What do you Believe??? (Religion)

[Dancing Bear]

Crash Davis: Well, I believe in the soul, the ****, the *****, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

[nonniey]

On 4/30/2018 at 9:01 AM, China said:

I'll just leave this here.

 

Britain’s first Flat Earth conference hears final, definite proof that gravity doesn’t exist

 

This weekend, 200 believers gathered in a hotel near Birmingham to debate the big question – is the Earth a sphere, as millennia of scientific research have shown it is?

 

Or is it a sort of magic pancake thing floating in space, as maniacs on weird YouTube channels claim? Britain’s first-ever Flat Earth Convention was held in a Jury’s Inn hotel in Birmingham – attended by IT and NHS workers as well as ‘off grid’ eco types, the Telegraph reports. Convention organiser Gary John said, ‘People are waking up. We’re seeing an explosion of interest in flat earth theories and increasing mistrust of governments.’

 

In a speech, NHS worker David Marsh claims he has disproved planetary motion, using a Nikon camera and an app from his back garden. Marsh says, ‘My research destroys big bang cosmology. It supports the idea that gravity doesn’t exist and the only true force in nature is electromagnetism.’ Some Flat Earthers claim that Earth is in fact moving upwards, and that’s what keeps us ‘pinned down’, rather than gravity.

 

Click on the link for the full article

Come on guys 95% these flat-Earthers are trolling you.  (Now the other 5% hmmmm have probably been fitted for straight jackets as some point in their lives).

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 hours ago, China said:

I believe the charlatans that are promoting this should be shot:

 

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wU10/peter-popoff-ministries-miracle-spring-water

Oh God. Didn't that Popoff asshole already get busted as a fraud a long, long time ago?

 

edit: Yup.

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

I don't know about shot... all life is sacred. But I wouldn't be opposed to an old fashioned public flogging.

Public, non-lethal shooting? Say, in the kneecap maybe?

 

I feel really good right now. History will remember Zguy and I's conversation as an example of how, in this crazy world we live in, two rational people with very different world views could still come together and compromise to create a solution that works for everyone. In this case, shooting people in the knee caps.

[Renegade7]

@Chew. How much of this thread have you read?  We've already gone over "not everything is God's plan" and not needing organized religion to have a relationship with God.  I'm convinced Jesus more towards supporting social programs for the poor then stopping abortion. We could all take a page out of his book in reaching out to people we normally wouldn't reach out to.

 

Edit:  I'd really love to hear from whoever finally voted non-monotheism 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Renegade7

[Chew]

14 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

@Chew. How much of this thread have you read?  We've already gone over "not everything is God's plan" and not needing organized religion to have a relationship with God.  I'm convinced Jesus more towards supporting social programs for the poor then stopping abortion. We could all take a page out of his book in reaching out to people we normally wouldn't reach out to.

 

Edit:  I'd really love to hear from whoever finally voted non-monotheism 

None LOL.  It was an old thread that got bumped, I'd never seen it before.  I saw it had gone 23 pages and figured I'd catch up some other time LOL.  I like the idea of not needing an organized religion to know God, and that's something I could possibly find myself on board with.......maybe one day.

I re-read my response, it was a little much.  Didn't mean for it to be.  I fully support religion 100% and am happy for anyone who knows God.  Outside of my parents, all of our closest friends and family are religious.  I've been to church plenty of times with friends to give it a try, it just doesn't click with me.  Per my MIL's request, my wife (who also is not religious) and I went to church with her every Sunday for nearly two years.  I just couldn't get on board.  I've genuinely, with an open mind and heart, tried talking to God before.  But I never heard anything back, nor did I "feel" anything.  

It's so difficult for me to consider turning my life over to something that there's no proof of.  It seems illogical.  And that's usually when friends tell me "that's where faith comes in."  I respect it, but it isn't for me.  At least not now anyway.  Nobody on this planet can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that God exists.  Nor can it be proven that he/she doesn't.  I'm on board with God if I ever feel him, but I haven't. 

I am terrified of death.  Not because it might hurt, but because I like being here and I don't want to leave.  As I grow older, I could see myself trying again to find God, because I want some comfort in knowing that when I die that it's not over.  But I know that God would probably be disappointed in me for only rocking with him late in life when I'm getting ready to go LOL.  But as I said earlier, I've tried many times to establish a relationship with the big homie, and all I heard was radio silence. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Chew

[Renegade7]

23 minutes ago, Chew said:

None LOL.  It was an old thread that got bumped, I'd never seen it before.  I saw it had gone 23 pages and figured I'd catch up some other time LOL.  I like the idea of not needing an organized religion to know God, and that's something I could possibly find myself on board with.......maybe one day.

