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Renegade7

Has FO given Jay a Playoff Roster for 2018???

Has FO given Jay a Playoff Roster for 2018???  

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  1. 1. Has FO given Jay a Playoff Roster for 2018???



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I was watching the Washington Post thread hoping conversation would steer towards this question, but it looks more related to owning jerseys or not.  Even the W/L Prediction and Evaluating Jay thread really doesn't do this question justice.  The reason why is I believe everyone's frustration wants peoples heads to roll if we don't make the playoffs regardless of the reason.

 

So I'm gonna try to come at this from a different perspective because I already see this season coming a mile away.  Front Office in my opinion has NOT given Jay a roster that should be expected to be in the playoffs.  You look at the other NFC powers that are expected to win their divisions and what's going on terms potential Wild Card teams like Green Bay, San Francisco, and Carolina, I don't feel we have anything special about us to put us in the convo with the Vikings and Rams now really able to seperate ourselves from the last three teams I mentioned.  We're going to have a lot of games this year that are going to have tie-breaker implications, not just regular NFC games.  It will be a double whammy if we lose to several of the teams we'll be competing for a Wild Card with.

 

Again, this is first time in my adult life that I don't see anything possible special about this team heading into the regular season.  No waiting to see what Fun and Gun can do, no hoping for return to glory with Gibbs return, no how far can Griffin or Cousins take us.  Given the number of injuries we had last year on offense, I feel we did nothing to address that, bringing back guys on the o-line for starting and depth that had injury issues last year, too.  As happy as I am to have AP, we seriously have to temper our expectations with that, especially since he's coming off a knee injury last year himself.  And don't even get me started on what the Front Office did to our Corner depth.  I'm terrified it will negate what should be one of the best Front Sevens in the NFL, period.

 

Because of this, even if we miss the playoffs, I don't want Jay gone, I want Bruce gone.  It was his idea to play chicken with Cousins and no doubt in my mind he had the final say, no Doug Williams, on trading for Alex Smith and letting Cousins walk instead of finding someway to flip Cousins for a draft pick and draft our QB of the future.  Bruce has forced us into win now mode with a roster that can't win now, that's not Jay's fault.  If we come out here looking unprepared for games and we get the "we weren't ready" when the games are typically the same day every week, sure, can him.  But despite me seeing this being a 10-6 team, I can very easily see us getting overwhelmed by more talented teams, especially if the injuries start piling up.

 

So odds are, if we don't make the playoffs, Bruce should be held accountable as I expect it to be his doing and personnel decisions if we miss the playoffs, especially if we get riddled with injures again, Jay has no final say on play acquisition.  I like his offense, it can get people open, I don't want to press the reset button on that unless we have to.  I think Bruce is halfway out the door anyway, honestly, far moreso then Jay is.

 

So ya, I don't think its right to say Jay has what he needs to compete for a playoff spot, we're asking people to overachieve here in too many key positions.  If he does get a playoff berth, he should get all the credit in the world for it.  But that's just my opinion.

 

This is NOT a will we make the playoffs thread, its a "do we have what we need to make the playoffs" thread.  Again, I say "no".

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Well I disagree with you.  We do still have to wait for them to play some games though.  But what I don't want to see is a knee jerk reaction from you about how we're going to the Superbowl, if they play well in this opener.  Stick to your guns.

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I view the talent as definitely capable.  Just as talent capable as any other team entering the season.  It comes down to the nitty gritty when the coaches have done their jobs and then the players execute consistently.  The talent needed to make the playoffs is definitely there, 100%.  

 

I'll finish by saying I don't think that Jay Gruden is capable of coaching the talent to the playoffs.  That is my #1 reason that they will not make the playoffs.  

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I think we have best case scenario a fringe playoff roster. Its not a slam dunk playoff roster like, say, the Patriots, Steelers, Eagles, Packers etc. but I think with some young player development, health, and a little luck, 9-10 wins is possible.

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3 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Well I disagree with you.  We do still have to wait for them to play some games though.  But what I don't want to see is a knee jerk reaction from you about how we're going to the Superbowl, if they play well in this opener.  Stick to your guns.

I've been been holding my ground for a while now, if I'm wrong I'll admit it, and it will take a while to prove that.  Like getting a berth. Me, waiting for Green Bay game, can't F that up.

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13 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

I view the talent as definitely capable.  Just as talent capable as any other team entering the season.  It comes down to the nitty gritty when the coaches have done their jobs and then the players execute consistently.  The talent needed to make the playoffs is definitely there, 100%.  

 

I'll finish by saying I don't think that Jay Gruden is capable of coaching the talent to the playoffs.  That is my #1 reason that they will not make the playoffs.  

