Next Coach?

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 Yea, I hope that is the scenario.

 

 That would be something; imagine Snyder looking to bring in a new HC but no one applies or they turn him down; it would be the biggest cake in the face ever! I doubt it would ever happen, but I can dream...

Rex Ryan already said he wants the job .

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Russell talking about this on the radio a little while ago (also add him to the big pile among local media who says he doesn't hear great things about Haskins from some in that building) saying Dan needs a big splash and hiring someone like Todd Bowles won't move the needle for an organization that's bleeding fans.   I mention Haskins because he thinks it could be a key dynamic, getting someone who they think can help prop him up so he mentioned Meyer.

 

Thinking about that some.  Zorn was hired in theory in part to prop up Campbell.  Jay to in theory transform RG3 to a pocket passer.  If that's the operative point for Dan than that would narrow the list of candidates down some.  If Haskins doesn't end up finishing by showing off some flashes then I wonder if that kills O'Connell.  I used to think O'Connell would be a hot candidate here (and some still think he is) but am starting to doubt that more and more as time marches on.  Also if they are looking for a splash that won't do it.

If Dan ties his coaching search to Haskins; odds are strong in 2-3 years he will be looking for a new coach and qb.

 

I would let the new coach decide on whether to proceed with Haskins or get a new qb.  Dan will be limiting his chances, if he does.

[88Comrade2000]

16 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

Great comments here.

 

I agree that Dan has to reinvent himself. His old moves will not work with the new batch of coaches.

 

My bet is he goes for well-respected Coach who is known for being a hard-ass and is also a GM-type. Marty will never return, Marvin has already been here.

 

That leaves us with....

 

BILL COWHER

 

Boom.

Marty has Alzheimer’s.

[88Comrade2000]

My gut says Dan just lets Bruce do the hiring.

 

If Bruce was being canned, we would heard murmurs of that. We aren’t hearing that.

 

Dan believes Bruce’s “we are close” spin and lets Bruce hire the new coach.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Garret might be available.

[88Comrade2000]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Garret might be available.

He is available. His contract expires after Dallas’s last game.

 

No owner should want him. Let him go to the Giants , if they make a change.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Rex Ryan already said he wants the job .

 

Yeah that's why it wouldn't surprise me if he's the goods at the end.  Also he's saying it right now in the context of Bruce already being there.  It has a you have me at hello feel to it.

 

Wonder though how desperate Dan feels at the end of the season, I doubt Rex gives him a buzz-boost with season ticket sales.  But he at least has a little personality so I think it would give a little more juice than Bowles or Marvin Lewis. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think the difference is the length of the contract is a large part of the appeal of the Gruden contract.  You got both the outrageous yearly figure and crazy length.   According to some Dan hates dead money for coaches hence Jay had him at hello in part because he was ok with Haz back then.  Now maybe that attribute is saddled with Dan but its a Bruce thing in reality?  I don't know.  My point is a 10 year contract might be tough for Dan to swallow because in his mind he'd be stuck with the coach for that long and maybe he doesn't envision eating lets say 40 million if he cuts the coach loose within 6 years.

Its interesting because Dan hasn’t fires anywhere near the number of coaches people think he has.  He fired Norv, Marty, Zorn and Shanny.  And now Jay. He was willing to pay (I think) 3 or 4 years of Marty which is probably the most relevant comp to paying out dead money.   I think Shanny had 1 year left, and Zorn probably had 2. And Jay had this year and one more. 

 

He didn’t fire Gibbs or Spurrier.  

 

He’s shown in the past he’s willing to eat a coaching dead money to make a change. And in the case of Marty, he paid out most of his contract. 

 

However, would he want to eat $60 million if he thought after 4 years a coach at $10/year wasn’t cutting it?  That would be a hard pill to swallow for anybody.  But I right be a risk he has to take to get a top candidate.  

 

 

Quote

Also I think the coaching has control stuff is more interesting now then years back after listening to some of Shanny's interviews.  Shanny sort of nailed Dan with feint praise so to speak.  He said that Dan mostly didn't interfere with him but he did sometimes interfere with him.  He mentioned a Randy Moss story, McNabb.  And Dan can try to deny he didn't interfere with RG3 but the bowling video on youtube among other things wouldn't help.  So if I am a big time coach, I'd really hammer a provision into the contract that if Dan offers any personnel advice, you can opt out with some type of severance pay.  If so would Dan sign a contract like that?

Yeah, I hear you but Shanahan’s side of the story is the only one we’ve heard, and honestly he isn’t exactly impartial.  Did dan meddle more than other owners generally do? We don’t know. He  certainly seemed to empower Griffin, but at the same time, Shanahan really should have been more of an adult about it and talked to Dan and Griffin before the whole thing spun out of control. 

