Springfield Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Like that silly option, pistol bs is going to work against the Browns defense. Like they’ll be able to use the field the same way with closer hash marks. Lets not be silly here. These are children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: 2011 Alabama. But probably others too. Were they all stars or pro bowlers? Quote What I'm saying is that a team full of bad NFL players, with no legit Pro Bowlers, could get beaten by a college team with a dozen future Pro Bowlers, because the talent of that dozen would make up for weaknesses elsewhere. When I say "future Pro Bowlers" that means they are guys that dominated in college, and then went to the NFL and dominated there too. Lets stay specific to help your point and mine: 2011 Alabama vs 2017 Cleveland How many players from that Alabama team became oro bowlers? How many from that team got drafted? You find that, ill look tk see how many of those players from the 2017 team are still in the NFL. Keep in mind the 2017 Browns defense from points was 32, but 14th in yards. That sounds like a team with a lot of turnovers putting defense in bad spots over and over again rather then a historically bad defense. Quote My argument is that Alabama football has enough team speed to beat the 2017 Cleveland Browns, given that they sent at least 30 guys to the NFL. Scheme is an interesting argument. Can you specifically name anyone on the Browns that is significantly faster than his counterpart at Alabama? People keep acting like that Browns team was an average NFL team with average talent. They weren't. Browns had a terrible QB, nothing matters when that happens . Id have to look at the 40 times of their entire roster to compare to the 2011 Alabama roster, you shouldn't make that claim without proving it. Most players that don't get in the NFL have bad 40 times. Quote 2011 Alabama had 13 first rounders on it. They weren't all seniors at the same time. That goes back to my first question, were they all stars or pro bowlers? Does that make up for the number of players on that team that can't make an NFL roster? How does that offensive roster knowing what we know now about Lacey and Trent Richardson look like against a Greg Williams defense? https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/2011-roster.html Quote Again, we are not talking about the average NFL team versus an average college team. We are talking about a historically bad NFL team versus a historically talented college team. That 2011 Alabama team is historically talented by measure of college football. I just looked at the roster, that offense wouldn't stand a chance, you should pick a different one, that winless lions team was worse then that winless browns team anyway. Quote This would be significant advantage for sure. Again, the Brown's didn't seem to have NFL-average preparation or scheming, and their QB and best defensive player were both rookies. The thing is Alabama is not a balanced offense, its run dominant with a pro style scheme that leans on its talent to overwhelm teams. https://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/05/22382/an-xs-and-os-look-around-college-football-the-alabama-crimson-tide-offense Browns stop the run, that offense goes nowhere. If Alabama tries to force the Browns into their game, it will be a battle of attrition at best with professional athletes vs college players who arent professionals yet. Hue Jackson doesn't have to be Belichek to figure out that teams weakness and come at it in a way none of them have ever had to see before. Browns had 7th ranked run defense that year, that's a matchup nightmare by itself considering what the Alabama offensive philosophy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Just now, PleaseBlitz said: By my reasoning, a redshirt college freshman (who eventually becomes a pro-bowler) is probably good enough to make the league as a redshirt freshman, yes. This version of Marcell Darius was good enough to terrorize NFL offensive lineman? https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2008/marcel-dareus-14479 If you say so. 3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: On absolutely. But we aren't comparing 2011 Julio with 2013 Julio. We are comparing 2011 Julio with any-year Ricardo Louis. Again, I'll take 2011 Julio. That's fair. 3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: It's enough to play one game. Ok, so Alabama is going to line up with three offensive lineman. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said: This version of Marcell Darius was good enough to terrorize NFL offensive lineman? https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2008/marcel-dareus-14479 Dareus was a college senior, not high school senior, in 2011. That's a pretty weak argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Dareus was a college senior, not high school senior, in 2011. That's a pretty weak argument. Its very fair because you feel that 2008 Dareus is the same player as 2010 Dareus, who is the same player as 2018 Dareus. That is the entire premise of your post. (Dareus was listed at 308 in 2010. Today he is listed at 330) Also, I need you to explain how Alabama is going to play with three offensive linemen against the Browns? (edit, did a recount: They had five olineman make that team. I missed Barrett Jones who had a cup of coffee at center and Mike Johnson at guard, so they have an Oline that isnt good and has obvious holes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Colony Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Dammit! I meant to vote "no". Put me in the solid NO camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, First Colony said: Dammit! I meant to vote "no". Put me in the solid NO camp. @PleaseBlitz " You're alone." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Were they all stars or pro bowlers? The Browns? Neither. 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Lets stay specific to help your point and mine: 2011 Alabama vs 2017 Cleveland How many players from that Alabama team became oro bowlers? How many from that team got drafted? You find that, ill look tk see how many of those players from the 2017 team are still in the NFL. 30 drafted, 8 pro bowlers. 