pcbothwel Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 What about John Brown? Playing with Lamar Jackson and a 37/38 y/o Carson Palmer over the last 3 years has depressed his stats.... But he is a great buy-low guy. Im also real curious about Justin Houston... Getting him for a Preston Smith type contract or less would be a great get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordranger76 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I still think we have a surprise coming. Jordan Hicks maybe? Or further on the limb Justin Houston. Falling out of the tree pick is Earl Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Gruden was hired to salvage RGIII's career. He failed, but RGIII's injuries and Kirk's surprising emergence gave Gruden the mulligan he needed. He would have been fired years ago if Kirk hadn't become a good starting QB. Make no mistake, that's what Kirk is. This roster is not inferior, it's mostly built and we'd be a lot better off today if we had just paid Kirk. The FO ****ed the dog on that situation and we're still bailing water trying to recover from the mistake. I know this FO would prefer for fan memory to go back only a couple of months, but It's not lost on me that we couldn't find the money to pay Kirk, but we could find the money to pay Alex Smith and reset the safety market. Kirk worked out with Jon Gruden before he was drafted and loved him. Jay made all the right noises in his interview about fixing the unfixable RGIII but the clues were there from the start that he wanted to build the team around Kirk and he did just that as soon as RGIII gave him the inevitable opening. The subsequent ***** up over Kirk's contract was largely the fault of the FO with some blame shared with Kirk and his agent. Gruden was never the problem in this situation, he identified the right player and then got ****ed by the front office. Bruce and Dan would love for you to think that Jay is to blame though, he is the perfect patsy for Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 it's assumed John Brown will end up in Tampa Bay as a DJax replacement because of his familiarity with the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Gruden was hired to salvage RGIII's career. He failed, but RGIII's injuries and Kirk's surprising emergence gave Gruden the mulligan he needed. He would have been fired years ago if Kirk hadn't become a good starting QB. Make no mistake, that's what Kirk is. This roster is not inferior, it's mostly built and we'd be a lot better off today if we had just paid Kirk. The FO ****ed the dog on that situation and we're still bailing water trying to recover from the mistake. I know this FO would prefer for fan memory to go back only a couple of months, but It's not lost on me that we couldn't find the money to pay Kirk, but we could find the money to pay Alex Smith and reset the safety market. I don't recall Gruden being particularly versed in dealing with RPO QBs. And Cousins is a good QB who wants to be treated like a great QB. We could either do that or embitter him. Cousins would be going into his fourth of his contract if we'd paid himin his first FA season , so we'd likely be paying him as much as Smith and Keenum are making for about what Keenum will produce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Gruden was hired to salvage RGIII's career. He failed, but RGIII's injuries and Kirk's surprising emergence gave Gruden the mulligan he needed. He would have been fired years ago if Kirk hadn't become a good starting QB. Make no mistake, that's what Kirk is. This roster is not inferior, it's mostly built and we'd be a lot better off today if we had just paid Kirk. The FO ****ed the dog on that situation and we're still bailing water trying to recover from the mistake. I know this FO would prefer for fan memory to go back only a couple of months, but It's not lost on me that we couldn't find the money to pay Kirk, but we could find the money to pay Alex Smith and reset the safety market. Alex Smith was a bad signing, but I truly believe that the plan was sound: Year 1: sign respected leader and mentor at qb with little injury history, who also happens to have a very high win percentage, and rarely turns the ball over. Year 2: draft qb and let Alex mentor him while Alex helps establish a professional offense with the new offensive rookie pieces. Year 3: Rookie takes the reigns while Alex at 36 plays vet presence and quality backup role Year 4: Alex is released There was nothing wrong with that plan until Alex went down with a career ending injury. Case more or less continues that plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: 2 years ago Eric Berry signed almost a clone of this deal if you take into account the increase in the salary cap. The numbers are scary similar... that set the market before we did. Eric Berry signed a 6 year, $78,000,000 contract with the Kansas City Chiefs, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus, $40,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $13,000,000. In 2019, Berry will earn a base salary of $12,400,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000, while carrying a cap hit of $16,500,000 and a dead cap value of $14,950,000. Landon Collins signed a 6 year, $84,000,000 contract with the Washington Redskins, including a $15,000,000 signing bonus, $44,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $14,000,000. In 2019, Collins will earn a base salary of $1,000,000 and a signing bonus of $15,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,000,000 and a dead cap value of $41,000,000. Paying Eric Berry coming off his 2016 season is one thing and paying Landon Collins coming off his 2018 season another. Berry was the 13th player in the NFL top 100 heading into 2016 because of that season. Landon Collins was 92nd heading into last year and he's not going to make the cut next season. But setting that part of it aside, of the six biggest APY numbers for current DB contracts, the other five are corners. Collins's contract is an outlier that forced the market for safeties up a lot. We doubled Tyrann Mathieu's salary from the previous year and Earl Thomas is probably going to get paid