I re-read my response, it was a little much.  Didn't mean for it to be.  I fully support religion 100% and am happy for anyone who knows God.  Outside of my parents, all of our closest friends and family are religious.  I've been to church plenty of times with friends to give it a try, it just doesn't click with me.  Per my MIL's request, my wife (who also is not religious) and I went to church with her every Sunday for nearly two years.  I just couldn't get on board.  I've genuinely, with an open mind and heart, tried talking to God before.  But I never heard anything back, nor did I "feel" anything.  

It's so difficult for me to consider turning my life over to something that there's no proof of.  It seems illogical.  And that's usually when friends tell me "that's where faith comes in."  I respect it, but it isn't for me.  At least not now anyway.  Nobody on this planet can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that God exists.  Nor can it be proven that he/she doesn't.  I'm on board with God if I ever feel him, but I haven't. 

I am terrified of death.  Not because it might hurt, but because I like being here and I don't want to leave.  As I grow older, I could see myself trying again to find God, because I want some comfort in knowing that when I die that it's not over.  But I know that God would probably be disappointed in me for only rocking with him late in life when I'm getting ready to go LOL.  But as I said earlier, I've tried many times to establish a relationship with the big homie, and all I heard was radio silence. 

 

I can dig it, I figured that, but still you should get through whole thing when you can, even if it's in chunks.

 

Here's the thing, God has never said a word to me either, thats not how it works. From what I can tell he hasn't spoken directly to anyone since biblical times.  You gotta look for signs that he's listening, he is.

 

I can't consistently do the church thing either because I always at some point hear something I don't agree with.  I go partly for the different perspective on these examples of faith, that these parables and analogies are attempts to be more relatable to everyday person (Jesus mentions this in Mathews).

 

As for being scared of death, all my grandparents got exhausted with life and were tired.  You'll feel differently once you've had 80 something Christmases.  And as has been mentioned, people in the bible had similar concerns that have been raised in this thread.  Sometimes they got the answer they were looking for, sometimes they didn't.

 

I'd recommend you confirm what He expects from you in having a relationship with Him before saying He's asking for too much.  That relationship in a way can and should still be on your terms, though, 8n the perspective of this being a free country. I don't believe for 2 seconds Jesus intent was for what the Catholic Church became, that's all us.

 

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Chew said:

It's so difficult for me to consider turning my life over to something that there's no proof of.  It seems illogical. 

 

(I've already covered this in detail in this thread so I'm repeating things that are in this thread.)

 

The fundamental issue is if you believe in and live your life as if the world and universe are physical spaces/places then you have turned your life over to something for which there is no proof, 

 

There is no proof that the laws of physics are going to be the same tomorrow as they are today.  Science doesn't tell us what tomorrow looks like without making assumptions that some things that are true today are also going to be true tomorrow.  Making predictions about tomorrow without making assumptions about gravity is impossible and science really doesn't tell you that gravity is going to be the same tomorrow as it is today.

 

In its most common utilization/description, science make what are called axiomatic assumptions.

 

https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/basic_assumptions

Edited July 27, 2018 by PeterMP

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, Chew said:

I am terrified of death.  Not because it might hurt, but because I like being here and I don't want to leave.  

 

This is the biggest thing I struggle with. The idea that the lights just turn off and it all ends with no further connection to anyone or anything I've known throughout my time here is overwhelming and petrifying to me. 

[Zguy28]

I've heard that human existence can boiled down to 4 basic questions.

 

Origins: Where do I come from?

Meaning: Why am I here?

Morality: How do I know what is good or evil?

Destiny: What happens when I die?

 

Your answers to these largely determine your worldview and ultimately guide your thinking.

[Zguy28]

1 hour ago, Chew said:

I am terrified of death.  Not because it might hurt, but because I like being here and I don't want to leave.  As I grow older, I could see myself trying again to find God, because I want some comfort in knowing that when I die that it's not over.  But I know that God would probably be disappointed in me for only rocking with him late in life when I'm getting ready to go LOL. 

Luke 15:11-24 CSB

 

[Jesus] also said: “A man had two sons. ¹² The younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the estate I have coming to me.’ So he distributed the assets to them. ¹³ Not many days later, the younger son gathered together all he had and traveled to a distant country, where he squandered his estate in foolish living. ¹⁴ After he had spent everything, a severe famine struck that country, and he had nothing. ¹⁵ Then he went to work for one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. ¹⁶ He longed to eat his fill from the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one would give him anything. ¹⁷ When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired workers have more than enough food, and here I am dying of hunger! ¹⁸ I’ll get up, go to my father, and say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight. ¹⁹ I’m no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired workers.”’ ²⁰ So he got up and went to his father. But while the son was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion. He ran, threw his arms around his neck, and kissed him. ²¹ The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight. I’m no longer worthy to be called your son.’

