Riggo#44 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, bearrock said: While no fan would say no to one of the richest owners in baseball sugar daddy bankrolling the team's operations, that's not what people like PB or me are asking for. But there's a happy medium between being the biggest spender in baseball and trying to wedge in major deferred dollars to every big contact (thus creating the illusion of the contract being bigger than it really is) and saying that you can't afford to keep one of the best players in baseball because you're gonna have 2-4 years left on big contracts for a pitcher and you want to pay another generational talent (whether you actually do is a whole different matter). That's actually exactly what he said. And people act like the Nats are the only ones who use deferred dollars--every team does it. Just about every single one. And somehow, despite having our biggest revue stream cut off, the Lerners have put a competitive team on the field, with a top 5-10 payroll for almost a decade. What happy medium do you want? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, bearrock said: While no fan would say no to one of the richest owners in baseball sugar daddy bankrolling the team's operations, that's not what people like PB or me are asking for. But there's a happy medium between being the biggest spender in baseball and trying to wedge in major deferred dollars to every big contact (thus creating the illusion of the contract being bigger than it really is) and saying that you can't afford to keep one of the best players in baseball because you're gonna have 2-4 years left on big contracts for a pitcher and you want to pay another generational talent (whether you actually do is a whole different matter). What you’re saying is exactly how the Nationals operate. They still have one of the highest payrolls & have shelled out big money to plenty of players. They just cannot operate like the LA Dodgers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Me with the sports page and my coffee this morning: 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) On 7/30/2021 at 4:49 AM, d0ublestr0ker0ll said: Man, this is seriously depressing. Good, bad, ugly in the long run...whatever it ends up...it's ugly right now. Trea in a Dodgers Uni? I literally can't watch. If I see him playing I'll turn my head or walk away. Thought he could be a lifer. 2019 seems like it was a decade ago. Agreed 100%. Who knows if or when they'll even sniff the postseason. It's going to be a whole lot of ugly before it gets better. Never thought they would be doing a fire sale, but it is what it is. Edited July 31, 2021 by SAli457180 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, -JB- said: What you’re saying is exactly how the Nationals operate. They still have one of the highest payrolls & have shelled out big money to plenty of players. They just cannot operate like the LA Dodgers. The Red Sox--one of the richest teams in baseball--traded Mookie Betts and David Price about 18 months ago. Their return was lambasted. They were ripped as being cheap and tanking. They're doing pretty well right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: This is patently untrue. The Dodgers have a $284m payroll. That's $85m more than the Yankees. They also signed a 25-yr $8.35B television contract--fangraphs lists their TV revenue at $239m. We received $77m, but due to the litigation, I am not sure we even got that. You want the Lerners to operate at a loss. Yes, I do. They are billionaires. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just now, SAli457180 said: Agreed 100%. Who knows if or when they'll even sniff the postseason. It's going to be a whole lot of ugly before it gets better. Never thought they would doing a fire sale, but it is what it is. Well, they didn’t sniff it last year and were coming apart at the seams this year. Josiah Gray is the 21st prospect in all of baseball & Ruiz is #43. Couldn’t ask for a better haul. Of all the teams in on Max, the Dodgers had the highest ranked prospect in discussions plus Ruiz who is a very near MLB Catcher which is a big position of need going forward. Cade Cavalli has been a fast rising prospect also ranked #70 so now we went from before the season having no prospects in the top 100 to 3 and hopefully counting. Armando Cruz will be 18 in January and if he can be a fast riser we could be in tremendous shape going forward with also SS Brady House entering the fray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Yes, I do. They are billionaires. It's too early to be this drunk. 25 minutes ago, -JB- said: Josiah Gray is the 21st prospect in all of baseball & Ruiz is #43. Baseball America has Ruiz #16, Gray #59. To go with Cavalli at #27 and House at #92. We also have top international prospects on the way including Andry Lara and Armando Cruz. Plus we're linked to top international prospect Christian Vaquero. Edited July 30, 2021 by Riggo#44 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, TheDoyler23 said: The Nationals lost so much money in the pandemic. Baseball teams receive a tremendous bump in attendance the year AFTER a championship. With that season being a wash and 2021 having capacity limits, covid anxiety plus time away, they really missed out. Absolutely. Went straight from Championship to rebuild mode without having the fan interest and attendance bump that usually comes with the former. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just for inventory: We picked up two starters, two relievers, a shortstop, and an outfielder. Looks like a lot of potential with the catchers, one or two starters and one or two of the relievers. We also may move Harrison, Bell, and Gomes today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: That's actually exactly what he said. And people act like the Nats are the only ones who use deferred dollars--every team does it. Just about every single one. And somehow, despite having our biggest revue stream cut off, the Lerners have put a competitive team on the field, with a top 5-10 payroll for almost a decade. What happy medium do you want? 14 minutes ago, -JB- said: What you’re saying is exactly how the Nationals operate. They still have one of the highest payrolls & have shelled out big money to plenty of players. They just cannot operate like the LA Dodgers. Both of you know as well as I do that Nats' payroll is not as high as the numbers because their payroll is heavily deferred and backloaded. I'm not aware of any team doing deferred contracts to their extent for every big contracts like the Nats do. They've been paying Max $15 per year for the last 6 years. Stras and Corbin all have major deferred money. That's the real reason that they chose not to keep Trea, because they are budgeting based on actual cashflow rather than when the salary was allocated. Stras and Corbin's cap hit 10+ million lower than the actual money they'll be getting post 2022, but they will look at the actual money going out (including Max's deferred money too). What that doesn't account is that the actual money that went out from 2019-2022 is much lower than what is reported as payroll. Deferred money is fine if you're either using the budget room created in the discount years to fit more money under the lux tax or if you are not counting the outgoing money towards your spending during the deferred payment years (in essence, using deferred money to generate a little extra income in interest). If you do it and count the deferred portion twice in essence (count it towards your cap allocation in discount years and then count it again when money actually goes out), you are spending nowhere near the reported cap amount. Leaving you razor thin margin of error for when things like Stras' injury happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: It's too early to be this drunk. I don't understand the issue. The Lerners are worth $5 billion. FIVE BILLION DOLLARS. They could operate the team at a $100 million per year loss and still be billionaires by the time they are all dead, even if they never made another dollar on the rest of their massive holdings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bearrock said: I'm not aware of any team doing deferred contracts to their extent for every big contracts like the Nats do. Open a browser. Type in www.google.com. Search "baseball deferred contracts" In 10 seconds I found several deferred contracts for the Angels, Mets, Reds, Red Sox, Brewers, Tigers, Braves, Cardinals... Deferred payments reduces the lux tax hit. The Nationals used this money to win a title. Dip, duck, dive, dodge the issue--the Lerners operate exactly how you say they should operate. 6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I don't understand the issue. The Lerners are worth $5 billion. FIVE BILLION DOLLARS. They could operate the team at a $100 million per year loss and still be billionaires by the time they are all dead, even if they never made another dollar on the rest of their massive holdings. BAAAAHHHHH LOSE MONEY FOR MY ENJOYMENT ****ING SELFISH ASSHOLES! And no, you don't get it. Your whining is childish, idiotic, and complete drug-induced fantasy. It's not happening with any team. Edited July 30, 2021 by Riggo#44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 29 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Me with the sports page and my coffee this morning: Wait you don't read sports on the Internet like some of us normal people...lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just now, zskins said: Wait you don't read sports on the Internet like some of us normal people...lol He's wearing an onion on his belt, as was the style at the time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just now, Riggo#44 said: He's wearing an onion on his belt, as was the style at the time. Lol...I do really miss the eighties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 If @PleaseBlitzcomes to you with a business opportunity…RUN AWAY! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Let's face it. We've been spoiled as Nationals fans ever since the Expos moved to DC in 2005. At first we were simply happy to have major league baseball back in DC after being gone for decades. We got to go to RFK stadium, the beloved if dumpy site of past glory in another sport and home of the old Washington Senators. And remember that first year the team, plucky underdogs, actually flirted with first place right up until the All-Star break. We were content in the lean early years - we finally, at long last, had baseball back. I was there for the inaugural game at new Nats Park in 2008 and saw Ryan Zimmerman - remember him? - christen it with a game winning walk-off homer. The future looked bright. And it was. We hit the draft jackpot with generational talents Strasburg in 2009 and Harper in 2010. And signing Jayson Werth in 2011 proved "Werth It." The Nats finished first or second in the NL East every season from 2012 to 2019, with four Division titles. And they climbed the mountain in 2019 with the World Series title. So now we get to experience what every other major league city goes through at some point - the rebuild. It changes how seasons play out for fans and how we watch and follow our team. We look toward future success and what players will help you get there. We know the present may be filled with futility, but are looking for the promise of tomorrow. Some people say DC isn't a real baseball town. (**** you Peter Angelos.) This next year or two may test that theory. I'll be all in. Spring training 2022 will be a real scouting adventure to see who all these new faces are. It really was sad reading the paper this morning. But here we go. Time to rebuild. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: If @PleaseBlitzcomes to you with a business opportunity…RUN AWAY! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: BAAAAHHHHH LOSE MONEY FOR MY ENJOYMENT ****ING SELFISH ASSHOLES! And no, you don't get it. Your whining is childish, idiotic, and complete drug-induced fantasy. It's not happening with any team. NO YOU DONT GET IT! It’s ok Riggo, I know you are still working through the 5 stages of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 @Riggo#44 I think you need to change the title to Start Of A New Era instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: If @PleaseBlitzcomes to you with a business opportunity…RUN AWAY! Raise your hand if you have actually given business advice to a billionaire and been paid for it. 🙋♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, bearrock said: I'm not aware of any team doing deferred contracts to their extent for every big contracts like the Nats do. 6 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Open a browser. Type in www.google.com. Search "baseball deferred contracts" In 10 seconds I found several deferred contracts for the Angels, Mets, Reds, Red Sox, Brewers, Tigers, Braves, Cardinals... Deferred payments reduces the lux tax hit. The Nationals used this money to win a title. Dip, duck, dive, dodge the issue--the Lerners operate exactly how you say they should operate. Nats have major portions of the contract deferred in every single one of their big contracts and deferred many years out into the future. I can't remember the last big contract they gave out without a deferral. I didn't say no other team does deferred contracts, but no one does as much as the Nats do (O's and Mets might come close. Wanna be in their company?). They are right about there for 6th market size. When you factor in the aggressive deferment, they don't spend like the sixth largest market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: Raise your hand if you have actually given business advice to a billionaire and been paid for it. 🙋♂️ I don’t think a rub and tug counts as business advice. 👀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, -JB- said: Well, they didn’t sniff it last year and were coming apart at the seams this year. Josiah Gray is the 21st prospect in all of baseball & Ruiz is #43. Couldn’t ask for a better haul. Sounds like a good haul for Trea Turner, a top 3 SS in the majors with a year of team control. I guess a future reliever with a 4.25 ERA in AA and a 25 year old OF who strikes out 30% of the time in AA will have to be the compensation for Max Scherzer? Maybe someday I won't resent this deal. Right now, let's just say it doesn't look enticing after sacrificing two staples of the franchise. It's the kind of deal a team strikes when they are out of money and need to do something. The deal we got for Hudson looks a lot better. I'm shocked we pulled the Padres' #9 prospect for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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