Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Agreed with others. Perine is a sunk cost at this point. He doesn't really play special teams, and as the 4th RB on the roster...how you can justify that to someone who doesn't play special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 hours ago, RandyHolt said: Penn limping around and not playing last week, plus our crack med team and OL injury history, has me skeptical. You seem in the know - favor - try and expand on Geron being nabbed a little bit, as it seems conversations always end with "he will never make it" and no one has conclusive rebuttal since we are not in the minds of 30 GMs. My asking is because it seems we have these discussions every year with someone, and yet they DO make it and most everyone was wrong. So, what WOULD allow him to make it to the practice squad. If he were a 4th rounder, or 5th? Predraft rating of < 5.5, vs his 5.61? 2 major injuries, vs 1; projection to be at best a backup? Obviously a major injury in less than 1 full game played, struggles in his 2nd straight camp, failure to reach projected potential, are all not enough to stifle interest/upside. Sure league wide demand for tackles is in play here, but lets assume demand is static since this is more focused on players attributes. And few teams need a young tackle more than us. Thanks in advance - if it's too complicated to answer so be it but then you get my point about how conversations are stifled. seventh round pick Austin Reiter didn't make it. UDFA Kyle Kalis didn't make it. Why should we assume a third round draft pick would make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, carex said: seventh round pick Austin Reiter didn't make it. UDFA Kyle Kalis didn't make it. Why should we assume a third round draft pick would make it Because he is coming off a major injury and struggled before and after. Nothing to scoff at when he is expected to protect the blindside. Maybe I will peruse the waiver wire on cut day and see if there are no rookie/first year 3rd rounders league wide cut and unclaimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: Agreed with others. Perine is a sunk cost at this point. He doesn't really play special teams, and as the 4th RB on the roster...how you can justify that to someone who doesn't play special teams. For this reason, I would take Shaun Wilson over Perine, in a flash...if Wilson gets healthy. 2 hours ago, mistertim said: One of the things that worried me a bit about Perine when we drafted him was how HUGE some of the holes were he was able to run through. If you watch that record setting day above, a ton of his yards came on plays where his OL gave him a hole he could have driven a truck through. I was still hopeful because I liked his size and seeming physicality. But after 2 seasons of watching him I can truly say I've never seen a 240 lb RB go down with so little contact. I don't know if he just doesn't have the balance or what...but he rarely breaks tackles which is wild for a guy with his size and supposed strength. He also has mediocre to poor vision and his lateral agility is sorely lacking. He's basically a guy who will give you yards if you give him a big ass north/south hole to run straight down. Otherwise he's a guy who consistently takes a few steps, misses a small but available hole, runs into a couple guys, and almost immediately goes down. So in the NFL, where you don't often get those kinds of huge north/south holes and have to rely on your vision/cutting/etc....well, he'll be lucky if he's even a JAG. Ha, remember people Oohing and Awwing over his off the field feats ? What did he do, bench press a pickup truck or something like that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said: For this reason, I would take Shaun Wilson over Perine, in a flash...if Wilson gets healthy. He works. Marshall works. Just using 3 RB's works. If Perine makes it though, I think he gets cut as soon as Guice is confidently healthy. Also, we already have RB #4 squirreled away for the future. Bryce Love is on PUP/IR. We don't need to waste a roster spot on possible talent, when we already have that in Love...but without using a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: He works. Marshall works. In the brief time I saw him, I think Wilson looked better returning kicks than Marshall. Whenever I think of Marshall returning kicks, I think of the time he IR'd himself for the year, just trying to field a kick, with zero contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, RandyHolt said: Because he is coming off a major injury and struggled before and after. Nothing to scoff at when he is expected to protect the blindside. Maybe I will peruse the waiver wire on cut day and see if there are no rookie/first year 3rd rounders league wide cut and unclaimed. swing tackle in college, someone picking him up could ask him to take the right side first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Ha, remember people Oohing and Awwing over his off the field feats ? What did he do, bench press a pickup truck or something like that ? yeah I think it was something like that. I'll admit I've been fooled before by football players doing ridiculous athletic things that have no actual bearing on their ability to