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Renegade7

Has FO given Jay a Playoff Roster for 2018???

Has FO given Jay a Playoff Roster for 2018???  

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  1. 1. Has FO given Jay a Playoff Roster for 2018???



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9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm gonna throw something out there and let me know what ya'll think:  the schedule is hard, but full of potential for having tie breakers.  Like I mentioned, NFC South sent 3 teams to the playoffs last year, we play all of them this year.

That's a good point I hadn't thought of.  And I feel like with this roster, on our good days, we can beat anybody.  So we could win some of those games and give us an advantage.

 

But it's the Redskins we are talking about, so losing games against bad teams is inevitable.  We always give away several very winnable games against inferior opponents.  The first two weeks are two opponents I feel we are better than.  Sad to say September games are must wins, but they may be.

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Interesting to see some negative opinions on the roster. I was impressed with both Jay as a coach last year and the front office for giving us a roster that could go 500,if not better. We had injuries like crazy and still came out to play. And I don't just mean the close games thing as most nfl games are close. But look at the penalties. We were ranked 6th (the good way) in penalties per game with 5.8. That's amazing with all the backups and guys off the street playing. 

 

Penalties and turnovers keep drives alive and keep you in games. We haven't had the all pro players come out yet but we're not putting out a bunch of ex Florida shouldn't be nflers either. 

 

We have a good roster and now it's about situational football, how do we do on third down, in the red zone, in 2 min drills, to run the clock out, with turnovers, penalties, etc. Those aren't all Gruden's strengths but he has shown he can do well in a kid of those areas so I'm inspired. 

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19 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I was watching the Washington Post thread hoping conversation would steer towards this question, but it looks more related to owning jerseys or not.  Even the W/L Prediction and Evaluating Jay thread really doesn't do this question justice.  The reason why is I believe everyone's frustration wants peoples heads to roll if we don't make the playoffs regardless of the reason.

 

So I'm gonna try to come at this from a different perspective because I already see this season coming a mile away.  Front Office in my opinion has NOT given Jay a roster that should be expected to be in the playoffs.  You look at the other NFC powers that are expected to win their divisions and what's going on terms potential Wild Card teams like Green Bay, San Francisco, and Carolina, I don't feel we have anything special about us to put us in the convo with the Vikings and Rams now really able to seperate ourselves from the last three teams I mentioned.  We're going to have a lot of games this year that are going to have tie-breaker implications, not just regular NFC games.  It will be a double whammy if we lose to several of the teams we'll be competing for a Wild Card with.

 

Again, this is first time in my adult life that I don't see anything possible special about this team heading into the regular season.  No waiting to see what Fun and Gun can do, no hoping for return to glory with Gibbs return, no how far can Griffin or Cousins take us.  Given the number of injuries we had last year on offense, I feel we did nothing to address that, bringing back guys on the o-line for starting and depth that had injury issues last year, too.  As happy as I am to have AP, we seriously have to temper our expectations with that, especially since he's coming off a knee injury last year himself.  And don't even get me started on what the Front Office did to our Corner depth.  I'm terrified it will negate what should be one of the best Front Sevens in the NFL, period.

 

Because of this, even if we miss the playoffs, I don't want Jay gone, I want Bruce gone.  It was his idea to play chicken with Cousins and no doubt in my mind he had the final say, no Doug Williams, on trading for Alex Smith and letting Cousins walk instead of finding someway to flip Cousins for a draft pick and draft our QB of the future.  Bruce has forced us into win now mode with a roster that can't win now, that's not Jay's fault.  If we come out here looking unprepared for games and we get the "we weren't ready" when the games are typically the same day every week, sure, can him.  But despite me seeing this being a 10-6 team, I can very easily see us getting overwhelmed by more talented teams, especially if the injuries start piling up.

 

So odds are, if we don't make the playoffs, Bruce should be held accountable as I expect it to be his doing and personnel decisions if we miss the playoffs, especially if we get riddled with injures again, Jay has no final say on play acquisition.  I like his offense, it can get people open, I don't want to press the reset button on that unless we have to.  I think Bruce is halfway out the door anyway, honestly, far moreso then Jay is.

 

So ya, I don't think its right to say Jay has what he needs to compete for a playoff spot, we're asking people to overachieve here in too many key positions.  If he does get a playoff berth, he should get all the credit in the world for it.  But that's just my opinion.

