OVCChairman Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Morneblade said: The issue is that Alex is not likely to target any WR all that much. That is just not his game. He throws the ball to TEs and RB's and guys in the slot. He doesn't throw outside that much, and he doesn't throw deep much at all. Unless we're going to go after Tyreek Hill, who can get 5+ yards wide open, most other guys are not going to make a big difference. I'm not going to say that hardly ANY WR will come in here and put up 1000 yards over the next 10 games. I get it. I don't need that. We don't need that. That said, we have ZERO threat out there.. so EVERYTHING on the interior is getting bottled up. We've taken a FEW shots to try and soften that, but I still don't think anyone fears anything we have to offer on the outside. D jax brought more than just catches. He occupied a safety pretty much at all times. You get a viable threat outside, whether or not Smith throws them the ball 10 times a game, it changes the offense. It makes the safety cheat, then all of a sudden that 10 yards completion to Reed doesn't have a safety over the top and it goes for 45. That off tackle play to Peterson doesnt have a safety crashing down and goes for 22 instead of 6. We also have NOBODY that scares you outside when the ball is in their hands. Someone like Tate is good getting separation at the point of the catch, and extending yac. We don't have that. Someone like that won't monumentally change the offense, but it can translate into an additional 10-20 yac per game, were talking about even longer drives, even more first downs... it HELPS. Not megatron who can take over a game, but the offense can be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: I'm not going to say that hardly ANY WR will come in here and put up 1000 yards over the next 10 games. I get it. I don't need that. We don't need that. That said, we have ZERO threat out there.. so EVERYTHING on the interior is getting bottled up. We've taken a FEW shots to try and soften that, but I still don't think anyone fears anything we have to offer on the outside. D jax brought more than just catches. He occupied a safety pretty much at all times. You get a viable threat outside, whether or not Smith throws them the ball 10 times a game, it changes the offense. It makes the safety cheat, then all of a sudden that 10 yards completion to Reed doesn't have a safety over the top and it goes for 45. That off tackle play to Peterson doesnt have a safety crashing down and goes for 22 instead of 6. We also have NOBODY that scares you outside when the ball is in their hands. Someone like Tate is good getting separation at the point of the catch, and extending yac. We don't have that. Someone like that won't monumentally change the offense, but it can translate into an additional 10-20 yac per game, were talking about even longer drives, even more first downs... it HELPS. Not megatron who can take over a game, but the offense can be better. Tate is not going to make anyone cheat on every play. DJax, Hill and maybe a couple other guys can do that. Crowder, Reed, Davis and Thompson are great with YAC. Peterson has been Bloody Murder with YAC this year. To be a threat with outside YAC, you have to get the ball, and that isn't going to happen much with Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Morneblade said: Tate is not going to make anyone cheat on every play. DJax, Hill and maybe a couple other guys can do that. Crowder, Reed, Davis and Thompson are great with YAC. Peterson has been Bloody Murder with YAC this year. To be a threat with outside YAC, you have to get the ball, and that isn't going to happen much with Smith. Well I know the two of us have played table tennis going back and forth regarding Smith and how this offense will work... and we clearly have different viewpoints... which is ok. I respect it actually. SOME threat on the outside is better than virtually not threat.. no matter how tangible the statistics to prove it... right now we have virtually no threat. Adding even some portion of that can only be a positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, OVCChairman said: Well I know the two of us have played table tennis going back and forth regarding Smith and how this offense will work... and we clearly have different viewpoints... which is ok. I respect it actually. SOME threat on the outside is better than virtually not threat.. no matter how tangible the statistics to prove it... right now we have virtually no threat. Adding even some portion of that can only be a positive. I'm ok with that too. Thing is, if you go back and