Welcome to the Redskins Terry Mclaurin WR Ohio State

[Mrshadow008]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

This is a fair criticism, I meant once the FA period began and we didn’t check in with him or his agent but I was so

emphatic that I can’t really walk it back now lol. I think it’s 100% standard operating procedure when the gun fires and the FA race begins to check back in with your guys—not assume a conversation from a month and a half ago and a presser that they may or may not have seen will do the job of preserving your relationships for you—that’s what communicating is for.  
 

My point is this—the way we went about re-signing him is obviously not standard. We didn’t just match an offer once his agent brought it back to us, which would be normal—we realized he was about to sign with Buffalo after it was reported, panicked that they hadn’t brought the offer back to us, swooped in and got him back by offering the same and making it clear we did in fact still want him. Which had to be news to him on some level or he wouldn’t have been merely a signature away from being a Buffalo Bill. It’s not supposed to work like that, so at some level we communicated poorly with him and his agent, right?

 

I think you’re right that I made it seem too black and white with my language—maybe it’s not a systemic failure but an honest miscommunication error on our FO’s part. But given how it played out, something went wrong that can’t happen again. We almost lost an impact player on a reasonable contract to another team purely due to some type of misunderstanding. 

They definitely probably coulda communicated better but we also dont know what JD's agent told him. Its also possible JDs agent misunderstood. And yes it looked like they panicked after they found out it was reported because again his agent never gave them the offer to match. JD was also likely told by his agent that we werent interested due to said miscommunication with his agent. The question is was it because the team communicated it poorly or because the agent misunderstood? The thing is none of us really know that. And i take any comments made by team or agent after the fact with a grain of salt because both are trying to cover their own butts

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I agree.  If the team did that, then the agent would counter with the actual offer sheet, and it would get ugly for the team IF the guaranteed money was not in line with what we expect.

 

 

 

 

 

Can we please take the Dan is not liquid debate to the "Dan is dirt poor" thread and not spend TOO much time on it here?  

 

I mean, I think everybody gets your point: Dan is driving the schedule because he has something to gain by deferring making the guaranteed escrow payment as long as possible.  And I also get that could be the crux of why the delay in schedule.  (I don't believe it yet, but I would believe it if it was ever reported (and not insinuated or implied or speculated about).  

 

But I think for this thread, we are where we are in the schedule, and we should move the Dan stuff to either of the 2 Dan related threads. 

 

Just my $.02 so we don't have exactly the same discussion in 3 threads.  Just 2. 

 

I do think its kinda hard to avoid when people constantly bash Ron for the situation we are in with Terry. Not talking about you specifically you typically try not to actively harp on bashing Ron even though I know you think its Ron instead of Dan 

[skinsfan93]

38 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

SO if Dan is the one that made them wait which Im guessing is the case that hardly makes Ron and the Martys incompetent

Yes, we have talked at nauseam that Dan is having cash flow issues and signing Terry and any other high priced free agent is not possible. The point of the JD situation is that was a small contract and Ron and company dropped the ball handling it. I’m sure Dan has a say in any contract but we’re not talking about a huge contract or guarantee (3.5 mil). 
 

 

[Mrshadow008]

8 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Yes, we have talked at nauseam that Dan is having cash flow issues and signing Terry and any other high priced free agent is not possible. The point of the JD situation is that was a small contract and Ron and company dropped the ball handling it. I’m sure Dan has a say in any contract but we’re not talking about a huge contract or guarantee (3.5 mil). 
 

 

Like I said above and SIP has also pointed out  the plan all along was for those guys test the market and then match If they could. That was the plan. What we don’t know was if it was really poorly communicated or if it was totally misunderstood by the agent or maybe even a little bit of both. Both parties have made comments after the fact kinda pointing fingers at the other. One or even both are trying to cover their butts and not look bad. The fact of the matter is none of us know the full truth. What we do know is all three of the publicly mentioned names at the combine Sims, McCain, and Jd are all on the roster. Out of those 3 only 1 had a bunch of drama surrounding it 

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, Captain James said:

There's a huge whole what? Way to leave us hangin...

hole

[Voice_of_Reason]

Getting back to Terry specifically, and why the team and the agent might be at odds.  

