Landon Collins and the #21 debate...

[OVCChairman]

I voted NO and that it should be off limits forever.  

 

It's not about the quality of the player wanting to wear it

 

It's not about the resume of the player wanting to wear it

 

It's not about that person living up to the expectation

 

 

It's about the fact that this fanbase had a member of it's family taken at the hands of another person while they were a member of the team, and the number 21 is the only 'real' connection that the fanbase has with that player.  Sean Taylor has taken on Legend status.  The guy is folklore anymore.   It's not about a number..  21 in BnG IS Sean Taylor. 

 

When you think of that number, you don't think about Fred Smoot, Earnest Byner (who's more decorated), or any other member who wore that number in the past.  Do a quick google image search of Redskins no. 21.  You have to go half way down the page before you see Byner, and you also see where Clark wore it in practice as a tribute.  

When you think of 81 you think of Monk

28 - Darrell Green

33 - Sammy Baugh

21 - Sean Taylor

 

 

That number transcends the football field.  It's deeper than a jersey.  There is 1 person that should ever be 'allowed' to wear 21 in BnG and it's :

 

 

 

 

[dballer]

I don't really know how I feel about it as far as if it is diminishing STs memory or anything. But I feel like it wouldn't be smart for Collins. Putting undue pressure on himself, and obviously will upset a portion of the fanbase by doing it. Just go with 36. And retire 21 so we don't have to talk about it anymore.

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, dballer said:

I don't really know how I feel about it as far as if it is diminishing STs memory or anything. But I feel like it wouldn't be smart for Collins. Putting undue pressure on himself, and obviously will upset a portion of the fanbase by doing it. Just go with 36. And retire 21 so we don't have to talk about it anymore.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he's already come out and said he's wearing 26, so he respects the number.  I doubt he even tried to get it... this is likely just a fanbase debate.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

I think this is a very good point.

 

Here is my overview and thoughts of Sean Taylor...

 

He made plays.. had some interceptions..alot of highlights to wow us. I loved his size..how he used it. It seemed he started his life down a rocky road than began straightening it out with the birth of his daughter. 

 

I've already explained myself a few times when a player makes a play to seal the deal on a win or makes a play to give us more points than the other team to give us the win, especially when the team we beat is a heated divisional rival that player becomes a legend in my eyes.

 

Legends to me: 

 Troy Vincent

Preston Smith

Clinton Portis

Chris Cooley 

Santana Moss

Sean Taylor.. just to name a few.

The year Sean passed we were playing the cowboys..we lost and Sean was out injured.. wasn't even at the stadium.. it sucked it was a slow painful loss and I truly believed that had Sean Taylor played we could have won.. the whole game all I could think about was Sean Taylor not playing. I was so fixated on it and I don't know why. Right shortly after he was murdered I felt so awful for being so greedy so demanding of him having to play.. so when he passed it hit home for me.

 

That was the TO game in Dallas I think. We played pretty well but just couldn't get over the hump. If it's the game I'm thinking about, any time Campbell would get us within striking distance, TO would catch a TD (I'm almost positive he had 3 or 4). 

 

Good post, by the way. 

[goskins10]

I voted yes but only because that was the closest option to my thoughts. 

 

My real thoughts? People make way too much out of jersey number. It's way over the top to be honest. When I think of Art Monk, I think of Art Monk and some of the big plays a moments he has had. When i think of Darrell Green I think of the plays he made to help the team. 

 

A number is just a number! Sorry for those that see more meaning to it but i just do not care. If he wants to wear it for his own reasons then wear the number. As for putting undue pressure because of the jersey number, that is just ridiculous.  

 

The pressure is living up to the contract and helping the team win the best way he can. If anyone truly has higher expectations because of a number. I got nothing for you. Please tell me exactly how the jersey number on their back can make them play better or worse? If you can, please find the right number for each player so we can make the SB. Maybe that's the Patriot's secret! 

[bakedtater1]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That was the TO game in Dallas I think. We played pretty well but just couldn't get over the hump. If it's the game I'm thinking about, any time Campbell would get us within striking distance, TO would catch a TD (I'm almost positive he had 3 or 4). 

 

Good post, by the way. 

Thank you...that's right it was the t.o game..he did have 3 or 4 touchdowns..I just kept thinking if 21 was on the field t.o wouldn't be having this performance.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

8 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Thank you...that's right it was the t.o game..he did have 3 or 4 touchdowns..I just kept thinking if 21 was on the field t.o wouldn't be having this performance.