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Keep in mind the 2017 Browns defense from points was 32, but 14th in yards. That sounds like a team with a lot of turnovers putting defense in bad spots over and over again rather then a historically bad defense. Sounds like a team getting the clock run out on it to me. 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Browns had a terrible QB, nothing matters when that happens . Id have to look at the 40 times of their entire roster to compare to the 2011 Alabama roster, you shouldn't make that claim without proving it. Most players that don't get in the NFL have bad 40 times. They did have a terrible QB, which is a big part of why I think they'd lose. I wasn't the first one to claim that one team or the other had more team speed. Practically everyone in this thread has said every NFL team has more speed than every college team. I'm saying people shouldn't just say that without backing it up. 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: That goes back to my first question, were they all stars or pro bowlers? Does that make up for the number of players on that team that can't make an NFL roster? How does that offensive roster knowing what we know now about Lacey and Trent Richardson look like against a Greg Williams defense? https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/2011-roster.html Eddie Lacy was good enough (in the NFL) at one point to make a pro bowl. Then he got fat. But the talent was there when he was a young player. 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: That 2011 Alabama team is historically talented by measure of college football. I just looked at the roster, that offense wouldn't stand a chance, you should pick a different one, that winless lions team was worse then that winless browns team anyway. The thing is Alabama is not a balanced offense, its run dominant with a pro style scheme that leans on its talent to overwhelm teams. https://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/05/22382/an-xs-and-os-look-around-college-football-the-alabama-crimson-tide-offense Yea, it's always such a bad idea to lean on your overwhelming talent, right? And did you forget that this team had Julio Jones? 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Browns stop the run, that offense goes nowhere. If Alabama tries to force the Browns into their game, it will be a battle of attrition at best with professional athletes vs college players who arent professionals yet. Hue Jackson doesn't have to be Belichek to figure out that teams weakness and come at it in a way none of them have ever had to see before. Browns had 7th ranked run defense that year, that's a matchup nightmare by itself considering what the Alabama offensive philosophy is. Well, they didn't get into a lot of games where the opposing team needed to move the ball a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Fun fact, FWIW, a college all-star team beat Vince Lombardi's championship Packers once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Its very fair because you feel that 2008 Dareus is the same player as 2010 Dareus, who is the same player as 2018 Dareus. That is the entire premise of your post. (Dareus was listed at 308 in 2010. Today he is listed at 330) I think you are having some reading comprehension issues. Quote Also, I need you to explain how Alabama is going to play with three offensive linemen against the Browns? (edit, did a recount: They had five olineman make that team. I missed Barrett Jones who had a cup of coffee at center and Mike Johnson at guard, so they have an Oline that isnt good and has obvious holes) So, you answered your own question? Good then. Of course, we are comparing them to J.C. Tretter, 4th rounder out of Cornell and Spencer Drango, 5th rounder (and rookie in 2017) from Baylor who no longer plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Are we talking chance as in 50/50 or some reasonable facsimile or like 1 out of a 100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Not only could the best college team not beat the worst NFL team, a college all star team wouldn’t beat the worst NFL team. It’s silly to think otherwise. edit: They would get their ****ing asses kicked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I think you are having some reading comprehension issues. I am reading what you said. You said a college redshirt freshman who became a pro bowler is good enough to make an NFL roster at that age. And looking again, Alabama only has one WR that made an opening day roster. (Julio Jones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: I am reading what you said. You said a college redshirt freshman who became a pro bowler is good enough to make an NFL roster at that age. And looking again, Alabama only has one WR that made an opening day roster. (Julio Jones) At no point did i say, or say anything that could reasonable be confused with "I feel that 2008 Dareus is the same player as 2010 Dareus, who is the same player as 2018 Dareus." 5 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Not only could the best college team not beat the worst NFL team, a college all star team wouldn’t beat the worst NFL team. It’s silly to think otherwise. This is crazy talk. 8 minutes ago, bearrock said: Are we talking chance as in 50/50 or some reasonable facsimile or like 1 out of a 100? The latter. "Could" is what the poll says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 @Renegade7 beat me to it, but I was going to say that the 2017 Browns defense was ranked 14th overall (yards) and on offense they were ranked 24th in yards per game. They have an above average defense and an offense that was better than 8 other teams. Yes, winning is all that matters at the end of the day. Still, wouldn't even be close imo. So right now, the 2018 Tide players matched up against the 2017 Browns............. Only one OL is projected to go pro next year, meaning the other four are not fully developed, that one player is Jonah Williams OT, first in his position rank. Even though he plays LT, lets assume they start Williams on the right side to match up against Miles Garret. Bama offense LT - Jedrick Willis LG - Lester Cotton (who? lol) C - Ross Pierschbacher RG - Alex Leatherwood RT - Jonah Williams QB - Tagovailoa/Hurts RB - Damien Harris TE - Irv Smith/Hale Hentges Browns Defense LE - Ogbah DT - Cooley DT - Medger RE - Garrett MIKE - Schobert WIL- Kirksey SAM - Collins Sr. No point in even listing WRs or DBs, because the Browns front 7 would have a field day with that o-line, even with TEs and RBs blocking and max protect. Not to mention, it doesn't matter where they play their future pro OT, all the Browns have to do is flip Garrett to the other side, that's assuming that Williams could even block him to begin with, which I'm being very generous about that even happening. Their QB would be exposed to so many blitzes, coverages he's never seen before he wouldn't know what hit him. Bloodbath........