 

It almost has to be on guaranteed money, length or signing bonus.  The published AAV is easily manipulated, I can't imagine that's the sticking point.  

 

Anyway, I went through all (and let me know if I forgot one, but I tried to get all of the big ones) WR extensions signed this year, and I listed out the particulars:

 

 

This is sorted in order of "full"  AAV.  Though, you can see, it's massively misleading.  However, if you want to go off of "full" AAV, you can also see there is a pretty big gap between Diggs and DJ Moore.

 

A couple of other things to note: 

- Adams, Kupp, Diggs and Godwwin all have signing bonuses withing $2M of each other, from $18.75M to $21.5M.  If you take DIggs out, Kup, Moore and Goodwin and within $1.25M of each other.

 

- Guaranteed at signing is all over the map.  Adams number actually seems really low, but his contract makes up for it by guaranteeing future years after March of 2023.  There are 3 contracts which fit around $40M guaranteed at signing (Brown, Moore and Godwin.)  

 

- The three contracts that are actually pretty similar in terms of numbers are Brown, Moore and Godwin.  They are about the same in signing bonus, "adjusted AAV", and guaranteed at signing.  Brown got more Fully Guaranteed money.  But his "adjusted AAV" is actually lower than the other two.  

 

- For the "Fully Guaranteed" amounts, I think basically all of these amounts become fully guaranteed somewhere around the first week of the 2023 league year.  So, basically, they're all fully guaranteed unless these players are cut after one season. I didn't put dead cap numbers on here, but that's almost impossible from a cap perspective, so I think you can trust the Fully Guaranteed number. 

 

Now, let's look at 2021 production for the same players and add Terry:

 

I'll hear you out that Terry had to play with the worst QB situation of this group except for DJ Moore.  I think that's an easy argument to make, and it's one that I'm sure Terry and his folks are making.  In addition to he's had to play with Keenum, McCoy, One Legged Smith, Allen, Haskins (RIP) and the guy who's name I can't remember and won't look up who started the COVID game.  

 

Here's where I think we're at, and this is speculation:

 

- Terry's team is saying, "we want the Kupp/Diggs comps with Guaranteed Money" 

- The team is saying, "you're not Kupp or Diggs, you're more in the Brown/Moore/Godwin area.  And especially with what Moore was able to do in Carolina with a worse QB situation.  

 

I personally don't think either of those positions are WRONG.  Terry's side SHOULD want to get $70M fully guaranteed.  

 

But I don't think the team should be forced into that either, because I don't think Terry has shown to be THAT player.  I WOULD give him a bump for the QBs he has had to play with, and how important he is to the team.  But I'm not sure Terry has fully earned a top 4 WR guaranteed contract.  He's great, I love him, I want him signed.  But he's not a top 4 WR in the league, at least not yet, and both sides need to recognize that. 

 

So what I think will happen is they will come to an agreement that is somewhere around the AJ Brown deal in terms of signing bonus, guaranteed money, without the bloated year, but with a higher "adjusted AAV."  He won't get the $70M guaranteed he wants, it will be closer to $57-$60M.  But his AAV will be closer to $20 or $21.  And from a structure perspective, I doubt they put in the "poison pill bloated year" unless Terry's agent needs it for ego/recruiting purposes.  

 

That's where I think we are now.  I'm not sure how much different a position we would have been in if they tried to get this done in April.  There would have been a few less comps. But the ones that matter would still have been there, and I think there would still have been the same disagreement.

 

So, that's my theory of what they are currently talking about right now.  

[Vanguard]

His yards per reception is pretty good.  Especially considering he doesn’t have nearly as many catches as the guys on that list.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I mean, I think everybody gets your point: Dan is driving the schedule because he has something to gain by deferring making the guaranteed escrow payment as long as possible.  And I also get that could be the crux of why the delay in schedule.  (I don't believe it yet, but I would believe it if it was ever reported (and not insinuated or implied or speculated about).  