now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said: I added 2018 shortly thereafter Tyrell as the #1 this year had less than 700 yards. Benjamin was averaging 1000 yards as the #1. He had a down year, didn't start, and was between 2-3 teams this year. Not saying he's the best thing since sliced bread, however, I am saying he's just as much a gamble as Williams is and I certainly wouldn't pay that kind of money to Williams that he's requesting. Tyrell was still number 3 at best?...he was behind Kennan Allen and Mike Williams...and Gordon had more receptions. And I am not advocating signing Tyrell. I have owned him off and on in fantasy...He can absolutely disappear for stretches during the season. Just trying to say he is a decent player and Kelvin, at this point, is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, max21 said: So uhhh who’s filling Preston’s spot? Anderson? Going to bring back one of our favorites: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Eh, I don't see a point in getting an older short term option to try and start. Take the training wheels off for Anderson this year. We need to know what he can do as a starter. We can go cheaper at OLB and get a vet back up. Yeh, i mean, what'd we draft Anderson in the second round for if he can't play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said: There was nothing wrong with that plan until Alex went down with a career ending injury. Case more or less continues that plan. You don't give up picks and and player and give Alex Smith the kind of contract we gave him to become a back up by his second or third year. Alex was brought in to be our guy, not a bridge QB. It was never a good plan because Alex Smith has never been more than a decent, care taker type QB. It was a desperation move made to save jobs after the FO botched the contract negotiations with their QB and had him walk out of the door for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Preston Smith is a nice player. He'd be a great strongside backer in a 4-3. He might be a nice defensive end. But you really can't have a guy like him across from Kerrigan as neither can cover anything so every play teams have a two-way go in the flat on us. You could survive this if Smith was, like Kerrigan, a lock for 11 or more sacks a year. But Smith never quite does any of that, so sad to see him go, but you'll get very similar production from anyone and likely the team will actually target a guy who can cover a tiny bit. The infatuation with Williams as a "No. 1" is pretty funny to me. This guy is AT BEST a 2 and probably a solid 3. A No. 1 receiver is a guy who will get 100 balls and 1100 yards a year. Williams wouldn't hurt our roster, but he's not the answer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I’m really questioning our 1st round pick this year now with Preston leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Art said: Preston Smith is a nice player. He'd be a great strongside backer in a 4-3. He might be a nice defensive end. But you really can't have a guy like him across from Kerrigan as neither can cover anything so every play teams have a two-way go in the flat on us. You could survive this if Smith was, like Kerrigan, a lock for 11 or more sacks a year. But Smith never quite does any of that, so sad to see him go, but you'll get very similar production from anyone and likely the team will actually target a guy who can cover a tiny bit. The infatuation with Williams as a "No. 1" is pretty funny to me. This guy is AT BEST a 2 and probably a solid 3. A No. 1 receiver is a guy who will get 100 balls and 1100 yards a year. Williams wouldn't hurt our roster, but he's not the answer there. Williams was never given opportunity to be #1, he has the talent. If I had the choice between him and Richardson, it's a no brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, stevemcqueen1 said: Paying Eric Berry coming off his 2016 season is one thing and paying Landon Collins coming off his 2018 season another. Berry was the 13th player in the NFL top 100 heading into 2016 because of that season. Landon Collins was 92nd heading into last year and he's not going to make the cut next season. But setting that part of it aside, of the six biggest APY numbers for current DB contracts, the other five are corners. Collins's contract is an outlier that forced the market for safeties up a lot. We doubled Tyrann Mathieu's salary from the previous year and Earl Thomas is probably going to get paid now too. Collins was likely punished because of his injury.. Trent Williams is regarded quite a bit as one of the top 3 LTs in football.... he ranked 57th. Carson Wentz was ranked no. 3 and there was talk that Nick Foles is a better option going forward. Gurley ranked no. 6 and he got surpassed by C.J. Anderson when the season really mattered. That is voted on by the players. Collins played in 12 games last season and had 96 total tackles / 67 solo. Berry played in 16 games in 2016 and had 77 total tackles / 62 solo. You pointed out that Berry was 13 going INTO 2016... the year before he got paid. Collins was 28th overall going into 2018. My whole point also was not us paying Collins as much as responding to your point about basically resetting the market and inflating the CB $$. Berry's contract set that market 2 years ago. If that CB $$ is pushed up, his contract was the first one to set that table... not Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabbypatty Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Art said: Preston Smith is a nice player. He'd be a great strongside backer in a 4-3. He might be a nice defensive end. But you really can't have a guy like him across from Kerrigan as neither can cover anything so every play teams have a two-way go in the flat on us. You could survive this if Smith was, like Kerrigan, a lock for 11 or more sacks a year. But Smith never quite does any of that, so sad to see him go, but you'll get very similar production from anyone and likely the team will actually target a guy who can cover a tiny bit. I think this is right where Anderson fits in. He's a better runner in space than Smith and can probably match or come close to Smith's sack production