 

This is NOT a will we make the playoffs thread, its a "do we have what we need to make the playoffs" thread.  Again, I say "no".

 

Agree 100%.  Now that said a team can overachieve and make it and I expect Jay to have them ready to compete every week.  I was impressed with how they played hard throughout 2017 despite the injuries, a sign of good coaching.

15 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Interesting to see some negative opinions on the roster. I was impressed with both Jay as a coach last year and the front office for giving us a roster that could go 500,if not better. We had injuries like crazy and still came out to play. And I don't just mean the close games thing as most nfl games are close. But look at the penalties. We were ranked 6th (the good way) in penalties per game with 5.8. That's amazing with all the backups and guys off the street playing. 

 

Penalties and turnovers keep drives alive and keep you in games. We haven't had the all pro players come out yet but we're not putting out a bunch of ex Florida shouldn't be nflers either. 

 

We have a good roster and now it's about situational football, how do we do on third down, in the red zone, in 2 min drills, to run the clock out, with turnovers, penalties, etc. Those aren't all Gruden's strengths but he has shown he can do well in a kid of those areas so I'm inspired. 

 

Nice post, I agree with you.  I didn't know the team was 6th least in penalties, that is tremendous and doubly so since we played so many backups last year as you point out.

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19 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

You look at the other NFC powers that are expected to win their divisions and what's going on terms potential Wild Card teams like Green Bay, San Francisco, and Carolina, I don't feel we have anything special about us to put us in the convo with the Vikings and Rams now really able to seperate ourselves

 

While I believe it takes a bit of a faith leap, I disagree that this roster isn't playoff worthy. 

 

That said, and as has been said many times over, the many key players need to stay healthy, for the most part. Some questionable areas, like WR and CB, will have to step up and prove their worth. As has also been suggested, the conference, division, and schedule is a nasty test ahead.

 

Things could really go 7 wins or 11 wins. Much just revolves around whether you are a cautious skeptic, or an aggressive believer. The health of the players, the way the ball bounces, and the progression of young, less provens.. all completely out of our hands.

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43 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

While I believe it takes a bit of a faith leap, I disagree that this roster isn't playoff worthy. 

 

That said, and as has been said many times over, the many key players need to stay healthy, for the most part. Some questionable areas, like WR and CB, will have to step up and prove their worth. As has also been suggested, the conference, division, and schedule is a nasty test ahead.

 

Things could really go 7 wins or 11 wins. Much just revolves around whether you are a cautious skeptic, or an aggressive believer. The health of the players, the way the ball bounces, and the progression of young, less provens.. all completely out of our hands.

 

That's the thing, I'm not saying we can't go to the playoffs (I hope no one takes it that way), but if this was really a playoff roster and not a fringe one that needs things to go our way we aren't having this conversation.

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

Interesting to see some negative opinions on the roster. I was impressed with both Jay as a coach last year and the front office for giving us a roster that could go 500,if not better. We had injuries like crazy and still came out to play. And I don't just mean the close games thing as most nfl games are close. But look at the penalties. We were ranked 6th (the good way) in penalties per game with 5.8. That's amazing with all the backups and guys off the street playing. 

 

Penalties and turnovers keep drives alive and keep you in games. We haven't had the all pro players come out yet but we're not putting out a bunch of ex Florida shouldn't be nflers either. 

 

We have a good roster and now it's about situational football, how do we do on third down, in the red zone, in 2 min drills, to run the clock out, with turnovers, penalties, etc. Those aren't all Gruden's strengths but he has shown he can do well in a kid of those areas so I'm inspired. 

 

This is more an arguement to keep Gruden (which I agree with and want) then saying he has what he needs enough to say if we don't make the playoffs its entirely his fault (which I don't agree with, and my main point of this thread).  I also feel we took a step back letting two 1000 yd receivers leave and not replacing that production.  Same way I'm worried what we did to our corner depth is going to backfire as well.  If it works out, thank God, but smart, mediocre football is like 8-9 wins, that's not going to get us a berth this year. We need guys to play to their potential at WR and guys to stay healthy on the o-line especially. The door is wide open for them to prove they are better then they look on paper based on past production.