 

But I think for this thread, we are where we are in the schedule, and we should move the Dan stuff to either of the 2 Dan related threads. 

 

Just my $.02 so we don't have exactly the same discussion in 3 threads.  Just 2. 

 

 

I am not the only one talking about that subject here.  If you are going to say you think its Ron's mistake as you did this morning.  Where you are going to use logic, to pin it on him, logic which I don't agree with.  I'll respond and reexplain the Dan logic.  Simple as that. 

 

So if you or whomever stops taking shots at Ron for this, I'll stop taking shots at Dan.  Simple as that.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I totally agree that it probably couldve been communicated better. But there's this narrative that they are just making it up as they go and were like "oh crap! wait we changed our minds we really do want you here!" at the last second. Theres also this narrative that the front office is totally incompetent or that Ron is incompetent or has too much on his plate. But there are people in that F/O that have been doing this a long time at a very high level. I refuse to believe they got here and just suddenly forgot how to do anything. Secondly yes Ron is technically in charge but I also dont think Ron is as involved on all the F/o decisions as others do. What I mean by this is he might have final say yes but I think he lets others do their jobs and then theyll give him their opinions etc and can then make a decision instead of running around trying to do everything at once

 

There were two players, McKissic and forgotting the other where a beat writer said early in the process (I think it was Keim but over time some podcasts blend together in my mind) that their agent was asking for more than what they thought their market would bear.  And the idea was to let them test to market and let it play out for that reason.    So yeah whether that was a good plan or bad plan, it was a plan nonetheless.   They played it out.  

 

As for Terry, that also was telegraphed in advance that the negotiation would be punted until later. There is some disagreement on the thread as why it was punted until later -- but that too was telegraphed in advance by both beat guys and Ron himself.

 

So clearly they have a methodical approach.

 

Another example of them having a methodical approach was Mayhew flat out saying they will end up with more draft picks than they currently have before the draft -- they pulled that off.

 

We heard to death from Ron how hot they were for a QB, prefer a veteran and are willing to be aggressive to get that guy.  We heard the same from beat reporters.  And then that's exactly what they did.

 

On and on. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

This is a fair criticism, I meant once the FA period began and we didn’t check in with him or his agent but I was so

emphatic that I can’t really walk it back now lol. I think it’s 100% standard operating procedure when the gun fires and the FA race begins to check back in with your guys—not assume a conversation from a month and a half ago and a presser that they may or may not have seen will do the job of preserving your relationships for you—that’s what communicating is for.  
 

My point is this—the way we went about re-signing him is obviously not standard. We didn’t just match an offer once his agent brought it back to us, which would be normal—we realized he was about to sign with Buffalo after it was reported, panicked that they hadn’t brought the offer back to us, swooped in and got him back by offering the same and making it clear we did in fact still want him. Which had to be news to him on some level or he wouldn’t have been merely a signature away from being a Buffalo Bill. It’s not supposed to work like that, so at some level we communicated poorly with him and his agent, right?

 

I think you’re right that I made it seem too black and white with my language—maybe it’s not a systemic failure but an honest miscommunication error on our FO’s part. But given how it played out, something went wrong that can’t happen again. We almost lost an impact player on a reasonable contract to another team purely due to some type of misunderstanding. 

Or his agent did a poor job communicating with JD.  🤷‍♂️ McKissick was offered 12 or 13 days after Martin said the team was letting them test the market and would like the chance to match any offer.   Of course (as far as I know) we don’t know if they communicated this directly to the agent/JD as well.  I’d guess they did.  

 

The fact JD preferred to stay (and re-signed with the team accordingly), and the fact the Buffalo offer was agreed to the day before FA began (just one day after the negotiating period began) suggests he/his agent didn’t give the team time to consider matching.  Which puts (IMO) doubt on the agent.

 

Not sure we can say whether the team’s offer was a panic move.  And if it was, was that due to the agent doing a poor job communicating (to either the team, to JD, or both), or did the agent communicate the offer and the team was slow in responding (until finding out he had accepted the offer)?