play football but now I actually see it as more of a warning sign than anything else. Like a baseball player who can toss a ball up and consistently hit it into the same spot in the upper decks over and over. Impressive and cool but can he, you know...actually hit a pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 41 minutes ago, carex said: swing tackle in college, someone picking him up could ask him to take the right side first Yep. And as thin as we are at tackle of course he is an unlikely cut but I am using him as a example of, how much can injuries, still raw/minimal improvement over first year, poor play influence etc the ability to successfully stash/squash interest. What are the historical numbers or guidelines; e.g. rookie 3rd rounders get cut x% of the time, and x% do make it to the practice squad. I am no keyboard GM but folks talk about Haskins sitting out the entire year without a 2nd thought. I think a faux IR shh stash may be beneficial to other players, as well. Who are our rawest players? Haskins, Geron, Martin? and ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, mistertim said: yeah I think it was something like that. I'll admit I've been fooled before by football players doing ridiculous athletic things that have no actual bearing on their ability to play football but now I actually see it as more of a warning sign than anything else. Like a baseball player who can toss a ball up and consistently hit it into the same spot in the upper decks over and over. Impressive and cool but can he, you know...actually hit a pitch? Makes me think of this guy as the perfect example - Trick Shot QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 22 hours ago, RandyHolt said: It could be worse.... the surface of the sun is reserved for coaches immediately after calling 2 swinging gates in a row. In my best 'Pedantic Nerd' voice, (which is probably my own voice because I'm obviously a pedantic nerd). Um, I think you'll find that the Earth's inner core is the same temperature as the surface of the Sun. I really hate myself sometimes, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, London Kev said: In my best 'Pedantic Nerd' voice, (which is probably my own voice because I'm obviously a pedantic nerd). Um, I think you'll find that the Earth's inner core is the same temperature as the surface of the Sun. I really hate myself sometimes, lol. LOL. You'll know that i almost went back to edit my post to say the suns core, but i figured the sun's surface was plenty hot enough for Jim 'Swinging Gate or Bust' Zorn. I am still amazed he ran the same play after the false start or delay of game, whatever it was. I have never seen a telegraphed clear and obvious fake attempted to be run to that level. It was almost as bad as the play call itself. Replays of that debacle should include the play before where we showed the Giants the play we were going to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxJoe Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 So this morning’ Gruden presser said he’ll play Guice for a few carries. Frankly, what value are a few carries? Maybe a whole half. If it’s just a few carries, I’d just sit him until the first game. https://mobile.twitter.com/CraigHoffman/status/1163869733067853825 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, JaxJoe said: So this morning’ Gruden presser said he’ll play Guice for a few carries. Frankly, what value are a few carries? Maybe a whole half. If it’s just a few carries, I’d just sit him until the first game. https://mobile.twitter.com/CraigHoffman/status/1163869733067853825 My guess is it could be more psychological than physical. Often there's a psychological hurdle to cross, when recovering from an injury like that, because of a subconscious timidity about taking hard hits. If he takes a few carries, exerts himself fully, and takes some hard hits, and walks away from that unscathed, it could give him the inner confidence he needs to face a regular season game with full steam. If anyone questions the validity of this, Chris Thompson went through a similar psychological hurdle previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToaCommander Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Related to our running game, was watching the 9ers yesterday and remembering how our running was effective under Shanny. Our running game has been near putrid under Gruden system really. We used to insert 3rd string guys and would run rampant in the zone blocking, now its like 2yds, 2yds, -3yds and punt. AP certainly gave our running some life last year but other than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, SamoaSkinz said: Related to our running game, was watching the 9ers yesterday and remembering how our running was effective under Shanny. Our running game has been near putrid under Gruden system really. We used to insert 3rd string guys and would run rampant in the zone blocking, now its like 2yds, 2yds, -3yds and punt. AP certainly gave our running some life last year but other than that... Well, look what we had to work with... Before AP bolstered our run game, it was Rob Kelley, and it was Samaje Perine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToaCommander Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Well, look