I just looked it up...

 

8 catches for 173 yards and 4 TDs 

 

TD catches of 4, 31, 46, and 52 yards. You have to imagine that Taylor would have had something to say - at least about the 3 longer ones. 

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I just looked it up...

 

8 catches for 173 yards and 4 TDs 

 

TD catches of 4, 31, 46, and 52 yards. You have to imagine that Taylor would have had something to say - at least about the 3 longer ones. 

Yep exactly...that's why 21 is a big thing to me .it's personal for me..hard to explain..but thanks man..I appreciate it.

[clskinsfan]

16 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

We haven't seen a player with Sean's passion...Sean Taylor was #21, jersey numbers do matter..ya think of any players in the past or present and there number comes to mind instantly...tell me jersey numbers don't matter..psssst jersey numbers put the NFL in NFL.

 

I disagree about 21 being linked to Taylor outside of this organization. To everyone else 21 is Sanders. And I would let any number be reissued. Let the next player sink or swim. If they have the guts to put that number on they better live up to it. Or face the wrath of the fans for disrespecting it.

[bakedtater1]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

 

I disagree about 21 being linked to Taylor outside of this organization. To everyone else 21 is Sanders. 

Oh for sure.. totally agree here..take 100 random fans across the country and ask them which NFL player comes to mind when you think of the number 21.. guaranteed 75% or more is going to say deion Sanders..

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Jason Campbell through 58 TD's a year while here?...is this sarcasm?

 

. . . is that question an attempt to double sarcasm me?

 

Well done, sir. Well done.

 

In all seriousness, the point is that just because someone likes a player doesn't mean they're anything close to that player. This is not a Landon Collins thing. I wanted him out of college mostly because of his feelings towards Sean.

 

I just don't think that ANYONE should get a ring of Fame player's number just because he recognizes that the player was incredible.

 

I think Nirvana is two levels shove any other band, and I own a guitar. Don't call me Kurt.

[bakedtater1]

2 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

. . . is that question an attempt to double sarcasm me?

 

Well done, sir. Well done.

 

In all seriousness, the point is that just because someone likes a player doesn't mean they're anything close to that player. This is not a Landon Collins thing. I wanted him out of college mostly because of his feelings towards Sean.

 

I just don't think that ANYONE should get a ring of Fame player's number just because he recognizes that the player was incredible.

 

I think Nirvana is two levels shove any other band, and I own a guitar. Don't call me Kurt.

No sorry not trying to pour on the sarcasm... I take it you were being sarcastic now about Jason lol

[TD_washingtonredskins]

14 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Yep exactly...that's why 21 is a big thing to me .it's personal for me..hard to explain..but thanks man..I appreciate it.

 

I hope my original post didn't come off as bashing the poor guy...I just think we went from "he's a promising and emerging star" to "he's Ronnie Lott combined with Rod Woodson" simply because he was tragically murdered. 

 

He was on a great path...as someone mentioned (maybe you), he had a rocky start to his career but had seemed to mature with the birth of his daughter. So, it's very possible that he'd have continued to hone his skills, take care of his body, and play another 8-10 years. It's also just as, if not more, likely that he would have plateaued or become injury-prone or slipped back up into legal issues. 

 

There were probably times in Lavar Arrington's career when we would have said "he'll be a stud for 10 years" only to see him underachieve with the God-given gifts he had. Sean Taylor's legacy actually benefits from his passing just because we can't ever prove that he wouldn't have been the best ever - no matter how unlikely that was. 

[bakedtater1]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I hope my original post didn't come off as bashing the poor guy...

It didn't to me at all..I thought it was a very good solid point 👍

[NewCliche21]

12 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

No sorry not trying to pour on the sarcasm... I take it you were being sarcastic now about Jason lol

 

LOL yep, I was. People (I am in this group) annointed Campbell the next great because Gibbs traded up for him. Williams gave him his blessing.

 

And Campbell sucked.

 

Make a name for yourself and get your number to have the same prestige. Use your idols as inspirations to become an idol yourself. It's the same thing I tell my kids. Don't be next; be great.

[MEANDWARF]

Just assign him #36. And maybe later #21 later.

Mike Nelms help the team out during the Super Bowl years at punt and kick off returns. 

Let's give him some kudos!!!!!