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I see the Skins as the 2nd best team in the NFC East....Dallas and NYG both have holes bigger than we do. The Eagles will be good because of their great defense but teams should start to figure out their offense this year, including us. With good health, and needed good play by the secondary, the Skins do have a playoff roster, especially if AP holds up and runs well.

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2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

That's the thing, I'm not saying we can't go to the playoffs (I hope no one takes it that way), but if this was really a playoff roster and not a fringe one that needs things to go our way we aren't having this conversation.

 

So, you don't feel the other (better) teams need things to go their way too? I think all teams need things to go their way. They typically need their top players healthy and available. They typically need to limit turnovers while collecting some. 

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2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

This is more an arguement to keep Gruden (which I agree with and want) then saying he has what he needs enough to say if we don't make the playoffs its entirely his fault (which I don't agree with, and my main point of this thread).  I also feel we took a step back letting two 1000 yd receivers leave and not replacing that production.  Same way I'm worried what we did to our corner depth is going to backfire as well.  If it works out, thank God, but smart, mediocre football is like 8-9 wins, that's not going to get us a berth this year. We need guys to play to their potential at WR and guys to stay healthy on the o-line especially. The door is wide open for them to prove they are better then they look on paper based on past production.

 

Yeah, I definitely agree that its a reason to keep Gruden. But it also raises two questions: 

 - do you disagree with the FO's youth movement, in particular the strategy to build, develop and keep our own. 

 - do you disagree with the FO's (seemingly lately) priority to spend higher resources towards the front of the defense instead of the back? 

 

@Skinsinparadise loves to say that the FO is meh, not absolutely great but not absolutely horrible - in part because they don't take the chances that could get them a blockbuster player. Instead they live (especially in FA) with Bruce's cheapest angle option. <-- my words, not his and I'm not trying to misrepresent his POV so If I'm wrong on that my bad.

 

I have been begging, peading for this team to build through the draft since the mid 90s. And even then it wasn't the plea to simply build through the draft but to build the right way through the draft. I have always (since Gibbs I) seen us as a good to great offense with a horrible to mediocre defense. We couldn't draft superstar defensive players, and the ones we did draft were somewhat one-dimensional. 

 - Champ Bailey - only really a help against the pass

 - Lavar - great against the pass but not really known for his run moves

 - Taylor - may he RIP

 - Landry - great potential and combined with Taylor they were supposed to make teh middle a no fly zone, but thats a pass defense thing

 - Rogers - a pass help

 - Orakop - kinda similar to Lavar

 - Kerrigan - great against the pass, and good against the run but not really the trend setter in that area. 

 

That's just a look at a handful of the defensive picks in the first round. But if I looked throughout the draft we'll see the same thing. Whats even more is that our lower round picks and UDFAs were usually guys who were undersized and could only stay in the league because of their work ethic. Guys like Rock Cartright who I loved but that's not a guy whose jersey is going to be a bestseller. Not saying there's not a place for Rock or Compton, but those were guys with somewhat low ceilings who other teams can exploit when they're in the game. 

 

What we're seeing in this new front office (even with the Cousins loss) is investing top priority money at QB and in the trenches and more willing to sign lower round picks to play at the skill positions. So I have more faith in the potential of 2 first round DTs being able to stop the run than any combo of what we've had in previous years. We can talk about the potential of Guice, but since he's injured I'll say that I would've been happy with almost anybody who could read a block (and was calling for Bibbs to get the nod), but AP - at least early on - will strike fear in a defense and is somebody other teams have to plan for. 

 

One area I question is that our FO seems to be investing heavily in injured players. Alabama guys have a knock on them that their bodies are kinda worn down by how Saben plays them, we've signed players who've slipped in the draft because of injury concerns, and I'll even include Guice in this category because my main fear with him was that he dropped because people were afraid that his knee wasn't fully healed (I remember when RG3 had his ACL tear Andrews said that they fixed things up from a previous tear, or something like that) and it scared me. I would've preferred the option of going with a guy with no injury history, but asking for that means we may have had to change our philosophy and maybe trade up or not trade down or simply pick a guy based on potential and not production. 

 

That said, I think this team has a great set of backups. I'm more confident in the ILB backups than ever beause I feel like Vigil is a legit backup there and played well last year. I never really saw anything from Spaight other than impressive hits after a blown assignment the previous play. I think JHC can have a big year this year and particularly this week covering David Johnso. And I think SDH is the kind of player I wanted at ILB last year. His injuries concern me but I think he's going to be a star. Add that to the DL that everybody's crazy about and we really have potential. 