Slight tangent, but did JD’s agent prefer he go to Buffalo to play for a contending team (and one with a legit qb)?

 

 

I don’t have a problem with the general practice of letting certain guys test the market… I don’t think it’s a thing only inept franchises do (not that you’re saying this).

 

Bringing this back to Terry, I think there’s some degree of evidence both ways - that the waiting is about Snyder wanting to hold onto the money as long as possible, or that RR/the FO wanted to wait until summer.  

 

Considering 1) the team expressing the desire to surround Wentz with weapons and the desire to keep Terry, 2) that Terry is missing valuable time to build chemistry with Wentz, 3) that they’re missing his leadership/example in OTAs, 4) the distraction waiting brings, and 5) that Terry has essentially become more expensive as time has gone on, it would be a little surprising if RR/the FO were the culprits here.  With that said, if it comes out they were ‘culpable’, it’s far more damning than it would be if Snyder were the reason for delaying… which you’d think is one more item on the “Dan’s fault” side of the scale.

[Mrshadow008]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Or his agent did a poor job communicating with JD.  🤷‍♂️ McKissick was offered 12 or 13 days after Martin said the team was letting them test the market and would like the chance to match any offer.   Of course (as far as I know) we don’t know if they communicated this directly to the agent/JD as well.  I’d guess they did.  

 

The fact JD preferred to stay (and re-signed with the team accordingly), and the fact the Buffalo offer was agreed to the day before FA began (just one day after the negotiating period began) suggests he/his agent didn’t give the team time to consider matching.  Which puts (IMO) doubt on the agent.

 

Not sure we can say whether the team’s offer was a panic move.  And if it was, was that due to the agent doing a poor job communicating (to either the team, to JD, or both), or did the agent communicate the offer and the team was slow in responding (until finding out he had accepted the offer)?

Slight tangent, but did JD’s agent prefer he go to Buffalo to play for a contending team (and one with a legit qb)?

 

 

I don’t have a problem with the general practice of letting certain guys test the market… I don’t think it’s a thing only inept franchises do (not that you’re saying this).

 

Bringing this back to Terry, I think there’s some degree of evidence both ways - that the waiting is about Snyder wanting to hold onto the money as long as possible, or that RR/the FO wanted to wait until summer.  

 

Considering 1) the team expressing the desire to surround Wentz with weapons and the desire to keep Terry, 2) that Terry is missing valuable time to build chemistry with Wentz, 3) that they’re missing his leadership/example in OTAs, 4) the distraction waiting brings, and 5) that Terry has essentially become more expensive as time has gone on, it would be a little surprising if RR/the FO were the culprits here.  With that said, if it comes out they were ‘culpable’, it’s far more damning than it would be if Snyder were the reason for delaying… which you’d think is one more item on the “Dan’s fault” side of the scale.

Actually the one thing Im not worried about with Terry missing camp is his chemistry with Wentz and actually in all honesty assuming the deal ends up getting done might be a blessing in disguise. Think about it this way Terry has shown over and over again he can play with any QB just about. So now with him being out of otas and minicamp Wentz is developing chemistry with his 2nd and 3rd wrs. Thats insanely valuable when you know that Terry can play with anybody 

[Voice_of_Reason]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not the only one talking about that subject here.  If you are going to say you think its Ron's mistake as you did this morning.  Where you are going to use logic, to pin it on him, logic which I don't agree with.  I'll respond and reexplain the Dan logic.  Simple as that. 

 

So if you or whomever stops taking shots at Ron for this, I'll stop taking shots at Dan.  Simple as that.  

I'm totally fine punting the whole "how we got here" conversation to one of the other threads.  My suggestion wasn't to stifle the conversation, I think it's a good one. And it's absolutely fine to have the conversation and to disagree. 

 

It's just literally occurring in 3 threads at the same time, and that's both exhausting and had to follow.  Which is why I suggested we move it to the "Dan has no money" thread and keep it out of this one.

 

Conversely, I think it's fair to say if you're taking shots at Ron for completely mis-handling the off-season schedule, that could (and is currently also going on in) go int he "A New Start" thread. 

