Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Nah, I side with the team in there's no glory in losing and despise tanking.  Look at what we got with Griffin. Look at what's happening with Young.  Thats two years folks were begging us to lose as many games as possible specificly for someone, was it worth it?

Draft position has more value than wins that don't amount to making the playoffs.  Just because we have in the past and may have recently squandered our draft position with the wrong selection doesn't mean the value of selecting higher isn't there.  For example, there is a world of difference in what you can obtain via trade for the 2nd pick in the draft vs. say, the 17th pick in the draft.  Just because we whiff on a pick doesn't mean that the pick itself wasn't valuable, it just means we used the pick poorly.

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Draft position has more value than wins that don't amount to making the playoffs.  Just because we have in the past and may have recently squandered our draft position with the wrong selection doesn't mean the value of selecting higher isn't there.  For example, there is a world of difference in what you can obtain via trade for the 2nd pick in the draft vs. say, the 17th pick in the draft.  Just because we whiff on a pick doesn't mean that the pick itself wasn't valuable, it just means we used the pick poorly.

 

We fundamentally disagree here.  I believe winning and doing our best to win does wonders fixing a losing culture and really figuring out or strengths and weaknesses. 

 

For example, I keep seeing how we don't have anybody left on offense for Taylor to throw, but it only looks like that because he's missing open receivers.

 

  How do we know what we have if we don't try to make the most of it?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

For example, I keep seeing how we don't have anybody left on offense for Taylor to throw, but it only looks like that because he's missing open receivers.

 

  How do we know what we have if we don't try to make the most of it?

I'm not under the impression that we've ever willfully tanked though.  I'm not even sure that this is even a real thing in the NFL, even though sometimes it seems like it.  When we got the 2nd pick, we just stunk.  Sadly, we were trying to win.

 

No coach is going to purposely set up his team to lose in favor of draft status.  

 

 

[Renegade7]

34 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not under the impression that we've ever willfully tanked though.  I'm not even sure that this is even a real thing in the NFL, even though sometimes it seems like it.  When we got the 2nd pick, we just stunk.  Sadly, we were trying to win.

 

No coach is going to purposely set up his team to lose in favor of draft status.  

 

I agree, which is another reason I don't root for it, I dont need to, if it happens it will happen.  No way was I going to root for us to lose to Dallas for any reason, can't do it.

[Warhead36]

There is no real point arguing about tanking vs winning. Nobody is gonna try to throw games and lose on purpose.

[Bloodytusk]

I don’t think tanking takes place hardly at if at if it takes place at all. For me losing and thinking of the loss as a step toward better draft position is a coping defense against the loss and losing season in general.

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no real point arguing about tanking vs winning. Nobody is gonna try to throw games and lose on purpose.

Actually, it's pretty well acknowledged that the Eagles tanked the final game last season against us just to improve their draft position. Ultimately it's why Doug Pederson got so pissed off and refused to take the heat for doing it and forced his own firing by refusing to be a puppet in the future. Management told Pederson to pull Hurts in the 2nd half to play Sudfeld and make sure they lost that game. 

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no real point arguing about tanking vs winning. Nobody is gonna try to throw games and lose on purpose.

 

But still it comes up every year "oh we can't even tank right", "we need to tank", "we might as well tank".  You are right, its a fan construct that jus annoys the hell out of me when it gets to the point of not wanting the best for the team based on what side to pick.  This maybe exists in the NBA, debatable, but I agree this doesn't happen in the NFL. And Rivera would never do it.

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Actually, it's pretty well acknowledged that the Eagles tanked the final game last season against us just to improve their draft position. Ultimately it's why Doug Pederson got so pissed off and refused to take the heat for doing it and forced his own firing by refusing to be a puppet in the future. Management told Pederson to pull Hurts in the 2nd half to play Sudfeld and make sure they lost that game. 

 

I knew its was muddy, but source on that?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Renegade7

[TD_washingtonredskins]

If there's any debate, it's more of a debate of "what as a fan would you rather see" than "what strategy should your team employ" 

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I knew its was muddy, but source on that?

