SCOTUS: No longer content with stacking, they're now dealing from the bottom of the deck

[Dan T.]

I’m fine with the Demoncrats fighting to delay the pick. It won’t succeed. But it will keep in the spotlight the hypocrisy of the GOP and Mitch McConnell right up through the midterms, keeping that outrage fresh and, with any luck, turning would-be voters into voters. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You call this fighting?  Even if we wait until after midterms it will still be a conservative judge.  Dems got **** shutting down govt for DACA and still no DACA.  We need to be smart, not them.  Everything we do the right throws in our face, it's worse when they're right.  You think this will help or hurt us in the midterms?

 

If they just roll over and concede the pick and the potential impact it can have on women's rights etc it will be a huge slap in the face to all the volunteers and voters etc that have been so energized. Why bother continuing when the leadership is just going to fold so easily. 

 

I think it's important for the midterms for Dems to continue this fight

Edited June 29, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

If they just roll over and concede the pick and the potential impact it can have on women's rights etc it will be a huge slap in the face to all the volunteers and voters etc that have been so energized. Why bother continuing when the leadership is just going to fold so easily. 

 

I think it's important for the midterms for Dems to continue this fight

 

Concede the pick? He's going to be a conservative anyway.  The only way to atop that is if dems get control of senate and stop a vote until Trump is out if office. Is that what you want?  Pick your battles, this one is unwinnable, everyone knows it.  

 

It is a gamble to take the high ground same way it is if dems try to hold up the pick.  We could end up turning off potential voters who don't want to vote with GOP but then see us as jus as bad.  Is it worth it?  What do you think will do more damage to the potential blue wave?  That's what we need to be thinking about, big picture.

[Llevron]

29 minutes ago, tshile said:

I get it. Everyone's mad for many reasons. But own it. Quit pretending you're cleverly hiding it, because you're not.

 

See, this is where our conversations always go awry. You do this thing were you want to tell me what I mean....when I tell you exactly what the hell I mean. If I'm being convoluted or unclear tell me that. But you dont get to decide what my opinion and intentions are. 

 

This time, instead of choosing to go back and forth with you on more of your overly preachy bull****, I'll explain it again. A different way. If your immediate reaction is something along the lines of "Admit it! You cant hide it from me!!" as ****ing usual...try to understand I dont have a reason to hide or deny anything from you. I dont even know you. I dont care at all what you think past the sharing of opinions to further my own knowledge of the subject. Try that understanding **** you keep talking about verses trying to catch me in a non existent lie/trick. Please. That's all I'm asking. 

 

 

 

That said, my point it's that the wrong thing to do was upset the balance in the first place. I dont think the intention was to have a single sitting president or side set the rules or even influence them for 40+ years. That's why there is a transition of power. Mitch took advantage of the rules though, and here we are. I think the way to fix it is actually to do the same with this seat and keep it for the dems. Then make it so this cant happend again. 

 

Yes its absolutely retaliatory. But not for the sake of retaliation, but for the sake of the country. 

 

This, again, is just my opinion. What the dems are saying out of their own mouths doesnt really have anything to do with how I feel. I'm not a Democrat, I just vote that way currently. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Trump is not in his last year, it'd be symbolic only and a setup for them to do it again in last year of a dem president again.  Pick your battles, this isn't about smiling and letting it go, need to find a way to make sure it doesn't happen again, that's how you get even.  

 

This is it, dude.

 

You lose this battle, and you can have 65 Dems in the Senate and a Dem president forever and none if it will matter, because this court wlll strike down any progressive legislation for the next 30 to 40 years. I suspect Thomas is going to retire soon, and Trump and the GOP will be able to have 5 white men essentially dictate policy for the the country for two generations - just as God intended, I guess.

 

[Llevron]

39 minutes ago, bearrock said:

What you view as weak, I view as principled.  I get the frustration and I share them.  But the appropriate response to the type wrong committed by McConnell is at the voting booth.  If we continue the downward cycle of wrongful behavior, we continue the breakdown of American politics.  

 

There is no question the Dems principles have caused them to be less aggressive. 