 

If that's too much, and everybody wants to hash it out here also, who am I to say no, but I just think there are already threads for these topics, and it clutters this thread a bit.  

 

Though I do see how Terry's extension is the symptom of either problem, so I completely understand WHY it has been brought up here.  

 

My $.02. I have no power to make anything other than a suggestion, which is all it was.  And it was more to "organize" the conversation than either stop it or influence it in any way. 

[Mrshadow008]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm totally fine punting the whole "how we got here" conversation to one of the other threads.  My suggestion wasn't to stifle the conversation, I think it's a good one. And it's absolutely fine to have the conversation and to disagree. 

 

It's just literally occurring in 3 threads at the same time, and that's both exhausting and had to follow.  Which is why I suggested we move it to the "Dan has no money" thread and keep it out of this one.

 

Conversely, I think it's fair to say if you're taking shots at Ron for completely mis-handling the off-season schedule, that could (and is currently also going on in) go int he "A New Start" thread. 

 

If that's too much, and everybody wants to hash it out here also, who am I to say no, but I just think there are already threads for these topics, and it clutters this thread a bit.  

 

Though I do see how Terry's extension is the symptom of either problem, so I completely understand WHY it has been brought up here.  

 

My $.02. I have no power to make anything other than a suggestion, which is all it was.  And it was more to "organize" the conversation than either stop it or influence it in any way. 

That's totally fair and I get why that can be a pain in the neck. I think a large part of it is because those two scenarios are what's contributing to most of everything thats happening with this team right now so it ends up being brought up in so many places. Whether its about the stadium, the terry deal, no FAs being signed etc. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

That's totally fair and I get why that can be a pain in the neck. I think a large part of it is because those two scenarios are what's contributing to most of everything thats happening with this team right now so it ends up being brought up in so many places. Whether its about the stadium, the terry deal, no FAs being signed etc. 

I think what finally occurred to me is, "we are where we are.  How we got here, that's a great conversation for elsewhere."

 

When I was putting together the comp breakdown, I noticed something else:  I'm not entirely sure how much of a different spot we would have been if we had started trying to work this out in April. Maybe a little.  But not as much as I had thought, because the comps they would be looking at would have been about the same.  Maybe it would have been substantially different, I'm not sure.  

 

It really helped looking at the comps in detail. 

 

I think the sides were always going to disagree on value.  I think the team was always going to value Terry in the second-tier of WR, and therefore use those contracts as comps.  

 

Terry was always going to shoot for the moon.  (As he should.)

 

Neither side is wrong, both are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. 

 

Typically, when that happens, deals get done.  It will take some time, and there will have to be concessions on both sides.  Again, that's how deals get done. 

 

We can fairly ask the question, "if we started talking in March instead of June, would we be done sooner?"  

 

The answer might be yes, it also might be no.  It entirely would have depended on if the sides were willing to make concessions in March, or if they needed the deadline to make the concessions adn come to a deal.

 

You could easily convince me that neither side was going to make a concession until they had to.  In which case, it wasn't going to get done until the summer anyway. 

 

Now, if you told me that both teams absolutely agreed on the value right at the first meeting, then the deal gets done in the first conversation, whenever it is, March, April or June.  Clearly that wasn't the case.  

[Mrshadow008]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think what finally occurred to me is, "we are where we are.  How we got here, that's a great conversation for elsewhere."

 

When I was putting together the comp breakdown, I noticed something else:  I'm not entirely sure how much of a different spot we would have been if we had started trying to work this out in April. Maybe a little.  But not as much as I had thought, because the comps they would be looking at would have been about the same.  Maybe it would have been substantially different, I'm not sure.  

 

It really helped looking at the comps in detail. 

 

I think the sides were always going to disagree on value.  I think the team was always going to value Terry in the second-tier of WR, and therefore use those contracts as comps.  

 

Terry was always going to shoot for the moon.  (As he should.)

 

Neither side is wrong, both are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. 