²² “But the father told his servants, ‘Quick! Bring out the best robe and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. ²³ Then bring the fattened calf and slaughter it, and let’s celebrate with a feast, ²⁴ because this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found!’ So they began to celebrate.

 

 

Quote

But as I said earlier, I've tried many times to establish a relationship with the big homie, and all I heard was radio silence. 

I listen to God through His word, the bible. It's how He reveals Himself to us and speaks to us. I've never heard God speak audibly and prayer is our way of speaking to God. Even so, I've "heard God speak" through answered prayers (my recent knee injury inexplicably healed to the doctor's bafflement) and also through one's not answered (things I've wanted to do, but that would've been disasters because I wasn't ready to handle it).

Just a suggestion: try to read the Gospel of John in the New Testament with an open mind. You may be surprised that Jesus meets you there and gives you the comfort you seek.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=CSB

Edited July 27, 2018 by Zguy28

[China]

Flat Earthers Understand Climate Change And We're Just Not Sure What to Think

 

Just because you reject one fact with a staggering amount of common sense and scientific evidence behind it doesn't mean you have to reject all of them – and so it is that Flat Earthers officially accept human-caused climate change.

 

This week Reddit drew our attention to a tweet from the Flat Earth Society posted back in July, which suggests – as far as the social media managers at the Society are concerned, at least – people can believe in both a Flat Earth and climate change.

 

Responding to a question about whether Society members believed in climate change, the tweeted reply was this:

 

"Certainly. It would be nothing short of irresponsible to question something with so much overwhelming evidence behind it, and something that threatens us so directly as a species."

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

@China is the flat earth thing a conspiracy theory that frequents conservative circles more?  I never knew it as a creationsim aspect, just something people want to be different on in this post-Facts world.  Anyways, just in case ya'll forgot, God don't like Ugly:

 

 

 

[China]

What Makes a True Atheist? PW Talks to John Gray

 

British philosopher and former professor of European Thought, John Gray is the author of nearly a dozen books, but is perhaps best known for 2007’s Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals (FSG), in which he argued that humans ought to strip ourselves of the “dangerous” illusion that we are different from other animals.

 

Gray’s new book, Seven Types of Atheism (FSG, Oct.), takes that argument a step further by maintaining that many strands of atheism replace traditional religion with a worship of the human being. Though godless, much of what is called "atheist" is actually religious, says Gray. He asserts that the only difference between traditional atheism and religion is that instead of the worship of a monotheistic God, atheists find faith in humanity and its ability to improve as a species, and uses uprisings of the working class and technology as examples. But first, Gray establishes the different schools of thought among atheists in the book.

 

“As a historian in the academics, I knew that there were many different types of atheism, and of course we all know that there are many different types of religion,” he told PW. “There are many varieties within that broad understanding of people who don’t believe in a creator god, all with different philosophies, different histories, and different views of the world.”

 

The author says the seven types of atheism can sometimes meld into each other—but he contends that only two are true forms of an absence of belief in the existence of deities.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

I think I can understand how that line of thinking works now (not a belief there is no God, just absence of believe there is one, not even thinking about it).  Now that is an interesting comment about turning and just replacing that God with something like worshiping science or human ability.  True atheists aren't trying to fill that void, this is what we got, so lets work with it.  I still can't get over what I feel is the belief that after we die, that's it, we cease to exist.  Faith is not something that should require hard proof, so I'd ask, wouldn't you want to make sure? 

 

I don't believe we're meant to discover or understand everything, something like the metaphysical may be beyond our reach for a reason (should we even be trying to make a direct connection to the dead?).  But I imagine as people of science some proof that this is the case would be more enticing then saying there isn't evidence that there is.  Like, for everything else in science, "no evidence to say otherwise" is an unacceptable answer. 

 

It's only natural to wonder where we came from, I believe its just as if not more important to make sure where we are going.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Renegade7

[TheGreatBuzz]

7 hours ago, China said:

atheists find faith in humanity and its ability to improve as a species

Lost me right here.  Any little bit of faith I may have had in this was lost somewhere around November 20116.

[Renegade7]

48 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Lost me right here.  Any little bit of faith I may have had in this was lost somewhere around November 20116.

Waiting for November 2018, Older Brother told me he wont have kids if Trump gets reelected in 2020.

[Zguy28]

26 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Waiting for November 2018, Older Brother told me he wont have kids if Trump gets reelected in 2020.

He sounds like many conservatives during the Obama years. Birthing and teaching children according to your values (whatever side of the spectrum your on) is one of the ways you can change the world.

[Bang]

I'm an atheist and i have little faith in humanity.

I believe a lot of humanity would like to move forward and thrive, but we are constantly held back by those who live in the false notions of the past and fear of the future.