 

I picked 10-6 but would not be surprised if injuries derail our season again, especially on offense. We did nothing about this, imo.  How different is that offense without CT and Reed? I'm burning incense to hope them to playing 16 games, would you be shocked, really?  Do we blame Jay for that?

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16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I picked 10-6 but would not be surprised if injuries derail our season again, especially on offense. We did nothing about this, imo.  How different is that offense without CT and Reed? I'm burning incense to hope them to playing 16 games, would you be shocked, really?  Do we blame Jay for that?

I picked 5-11 and the ceiling is the opposite.  

 

The difference in the offense with CT and Reed is huge!  I did some analysis on what it would take to have a change in the offense with regards to receiving corp and it had Reed needing to be on the field at least 14 games.  

 

Do we blame Jay?  For injuries...possible at this point.  Not going to dissect that one any further.  His idea of a successful training program and how to use his players to form a system that keeps players at optimum is essentially established as another failure.  

 

The reason the Redskins won the division is highlighted in the picture.  It wasn't because of Jay Gruden.  After 2015 they should have fired Jay Gruden and given McVay his job. 

Redskins 2015.png

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20 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

 

Redskins 2015.png

 

x1000.   

 

And I know it was all apart of a hundred other things....but losing Kyle Shananan was nearly as bad.

 

We had the next 2 young great offensive minds - and yet instead we wind up with Gruden.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think we have best case scenario a fringe playoff roster. Its not a slam dunk playoff roster like, say, the Patriots, Steelers, Eagles, Packers etc. but I think with some young player development, health, and a little luck, 9-10 wins is possible.

That's the point I was trying to drive home when I was making the case to get Bell here.  NFC South alone had two 11 win teams and one 10 team alone, all in the playoffs.  Only one team from the NFC had less the 11 wins in the playoffs, our conference is stacked, so I'm worried we don't have enough over the top talent to keep from getting outgunned.  No way 9 wins gets it done.

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Just now, fwo40 said:

 

x1000.   

 

And I know it was all apart of a hundred other things....but losing Kyle Shananan was nearly as bad.

 

We had the next 2 young great offensive minds - and yet instead we wind up with Gruden.

 

 

So true.  Monday morning QB'ing the decisions that were made isn't valid until it's valid.  Here there's a trend established with the more recent historical perspective specifically showing that one should expect the same results while Jay Gruden continues to do the same job.  

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@TheShredder and @fwo40, have ya'll ever watched a 49ers-Rams game lately?  It's like watching the Redskins play the Redskins, if you remember those offenses.  We did screw up Shanahan turning the team over to his son, Mike hired McVay, we coulda had both of them.  

 

That's gone now, is what it is.  And I absolutely disagree with blaming Jay for the injury thing considering its been an issue since way before he go here, not to mention the turf.  Ya'll remember what it looked like in that 2012 playoff game?  It better not ever look like that again.

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3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

That's the point I was trying to drive home when I was making the case to get Bell here.  NFC had two 11 win teams and one 10 team alone, all in the playoffs.  Only one team from the NFC had less the 11 wins in the playoffs, our conference is stacked, so I'm worried we don't have enough over the top talent to keep from getting outgunned.  No way 9 wins gets it done.

You can always have a playoff berth by default, much like 2015.  When the other 3 teams in your division all implode for whatever reasons.  

 

An example like this in 2018 is always possible to play out...  Dallas is one player away from totally inept (Elliott is their only true weapon) offense.  NY is still being driven by Eli and a retooled OL, as well as we know what can happen with a rookie RB (example Guice, Dalvin Cook, etc).  You can throw out the Beckham argument when you have Norman who has perfected the Beckham Wedgie. Their other receivers are not money.  Eagles are Super Bowl Champs that are likely very beatable on any given Sunday post Super Bowl (as statistically the Super Bowl hangover looms large).  Not to mention the fact that we've already seen the Foles from his Rams days and not the Super Bowl MVP..his passes were wobbly and inaccurate in Week 1 and nobody is scared of facing him.  Wentz isn't going to be back 100% this year by all likelihood.  Picking up from where he was at his best will take playing time.  I'll note that the 2017 Skins had enough to beat them if they only didn't beat themselves first or miss 3 sacks on the same play that resulted in a TD.  And there's the Cousins factor...not having Cousins might be worth an extra win all by itself where you're close at the end of the game and you don't poop your pants every time that happens. 

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@TheShredder and @fwo40, have ya'll ever watched a 49ers-Rams game lately?  It's like watching the Redskins play the Redskins, if you remember those offenses.  We did screw up Shanahan turning the team over to his son, Mike hired McVay, we coulda had both of them.  