 

Typically, when that happens, deals get done.  It will take some time, and there will have to be concessions on both sides.  Again, that's how deals get done. 

 

We can fairly ask the question, "if we started talking in March instead of June, would we be done sooner?"  

 

The answer might be yes, it also might be no.  It entirely would have depended on if the sides were willing to make concessions in March, or if they needed the deadline to make the concessions adn come to a deal.

 

You could easily convince me that neither side was going to make a concession until they had to.  In which case, it wasn't going to get done until the summer anyway. 

 

Now, if you told me that both teams absolutely agreed on the value right at the first meeting, then the deal gets done in the first conversation, whenever it is, March, April or June.  Clearly that wasn't the case.  

I dont disagree. And Ive made the argument before that there's also the possibility that even if we approached them early that Terry's side says no we wanna see how the market plays out considering who was up for new deals we dont wanna be the first to sign. Which in truth wouldve absolutely been the correct thing to do. Honestly if Im the team im going to them and saying here is a 3 year 55-57 million fully GTD deal or basically the Aj brown contract without the funny money and dare them to turn it down

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Honestly if Im the team im going to them and saying here is a 3 year 55-57 million fully GTD deal or basically the Aj brown contract without the funny money and dare them to turn it down

I said this before, from a negotiating standpoint, I'd take either the AJ Brown OR DJ Moore deal to them and see if they could work within those confines.  Chris Godwin would be harder, because he had 2 years left, and his extension was only 3 years. But the fundamentals are similar.  

 

If you took the average of those three deals (making the allowance for the extra year you'd have to add to Godwin's deal) you're looking at a contract that has ~$20M signing bonus, $40M guaranteed at signing, $48-50M fully guaranteed, and an AAV of just north of $20M.

 

Total money about $100M.  Of which, he'd probably see all of it, depending on the structure. That's basically what all three of those guys got when you take out the bogus money.  

 

And if you want to throw in an extra year at $40M/year to increase the AAV, fine, whatever.  The penalty for doing that would probably be ~$8M dead cap if they had to release him or trade him before the dead year popped up.

 

The thing is, if I'm Terry's agent, I keep showing them the numbers Terry put up vs. the numbers of the comps, and then a group picture of Keenum, McCoy, Haskins (RIP), One Legged Smith, Allen and Taylor Heinicke, and saying, "everybody else on the list had a top 10 QB.  Last year my guy had one of the worst starting QBs in the league.  Not your fault, Fitz got hurt.  But it is what it is. He would have easily met or surpassed a number of the guys on this list if he didn't have a noodle armed midget throwing him the ball."    They would also remind the Commanders Terry is part of their re-brand campaign.  And probably the #2 jersey sale (I assume #1 is Chase Young.) And then stand up and scream "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"  And ask for Kupp/Hill GTD money. 

 

And then the team says, "DJ Moore.  Sam Darnold.  Take the DJ Moore contract."

 

Terry's side says no. Terry is more valuable to the Commanders than that. 

 

And then they break to have dinner at the Palm.  

 

This will wash-rinse-repeat until one side caves a little, then the other side caves a little, then they meet where I said they are going to meet.  The average of Moore, Godwin and Brow's contract.

 

It is frustrating knowing the final answer and knowing it's going to take another 4-5 weeks to get there because that's the way the game is played.  

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I said this before, from a negotiating standpoint, I'd take either the AJ Brown OR DJ Moore deal to them and see if they could work within those confines.  Chris Godwin would be harder, because he had 2 years left, and his extension was only 3 years. But the fundamentals are similar.  

 

If you took the average of those three deals (making the allowance for the extra year you'd have to add to Godwin's deal) you're looking at a contract that has ~$20M signing bonus, $40M guaranteed at signing, $48-50M fully guaranteed, and an AAV of just north of $20M.

 

Total money about $100M.  Of which, he'd probably see all of it, depending on the structure. That's basically what all three of those guys got when you take out the bogus money.  

 

And if you want to throw in an extra year at $40M/year to increase the AAV, fine, whatever.  The penalty for doing that would probably be ~$8M dead cap if they had to release him or trade him before the dead year popped up.