what we had to work with... Before AP bolstered our run game, it was Rob Kelley, and it was Samaje Perine. Yeah, but I can also see a stark difference in the blocking, watching the 9ers linemen move in the zone blocking assignments and Monstert gaining chunks of yards and how we used to execute that here and those Morris/Helu/Royster runs where timely blocking created big running lanes. Now, to me its more the ability of our RBs to beat tacklers than good blocking that we gain chunk yards like those AP's TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 11 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Well, look what we had to work with... Before AP bolstered our run game, it was Rob Kelley, and it was Samaje Perine. In their defense (no pun intended), running backs are "often a product of situation more than player ability" and thus meh backs are very dependent on the system being used. Elite backs aside of course. I read that on the internets, so it must be true. Ryan Torrain. Alfred Morris. Dominated in one system. Any back in Pitt or KC dominate, right? The thing is with us, I still don't even know what system we run. I think we run them all and thus never employ one enough to dominate in one discipline. Trent was a mobile zone guy, not a road grader. What is Penn? I will go power. What about the Flower... Flower power? I will guess he is a hydroponic hybrid. I have to think Geron is cut from the zone mobile mold. Martin seems cut from the power mode. Our mismash OL is likely to continue, as our backs muck their way through. Maybe we finally evolve to Jay's preferred power this year. If our run blocking was decent the great AP would have dominated much more than he did. He put lipstick on a pig. Still, taking away his 90 TD he only had a 3.8 yard average on his other 250 carries. Knowing that I hope folks won't expect a Perine type to average 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 On 8/19/2019 at 4:21 PM, carex said: seventh round pick Austin Reiter didn't make it. UDFA Kyle Kalis didn't make it. Why should we assume a third round draft pick would make it FWIW, Austin Reiter is setting up to be the starting center on a Super Bowl contender now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 19 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: My guess is it could be more psychological than physical. Often there's a psychological hurdle to cross, when recovering from an injury like that, because of a subconscious timidity about taking hard hits. If he takes a few carries, exerts himself fully, and takes some hard hits, and walks away from that unscathed, it could give him the inner confidence he needs to face a regular season game with full steam. If anyone questions the validity of this, Chris Thompson went through a similar psychological hurdle previously. Agreed, if Guice comes out and flashes like he did against the Pat's last year, we'll be wanting to take him out quick fast to protect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSurrender Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 20 hours ago, JaxJoe said: So this morning’ Gruden presser said he’ll play Guice for a few carries. Frankly, what value are a few carries? Maybe a whole half. If it’s just a few carries, I’d just sit him until the first game. https://mobile.twitter.com/CraigHoffman/status/1163869733067853825 I agree, he needs to take some NFL hits. Not letting this happen is begging for fumbles in the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxJoe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just a reminder that 4pm August 31 is the cut-down date to 53 players. That’s only 2 days after the final preseason game against Baltimore. August 22: Preseason Game 3 at Atlanta Falcons, 7:30pm. August 29: Preseason Game 4 vs. Baltimore Ravens, 7:30pm. August 31: Prior to 4 p.m. (ET), clubs must reduce rosters to a maximum of 53 players. September 1: Claiming period for players placed on waivers at the final roster reduction will expire at 12 p.m. (ET). September 1: Clubs may establish a practice squad of 10 players. September 5: NFL regular season begins. September 8: Game 1 at Philadelphia Eagles, 1:00pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Game 3 is just about upon us... This is like the 'Super Bowl of the Preseason'. Let's enjoy it, since we probably won't see a real Super Bowl this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 2:09 PM, JaxJoe said: So this morning’ Gruden presser said he’ll play Guice for a few carries. Frankly, what value are a few carries? Maybe a whole half. If it’s just a few carries, I’d just sit him until the first game. https://mobile.twitter.com/CraigHoffman/status/1163869733067853825 Let him feel a hit again before it matters. 11 hours ago, JaxJoe said: September 1: Claiming period for players placed on waivers at the final roster reduction will expire at 12 p.m. (ET). Kiko Alonso & Malik Jefferson. We won’t be able to cover anyone, but at least we’ll be fast. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see Kiko end up in DC, I believe they’ve tried to send us a pick, Kiko, & Stills in a Williams deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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