petey hodge

Does Doctson even care?

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2 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

That's fine if you're willing to wait until 2020-2021 for them to translate into a Pro.  It takes 2 full years as the norm for NFL WRs to breakout. That's a statistical fact, year on year, league wide.  From time to time you'll get a top WR that will have 1 good season in year 2, but just like Antonio Brown, he dropped off in year 3 before his true breakout.  That's why it makes no sense to not pick up his 5th year option.  It costs you nothing and you can cut him if he doesn't breakout this year.  Dumb move.

 

No it's not dumb maybe it will light a fire under his butt. It's not like they can't resign him and I doubt it would be for more than 10 million a year. 

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2 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

That's fine if you're willing to wait until 2020-2021 for them to translate into a Pro.  It takes 2 full years as the norm for NFL WRs to breakout. That's a statistical fact, year on year, league wide.  From time to time you'll get a top WR that will have 1 good season in year 2, but just like Antonio Brown, he dropped off in year 3 before his true breakout.  That's why it makes no sense to not pick up his 5th year option.  It costs you nothing and you can cut him if he doesn't breakout this year.  Dumb move.

 

Or maybe they've got an eye on someone else.  Maybe the FO stopped playing checkers and decided to play chess.

 

Guess we'll find out.  

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2 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

No it's not dumb maybe it will light a fire under his butt. It's not like they can't resign him and I doubt it would be for more than 10 million a year. 

No you're wrong.

If he has a breakout year then he'll be in the top 20 and all you have to do is look up the salaries. You could have had him for less then 10M to see if he can repeat his performance before you pay him a LTD.

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Cam Sims will be our no.1 wide receiver, watch this space.

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4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Or maybe they've got an eye on someone else.  Maybe the FO stopped playing checkers and decided to play chess.

 

Guess we'll find out.  

Ok, but the point is that if you're going to expect to draft a WR then you have to be able to be patient and develop them.  Skins are not playing chess with the WR position as per their checkered past.  The two draft picks are legit and maybe it only takes them two years to breakout.  But that's not going to help much right now...so you have a guy that breaks out in his third full year historically and you want to gamble.  You could cut him with less risk and have control of his contract.  It's not the smartest move.

Just now, bazz said:

Cam Sims will be our no.1 wide receiver, watch this space.

I like Cam.  Let's hope he takes a leap forward.

I am not in love with Doctson.  He pisses me off.  But that still doesn't justify the dumbest of moves to not pick up his option for free.  That's such an advantage to the team who risks the first round pick.  It's only winning scenario for a guy who doesn't produce right away and they pass on it...doesn't make sense.

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2 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Ok, but the point is that if you're going to expect to draft a WR then you have to be able to be patient and develop them.  Skins are not playing chess with the WR position as per their checkered past.  The two draft picks are legit and maybe it only takes them two years to breakout.  But that's not going to help much right now...so you have a guy that breaks out in his third full year historically and you want to gamble.  You could cut him with less risk and have control of his contract.  It's not the smartest move.

I like Cam.  Let's hope he takes a leap forward.

 

I meant they might pick up someone via FA or trade.  

 

Anyway, I'm not going to miss Doctson.  Time to get some fresh blood in here.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

No you're wrong.

If he has a breakout year then he'll be in the top 20 and all you have to do is look up the salaries. You could have had him for less then 10M to see if he can repeat his performance before you pay him a LTD.

 

Well considering he's always hurt and that 10 million would be guaranteed if he got hurt. I go with the Skins on this one and say your wrong. Worst case scenario you tag him for 12 to 13 million. That's if he goes off.

 

I'm going to guess he doesn't and will probably be hurt half the year again. I hope he plays lights out. You want the Skins to pickup his fifth year option, because it takes 3 years or so for a WR to really shine.

 

Well not all WRs are good after there 3rd year and just because others have been doesn't mean he will. Has nothing to do with JD. Again they can always resign him and I'm okay with them taking this risk. 

Edited by desertbeagle85

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21 hours ago, TheShredder said:

 

Fifth-year options are guaranteed for injury only between May 3 and the start of the following league year. As such, they’re not entirely risk-free, but as long as the player remains healthy............

 

Why the hell would we even risk this. Think we'll have enough dead money from Alex Smith's deal to have even thought twice about this. 

 

Thank God we've passed over the option.

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5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Thank God we've passed over the option.

They have until Friday to exercise the option. 

The injury risk probably isn't worth the money if they've already come to the conclusion that they're moving on. 

He's going to ball out this year if he wants a second contract.  They'll get 1 year of production from a first rounder. That's a fail.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2019 at 10:24 AM, goskins10 said:

 

If I were the Skins I would pick up his 5th year option. If he takes that next step, great! Then you have control over his contract. But if he is not progressing and taking a major role then I would sit him with the intention of releasing him at years end. They can't do that if he is injured. Sounds kind of cold but it's a business. You either produce or you are out. 

I wonder if the AS situation played a factor in their decision making.  Just like we assume that we can just plan to bench doctson in October and then he could definitely pass his spring physical, no one thought Alex Smith was going to have a career-ending injury.  And even though that is a lot larger in scope, they probably don't want a repeat of the feeling where a big chunk of cap space is going to little or nothing.  I know this is a very slim chance of happening, and AS was just dumb luck, but if you don't have much faith in him living up to the contract, why take any risk.