 

My biggest question marks aren't even the DBs, its the OLBs because I don't know what we're going to get from Anderson and McPhee. So what was a strength for us - pressures on the QB - may become a weakness this year. But I wouldn't call it a weakness because we've kinda traded outside pressure (that a QB can step up to avoid) for inside pressure, which if Allen and Payne are anything like their resume indicates can really cause our defense to be explosive. In the secondary we have some experience (Norman, Dunbar DJ and Nicholson) that makes us respectable and some potential there with young guys who have characteristics you love: Speed in TrAp and Moreau, length in Alexander, and ability to play the slot in Stroman and Johnson. And these are the kinds of guys I like to take risks on because they have the potential to move up the depth chart and demand more playing time. Its not like we took Anderson in the supplimental draft and said "you're the new starting CB" - he's number 6 on the roster. Moreau was the number 5 CB last year and barely saw any plays. Dunbar was the number 3 (depending on how you call it) and saw his plays mostly because of injuries to Norman and Breeland. So I think the concern about our depth here is a bit overstated. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

So, you don't feel the other (better) teams need things to go their way too? I think all teams need things to go their way. They typically need their top players healthy and available. They typically need to limit turnovers while collecting some. 

 

Not as much as we do, no. We can't loose our starting QB and expect to do anything, for example.

 

My answer to the poll question was "I don't know yet", because at best, I think we're a WC team. We are not a top 4 team in the conference, for instance. And we are going to need help just to be a WC team. For us to even have a chance, I think 2 things have to happen

 

1. our WR corp has to be better than they look right now. When you look at what we have, we have Crowder and a bunch of JAGs. Doctson has to get significantly better, and Richardson has to show he is significantly better than a 4th WR on a Seahawks team that is know for running the ball and defense.

 

2. We have to be a much better rushing team than we have been in years.

 

But, do I think this team has a "good' roster? No, not yet. There are way too many question marks concerning CB, FS, WR, RB and do we really have a elite DL, or is it just one on paper, to say with any kind of confidence that this is a playoff roster.

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4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not as much as we do, no. We can't loose our starting QB and expect to do anything, for example.

 

My answer to the poll question was "I don't know yet", because at best, I think we're a WC team. We are not a top 4 team in the conference, for instance. And we are going to need help just to be a WC team. For us to even have a chance, I think 2 things have to happen

I think this is fair.

 

1. our WR corp has to be better than they look right now. When you look at what we have, we have Crowder and a bunch of JAGs. Doctson has to get significantly better, and Richardson has to show he is significantly better than a 4th WR on a Seahawks team that is know for running the ball and defense.

I don't think the WRs have to be excellent. They just need to be competent, and Richardson needs to frighten defenses with his speed. The WR corps as a whole could very well surprise us as very good, even if no true #1. If the TEs come through, this makes not having special WRs all the less critical.

 

2. We have to be a much better rushing team than we have been in years.

True enough. So long as a healthy OL and QB smarts can produce a run game that goes from bottom barrel to middle of the pack.

 

But, do I think this team has a "good' roster? No, not yet. There are way too many question marks concerning CB, FS, WR, RB and do we really have a elite DL, or is it just one on paper, to say with any kind of confidence that this is a playoff roster.

Well like I suggested, this is really all about predictions. We all know there are a lot of question marks and less provens. All we can do as we look toward this future is.. guess the future results. The poll is a bit troublesome, because it include the obvious correct answer of " I don't know yet" as well as predictions of  success or failure. 

 

responding thoughts in bold ^

Additional thought to your first sentence. How many teams can really get through not having their starting QB anyway? Most teams are pretty sunk w/o their starting QB. We actually have a pretty competent backup QB. 

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I'm not allowing myself to be swayed by the off-season hype, but this team has been improving incrementally through the draft (and UDFAs) each season.  I'll grant that I question the FO's decisions on how they handle free agency and still am puzzled over their "logic" in their handling of Cousins.

 

Is the roster at playoff level?  Probably not, because it's either very young, totally new to the system and teammates, or with lots of key players coming off of significant injuries.  However, it's a strong enough roster to be competitive in NFL games and, with some luck, even playoff competitive.  ...But only time will tell.