 

That's gone now, is what it is.  And I absolutely disagree with blaming Jay for the injury thing considering its been an issue since way before he go here, not to mention the turf.  Ya'll remember what it looked like in that 2012 playoff game?  It better not ever look like that again.

The argument about who's to blame for historically terrible injury prone rosters year after year can only be addressed for change by....the efforts of the Head Coach.

 

We've already argued this quiet a bit.  Since nothing has changed except everything is the same...I expect Gruden to be fired soon by default.  Someone has to take responsibility and it's always going to be the Head Coach as he makes all of the decisions with this regard.  He's #1 responsible when he's in that position.  

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15 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

You can always have a playoff berth by default, much like 2015.  When the other 3 teams in your division all implode for whatever reasons.  

 

An example like this in 2018 is always possible to play out...  Dallas is one player away from totally inept (Elliott is their only true weapon) offense.  NY is still being driven by Eli and a retooled OL, as well as we know what can happen with a rookie RB (example Guice, Dalvin Cook, etc).  You can throw out the Beckham argument when you have Norman who has perfected the Beckham Wedgie. Their other receivers are not money.  Eagles are Super Bowl Champs that are likely very beatable on any given Sunday post Super Bowl (as statistically the Super Bowl hangover looms large).  Not to mention the fact that we've already seen the Foles from his Rams days and not the Super Bowl MVP..his passes were wobbly and inaccurate in Week 1 and nobody is scared of facing him.  Wentz isn't going to be back 100% this year by all likelihood.  Picking up from where he was at his best will take playing time.  I'll note that the 2017 Skins had enough to beat them if they only didn't beat themselves first or miss 3 sacks on the same play that resulted in a TD.  And there's the Cousins factor...not having Cousins might be worth an extra win all by itself where you're close at the end of the game and you don't poop your pants every time that happens. 

 

I agree Dallas is going to have a losing record, their passing game is going bring 8 in the box all day. But there's no way I bet against Philly when they won the Super Bowl with their backup QB.  Norman hasn't faced OBJ since 2016, I'll give you he got no TDs, but he lite him up for 121 yards the first game, I'm hoping for slowing him down and that defense still not meeting expectations.  I have no faith in Giants o-line, but heaven forbid we're wrong and they have Barkley.  Winning the division is possible, but I don't believe 9 wins does it, I believe Philly has more talent and is the better team, we need to steal that first game against with either a fresh Wentz or Foles at QB, then believe that last game will be for a playoff spot.  This is given we stay healthy and meet expectations, not even talking about overacheivinig here, just what do you expect all things considered.

 

15 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

The argument about who's to blame for historically terrible injury prone rosters year after year can only be addressed for change by....the efforts of the Head Coach.

 

We've already argued this quiet a bit.  Since nothing has changed except everything is the same...I expect Gruden to be fired soon by default.  Someone has to take responsibility and it's always going to be the Head Coach as he makes all of the decisions with this regard.  He's #1 responsible when he's in that position.  

 

How can you say something like that when we don't even have a practice bubble in Richmond? You do realize Orakpo hasn't missed a game since he left and went to the Titans, right?  That's like saying every coach since when, Snyder took over, doesn't now how to properly prepare their players in a way that limits injuries?  This is a multi-faceted issue that I wouldn't put the whole blame on anyone.  The point is Jay isn't getting what he needs, we should have top shelf facilities and training staff, but we don't.  Since you can't get rid of Snyder, next best guy to be threw two head coaches here and still not field a consistent winner is Bruce Allen.

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The question of "does this team have anything special" going for it is probably answered best on defense. I think we have a potentially special D Line. It's a question mark at this point, but we've seen glimpses that Allen, Payne, Ionadis, and Settle could be a hell of a group. On offense, Guice was supposed to be the game changing back, but he fell. Talentwise, Reed, CT, and the Oline certainly could cause some teams' stress. AP, if used appropriately, probably could provide a balance to the passing game that we haven't seen since Almo was good. Gruden has always fielded potent one-dimensional offenses. All pass and no run. No opponent really has ever had to play our running game honestly and I think that even if AP isn't a pro bowler anymore, he's good enough behind this line that they can't ignore the running game. We'll see though. We'll see if the tight ends and receivers can be bothered to block or if our weak link at guard capsizes the whole line.

 

So yeah, I think there is the chance that we have a playoff roster and at least two special units (oline and dline). I think we also have several groups that are intriguing based on potential including wide receiver. The question, as always, will be can this team convert potential into production? History says, "sigh," but maybe Alex Smith's and AP's professionalism and drive rubs off and we take off?

 

It'd be good to be surprised.