 

As a species, we are doomed. We are already at an unsustainable rate of population growth, and it will only increase exponentially. We are completely unwilling to realize it, make any hard choices, sacrifice any comforts in order to survive. In fact, we have extremely powerful groups fighting against it. Fighting to bleed every last dollar out of everyone as the whole thing declines. 

 

to boil it all down into biblical terms, it seems to me that humanity revels in the seven deadly sins, and as such, will suffer the fate of those who do. And i don't mean that has anything to do with any afterlife... but if it does, these people are convinced that no matter what they do, how many commandments they break, no matter how many of the 7 they are addicted to... that everything is going to be a-ok and this God thing will take care of them. They have abandoned personal responsibility.

 

How does anyone respect that? That isn't faith, that is lazy unprincipled ignorance and utter hubris.
 

 

~Bang

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Bang

[Renegade7]

28 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

He sounds like many conservatives during the Obama years. Birthing and teaching children according to your values (whatever side of the spectrum your on) is one of the ways you can change the world.

 

While i agree with this, we lose a lot of black males to things outside our control no matter what we teach them.  I told him it's extreme, but i understand the concern of not wanting to bring a child into a potentially authoritarian United States, especially with how far to the left he is personally.  My brother is white and basically the pessimistic version of me, but i understand where he's coming from even if i don't agree with that decision (aka ill support him regardless)

[Renegade7]

@Bang we could make a whole separate thread on whether we can keep ourselves from going extinct, and believe we are further ahead then people realize. Single most important step in our survival is campaign finance reform in US (im not ready to give up on that, both sides want it, progressives are running on it).

 

Earth also has a long history of self-correction and humans a strong history of adaptability seemingly from get-go.  When plague hit Europe, half the population died and was followed by an explosion of land ownership for the survivors (this is what essentially ended the dark ages and lead the renaissance)

 

As for sinning, God expects us to sin, thats our nature that we have to fight everyday and typically lose in one form or the other.  That's not a deal breaker.  I'm kinda done with these evangelicals that are defending Trump, but what were seeing are their kids almost half and half supporting stuff like gay marriage and medicare for all.  Thats who we need to keep an eye on, that gives me hope.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

It's only natural to wonder where we came from

3.8 billion years of things doing the nasty.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

3.8 billion years of things doing the nasty.

Yea, i believe in evolution and believe God had a hand in it.  Now, how did we get to DNA since its too complex to appear out if thin air is a question.  Was there really a big bang and what came before it if it did is a question.  Think were closer to answering the first one then the second one, i don't think we ever confirm on our own how the universe really started or if there was anything before that (nor do i believe thats our purpose as a species)

Edited September 13, 2018 by Renegade7

[Bang]

30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Bang we could make a whole separate thread on whether we can keep ourselves from going extinct, and believe we are further ahead then people realize. Single most important step in our survival is campaign finance reform in US (im not ready to give up on that, both sides want it, progressives are running on it).

 

Earth also has a long history of self-correction and humans a strong history of adaptability seemingly from get-go.  When plague hit Europe, half the population died and was followed by an explosion of land ownership for the survivors (this is what essentially ended the dark ages and lead the renaissance)

 

As for sinning, God expects us to sin, thats our nature that we have to fight everyday and typically lose in one form or the other.  That's not a deal breaker.  I'm kinda done with these evangelicals that are defending Trump, but what were seeing are their kids almost half and half supporting stuff like gay marriage and medicare for all.  Thats who we need to keep an eye on, that gives me hope.

 

Simple numbers on survivability. for us to do so, a lot of people need to die, and birth has to be limited. 

no one is going to do anything about that, and we will deplete our resources no matter how much we conserve simply because of the sheer number of people who will need to share them.. as they decrease.

 

the expecting us to sin is a cop out and exactly what i am on about above.

i don't care, i will be morbidly gluttonous, unashamedly greedy, slothful, I will fill my heart with hate. I will cheat on my spouse, i will be violent, and if not overtly, then by supporting violence against those i hate / fear, ..and all the while, i will be proud of it.

and in the end, all i have to do is believe in the almighty fairy, and I get saved.

 

Personal responsibility: abandoned.

Why bother with it? There is no punishment in their minds. None. None of them are going to hell, they don't even consider it because the whole thing is set up with the Big Cop Out at the end, and everybody gets a trophy.

 

The best thing the future could do is abandon the myths. Take the responsibility. 

 

Sorry, i don't mean to be insulting.. i just can't abide the 'logic' behind any of it.

 

~Bang

[Zguy28]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

As a species, we are doomed. We are already at an unsustainable rate of population growth, and it will only increase exponentially. We are completely unwilling to realize it, make any hard choices, sacrifice any comforts in order to survive.

 

~Bang

 

Bang is Thanos! lol