 

Let's understand what I'm asking for here, though. I want the vote delayed until midterms. If the voters dont show up for the dems is just time spent delaying the inevitable anyway. I dont want the dems to literally steal it. I want them to give the American people the chance to steal it. 

 

Not much better. But different. I still want it in the hands of the voters. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

There is no question the Dems principles have caused them to be less aggressive. 

 

Let's understand what I'm asking for here, though. I want the vote delayed until midterms. If the voters dont show up for the dems is just time spent delaying the inevitable anyway. I dont want the dems to literally steal it. I want them to give the American people the chance to steal it. 

 

Not much better. But different. I still want it in the hands of the voters. 

Ain't ever going to happen.

McConnell feels that his move against Obama was a centerpiece of his leadership, anyone thinking he's going to decide to wait now when he has the chance to shove gays back into the closets and young women back into illegal back allies with coat hangers has got another thing coming. 

MAGA!

[Llevron]

46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You call this fighting?  Even if we wait until after midterms it will still be a conservative judge.  Dems got **** shutting down govt for DACA and still no DACA.  We need to be smart, not them.  Everything we do the right throws in our face, it's worse when they're right.  You think this will help or hurt us in the midterms?

 

People show up to vote when they are mad or inspired. I think this can be used to make people mad. So if done right it can help, yes. 

 

I do think we need to break some rules to help our democracy though. And I'm not saying Dems are saints just that what I think it best for the country currently is their obstruction in this case.  

[tshile]

@Llevron I was speaking generally at that point. 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Ain't ever going to happen.

McConnell feels that his move against Obama was a centerpiece of his leadership, anyone thinking he's going to decide to wait now when he has the chance to shove gays back into the closets and young women back into illegal back allies with coat hangers has got another thing coming. 

MAGA!

 

He really doesnt have a choice if 2 Republicans flip right? Correct me if that's how this works. I basically learned this from you guys. 

Just now, tshile said:

@Llevron I was speaking generally at that point. 

 

 

 

 

Ah. Ok cool my mistake then. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

He really doesnt have a choice if 2 Republicans flip right? Correct me if that's how this works. I basically learned this from you guys. 

 

They aren't going to flip.

[tshile]

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I think the way to fix it is actually to do the same with this seat and keep it for the dems.

Also - you’re not going to get to keep it for the dems

 

at best the dems are a hypocrite and the seat goes to a republican. 

 

Thats what makes it even more frustating. The gop acts like ****bags and gets a gain. The dems do it and get nothing for it and also have to defend themselves (and do a poor job of it.) 

 

You cant talk about moral superiority if you’re not going to actually stick to it. And if you’re going to deviate do it for a win for ****s sake 

2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

They aren't going to flip.

 

And at best the dems force trump to nominate a hard right guy that’s smart enough to pretend and sell himself as a thoughtful moderate consevative

 

Instead if whomever they want that doesn’t have to pretend. 

 

There’s no win here.

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

This is it, dude.

 

You lose this battle, and you can have 65 Dems in the Senate and a Dem president forever and none if it will matter, because this court wlll strike down any progressive legislation for the next 30 to 40 years. I suspect Thomas is going to retire soon, and Trump and the GOP will be able to have 5 white men essentially dictate policy for the the country for two generations - just as God intended, I guess.

 

 

It's not good, but seriously, while I get that, it may happen no matter what we do because of bad timing.  Say we don't hold up this one and take back the senate, we can force a more moderate judge when next appointment comes up.  Say this backfires and we don't take back the senate, then we're ultra f'd.  We're taking a risk either way, only way to really stop what your talking about is to hold up the process until Trump leaves (which would be worse then what GOP did given how much time trump has left) we don't have the votes to stop this one, maybe the next one?

[tshile]

17 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

You lose this battle, and you can have 65 Dems in the Senate and a Dem president forever and none if it will matter, because this court wlll strike down any progressive legislation for the next 30 to 40 years. I

 

Can you explain the path the dem take from here where the battle is not lost before they begin?

 

the battle was in November of 2016. How are they going to push this to beyond january? What’s the mechanism? 