[SemperFi Skins]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022815/article/landon-collins-hopes-to-honor-taylor-by-wearing-no-21

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022815/article/landon-collins-hopes-to-honor-taylor-by-wearing-no-21

 

 

 

For a long time, i've said that this would be very close to my breaking point of pushing me away from the team.  I don't like it.  I personally don't want anyone wearing that number. 

 

I realize i was probably being boisterous and loud and i'll likely never turn my back on this team...

 

I guess if someone was to wear it, someone like Collins would taste the least terrible.  He gets the severity of the number, he appears to respect it, and it's not going to some rookie hot shot coming out of college that doesnt want to be here.   He's made it clear that he wants to be here... 

 

I'll root for him, i'm a fan of his, and I don't necessarily think less of him if he does it, but i'm not a fan of anyone wearing that jersey other than the example above.  

[NewCliche21]

29 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022815/article/landon-collins-hopes-to-honor-taylor-by-wearing-no-21

 

I can understand him wanting to wear it.

 

I still don't think he should.

 

I still don't understand why some of you are arguing that he should wear it because he's got some reverence towards Sean.  Why, and how, does that in any way mitigate or justify his wearing of the number?  Would you do the same for 7, 9, 28, 33, 81?  "I modeled my game after Sonny, so I should wear his number."  That's just crazy to me.

[OVCChairman]

7 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I can understand him wanting to wear it.

 

I still don't think he should.

 

I still don't understand why some of you are arguing that he should wear it because he's got some reverence towards Sean.  Why, and how, does that in any way mitigate or justify his wearing of the number?  Would you do the same for 7, 9, 28, 33, 81?  "I modeled my game after Sonny, so I should wear his number."  That's just crazy to me.

 

 

I hope I didnt come across as an endorsement... i dont think ANYONE should wear it..

 

My point was that someone like Collins, who clearly has a respect for the number and the Jersey, leaves LESS of a bad taste in my mouth than someone who hasn't shown a level of respect for the life and number of Sean Taylor.  He wore 21 as a tribute to ST... that's a lot different than someone who comes in and want's the number because 'it was their college number" or some variance of that.  

 

I don't want Collins wearing it, but if it's going to be forced upon me (and ultimately i have zero say about it), there are a lot worst players that it would piss me off a lot more.  

[justice98]

19 hours ago, dyst said:

People need to chill the hell out regarding jersey numbers. It’s just a number. Sean was good when he was here but we act like this is Jordan we are talking about. The guy played 4 years that’s it.

 

This is where I've always been with it.  I don't think it should really be in question whether he can wear it or not.  

[TheBlueIndian]

 

 

19 hours ago, earl said:

IMO only #44, #28 and #33 are off limits.    to get #81 you need to ask Monk for permission.  to get #21  you should have to wear #36 for a year and earn it.   if you can't then you need to give up #36 too,  for the next person who wants to try. 

 Why ask permission for 81 if 44, 33, & 28 are off limits ?

I don't kniw what the right thing is here. It really seems like a fitting way to honor ST 21 but I would defer to Seans parents.  They might or might not want Collins in that # for their own personal reasons

[TheBlueIndian]

I have flip flopped on this thing a couple times in the last day or so, but I now think I havw landed on the idea that the only way anyone should ever get 21 involves this scenario:

 

Taylors family heard of the signing  and initially reached out to Collins and asked him to wear it to honor their son. Not the other way around. If that is the case then absolutely. 

 

Otherwise this should not be brought up again. 

[justice98]

Let everybody wear every number.  If somebody wanted to wear 28, 81, 44, etc, I'm fine with it. I have to say, I've spent 0.00% of my 4 decade history as a Redskins fan wringing my hands over what number somebody wore. 

 

I dont think its disrespectful, it doesnt offend me, I'm really emotionally unattached to numbers and jerseys.

[Leonard Washington]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

Let everybody wear every number.  If somebody wanted to wear 28, 81, 44, etc, I'm fine with it. I have to say, I've spent 0.00% of my 4 decade history as a Redskins fan wringing my hands over what number somebody wore. 

 

I dont think its disrespectful, it doesnt offend me, I'm really emotionally unattached to numbers and jerseys.

Agreed.  Either the organization retires the number or let anyone wear it.  

 

Collins is asking for trouble from this finicky fanbase if he wants to wear 21 or 36.  If I were Collins I would either want to earn it after a few years of play or start my own legacy that builds on the best of ST.