that didn't hamstring us in the future, and gave us an opportunity to find good players should count for something. Like I said, think about ZB, DJ, even Flowers this year. Then there are guys like Hall, Bibbs, Hentges, M. Foster, Davis, ?AP?, Johnathan Cooper, Vigil, Junior, etc. Plus Id think that the fact that we kept more marginal guys under Bruce should count for something, Think Everett, Paul, and Dunbar. There are a lot more names in this block depending on how you rank them (Reed, Moses, Williams, Thompson, etc). but this is something we weren't doing under coaches before, even back to Gibbs, Spurrier and Marty. From what I've heard-read Bruce had as much to do with their in season FA signings and undrafted FA signings as me and you did. Smith had the draft FA list and Santos had a veteran FA running list of whom he wanted in case of injury. His stamp was trades. That was all him according to some who over the team. And he'd weigh in heavily as for what players we had as to keeping or letting go. Apparently that's where he and Jay butted heads on players including D. Jax and Crowder. What's a bit more murky where I am not as confident as to this being true because no one said this concretely but some have hinted at is which is that it was Bruce with the philosophy of its better to get multiple cheaper players than 1-2 really good ones in FA. McClain-McGee > Calais Campbell. Pryor + Quick > D. Jax, etc. I don't think having a GM who is considered a douche by many and untrustworthy by agents is an asset for any team even if he were good at their job. But Bruce to me wasn't good at his job either. I was a loud critic of Vinny back in the day, too. Now that I have some distance to both GMs, I'd vote for Bruce to being worse than Vinny. They both had different faults but IMO Bruce's faults created more damage to the franchise. Dan is going to have to work much harder to offset the Bruce regime than he did the Vinny one. Naturally, Dan is the most responsible in both regimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Wait, is this the first time someone's been legitimately promoted from within the organization??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Kyle Smith will have around $90 millions to play with as well. Does Bruce gets kudos for that? lol Can't wait for the free-agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said: Wait, is this the first time someone's been legitimately promoted from within the organization??? Poor Doug Williams, already forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 42 minutes ago, NickyJ said: Poor Doug Williams, already forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: Wait, is this the first time someone's been legitimately promoted from within the organization??? No. And Kyke smith started as a ln area scout, the. Was moved to director of college scouting, etc. I think this is his 3rd or 4th promotion since he’s been here. On the coaching staff side, there are a bunch of examples, McVay being one of the most obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said: No. And Kyke smith started as a ln area scout, the. Was moved to director of college scouting, etc. I think this is his 3rd or 4th promotion since he’s been here. On the coaching staff side, there are a bunch of examples, McVay being one of the most obvious. I assumed that the poster meant since RR came in and the House cleaning. Williams was demoted, so Smith (and now Gribble) do seem to be the sole holdovers from the Allen gang who actually were promoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, bowhunter said: I assumed that the poster meant since RR came in and the House cleaning. Williams was demoted, so Smith (and now Gribble) do seem to be the sole holdovers from the Allen gang who actually were promoted I don’t think that’s what he meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: No. And Kyke smith started as a ln area scout, the. Was moved to director of college scouting, etc. I think this is his 3rd or 4th promotion since he’s been here. On the coaching staff side, there are a bunch of examples, McVay being one of the most obvious. Should've clarified. I meant on the executive side. But you're right, he was a regional scout here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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