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

People show up to vote when they are mad or inspired. I think this can be used to make people mad. So if done right it can help, yes. 

 

I do think we need to break some rules to help our democracy though. And I'm not saying Dems are saints just that what I think it best for the country currently is their obstruction in this case.  

I agree anger works, but it could make the other side angry, too.  I agree with Obama that we need to do more then mope, but we gotta be efficenct about it, we got nothing from the DACA fight because we shock at our own message, we shut down the government, that's what will be used against us November.

 

Let's at least see who they nominate first.  If it's someone prepared to overturn roe v wade for example, I might change my mind.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Protest that POTUS shouldn't be deciding Supreme Court justices until the results of the Mueller investigation are determined. That will get them at least several months and through midterms and then depending on the results of the investigation you could hold that off even longer. 

 

I doubt that sticks because voters are dumb but its logical. Why should somebody that is currently being investigated for treason be allowed to shape the Supreme Court for the next half century.  

[twa]

Still fun to remember Schumer filibustering Gorsuch.

 

Estrada being put in limbo not so much.

[tshile]

Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Protest that POTUS shouldn't be deciding Supreme Court justices until the results of the Mueller investigation are determined.

What is the mechanism the Senate has to prevent the GOP from holding the vote?

 

Because it sounds likes you all are hoping the GOP will decide "hey, they're right, we should wait until this investigation is over" 

 

and I don't see how ANYONE can believe the GOP will agree to that.

 

If we recognize this is a fight for the Supreme Court, why exactly would we believe one side would willingly give up their advantage? The GOP knows what's coming in November, their strategies are telegraphing that they understand. People are retiring because they don't want to even bother with it. 

 

You think they're going to cede a SCOTUS seat to the dems willingly? That's ridiculous.

 

What is the procedural mechanism they can use to delay this vote for 7 months?

[Renegade7]

That is a solid point @Momma There Goes That Man, jus no idea how long this investigation could go.  My gut says it won't be over before november.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Let's at least see who they nominate first.  If it's someone prepared to overturn roe v wade for example, I might change my mind.

 

There is no reason for Trump to nominate someone unless this is one of the things that that person explicitly believes in. They might not even say it in their hearings but they have passed the "litmus test" prior to being nominated. 

 

This is why the GOP and all their corporate donors and even their base don't care about Trump's antics, his daily diminishing of the position of the presidency and America's standing in the world, the he is a disgusting piece of **** of a human being or that he worked with a foreign adversary to steal the presidency. They don't give a rat's ass about any of that because this is what's it's all been about. They ignore all that because they knew he would give them billions in tax cuts and he is going to give them supreme court justices that will uphold their white christian worldview in america 

[nonniey]

On 6/27/2018 at 2:22 PM, Popeman38 said:

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

What is the mechanism the Senate has to prevent the GOP from holding the vote?

 

Because it sounds likes you all are hoping the GOP will decide "hey, they're right, we should wait until this investigation is over" 

 

and I don't see how ANYONE can believe the GOP will agree to that.

 

If we recognize this is a fight for the Supreme Court, why exactly would we believe one side would willingly give up their advantage? The GOP knows what's coming in November, their strategies are telegraphing that they understand. People are retiring because they don't want to even bother with it. 

 

You think they're going to cede a SCOTUS seat to the dems willingly? That's ridiculous.

 

What is the procedural mechanism they can use to delay this vote for 7 months?

 

No i dont think the GOP would agree to this but that is the cover for any other action the Dems can take to stall this as long as possible. That is the message. 

[nonniey]

Come on all of you need to calm down. One of the few silver linings about Trump is the Supreme Court. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by nonniey

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

No i dont think the GOP would agree to this but that is the cover for any other action the Dems can take to stall this as long as possible. That is the message. 

 

Right, but what is the action?
The filibuster was killed.

 

How are the dems going to stall? I've yet to hear what the procedural mechanism will be to stop this. It sounds like there isn't one?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Right, but what is the action?
The filibuster was killed.

 

How are the dems going to stall? I've yet to hear what the procedural mechanism will be to stop this. It sounds like there isn't one?

 

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