Voice_of_Reason

Game of Thrones Season 8

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I think its doable to finish the series in three books, possibly even two if GRRM could somehow get back to the pacing of GoT and Storm of Swords, and not the slow as molasses pace of Feast of Crows and Dance with Dragons   It was obvious even before the later seasons of the show aired, that alot of the plotlines were total red herrings which GRRM is fond of ending rather abruptly and violently (e.g, Robb Stark).  He was good at doing it such a way that it made sense and fit into the plot, and not the pointless/out-of-character way that took place in the show.

Edited by DCSaints_fan

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10 hours ago, Hersh said:

Reflecting back on Season 8 since this thread popped back up, it's even more terrible now than when I watched it. I'm not sure they could've done a worse job. From the dumbest battle strategies to the mysterious ways people survived the white walkers to somehow still having an army after the white walkers to destroying the characters to the poor sets (see finding Jaime and Cersei and realizing they could've just stepped a few feet over and wouldn't have been crushed by rocks). What a cluster the writers made out of what was otherwise a pretty great first six seasons. 

 

 

I love the fact that we are still discussing the proper strategy for medieval armies against an army of zombies. You guys remain the best. The best!!

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7 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

I think its doable to finish the series in three books, possibly even two if GRRM could somehow get back to the pacing of GoT and Storm of Swords, and not the slow as molasses pace of Feast of Crows and Dance with Dragons   It was obvious even before the later seasons of the show aired, that alot of the plotlines were total red herrings which GRRM is fond of ending rather abruptly and violently (e.g, Robb Stark).  He was good at doing it such a way that it made sense and fit into the plot, and not the pointless/out-of-character way that took place in the show.

 

Three books, eh?

 

No problem for a 71 year old man who takes 8 years between books.

 

You've wasted your life!!!!!

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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43 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I love the fact that we are still discussing the proper strategy for medieval armies against an army of zombies. You guys remain the best. The best!!


There is a difference between discussing the best strategies and simply not doing the dumbest thing possible. But hey, you be you cause we wouldn’t want it any other way 😁

Edited by Hersh
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4 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I love the fact that we are still discussing the proper strategy for medieval armies against an army of zombies. You guys remain the best. The best!!

About the only thing they got right in season 8 was killing the night king early in the season so that competent useless plot line died a rather spectacular of not somewhat dark death.  

 

I can’t imagine how boring the season would have been if we had to watch Jon Snow battle  and chance the night king around for several episodes.  

 

I still wish he would have slipped and fallen and impales himself in the off-season and off screen. 

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I know right. Nothing like when the overarching threat of the entire series is killed in a single episode before they do a single ****ing thing. 

 

Who could forget how awesome it was when Sauron and the orcs were killed off screen in the Fellowship of the Ring and the rest of the trilogy was Aragorn and Gandalf staring uneasily at each other over whether or not Aragorn wanted to be king while Saruman sipped wine from atop his tower. 

 

Who didn't love when Joker accidentally blew himself up in the first five minutes of The Dark Knight before causing any chaos or impacting Batman at all?

 

Remember when Bill Paxon and his group of punks killed the Terminator before Kyle Reese even went back in time? 

 

I'm especially fond of Thanos finally showing up in Infinity War after 20 movies of hype and buildup so that Hawkeye could shoot him in the head and kill him with a single arrow 30 minutes after he shows up.

 

.good times. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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The end of the Knight King storyline was always the same - no matter how long you stretched it out. Someone had to kill the Big Bad mano y mano.

 

And it had to be a horribly contrived thing. Because there are always going to be 1 million zombies between you and he and he knows how to kill dragons and also he has a dragon and he can control the weather.

 

You humorless mothers probably don't like the Emperor not paying attention and being thrown down the bottomless shaft too.

 

I hope they re-release Season 8 but with Ewoks this time.

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23 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

The end of the Knight King storyline was always the same - no matter how long you stretched it out. Someone had to kill the Big Bad mano y mano.

 

And it had to be a horribly contrived thing. Because there are always going to be 1 million zombies between you and he and he knows how to kill dragons and also he has a dragon and he can control the weather.

 

You humorless mothers probably don't like the Emperor not paying attention and being thrown down the bottomless shaft too.

 

I hope they re-release Season 8 but with Ewoks this time.

 

George Lucas would have done a better job with Season 8 than D&D

3 hours ago, mcsluggo said:

 

You weren't THAT far off...... 

 

 

 

(children of the forest)

4screenshotjpgcof.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780&strip=all

 

Could work - having the last of the Children of the Forest be the one to kill the Night King would be an interesting twist, since they were the ones to create him

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23 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I know right. Nothing like when the overarching threat of the entire series is killed in a single episode before they do a single ****ing thing. 

The overarching threat was the interaction between human characters.  Nothing to do with the Night King.  At least in the show. I don’t know about the books.  