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@Burgold glad you brought up the o-line because I believe that's actually the most UNDERRATED part of the team.  All the crying about the run blocking I'm convinced is because we've been putting out mediocre running backs for years now.  The second AP was out there all the sudden the run blocking got better?  Nope.  My fear is health, and that will start to have an effect if we start having to play musical chairs again.  Seriously, Gruden keeping us around .500 last year deserves more credit, someone like Zorn and we don't win 6 games.

 

That entire Front 7 might be enough to put us in the conversation with teams we didn't expect to be with, I believe if anything that's what gets us in the playoffs and creates the most noise.  But we're talking potential, do it first, I know you can.  It's not going to mean **** if somebody getting to the second level can punk our secondary or our guys get beat deep for big plays more then 3-4 times a game.  That's my biggest fear of what keeps us out, even more then injuries, not being able to close out games or prevent people from scoring more then us via giving up big plays.

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This probably belongs in The Conspiracy Theory thread... but I am convinced that the NFL won't let us win **** because of our name.. I see it way too much all through the year calls that should be made calls that shouldn't have been made... As much as I hate saying it, until Snyder changes the name the NFL won't let us win anything regardless of who's on our roster.

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10 hours ago, fwo40 said:

 

x1000.   

 

And I know it was all apart of a hundred other things....but losing Kyle Shananan was nearly as bad.

 

We had the next 2 young great offensive minds - and yet instead we wind up with Gruden.

 

 

 

I believe Gruden helped make the Bengals contenders again after decades of suck. McVay and Kyle haven't done anything yet as head coaches and Kyle kind of forgot the running game existed when using it might have won his team a Super Bowl

 

as for if this roster is a playoff team, in three years we had one playoff season and two close ones. I don't think this roster is worse, so I'd say it's pretty close

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5 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

This probably belongs in The Conspiracy Theory thread... but I am convinced that the NFL won't let us win **** because of our name.. I see it way too much all through the year calls that should be made calls that shouldn't have been made... As much as I hate saying it, until Snyder changes the name the NFL won't let us win anything regardless of who's on our roster.

You actually see this complaint a lot from other teams, saw several missed or suspect calls in the Philly-Atlanta game.  I'm a firm believe that refs suck in general, expect them to hurt you, but you need to be good enough to overcome that.  We've been a fringe team a lot lately, so it doesn't take much to screw us or get lucky and get past it.

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Of course it is. The majority of teams have a playoff-caliber roster. Coaching, injuries, turnovers, QB play and luck play the biggest role each season in terms of who actually makes the playoffs. you can control 2 of those, maybe even 3.

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5 hours ago, carex said:

 

I believe Gruden helped make the Bengals contenders again after decades of suck. McVay and Kyle haven't done anything yet as head coaches and Kyle kind of forgot the running game existed when using it might have won his team a Super Bowl

 

IDK, man, McVay turned the Rams completely around in one offseason and Kyle ended last year with 5 game winning streak (not to mention running that offense that got Atlanta to the SuperBowl in the first place).  I think Jay can hold his own, but when all three retire, Jay won't have a better resume then those two.

 

5 hours ago, carex said:

as for if this roster is a playoff team, in three years we had one playoff season and two close ones. I don't think this roster is worse, so I'd say it's pretty close

 

Basically a fringe team that can make noise if things go right for us, especially from a health standpoint.  I think having our team in striking distance deserves more credit then its getting considering where we've been before Jay got here.

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I think the Redskins have the talent to contend for a playoff spot, but it is going to take a number of young guys to step up.

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I voted that the FO gave jay a playoff roster, but unfortunately the nfl did not give the Redskins a playoff schedule.  It will be a gauntlet, and it will be very hard to make the playoffs. However, if we were matched up with the afc East and the NFC west, this roster would make the playoffs imo.   

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No, I don't think it is a playoff roster.  My opinion may change when I see the starters play but as of now my answer is no.  I don't think the OL can run block and despite the addition of AP I have concerns about our running backs.  The running game has been substandard and I expect it to be in adequate again. I haven't really seen Alex play enough to form an opinion but I am going to give the FO the benefit of the doubt and assume Alex will carry his load but I am concerned about he WRs.  He'll have targets with Reed, Crowder and Davis but Doctson and the new guys are question marks.  So I expect an unbalance offense again and despit the investments in the OL and unbalanced team that is .500 quality but not a real playoff contender yet.

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11 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I voted that the FO gave jay a playoff roster, but unfortunately the nfl did not give the Redskins a playoff schedule.  It will be a gauntlet, and it will be very hard to make the playoffs. However, if we were matched up with the afc East and the NFC west, this roster would make the playoffs imo.   

 

I'm gonna throw something out there and let me know what ya'll think:  the schedule is hard, but full of potential for having tie breakers.  Like I mentioned, NFC South sent 3 teams to the playoffs last year, we play all of them this year.

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