 

But good points have been made on both sides.  I don't have a strong feeling either direction.  I'm leaning towards agreeing with the decision to not pick up the option.  There is a sound argument to pick it up, I get what you guys are saying, but with it potentially lighting a fire under him, avoiding the risk of injury, knowing we can still re-sign him, and still having the option to retain his rights by tagging him (16.7 mil instead of the 10.1 option) if he does break out, I think the skins made the right call.  And not only does it light a fire under doctson, but hopefully the logjam we have at the back end of the WRs improves, and Davis / Sims / Quinn and the rookies smell blood in the water with a potential roster spot opening in the near future.

15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Why the hell would we even risk this. Think we'll have enough dead money from Alex Smith's deal to have even thought twice about this. 

 

Thank God we've passed over the option.

You beat me to it.  I think the AS situation being fresh in everyone's mind and currently handcuffing the Redskins options just cost doctson some major coin.  

Edited by KillBill26

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Damm right its an easy call.

 

The culture at Redskins park has to change, players need to be made accountable for.

 

We can not tolerate mediocrity, players need to be made aware that if they are not going to live up to their standards they will have to face the consequences. Docston was in the building way to long, the careless attitude and sub-standard football is like a cancer that spreads through the team. 

 

I like this move, it was evident towards the end of the season that we needed a massive clean up because our attitude stunk.

 

Plus it isnt that hard to have a receiver make up Docstons numbers, he done f*ck all!

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

They have until Friday to exercise the option. 

The injury risk probably isn't worth the money if they've already come to the conclusion that they're moving on. 

He's going to ball out this year if he wants a second contract.  They'll get 1 year of production from a first rounder. That's a fail.

 

Lol I love how not doing the 5th year option means he's gone after this year. So does that mean all the other players on the last year of there contract can't resign? I mean this 5th year option, is only for 1st Rd rookies. It's not like they can't resign him if he proves himself

 

Your not on the practice field or in the film room. All you can see is his play which isn't very good. With that being said maybe the team doesn't see the work that needs to be put in behind closed doors. So why reward a guy that has been hurt and not very productive?

 

I'd much rather have a team that wants you to prove yourself instead of one that just hands over money for average to below average play. 

Edited by desertbeagle85

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2 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Well considering he's always hurt and that 10 million would be guaranteed if he got hurt. I go with the Skins on this one and say your wrong. Worst case scenario you tag him for 12 to 13 million. That's if he goes off.

 

I'm going to guess he doesn't and will probably be hurt half the year again. I hope he plays lights out. You want the Skins to pickup his fifth year option, because it takes 3 years or so for a WR to really shine.

 

Well not all WRs are good after there 3rd year and just because others have been doesn't mean he will. Has nothing to do with JD. Again they can always resign him and I'm okay with them taking this risk. 

Again, when was he hurt? He spent one season on IR, what were the other times he was hurt?

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1 hour ago, desertbeagle85 said:

one that just hands over money for average to below average play. 

Jason Taylor says hi .

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This thread can easily be renamed Do the Redskins even care?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Jason Taylor says hi .

 

How can you even compare those 2? So a proven vet compared to a 3 year player that hasn't done anything in the NFL. 

 

I mean I personally don't like Snyder and I don't like the signing of washed up players. To many players to list off, but this has nothing to do with those players. 

 

To be fair to Snyder it's been awhile since he's done that. 

 

 

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

Again, when was he hurt? He spent one season on IR, what were the other times he was hurt?

 

Didn't he have a hell injury at the start of last year that stayed with him for most of the year?

Edited by desertbeagle85

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5 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

Didn't he have a hell injury at the start of last year that stayed with him for most of the year?

He was out for one game. if he was playing injured the whole season, this is the first I've heard it.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

He was out for one game. if he was playing injured the whole season, this is the first I've heard it.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/10/josh-doctson-could-be-bothered-heel-injury-rest-se

 

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/5/josh-doctson-misses-third-straight-practice-heel-i

Edited by desertbeagle85

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1 hour ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

How can you even compare those 2? So a proven vet compared to a 3 year player that hasn't done anything in the NFL. 

 

I mean I personally don't like Snyder and I don't like the signing of washed up players. To many players to list off, but this has nothing to do with those players. 

 

To be fair to Snyder it's been awhile since he's done that. 

 

 

 

Didn't he have a hell injury at the start of last year that stayed with him for most of the year?

A proven vet who openly admitted to cashing out on sub par play dosent quailify?

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3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

A proven vet who openly admitted to cashing out on sub par play dosent quailify?

 

No it doesn't 

 

When did he admit to that? After his career was over. Sounds like a excuse to me as to why he sucked his last few years. Either way Jason Taylor hall of fame. Josh Doctson not so much. 

 

Just because he didn't play well here doesn't make those two players even close to comparable. 

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Posted (edited)

First year IR aside, This is effectively Docston 's 3rd year -- traditionally when WRs break through or show you how low or how high their ceiling is.  So, WITH OPTION, if Docston flamed out, Skins could always let him walk and not be on the hook for his 5th year.

 

Assuming the Skins can finally get some value out of Richardson (or another WR, or decent TE help) I think Doctson is going to have a good year.  But then I also think the Skins will probably have to let him leave, because,without the option, they can't afford Docston's services at free-market prices.

 

IMHO, a dumb move by the Skins FO.  I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce was behind this one.  Weird how everyone is willing to gamble on other players' injured status -- and then get so risk-averse about Doctson's possible future injuries.

 

My point :  Skins FO "dumble-Bruced" this decision.

Edited by Wyvern

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