at a much lower price. Not sold on his coverage ability but I think that is an upgrade over Smith's.. even if it's only a slight amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, carex said: I don't recall Gruden being particularly versed in dealing with RPO QBs. And Cousins is a good QB who wants to be treated like a great QB. We could either do that or embitter him. Cousins would be going into his fourth of his contract if we'd paid himin his first FA season , so we'd likely be paying him as much as Smith and Keenum are making for about what Keenum will produce There is no way that Keenum will be as productive as Cousins. He had one fluky run in Minnesota where he was decent. Everything else tells us he's a back up caliber QB. Hoping for more than that is unrealistic. Why expect Cousins to be bitter if we'd just paid him when the time came instead of jerking him around and tagging him? That's how most teams handle their business at QB when they've got a guy there. I guess because we've never had a good QB for more than a season or two over the last 40 years that we had no clue what to do when it was time to negotiate an extension. But at the very least, a front office that was any good, who was iffy about committing to Cousins, would have headed off the chance of having him walk for nothing by using Kirk to get a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, stevemcqueen1 said: You don't give up picks and and player and give Alex Smith the kind of contract we gave him to become a back up by his second or third year. Alex was brought in to be our guy, not a bridge QB. It was never a good plan because Alex Smith has never been more than a decent, care taker type QB. It was a desperation move made to save jobs after the FO botched the contract negotiations with their QB and had him walk out of the door for nothing. he was expected to be a success but his contract was designed so he'd be gone after three years. He'd have only had a dead cap of 10. 8 million then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: You don't give up picks and and player and give Alex Smith the kind of contract we gave him to become a back up by his second or third year. Alex was brought in to be our guy, not a bridge QB. It was never a good plan because Alex Smith has never been more than a decent, care taker type QB. It was a desperation move made to save jobs after the FO botched the contract negotiations with their QB and had him walk out of the door for nothing. Alex just executed that plan 2 times prior to us trading for him ( Kap + MaHomes). Yes, that is exactly what he was brought here to do. I’m not so upset at losing Fuller over it, because we are pretty decent at building up cbs in Washington, and fuller has turned out to be just a nickle corner. But it I agree it was too much to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actorguy1 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Want Hockenson at 15 if there or trade back for Fant. There's your passing game upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: There is no way that Keenum will be as productive as Cousins. He had one fluky run in Minnesota where he was decent. Everything else tells us he's a back up caliber QB. Hoping for more than that is unrealistic. Why expect Cousins to be bitter if we'd just paid him when the time came instead of jerking him around and tagging him? That's how most teams handle their business at QB when they've got a guy there. I guess because we've never had a good QB for more than a season or two over the last 40 years that we had no clue what to do when it was time to negotiate an extension. But at the very least, a front office that was any good, who was iffy about committing to Cousins, would have headed off the chance of having him walk for nothing by using Kirk to get a replacement. Kirk wouldn't be worth much more than the comp pick we're getting. And frankly in Minnestoa Kirk's still seeming less than happy even with getting his money and the starting job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Man, Kirk was smart enough to know what he’d get on the open market, and there was no way he was staying here. His mind was made up. The FO miscalculated his mindset, thinking they could sway him to stay, but I’m glad we didn’t pay that contract in the end. ( unless of course somehow the plan is Alex smith / case are the answer... but I highly doubt that anyone could be that dense.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, Art said: The infatuation with Williams as a "No. 1" is pretty funny to me. This guy is AT BEST a 2 and probably a solid 3. A No. 1 receiver is a guy who will get 100 balls and 1100 yards a year. Williams wouldn't hurt our roster, but he's not the answer there. Yeh, I think I was coming across like I was advocating for Williams like he was going to be the man...he is a nice complimentary piece. A #2 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Why are you mocking the box safety term? Do you know what that is? I certainly do, but we’ve already had extensive, humorous discussion in this thread regarding how the term is gonna flexed into a perjorative ad nauseam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, pcbothwel said: What about John Brown? Playing with Lamar Jackson and a 37/38 y/o Carson Palmer over the last 3 years has depressed his stats.... But he is a great buy-low guy. Im also real curious about Justin Houston... Getting him for a Preston Smith type contract or less would be a great get Brown would be a good deep threat add, but I thought that was Paul Richardson's job? We need someone to go over the middle and that's not really his game. Houston concerns me. He was a beast leading up to his contract extension (had a 22 sack season!!!), but after that ACL surgeries have sort of capped his production at under 10 sacks. I'd like him at the right price, but clearly he's not the potential defensive MVP he once was. I would expect him to sign a deal similar to Brandon Graham. $13M/y, 3 year deal with a good chunk guaranteed. That's a bit expensive for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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