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31 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

So, you don't feel the other (better) teams need things to go their way too? I think all teams need things to go their way. They typically need their top players healthy and available. They typically need to limit turnovers while collecting some. 

That's not what this is about, I believe a lot of these teams we'll be up against for playoff spots have more talent then us, especially on offense even if everyone stays healthy.  Been saying that for months now, we don't have a wide receiver on the roster that has ever had a 1000 yard season, that doesn't mean we won't get one this year, but dude.

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14 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

responding thoughts in bold ^

Additional thought to your first sentence. How many teams can really get through not having their starting QB anyway? Most teams are pretty sunk w/o their starting QB. We actually have a pretty competent backup QB. 

 

Not many, but really good teams do. Philly did, obviously, but remember when Brady got hurt for the year and the Pats went 11-5? Good teams usually don't have many holes and question marks. I would say that we do. The fact that we are basically a .500 team over the last 3 years says we are not a "good" team. We are consistently average.

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2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not many, but really good teams do. Philly did, obviously, but remember when Brady got hurt for the year and the Pats went 11-5? Good teams usually don't have many holes and question marks. I would say that we do. The fact that we are basically a .500 team over the last 3 years says we are not a "good" team. We are consistently average.

Not to disagree with you - as I agree with many of your takes - being "average" puts you in the position to get lucky.  Whether through "breaks" from limited injuries, avoiding stupid penalties, etc - being "average" (if you get these breaks) can get you to 10 or 11 wins.  Then again, I always take the optimistic "half-full" belief.....  

 

HTTR!!!!

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1 minute ago, jjpomeroy said:

Not to disagree with you - as I agree with many of your takes - being "average" puts you in the position to get lucky.  Whether through "breaks" from limited injuries, avoiding stupid penalties, etc - being "average" (if you get these breaks) can get you to 10 or 11 wins.  Then again, I always take the optimistic "half-full" belief.....  

 

HTTR!!!!

 

I would disagree with this train of though. "Luck" is usually determined by being prepared and creating your own "luck". I like to think of it as preparation meets opportunity. I think that, if we get "lucky" we are a 10 win team, and that is not going to be enough. If we however are "unlucky", I think we are a 6 win team. Looking at our schedule, it's a very tough one on paper. How it pans out obviously, is something we won't know until after the season. But I don't see us winning the division, and I don't think that we are nearly as good as several other teams that will be fighting for a WC berth.

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46 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Yeah, I definitely agree that its a reason to keep Gruden. But it also raises two questions: 

 - do you disagree with the FO's youth movement, in particular the strategy to build, develop and keep our own. 

 - do you disagree with the FO's (seemingly lately) priority to spend higher resources towards the front of the defense instead of the back? 

 

@Skinsinparadise loves to say that the FO is meh, not absolutely great but not absolutely horrible - in part because they don't take the chances that could get them a blockbuster player. Instead they live (especially in FA) with Bruce's cheapest angle option. <-- my words, not his and I'm not trying to misrepresent his POV so If I'm wrong on that my bad.

 

 

 

I agree with focusing on younger players at key positions and the emphasis on the front 7.  I disagree with replacing Cousins with an older QB instead of giving Jay a rookie to develop and work with.  Your window begins and ends with age of your QB more then any other position.

 

  I also do not like the idea of thinking players with injury history are lower cost, high value solutions.  These players have no value on the field when they aren't playing, why my respect for the plan on the oline is torn, there's talent, but even the Ty whos the primary backup has an injury history.

 

I'll do my best not to overreact now to the end of the Green Bay game.

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5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I disagree with replacing Cousins with an older QB instead of giving Jay a rookie to develop and work with.  Your window begins and ends with age of your QB more then any other position.

Not trying to turn this into a Cousins / Smith debate, but my statement was more about after knowing that we;d be losing Cousins we didn't just sit on the position, didn't draft a backup like Tylor, didn't draft a QB and make it a rebuilding year, but we went after a QB who has a comparable resume to Cousins. Its up to debate who the better guy ultimately is, but its not like we ignored the position and brought in some UDFAs to compete for the starting spot. 