 

The thing is, if I'm Terry's agent, I keep showing them the numbers Terry put up vs. the numbers of the comps, and then a group picture of Keenum, McCoy, Haskins (RIP), One Legged Smith, Allen and Taylor Heinicke, and saying, "everybody else on the list had a top 10 QB.  Last year my guy had one of the worst starting QBs in the league.  Not your fault, Fitz got hurt.  But it is what it is. He would have easily met or surpassed a number of the guys on this list if he didn't have a noodle armed midget throwing him the ball."    They would also remind the Commanders Terry is part of their re-brand campaign.  And probably the #2 jersey sale (I assume #1 is Chase Young.) And then stand up and scream "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"  And ask for Kupp/Hill GTD money. 

 

And then the team says, "DJ Moore.  Sam Darnold.  Take the DJ Moore contract."

 

Terry's side says no. Terry is more valuable to the Commanders than that. 

 

And then they break to have dinner at the Palm.  

 

This will wash-rinse-repeat until one side caves a little, then the other side caves a little, then they meet where I said they are going to meet.  The average of Moore, Godwin and Brow's contract.

 

It is frustrating knowing the final answer and knowing it's going to take another 4-5 weeks to get there because that's the way the game is played.  

I agree its frustrating. But I can also understand why its going like this. The Terry situation is almost entirely unique I would argue and its not nearly as simple as Terrys Side asking too much or the team low balling Terry unless they are being entirely unrealistic. From the teams side like you said on the field closest comp is probably Dj Moore. Projected comp with decent qb play is probably diggs or kupp. The problem is Terry when you combine Terrys value to THIS franchise from a both ON and Off field perspective hes probably more valuable to his current franchise than likely any other wr in the league

 

[Wyvern]

VoR  -- your chart shows Terry with 7 TDs in 2021. .... Wasn't it 5 TDs in 2021?

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

VoR  -- your chart shows Terry with 7 TDs in 2021. .... Wasn't it 5 TDs in 2021?

Yeah, that's a typo.  I think a quick re-check, the other numbers are correct.

 

 

[RWJ]

I said we'd sign him by June 15th. I was wrong.  I think @Skinsinparadise is spot on with the Breer report.  That and Allen was resigned on July 26th so late July makes sense.  The thing that doesn't look good for Terry is that he's holding out and under contract where Allen did not hold out under contract (i.e, regardless of years left), and Allen was a 1st round draft pick.  You honor a contract that you sign.  Those that don't I lose a bit of respect for.  Terry M is good, and we all know that, but YOU MUST honor your contract.  Food for thought.  My 2 cents. 

[skinsfan93]

3 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Actually the one thing Im not worried about with Terry missing camp is his chemistry with Wentz and actually in all honesty assuming the deal ends up getting done might be a blessing in disguise. Think about it this way Terry has shown over and over again he can play with any QB just about. So now with him being out of otas and minicamp Wentz is developing chemistry with his 2nd and 3rd wrs. Thats insanely valuable when you know that Terry can play with anybody 

I couldn’t disagree with you more on the negative impact of Terry missing playing time during minicamp. Yes he has shown that he can play with any qb but Wentz is definitely the most highly regarded qb we have had in years.  Plus to me it goes beyond just the qb and the wideout but how he is integrated into the system. Turner has already said the offense will adjust because Wentz has a strong arm. 
 

Plus Terry has no chemistry with Curtis besides a couple games. He has never played with Dotson, Turner, and Robinson. There’s a reason why this minicamp is mandatory. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by skinsfan93

[86 Snyder]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I said this before, from a negotiating standpoint, I'd take either the AJ Brown OR DJ Moore deal to them and see if they could work within those confines.  Chris Godwin would be harder, because he had 2 years left, and his extension was only 3 years. But the fundamentals are similar.  

 

If you took the average of those three deals (making the allowance for the extra year you'd have to add to Godwin's deal) you're looking at a contract that has ~$20M signing bonus, $40M guaranteed at signing, $48-50M fully guaranteed, and an AAV of just north of $20M.