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Not only could the best college team not beat the worst NFL team, a college all star team wouldn’t beat the worst NFL team. It’s silly to think otherwise. edit: They would get their ****ing asses kicked! http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/55399888/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 39 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: a redshirt college freshman (who eventually becomes a pro-bowler like CJ Mosley, Haha Clinton Dix, Amari Cooper and Landon Collins) is probably good enough to make the league as a redshirt freshman, yes and FYI, none of those guys were ever redshirt freshman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: The Browns? Neither. Browns did have a pro bowler in 2011, it was one if their OLBs. Quote 30 drafted, 8 pro bowlers. K, ill look to see how many if them are still in the NFL along with the 2011 roster later (unless you have time to) Quote Sounds like a team getting the clock run out on it to me. They were second in yards per attempt in run defense. Quote They did have a terrible QB, which is a big part of why I think they'd lose. I might buy McCarron in 2011 being better the. 2017 Kizer, i don't buy a college defensive coordinator outscheming an NFL offensive coordinator (or all the college players being able to keep up with a kitchen sink attack or team full of players on average bigger and faster then them) Quote I wasn't the first one to claim that one team or the other had more team speed. Practically everyone in this thread has said every NFL team has more speed than every college team. I'm saying people shouldn't just say that without backing it up. I mean, if we have to... That's orerry common knowledge, its the first thing every rookie comments on, how much faster the NFL is then college, so much yiu can get away with in college you canr against any pro team. You seriously want a list of 40 times to make that point? Quote Eddie Lacy was good enough (in the NFL) at one point to make a pro bowl. Then he got fat. But the talent was there when he was a young player. Lacey is an interesting point, how does 2011 Lacey do? What the hell happened to Trent Richardson anyway? If Browns are 7th against the run, you really think any college team can run on them with any consistent success? Quote Yea, it's always such a bad idea to lean on your overwhelming talent, right? And did you forget that this team had Julio Jones? He's not on the roster i posted for that year, he was drafted right before the 2011 Alabama season. Quote Well, they didn't get into a lot of games where the opposing team needed to move the ball a whole lot. Again, 2nd overall yards per rush defense. That run game is going nowhere and withojt any passing threats, neither is Alabama's passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: The latter. "Could" is what the poll says. I'm gonna go with a best college team having a possibility then. No question that Browns are the better team in my mind (although, holy cow their QBs sucked last year), but I would say their best player was Myles Garrett, who was only in his second year last year. I feel like on one hand that shows that elite college players are close enough to the NFL level to make a good impact immediately (Garrett having 7-8 sacks in despite missing a lot of games due to injury). Jonathan Allen also made immediate impact too. And it also speaks to the total crapola that was the Browns last season. If someone forced me to bet on one game between them I would bet on the Browns, but if the bet is could the college team steal one game out of a 100 or 1000 or whatever. I think I would go with Bama stealing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, justice98 said: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/55399888/ Yeah, 1963. That's not what would happen today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 @Dont Taze Me Bro Mind doing the depth chart for the 2010 Alabama team, noting class year and whether they are a future pro bowler (or potential HOF candidate)? You can note the pro bowlers for the Browns too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I think the 2001 Miami Hurricanes would have competed. Portis, Davenport, Willis McGahee, Frank Gore, Andre Johnson, Jeremy Shockey, Kellen Winslow, Jeremy McDougle, Bryant McKinnie, Vince Wilfork, William Joseph, Jonathan Vilma, Philip Buchannon, Ed Reed, Michael Rumph, Antrel Rolle, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Yeah, 1963. That's not what would happen today. But that wasnt the question presented. The question was "could" they, not "would" they. It's not likely, but the idea that's it's inconceivable and there's no chance in hell doesnt hold up when it's happened before. You make it sound like it would be 400-0. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I dont think it would happen often. But if the best College team played the worst NFL team (not necessarily worst record) each year, then we'd see a handful of college teams win over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Besides the talent discrepancy, I think the secondary on the college team would get shredded, Its rare you have a CB be a day one starter in the NFL. Normally they start as a #2 take a year or two of adjustment. In the same way, the QBs will most likely get fooled by NFL defensive schemes, and throw alot of picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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