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30 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Not trying to turn this into a Cousins / Smith debate, but my statement was more about after knowing that we;d be losing Cousins we didn't just sit on the position, didn't draft a backup like Tylor, didn't draft a QB and make it a rebuilding year, but we went after a QB who has a comparable resume to Cousins. Its up to debate who the better guy ultimately is, but its not like we ignored the position and brought in some UDFAs to compete for the starting spot. 

 

34 is too old for that to match the youth movement talk, that's more like a window.  Instead of building someone into our youth movement, were hoping he doesn't regress in his mid 30s, someone whos not like Brees in that he's so elite that a regressed version is still more then capable starter.

 

I say this with all seriousness because here we asking if we're a playoff team instead of a super bowl contender.  I mean, what's the goal here, making the playoffs? 

 

Will we be a super bowl contender next year?  Doesn't matter because we need to draft a QB after 2019 season anyway, who instead of being a 3-4 year starter by time they take over will be bright green.  Allen gave him a QB, true, with more pressure then necessary.  And ya, we're in shoulda woulda could territory, so ill step back and say I wish Jay got a chance to pick his own guy, what I see in successful movements and rebuilds.

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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

I would disagree with this train of though. "Luck" is usually determined by being prepared and creating your own "luck". I like to think of it as preparation meets opportunity. I think that, if we get "lucky" we are a 10 win team, and that is not going to be enough. If we however are "unlucky", I think we are a 6 win team. Looking at our schedule, it's a very tough one on paper. How it pans out obviously, is something we won't know until after the season. But I don't see us winning the division, and I don't think that we are nearly as good as several other teams that will be fighting for a WC berth.

 

Again, we are thinking on the same wave length, but sometimes you are lucky outside your control - like when you meet a team on your schedule that is going through injuries OR is playing below its expectations.  The key is being positioned to take advantage of the situations.  Typically, the Skins don't because how many times have backups beaten us.  To me, this is a huge year on Gruden - will he elevate the team?

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Voted no.

 

We don't have any game changers at the skill positions.  One could argue for Jordan Reed but it's a fools errand but his health is about as reliable as a '79 Pacer.  No one can deny his greatness when he's on the field, it's just a matter of him being able to complete a full season.  

 

The receivers could be great, they could be terrible.  Doctson has all the talent, he just needs to put it together.  Crowder can be really solid.  Richardson can be good.  But what are the chances that all of those guys have good years?  Take into consideration it's the Redskins we're talking about here.

 

From a certain perspective, we're banking on a 33 year old Adrian Peterson to keep our offense from being completely one dimensional.  None of our other running backs are guys a defense needs to really respect.  

 

I think our defense can be a good unit but if we have an inept offense it doesn't really matter unless they turn into some really elite unit like the 2000 Ravens or the 2013 Seahawks.

 

I just think everything has to break right for this team to be successful....and things breaking right for the Skins just never happens.  

 

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2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

@Skinsinparadise loves to say that the FO is meh, not absolutely great but not absolutely horrible - in part because they don't take the chances that could get them a blockbuster player. Instead they live (especially in FA) with Bruce's cheapest angle option. <-- my words, not his and I'm not trying to misrepresent his POV so If I'm wrong on that my bad.

 

 

Sort of but not exactly.  To me the FO is a tale of two cities with college/draft personnel being run well (though not elite level well) and pro personnel/FA being one of the worst in the NFL.  Oddly enough, Cooley more or less said the same thing in his own way months back.  And he likes to say Bruce is his friend.   And to me Bruce sours the broth by coming off like a douche and incompetent.  If all they did is reassign Bruce and have Kyle run the whole ship, I'd instantly be happy and satisfied.  That would do it.  And some beat guys think its possible and in the offing. 

 

In this debate in a nut shell  I'd say you got a contingent of people who see the cup at least half full because hey they keep their draft choices and draft relatively well.   And Bruce is given a pass because hey the emphasis on the draft is happening under his watch.  And you got a larger contingent who are mostly cool with the draft but are either bothered by pro personnel or bothered by Bruce's behavior or both.  And want to change the man at the top and its a big deal to them.

 

The happy with the draft people and happy with Bruce's part of it can't understand how the other side can't at least worst case just shrug off Bruce and see him as neutral since again they are keeping draft picks and Kyle was his guy.  And the other side can't understand how the other side isn't bothered by what we perceive is Bruce's douche like behavior and incompetence and don't get how people overlook the guy who is actually in charge as a minor part of the soup. 