look at offenses under Smith, they always get better, and WR's are used more AFTER he leaves. You're in the camp that it's the WR that kinda hold him back, but history views it differently. Smith under utilizes them, because he's safe. He's a 1st read and bail guy, going for the checkdown or running. So, I don't think that literally anyone is going to get many targets. So, they only guys worth bringing in are guys that affect the defense even if they don't get targets. Tate doesn't scare anyone like that. YAC scares people when you know the guy is going to get touches. DJax scares people because even someone like Alex will take a chance if his guy is open by 5+ yards. Tate is not that guy. Richardson is an outside threat. He's not a huge one, but he IS one. Guy can run, and defenders know it. He's more of a deep threat than Tate is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 44 minutes ago, Morneblade said: I'm ok with that too. Thing is, if you go back and look at offenses under Smith, they always get better, and WR's are used more AFTER he leaves. You're in the camp that it's the WR that kinda hold him back, but history views it differently. Smith under utilizes them, because he's safe. He's a 1st read and bail guy, going for the checkdown or running. So, I don't think that literally anyone is going to get many targets. So, they only guys worth bringing in are guys that affect the defense even if they don't get targets. Tate doesn't scare anyone like that. YAC scares people when you know the guy is going to get touches. DJax scares people because even someone like Alex will take a chance if his guy is open by 5+ yards. Tate is not that guy. Richardson is an outside threat. He's not a huge one, but he IS one. Guy can run, and defenders know it. He's more of a deep threat than Tate is. I'm in the camp that Smith is willing to target a WR that's worth targeting. I think that most of Smiths career, he's had weapons on the offense that are not at the WR position. In San Fran he had Vernon Davis in his prime as well as Gore. When he got Crabtree, he got targets. When he went to KC, he had Jamaal Charles and Travis Kelce. One of the best pass catching RBs of his time, and one of the best TE's still. He also had Bowe and Maclin who respectively had their fair share of targets within that offense. 2016 No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 87 Travis Kelce*+ 27 TE 16 15 1 -5 0 -5 -5.0 -0.3 0.1 117 85 1125 13.2 4 80 5.3 70.3 72.6% 86 13.0 1120 4 0 10 Tyreek Hill*+ 22 wr 16 1 24 267 3 70 11.1 16.7 1.5 83 61 593 9.7 6 49 3.8 37.1 73.5% 85 10.1 860 9 4 19 Jeremy Maclin 28 WR 12 12 1 -1 0 -1 -1.0 -0.1 0.1 76 44 536 12.2 2 44 3.7 44.7 57.9% 45 11.9 535 2 0 17 Chris Conley 24 WR 16 11 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 69 44 530 12.0 0 39 2.8 33.1 63.8% 44 12.0 530 0 1 12 Albert Wilson 24 wr 16 5 2 50 1 55 25.0 3.1 0.1 51 31 279 9.0 2 42 1.9 17.4 60.8% 33 10.0 329 3 0 32 Spencer Ware 25 RB 14 14 214 921 3 46 4.3 65.8 15.3 42 33 447 1 2015 No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 19 Jeremy Maclin 27 WR 15 15 3 14 0 18 4.7 0.9 0.2 124 87 1088 12.5 8 61 5.8 72.5 70.2% 90 12.2 1102 8 2 87 Travis Kelce* 26 TE 16 16 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 103 72 875 12.2 5 42 4.5 54.7 69.9% 72 12.2 875 5 2 12 Albert Wilson 23 WR 14 12 5 26 0 8 5.2 1.9 0.4 57 35 451 12.9 2 44 2.5 32.2 61.4% 40 11.9 477 2 0 35 Charcandrick West 24 RB 15 9 160 634 4 38 4.0 42.3 10.7 34 20 214 10.7 1 80 1.3 14.3 58.8% 180 4.7 848 5 1 17 Chris Conley 23 wr 16 5 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 31 17 199 11.7 1 44 1.1 12.4 54.8% 17 11.7 199 1 0 25 Jamaal Charles 29 rb 5 5 71 364 4 34 5.1 72.8 14.2 29 21 177 8.4 1 26 4.2 35.4 72.4% 92 5.9 541 5 2 2014 (the no td to wr year) No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 82 Dwayne Bowe 30 WR 15 15 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 95 60 754 12.6 0 37 4.0 50.3 63.2% 60 12.6 754 0 2 87 Travis Kelce 25 TE 16 11 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 87 67 862 12.9 5 34 4.2 53.9 77.0% 67 12.9 862 5 4 25 Jamaal Charles* 28 RB 15 15 206 1033 9 63 5.0 68.9 13.7 59 40 291 7.3 5 30 2.7 19.4 67.8% 246 5.4 1324 14 5 80 Anthony Fasano 30 TE 15 13 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 36 25 226 9.0 4 22 1.7 15.1 69.4% 25 9.0 226 4 0 13 De'Anthony Thomas 21 wr 12 3 14 113 1 26 8.1 9.4 1.2 31 23 156 6.8 0 30 1.9 13.0 74.2% 37 7.3 269 1 0 12 Albert Wilson 22 wr 12 2 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 28 16 260 16.3 0 48 1.3 21.7 57.1% 16 16.3 260 0 0 17 Donnie Avery 30 wr 6 3 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 