LOOOOOOOOOL.... asking for sources here is like asking for Dan to voluntarily relinquish ownership.

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

LOOOOOOOOOL.... asking for sources here is like asking for Dan to voluntarily relinquish ownership.

 

No no, people do typically pony up when asked, especially in the tailgate.  Not always, but enough that this is a better place to debate then most places on the Internet (can't think of a better one, honestly)

[Koolblue13]

People love to point out the success all the other lineman are having, while every team we play says they specifically game plan for young and somehow young in only his second year doesn't produce sack numbers. I wonder if there is any bit of correlation there.

[PartyPosse]

26 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

No no, people do typically pony up when asked, especially in the tailgate.  Not always, but enough that this is a better place to debate then most places on the Internet (can't think of a better one, honestly)

This is a massive issue all across where people just say random **** out of their ass and be all like "it's pretty obvious such and such did such and such" or "it's well known this happened" when there is absolutely zero proof. People have a hard time separating what's proven and what's speculated. If there was a single source of proof where the owner or upper management purposely tanked the game I'd love to see it.

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

This is a massive issue all across where people just say random **** out of their ass and be all like "it's pretty obvious such and such did such and such" or "it's well known this happened" when there is absolutely zero proof. People have a hard time separating what's proven and what's speculated. If there was a single source of proof where the owner or upper management purposely tanked the game I'd love to see it.

 

In the Eagles case from last year, im with you, not buying it.

[FrFan]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no real point arguing about tanking vs winning. Nobody is gonna try to throw games and lose on purpose.

Colts didn't tank to get Luck ?

Of course the purpose of the game, competition, is to win games. Tanking is also no guarantee if you can't select the best players.

Edited October 29, 2021 by FrFan

[PartyPosse]

31 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Colts didn't tank to get Luck ?

Of course the purpose of the game, competition, is to win games. Tanking is also no guarantee if you can't select the best players.

No they didn't. That was a bad team that Manning made respectable. The defense was garbage prior as was the run game. They failed miserably trying to find a QB remotely in the same stratosphere as Peyton. It didn't help that their back-up, Painter, didn't see a single snap the year before Peyton went down and only 28 the year before that.

[Warhead36]

57 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Colts didn't tank to get Luck ?

Of course the purpose of the game, competition, is to win games. Tanking is also no guarantee if you can't select the best players.

They didn't intentionally lose games. Their entire team was built around Manning. Once he got hurt, they were screwed. But they were on a bit of a downward trend anyway.

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

But still it comes up every year "oh we can't even tank right", "we need to tank", "we might as well tank".  You are right, its a fan construct that jus annoys the hell out of me when it gets to the point of not wanting the best for the team based on what side to pick.  This maybe exists in the NBA, debatable, but I agree this doesn't happen in the NFL. And Rivera would never do it.

 

I knew its was muddy, but source on that?

There is no confirmed admission of this or source but the Eagles owner pretty much admitted it with this quote: "He really doesn't deserve to be fired but we have to move in a different direction." 

If you live in the Philly area or follow the Eagles at all, which I'm forced to do, you know that scumbag Howie Roseman forced Doug Pederson to play Sudfeld in the 2nd half of that game so they would not win. Hurts was actually playing well. The Eagles didnt tank that entire season but they damn sure tanked that last game. Pederson pretty much forced his own firing over it based on the way they set him up. He was embarrassed by it and Roseman let him hang alone causing him national criticism.  You won't find a source on the Eagles tanking that game with an outright admission but they did for sure. It also screwed the NYG who will be out to get the Eagles this year for sure. 

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

In the Eagles case from last year, im with you, not buying it.

It's the single reason why Doug Pederson is no longer the head coach of the Eagles. He's a good man and solid coach who was told to pull Hurts at the half by Roseman. There is no logical reason in the world why you'd pull Hurts in that game just to let Sudfeld play. Tanking for picks happens and the Eagles absolutely tanked that game and it was very obvious. If they were playing to win they don't pull Hurts after he'd already scored 2 TD's and was their entire offense in the game.