 

Bring this back to this discussion and the roster and Jay.  I really don't know if this is a playoff roster.  Am in Arizona I'll have a stronger feeling for it tomorrow.  I think Keim summarized it well, there are equal reasons for being optimistic and pessimistic.  So he split the difference and called it 8-8.  So many things with this roster that IMO can go one way or another. 

 

And the two biggest weapons on offense are coming off major injuries and have a history of injuries.  To me if Chris Thompson and Jordan Reed play the whole season or most of it -- maybe this is a playoff roster.  If they don't -- I don't think it is.  As for Alex Smith nothing would surprise me, upgrade, downgrade, about the same -- all things are possible to me.  If I had to pick a side it would be slight downgrade.  But I don't really feel strongly about it one way or another, will see. 

 

This game is a good test.  They have all their weapons playing.  The D line and pass rush is going against a relatively weak O line including a rookie center.  Bradford isn't mobile and the Redskins tend to sack the dude.  Also if they shored up their run stopping issues -- this is a good test. D. Johnson is a beast. The Cardinals are no pushovers.   But I think they represent a good test.

 

I predicted them going 9-7 in another thread.  So I lean towards optimism.  But I think the NFC is too stacked.  The schedule is too tough.  And too many key players are injury prone for me to say confidently this is a playoff roster.  But I'll have a better feeling for it tomorrow one way or another. 
 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And the two biggest weapons on offense are coming off major injuries and have a history of injuries.  To me if Chris Thompson and Jordan Reed play the whole season or most of it -- maybe this is a playoff roster. 

Hey, I just wanted to comment on this a bit. My last post was mostly about the defense but I wanted to comment on this in particular. 

 

Who was Chris Thompson before last year? I know he got resigned but he didn't have all pro numbers. Jay saw his potential but he hadn't done it in games much. 

 

Remember in 2014 when Niles Paul put up 500+ yards with Reed hurt. Last year Davis was like top 10 in ypc. Even with all the injuries Bibbs put up 200+ total yards in 3 games. 

 

I'm the least worried about the offense because Jay has shown he can find diamonds in the rough, especially with our inside out offense that makes Reed, Davis Crowder and Thompson the primary targets over the WRs. Maybe that changes with Doctson and Richardson this year but Jay has shown he can move the ball without premier players. What we haven't shown is that we can stop anybody, like ever. So if our formula this year works, I think we're easily a playoff team. 

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3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I say this with all seriousness because here we asking if we're a playoff team instead of a super bowl contender.  I mean, what's the goal here, making the playoffs? 

 

Will we be a super bowl contender next year?  Doesn't matter because we need to draft a QB after 2019 season anyway, who instead of being a 3-4 year starter by time they take over will be bright green. 

 

I don't get where this is coming from. Smith doesn't have an RG3 injury history and Rodgers (same draft) just signed a contract to take him till he's 40ish. Eli is 37 and still the starter for NY and many are predicting them to win the division. Brees and Brady are 40ish. But suddenly there's a collapse coming for Smith? He had his best season last year. I think we're a sleeper and can make a run if our defense can be more than inept. 

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Just now, Thinking Skins said:

 

I don't get where this is coming from. Smith doesn't have an RG3 injury history and Rodgers (same draft) just signed a contract to take him till he's 40ish. Eli is 37 and still the starter for NY and many are predicting them to win the division. Brees and Brady are 40ish. But suddenly there's a collapse coming for Smith? He had his best season last year. I think we're a sleeper and can make a run if our defense can be more than inept. 

Alex Smith has never been in Brees or Brady territory, those guys starting to slide downwards will still stay in the league because they were elite.  Tell me you didn't just bring up Aaron Rodgers in an Alex Smith debate?  Eli is one of the best mediocre QBs we've ever seen, he's mediocre at best right now.  I wouldn't say Alex will fall off a cliff in the next two years, but expecting him to stay at last years level for more then 2, I'm not buying it.  This playing well or even Elite into your 40s, that's not normal to expect that.  If he's a game manager now, what do you think Alex will be when he's 40? What about 38 when the contract is supposed to expire?  Andy Reid just drafted his replacement over a year ago, that should tell all of us something.

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