 

Total money about $100M.  Of which, he'd probably see all of it, depending on the structure. That's basically what all three of those guys got when you take out the bogus money.  

 

And if you want to throw in an extra year at $40M/year to increase the AAV, fine, whatever.  The penalty for doing that would probably be ~$8M dead cap if they had to release him or trade him before the dead year popped up.

 

The thing is, if I'm Terry's agent, I keep showing them the numbers Terry put up vs. the numbers of the comps, and then a group picture of Keenum, McCoy, Haskins (RIP), One Legged Smith, Allen and Taylor Heinicke, and saying, "everybody else on the list had a top 10 QB.  Last year my guy had one of the worst starting QBs in the league.  Not your fault, Fitz got hurt.  But it is what it is. He would have easily met or surpassed a number of the guys on this list if he didn't have a noodle armed midget throwing him the ball."    They would also remind the Commanders Terry is part of their re-brand campaign.  And probably the #2 jersey sale (I assume #1 is Chase Young.) And then stand up and scream "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"  And ask for Kupp/Hill GTD money. 

 

And then the team says, "DJ Moore.  Sam Darnold.  Take the DJ Moore contract."

 

Terry's side says no. Terry is more valuable to the Commanders than that. 

 

And then they break to have dinner at the Palm.  

 

This will wash-rinse-repeat until one side caves a little, then the other side caves a little, then they meet where I said they are going to meet.  The average of Moore, Godwin and Brow's contract.

 

It is frustrating knowing the final answer and knowing it's going to take another 4-5 weeks to get there because that's the way the game is played.  

Amazing that you know all of this to be true but if someone dares to say Snyder is broke it’s yOu DoNt KnOw ThAt

[Mrshadow008]

13 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

I couldn’t disagree with you more on the negative impact of Terry missing playing time during minicamp. Yes he has shown that he can play with any qb but Wentz is definitely the most highly regarded qb we have had in years.  Plus to me it goes beyond just the qb and the wideout but how he is integrated into the system. Turner has already said the offense will adjust because Wentz has a strong arm. 
 

Plus Terry has no chemistry with Curtis besides a couple games. He has never played with Dotson, Turner, and Robinson. There’s a reason why this minicamp is mandatory. 

Curtis and Terry played for 3 seasons together at Ohio State and were roommates i think the chemistry between the two will be fine. Wentz may be most highly regarded Qb Terry has ever had. But guess what Terry is also The best WR wentz has ever had and it might not even be close. Both of them have been fairly successful in their careers with average to below average Qbs or WRs. I have 0 concern about either one of them being able to get on the same page and quickly but what this does do is it gives Dotson a real chance to gain Wentz trust early and for Dotson thats absolutely invaluable 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Amazing that you know all of this to be true but if someone dares to say Snyder is broke it’s yOu DoNt KnOw ThAt

I mean, I was kindof joking about knowing the future and I think you know that…

 

The “break for dinner at the Palm” was a dead giveaway.  They always go to Morton’s.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[86 Snyder]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, I was kindof joking about knowing the future and I think you know that…

Which part of your post points to it being a joke?

[Mrshadow008]

20 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I said we'd sign him by June 15th. I was wrong.  I think @Skinsinparadise is spot on with the Breer report.  That and Allen was resigned on July 26th so late July makes sense.  The thing that doesn't look good for Terry is that he's holding out and under contract where Allen did not hold out under contract (i.e, regardless of years left), and Allen was a 1st round draft pick.  You honor a contract that you sign.  Those that don't I lose a bit of respect for.  Terry M is good, and we all know that, but YOU MUST honor your contract.  Food for thought.  My 2 cents. 

Allen was going to get paid 10 million on his 5th year option regardless of whether he was signed or not or injured or not. Terry Mcclaurins entire 4 year contract was for less than 4 million and hes making less than 3 this season. Terry has a lot more to risk if he were to get injured than Allen did. Its an entirely different situation. ask yourself in his shoes what would you do if you had 50-60 million dollars on the line