 

Yes Hell, Kraft meddled when he essentially told Belichick to trade Garapolo because TB14 didn’t want him around anymore.   Ironically, the only owner who doesn’t meddle is Jerry Jones because he comes right out and says he is the President and GM of the Cowboys. 

 

So my point is that Shanahan might have had the opportunity to say no to Dan if he wanted to, and didn’t.  He also went along with the Griffin trade willingly.  He might have preferred Bulger over McNabb, but honestly who cares?

 

What the new coach would want is final roster authority.  And if Dan wants to overrule the coach, then the coach has to have the gonads to say “no.  We’re doing it this way or fire me.” The coach also had to have the soft skills to manage up a bit and at least include Dan in the decision making process.  This is where Marty failed.  

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Its interesting because Dan hasn’t fires anywhere near the number of coaches people think he has.  He fired Norv, Marty, Zorn and Shanny.  And now Jay. He was willing to pay (I think) 3 or 4 years of Marty which is probably the most relevant comp to paying out dead money.   I think Shanny had 1 year left, and Zorn probably had 2. And Jay had this year and one more. 

 

He didn’t fire Gibbs or Spurrier.  

 

He’s shown in the past he’s willing to eat a coaching dead money to make a change. And in the case of Marty, he paid out most of his contract. 

 

However, would he want to eat $60 million if he thought after 4 years a coach at $10/year wasn’t cutting it?  That would be a hard pill to swallow for anybody.  But I right be a risk he has to take to get a top candidate.  

 

 

Maybe.  My point wasn't that Dan has a quick trigger.  But 10 years would be really testing ANY owner's resolve.  So Dan wouldn't just have to be patient but crazy patient.    

 

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Yeah, I hear you but Shanahan’s side of the story is the only one we’ve heard, and honestly he isn’t exactly impartial.  Did dan meddle more than other owners generally do? We don’t know. He  certainly seemed to empower Griffin, but at the same time, Shanahan really should have been more of an adult about it and talked to Dan and Griffin before the whole thing spun out of control. 

 

 

Even if you are correct, I doubt the benefit of the doubt goes to Dan as opposed to Shanny.  Vinny himself exposed that Dan interferes in a recent podcast.  Spurrier popped up with something like a year ago or whatever it was saying Dan was the GM.  I don't think people will see Shanny's take on things as an outlier.

 

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

So my point is that Shanahan might have had the opportunity to say no to Dan if he wanted to, and didn’t.  He also went along with the Griffin trade willingly.  He might have preferred Bulger over McNabb, but honestly who cares?

 

 

Shanny didn't argue the RG3 point.   But said McNabb was Dan's baby.  Dan did interfere with RG3 but that was more after he was drafted.   I think more might care about the idea that Dan interferes than you might think.  It's the lead dance about any article as to the demise of this organization. 

 

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

What the new coach would want is final roster authority.  And if Dan wants to overrule the coach, then the coach has to have the gonads to say “no.  We’re doing it this way or fire me.” The coach also had to have the soft skills to manage up a bit and at least include Dan in the decision making process.  This is where Marty failed.  

 

But if I am a coach why would I even want to mess with it?  If I am Lincoln Riley i am unlikely saying to myself I can have any job but I'll take the Redskins one.  It will be bumpier than elsewhere but I'll show off my gonads by telling off Dan whenever I need to.    In his shoes, why even worry about stress like that if you don't think you'd have to deal with it elsewhere?  Ditto Dan's supposed mercurial high strung personality.   Only reason I guess would be big money.

 

You seem more moved than I am about Dan keeping Bruce and Jay for that long as a sign that he doesn't have a quick trigger.  But the two (Bruce-Jay) have something in common according to most which is they were good at kissing up to Dan and will give in when needed.  I'd presume someone with serious prospects wouldn't want to bother with the hassle. 

 

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, ThePackisback said:

Mike McCarthy.

 

Or Tomlin, at a stupid trade pick, would be my guess. 

[Skinsota]

Guys who I am against us hiring.

Mike McCarthy.   Followed ref into the tunnel at step son's basketball game.  Loser.

Gregg Williams.  Kill the head and the body will follow?   No thank you.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But if I am a coach why would I even want to mess with it? 

It all come down to this:

 

Is Dan willing to give a guy crazy money, years and authority to somebody and are they willing to take that and the Redskins reputation over another job?

 

For example, is 10 years, $100m guaranteed and contractual complete roster control more attractive than 5 years at $40 million and working with Jerry and company in Dallas?