[Franklin60]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

There is no confirmed admission of this or source but the Eagles owner pretty much admitted it with this quote: "He really doesn't deserve to be fired but we have to move in a different direction." 

If you live in the Philly area or follow the Eagles at all, which I'm forced to do, you know that scumbag Howie Roseman forced Doug Pederson to play Sudfeld in the 2nd half of that game so they would not win. Hurts was actually playing well. The Eagles didnt tank that entire season but they damn sure tanked that last game. Pederson pretty much forced his own firing over it based on the way they set him up. He was embarrassed by it and Roseman let him hang alone causing him national criticism.  You won't find a source on the Eagles tanking that game with an outright admission but they did for sure. It also screwed the NYG who will be out to get the Eagles this year for sure. 

It's probably not worth it to interject into this discussion but I'll say this. I'm an Eagles fan and longtime season ticket holder who has lived in the Philadelphia area for over sixty years. There's almost nothing about this assertion that comes close to what I perceive to be the truth.

 

"Hurts was actually playing well" -- Are you serious? He was 7 of 20 for 72 yards and a pick. He was having a dreadful night.

[Darrell Green Fan]

16 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We fundamentally disagree here.  I believe winning and doing our best to win does wonders fixing a losing culture and really figuring out or strengths and weaknesses.

 

That's what I heard last season.  Losing breed losing and winning breeds winning was the argument for winning the division.  Personally I don't think there is a carry over, you need sustained winning to develop a winning culture. And it surely didn't carry over for your Washington Football Team.

 

So I'm rooting for a loss.  All the stuff I'm reading about Dan and now Tanya makes it impossible for me to root for them to have success.  The season's over, screw 'em. 

[kingdaddy]

8 hours ago, Franklin60 said:

It's probably not worth it to interject into this discussion but I'll say this. I'm an Eagles fan and longtime season ticket holder who has lived in the Philadelphia area for over sixty years. There's almost nothing about this assertion that comes close to what I perceive to be the truth.

 

"Hurts was actually playing well" -- Are you serious? He was 7 of 20 for 72 yards and a pick. He was having a dreadful night.

We'll disagree then, no problem. Hurts may have not had great passing numbers but he was running the ball well and scored 2 TD's. The score at the half was 17-14 WFT and the Eagles decided to bench Hurts for a guy who hadn't played all season. Made no sense then and still doesn't. 

[Going Commando]

Tanking happens in the NFL.  GMs sell off or cut vets that won't be part of the long term plans.  Coaches start playing young players over vets for the same reason, they start experimenting with schemes and situational calls in low pressure moments.  Players who would gut through injuries if the team was in the hunt shut it down instead and get surgeries or start therapies.  All of these moves are made knowing they will negatively effect short term competitiveness but hopefully improve it long term, and getting a higher draft pick is a desired function of these decisions.  IMO it's not a big deal and all of it makes sense when your season is clearly over.  But we're not at that point in our season yet.

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

That's what I heard last season.  Losing breed losing and winning breeds winning was the argument for winning the division.  Personally I don't think there is a carry over, you need sustained winning to develop a winning culture. And it surely didn't carry over for your Washington Football Team.

 

So I'm rooting for a loss.  All the stuff I'm reading about Dan and now Tanya makes it impossible for me to root for them to have success.  The season's over, screw 'em. 

 

Cultures don't change overnight, and losing won't get rid of Snyder anymore then it did the Bengals owner.  We can root for Snyders removal without rooting against our team on the field.

[Darrell Green Fan]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Cultures don't change overnight, and losing won't get rid of Snyder anymore then it did the Bengals owner.  We can root for Snyders removal without rooting against our team on the field.

 

Oh I know losing won't rid of of the Snyders.  And I'm certainly not going to tell you are wrong for rooting for your team. Me? The season is gone so I may as well root for something that will make these evil people unhappy.  My only consolation after yet another bad loss it this hurt Daniel Snyder more than it hurts me.  

 

I know that's petty but screw it, this is how I feel.