26 15 176 11.7 0 27 2.5 29.3 57.7% 15 11.7 176 0 1 2013 No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 25 Jamaal Charles*+ 27 RB 15 15 259 1287 12 46 5.0 85.8 17.3 104 70 693 9.9 7 71 4.7 46.2 67.3% 329 6.0 1980 19 4 82 Dwayne Bowe 29 WR 15 15 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 103 57 673 11.8 5 34 3.8 44.9 55.3% 57 11.8 673 5 0 22 Dexter McCluster* 24 wr 15 6 8 5 0 5 0.6 0.3 0.5 83 53 511 9.6 2 43 3.5 34.1 63.9% 61 8.5 516 2 2 17 Donnie Avery 29 WR 16 14 2 6 0 4 3.0 0.4 0.1 71 40 596 14.9 2 51 2.5 37.3 56.3% 42 14.3 602 2 1 84 Sean McGrath 26 TE 16 9 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 40 26 302 11.6 2 25 1.6 18.9 65.0% 26 11.6 302 2 0 80 Anthony Fasano 29 TE 9 9 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 33 23 200 8.7 3 20 2.6 22.2 69.7% 23 8.7 200 3 0 The numbers are simlar in San Fran but I don't want to keep posting tables because the thread is already large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Demaryius Thomas traded to the Texans (to replace Will Fuller who tore his ACL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonialWBSkinsFan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Stadium-Armory said: Demeriyus Thomas traded to the Texans (to replace Will Fuller who tore his ACL). Great.... they get another stud for Deshaun to throw to and we have to play them in a few weeks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Trade a 4th for Tate and sign Dez. Why are we not trying to improve by far our weakest position. Just in Front office is garbage. G.Tate the the Eagles. Garbage ass front office we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Golden Tate traded to the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said: Golden Tate traded to the Eagles. Yep look above your post. Our front office is horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said: Great.... they get another stud for Deshaun to throw to and we have to play them in a few weeks... Annnnd we now get to see the Iggles with Tate. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Tate isn't that good. He's solid, not worth a draft pick for a rental player. No need to be foolish. Someone brought up Dez, he's done. He was done last year and not worth the locker room hassle. Tate and Dez aren't making our WR core any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Brandon Marshall is free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Any updates on Trey Quinn is he practicing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Any updates on Trey Quinn is he practicing?? Jay said he's jogging and very close to returning to practice - but that return was only in reference to practice, not the roster, which is not so certain. The only certain player returning from IR soon is Byron Marshall in a week or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I think we didn't add a WR because our WRs haven't been our problem. Injuries, aside. But damn did we seem like a good candidate to add one with a 5-2 record. I see no name WRs and all QBs making plays in every game I watch. Alex has just been off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 59 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: I think we didn't add a WR because our WRs haven't been our problem. Injuries, aside. But damn did we seem like a good candidate to add one with a 5-2 record. I see no name WRs and all QBs making plays in every game I watch. Alex has just been off. I get it... but Alex' play aside, we had a chance to get better on offense and we didnt. Like you said, we're 5-2. We're firmly in control of our own destiny. Why wouldn't we try to get better? Saying we don't need to add a WR because Smith is struggling is cutting off your nose to spite your face (not you directly, just the general sentiment). Why wouldn't we want to improve our team? I don't want to mortgage the future... but to decide to not improve the team? I just can't agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird2 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 7 hours ago, RandyHolt said: I think we didn't add a WR because our WRs haven't been our problem. Injuries, aside. But damn did we seem like a good candidate to add one with a 5-2 record. I see no name WRs and all QBs making plays in every game I watch. Alex has just been off. Team Chemistry WR's are notorious Prima Donna's. Adding another big Ego to the squad could be detrimental to the whole, and demoralizing to the guys that are getting it turned in the right direction. Maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 7 hours ago, OVCChairman said: I get it... but Alex' play aside, we had a chance to get better on offense and we didnt. Like you said, we're 5-2. We're firmly in control of our own destiny. Why wouldn't we try to get better? Saying we don't need to add a WR because Smith is struggling is cutting off your nose to spite your face (not you directly, just the general sentiment). Why wouldn't we want to improve our team? I don't want to mortgage the future... but to decide to not improve the team? I just can't agree with that. The thing is aside for Alex's play, the WR's are not the issue. It's Alex's play. Why add another WR when the problem isn't the WR's? That's not cutting you're nose off in spit of your face, it's trying to fix a blown gasket with a spark plug change. You're not actually addressing the real issue. And................the issues as it turns out, is something we're going to have to live with. His contract basically demands he's going to be the starting QB for the next 3 years. Honestly, the best thing we can do is get the best blocking WR's that we have out there most of the time, and run the **** out of the ball. Does it make sense to make a move that is likely going to be a 9 game rental, to a position that is compromised due to the QB play and due to that, won't make much of a impact? Giving up a 3rd round or higher pick doesn't set that well with me in that case. Especially when his impact is going to be muted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 12 hours ago, Morneblade said: The thing is aside for Alex's play, the WR's are not the issue. It's Alex's play. Why add another WR when the problem isn't the WR's? That's not cutting you're nose off in spit of your face, it's trying to fix a blown gasket with a spark plug change. You're not actually addressing the real issue. And................the issues as it turns out, is something we're going to have to live with. His contract basically demands he's going to be the starting QB for the next 3 years. Honestly, the best thing we can do is get the best blocking WR's that we have out there most of the time, and run the **** out of the ball. Does it make sense to make a move that is likely going to be a 9 game rental, to a position that is compromised due to the QB play and due to that, won't make much of a impact? Giving up a 3rd round or higher pick doesn't set that well with me in that case. Especially when his impact is going to be muted. OK, take our opinions of Alex out of it. Tate walks in and is the best WR on the team... period. The team is better with him on it. I don't think he's going to solve Alex's shortcomings. I don't think he comes in and we instantly put up 40 against the Falcons. I don't think Alex turns it on simply because he's here. I agree that Alex has not done well enough. He needs to get better, and if he plays better, the offense is better. I agree... but Tate is better than everything we have RIGHT NOW. My thinking is, Alex is going to get more comfortable. We have 9 games left this season. IF my thoughts are right, and Alex is playing at a higher level come week 14 and we're looking a playoff run in the face... I think we're gonna wish we had another weapon. These are the types of moves that people look back at and say "that was a hell of a job looking ahead." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I think Doug banked on players healing up vs adding at the deadline. Crowder is out once again - and I assume they think he will be back sooner than later (I am growing skeptical). Richardson seems to always be limping back. Quinn should be back eventually but I am not sure we'll need him short of someone hitting IR. The run game is expected to carry us until we heal up. I just get the feeling throwing more WRs at Alex is not a good short term fix. I think he needs continuity reps and chemistry more than anything else right now. He looks like he needs the same 5 WRs for a few weeks, to me. Doctson Richardson and Harris are our big 3 this week. Quick and Floyd are the blockers. Its tough not to include TEs and Backs in the discussion here in the WR thread, with Alex at QB. CT, out. Reed is turning into a possession guy but I don't want Reed with a heavy workload every week. So I want to see a bit more of one Jeremy Sprinkle. We have sold him as a blocking guy enough that he is ready to be a Donnie Warren secret weapon. 