 

If that’s what on the table, it’s REALLY hard to turn down an extra $60m, no matter what Dan’s reputation is.  Even if it turns out to be a spectacular failure, chances are you’re walking away with $100m and another shot somewhere else. 

 

Shrug.  Dan has the ability to make any decision for any candidate VERY difficult if he wants to.

 

I also am betting that he is hearing all of these reports about top candidates not wanting to come here, and I bet it infuriates him, and he would love nothing more than to show that he can still pull the rabbit out of his hat. 

 

You might be roght, his reputation might precede him and maybe so much damage has been done that no too candidate would ever consider the redskins.

 

But dead presidents can really change the equation. And if Dan is willing, I bet he could put together a package to get anybody if he really wanted to.

 

In my ideal world, he actually puts together a ridiculous package, which might even include some ownership stake, for Peyton Manning to become the President, and Peyton runs the GM and HC search.  Because THAT changes the equation overnight. And In that scenario I think just about any HC candidate becomes an option. 

 

But I doubt Dan has even thought about it. 

[drowland]

Yeah, I remember listening to Stephen A and he said Dan would have to do something like Mark Davis and get himself in a relationship he can't divorce from.  Meaning Mark Davis can't afford to buy out Jon Gruden's contract so he's stuck with him through the hard times and hopefully the good.  I don't see Dan doing that though.  

 

If Bruce hires the next coach my guess is will likely be someone like Raheem Morris or maybe Todd Bowles although I think Bowles would be skeptical of Bruce.  If it's Dan doing the hiring it will be Gregg Williams or Rex Ryan or again maybe Bowles.  I don't see Bowles being desperate enough to want the job, however the other 3 would all probably pounce.  And I don't see an accomplished offensive coach taking it and being forced to take on Haskins.  It would be have to be a young unknown like KOC, which I don't think they would want to do.  But who knows, after watching Kyle, McVey and LaFleur all have different degrees of success they might roll the dice.  

[skinfan2k]

its a win win for any coach to come here and chase the money.  If they fail, they get paid and don't get any blame because you are working for Danny Boy.  If you win, you get all the credit and none goes to Danny Boy

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

In my ideal world, he actually puts together a ridiculous package, which might even include some ownership stake, for Peyton Manning to become the President, and Peyton runs the GM and HC search.  Because THAT changes the equation overnight. And In that scenario I think just about any HC candidate becomes an option. 

 

But I doubt Dan has even thought about it. 

 

I'd like that, too and agree Dan has probably never thought about it.  I doubt he likes it either but maybe he would if he thought it would help save him with fans.

 

55 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It all come down to this:

 

Is Dan willing to give a guy crazy money, years and authority to somebody and are they willing to take that and the Redskins reputation over another job?

 

For example, is 10 years, $100m guaranteed and contractual complete roster control more attractive than 5 years at $40 million and working with Jerry and company in Dallas?

 

 

I flat out say something crazy like that would be his only chance.  Got some doubts he'd be willing to do it.  It's one thing offering 1 million or more over 5 years but like you said an extra 40 million?  While I agree Dan should feel this level desperate but I wonder if "Mr Close" believes he needs it.  I got no idea.  Am just guessing that there is still some hungover we are close sentiment in that building propagated by Bruce.  

 

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

its a win win for any coach to come here and chase the money.  If they fail, they get paid and don't get any blame because you are working for Danny Boy.  If you win, you get all the credit and none goes to Danny Boy

Except what head coach has left here with a better reputation? This organization's stink permeates it's victims, making them unwanted around the league.

If I'm a hot shot coordinator, I am not coming here. I'll wait a year.

 

Not that it's going to matter. This team won't win with any coach. Not as long ad Snyder is in charge. The league would have to oust him.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd like that, too and agree Dan has probably never thought about it.  I doubt he likes it either but maybe he would if he thought it would help save him with fans.

Dan needs an ExtremeSkins account.  He could learn a lot.  

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I flat out say something crazy like that would be his only chance.  Got some doubts he'd be willing to do it.  It's one thing offering 1 million or more over 5 years but like you said an extra 40 million?  While I agree Dan should feel this level desperate but I wonder if "Mr Close" believes he needs it.  I got no idea.  Am just guessing that there is still some hungover we are close sentiment in that building propagated by Bruce.  

 

The real question is not how close they are but how much Dan feels he is losing his clientele, how much money he is losing, and how big a jolt he believes he needs. 

 

I understand the “we’re close” thing Bruce is pushing but this decision almost isn’t even a football decision.  It’s a financial one.  He HAS to do something bold to at least garner interest in a waning fan base.  And almost regardless of how close he feels the team is, he has to know, just based on attendance and viewership, that his clients aren’t buying what his organization is selling. 

 

One other thing: everything we’ve ever heard about Dan is he is impatient and prone to outbursts.  He has been SUPER patient with Bruce and the team hasn’t performed.  At some point his patience is going to wear thin and he’s going to do something rash.  I know Bruce is peddling patience but 2015 is a long time ago now and the Skins haven’t even hit 9 wins since then.  At some point, Dan just isn’t going to be able to hold his water anymore and is going to blow a gasket. 

 

Which is is why I believe he’s going to go “all in” to change the narrative.  

 

He might not be willing to do that.  He might not be able to do it, or the candidates might still pass and work for Jerry.  

 

But desperate times call for desperate measures.  And I think Dan knows these are desperate times.  If he doesn’t, then really there is no hope. 

 

And God Damn, if he does offer the $100 for 10 and roster control and is still turned down?  Yowza, would that be a wake up call. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He has been SUPER patient with Bruce and the team hasn’t performed.  At some point his patience is going to wear thin and he’s going to do something rash.

This is the part that kills me. The two people he's had the longest leash with are the most incompetent: Bruce Allen and Vinny Cerrato. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

This is the part that kills me. The two people he's had the longest leash with are the most incompetent: Bruce Allen and Vinny Cerrato. 

 

 

yeah, it’s mind blowing.

[RWJ]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 He has been SUPER patient with Bruce and the team hasn’t performed.  At some point his patience is going to wear thin and he’s going to do something rash.  

Not being sarcastic but "say when". 

[VaK9Trainer]

9 hours ago, El Mexican said:

Great comments here.

 

I agree that Dan has to reinvent himself. His old moves will not work with the new batch of coaches.

 

My bet is he goes for well-respected Coach who is known for being a hard-ass and is also a GM-type. Marty will never return, Marvin has already been here.

 

That leaves us with....

 

BILL COWHER

 

Boom.

 

 

As far fetched as that may sound, let's think about that for a second (assuming that Cowher would have any interest).  It's pretty well known that Dan is interested in Mike Tomlin. Why go after the student when you can get the teacher?  Cowher would definitely be a splash and he's most definitely a hard ass coach. 

 

 

 

[skins island connection]

At this point I'd be perfectly fine with Mike Shanahan coming back, but I know that would never ever happen.

He would actually be coming back in an almost exact situation as 2013; chaos, very questionable QB, things falling apart at the seams, and FO troubles.

 

Another person who had walked into a familiar **** storm was Jimmy Johnson; I can see the look on Dan's face with someone mentioning him!

As much as I despised him { because of the whole Cowboys thing } he did a good job of assembling a good all-around squad. But he's too far up there in age, I think.

 

But that's the approach that whoever comes in will need to have. Realize it will take a few years to get things together, take the bumps in the road, but eventually builds a good team with some dynamic players and most importantly, discipline.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, RWJ said:

Not being sarcastic but "say when". 

With an unpredictable and rash person it could be any time from today to 2067.  

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I understand the “we’re close” thing Bruce is pushing but this decision almost isn’t even a football decision.  It’s a financial one.  He HAS to do something bold to at least garner interest in a waning fan base.  And almost regardless of how close he feels the team is, he has to know, just based on attendance and viewership, that his clients aren’t buying what his organization is selling. 

 

 

Just listening to all the narratives, my fear as to Dan is the dude's bromance with Bruce runs deep.  They are supposedly almost inseparable.    Russell's theory for example (and often his connections in that FO have been good of late) is Dan realizes that when he cut the cord with Vinny they weren't pals after that even though they were super close.  Is he willing to lose his best bud twice?  I am not even joking even thought the theory seems comical but I do think its in the soup and part of the reason why Dan was willing to take slings and arrows at the beginning of this year even though the fan's distaste was clear. 

 

The report today from Garafalo is an encouraging sign.  But I need to see Dan cut the chord before I buy in. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not a McCarthy guy, slammed for shoddy clock work, lack of imagination and lack of work ethic

 

 

 

Of course, some would say that Allen isn’t the problem but simply a symptom of an issue that starts with Snyder, and that nothing will change until he sells the team. (The mere act of selling the team would likely sell out the stadium for years to come.)

It was believed that Allen would remain in place until he finagles a new stadium for the franchise. But with the team being such a perennial poor performer, getting a new stadium becomes an even tougher task.

Still, we’ll believe that Allen is truly in trouble when we see him do the walk of shame with a cardboard box full of his personal belongings. Snyder can’t make that move until he knows he’ll have someone better to take Allen’s place, and the question is whether any candidate who would constitute an upgrade would touch that job with a 10-foot pole and/or for anything less than $10 million per year.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/30/bruce-allen-could-be-on-the-outs-in-d-c-finally/