3rd and short... you heard it here first. If it fails, why didn't we run AP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I get that but I'm not very comfortable with the WR situation were in. Crowder is still hurt and out again this week. He's dealing with an ankle which is about the 2nd most important part of his body, behind his hands, to be successful at what he does with cuts and changing direction out of the slot. P. rich is fighting through injury and is in question. Doctson has taken some steps forward, but who knows where that's gonna go. J. Reed has been healthy thus far, but if there's one thing he's consistent at, it's missing time. CT has now hurt the other ribs, and JP Finlay was on the Junkies this morning and he said this was almost an identical injury to the other side.... he missed a couple weeks last time too. Trey Quinn isn't eligible to play until Houston (i believe). IF, and thats IF everything breaks right, we're getting healthy toward the most important part of the season, but given the history, that concerns me. That's putting a lot of faith in Crowder, Reed, and Thompson, who have not shown the ability to stay healthy. The other thing to consider is that we've now activated Marshall of IR, and plan to activate Quinn. That's it for that option, you only get 2. So even if we needed to dig deep, we couldn't touch Kelley or Simms. Im not throwing WRs at Smith.... that's what were doing now. I'm just trying to improve our team... and WR is likely the biggest weakness. Yes it's reliant on another position but in a vacuum, it can be improved regardless of who is throwing them the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 16 hours ago, jbird said: Team Chemistry WR's are notorious Prima Donna's. Adding another big Ego to the squad could be detrimental to the whole, and demoralizing to the guys that are getting it turned in the right direction. Maybe... It would have been cool to trade for Saints' WR Michael Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, OVCChairman said: OK, take our opinions of Alex out of it. Tate walks in and is the best WR on the team... period. The team is better with him on it. I don't think he's going to solve Alex's shortcomings. I don't think he comes in and we instantly put up 40 against the Falcons. I don't think Alex turns it on simply because he's here. I agree that Alex has not done well enough. He needs to get better, and if he plays better, the offense is better. I agree... but Tate is better than everything we have RIGHT NOW. My thinking is, Alex is going to get more comfortable. We have 9 games left this season. IF my thoughts are right, and Alex is playing at a higher level come week 14 and we're looking a playoff run in the face... I think we're gonna wish we had another weapon. These are the types of moves that people look back at and say "that was a hell of a job looking ahead." Or not. Let's say you bring Golden Tate in. You're going to have to beat Philly's 3rd rounder to get him. So, you're either looking at multiple picks, or a 2nd rounder. That's really high, IMO for a 30 year old WR that is at this point a 9 game rental. And for what? Are we a team that has aspirations for the SB? Realistically? Probably not. And we've given up a bunch for that. And, if you want to keep him, how much do you throw at a 30 year old receiver? Now, let;s get to the actual "play" part. From what we're seeing, it's not the WR's that are not getting open, it's that Alex is not either seeing them, or not throwing them the ball. Is a brand new guy going to change that? Doubtful. Everyone that is saying that Alex will get better has mostly been relying on Alex getting "more comfortable" with the WR's. So, bring a guy that has not had a off season, TC, Pre season, or 7 NFL games with, is all of a sudden going to help with that? Yeah, right. I don't see that happening. And then, I don't think that outside of completion %, Alex is going to really improve all that much, because he's actually playing pretty good for what his history shows us. He's not all of a sudden, playing 20% below average, he's actually playing close to average or above except for completion %. So throw a large investment to get small results just does not make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 We do have an impressive number of injuries at our hands positions. Our "hands" team for onsides, is now probably mostly stone hands DBs. Look no further than the injuries for why Alex is off. CT with the double McRibs - yikes that is terrible. Marshall coming back is good timing at least. Bibbs is not 100%. Jay needs to stop ****ing around and dress 4 backs until all can make it one week without injuries. I still think Perine has decent hands, but as the lone standing member of the Perine Fan Club, take my opine with a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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