 

The purpose of that entire plot line was to give Jon Snow a cause.  

 

The real villain is the human condition which forces people to do things they probably shouldn’t. 

 

The real tragedy is that Cercei was essentially relegated to an extra in the final season. 

 

23 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

.good times. 

But those were actually useful plot lines unlike anything about the night king.

 

 

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4 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

George Lucas would have done a better job with Season 8 than D&D

 

Could work - having the last of the Children of the Forest be the one to kill the Night King would be an interesting twist, since they were the ones to create him

 

they should tie string around trees and have the Night King trip over it

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5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The overarching threat was the interaction between human characters.  Nothing to do with the Night King.  At least in the show. I don’t know about the books.  

  

The purpose of that entire plot line was to give Jon Snow a cause.  

 

The real villain is the human condition which forces people to do things they probably shouldn’t. 

 

The real tragedy is that Cercei was essentially relegated to an extra in the final season. 

 

But those were actually useful plot lines unlike anything about the night king.

 

The first scene in the show has the Nights Watchmen encountering the Others.  It is one of the more memorable and creepy scenes in the first season.   It scared the bejesus out of me at least, and I don't scare easy. The leader (young guy) doesn't listen to the older, more experienced rangers who advise him to head back to camp after they found the dead wildings.  They can sense something is not quite right, but the young leader insists they investigate, they run into the Others, two of them die and the third flees south of the wall and is later executed  by Ned (for abandoning the Watch).    Later in the season we have Benjen Stark go missing (but his horse and two of his companions turn up).  The two dead companions come back to life and attack Commander Mormont.

 

I could go on, but it definitely seemed like there was a theme of a supernatural/unnatural/magical force that the kingdom must deal with, presumably by putting aside their petty squabbles over their silly power games, with consequences for Westeros would be catastrophic if they did not.

 

I think this is one case where D&D dropped the ball.  Of course we have no books to compare to, so I can't say for sure. 

 

Its true, GRRM could have been going for "Humans are the real monsters" theme, and the Others/NK could be kind of a red herring.  But that didn't really come across in the show, either.

 

 

Edited by DCSaints_fan

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Quote

Said to focus on the "Age of Heroes" and the first ever battle between man and White Walker, Goldman's prequel — which had filmed a pilot over the summer — will not be advancing to series, The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed. According to sources, Goldman e-mailed the cast to share the news.

 

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From what I read about this, it was going to be a lot about the origin or the white walkers.  The only people who would have REALLY been into that would have been the true fantasy crowd.  

 

Focusing on the Targarians (sp?) is much smarter.  You can have beautiful people, naked beautiful people, lots of fighting and dragons. 

 

Which will have mass appeal.  :)

 

 

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On 10/25/2019 at 4:29 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

The overarching threat was the interaction between human characters.  Nothing to do with the Night King.  At least in the show. I don’t know about the books.  

 

The purpose of that entire plot line was to give Jon Snow a cause.  

 

The real villain is the human condition which forces people to do things they probably shouldn’t. 

 

The real tragedy is that Cercei was essentially relegated to an extra in the final season. 


And the interaction between human characters was resolved when a fireproof woman hopped on her dragon that was birthed from a stone egg In a fire during a blood magic ritual so she could burn a million people alive leading to her death so that a boy that can see all of time at once could be named king. But fantasy elements were somehow a problem? 
 

people don’t like the zombie genre because of zombies. It’s mostly for the way that zombies cause conflict to humans and among humans which creates interesting stories and provides commentary on the human condition. That is the same for fantasy and the same was true for Game of Thrones. 
 

I don’t deny that the political intrigue was a defining and popular characteristic of the show. But there is a reason GOT became a worldwide phenomenon watched by a hundred million people and the West Wing or House of Cards for all their acclaim didn’t. Imo it’s because of the way that it blended those fantasy elements with the political drama and the conflict that both caused on humanity and among humanity. It created something different that audiences had never seen before both in scope and story. 

its disingenuous to imply that you can’t tell a good WW storyline that does it justice when it was the first scene of the entire show without also telling good political intrigue and character stories. 
 

they glossed over that storyline and downplayed or skipped the conclusion of many of the other fantasy elements in the story the last two seasons and those two seasons, particularly the last, flopped massively. 

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

From what I read about this, it was going to be a lot about the origin or the white walkers.  The only people who would have REALLY been into that would have been the true fantasy crowd.  


I’d argue most show watchers would have been really interested in this show had the WW storyline not been butchered on the final season. Nobody gives a **** about them anymore after how badly they were handled in season 8 and their terrible decision then is still costing them as they can’t launch a planned show now due to their incompetence with that storyline 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:


And the interaction between human characters was resolved when a fireproof woman hopped on her dragon that was birthed from a stone egg In a fire during a blood magic ritual so she could burn a million people alive leading to her death so that a boy that can see all of time at once could be named king. But fantasy elements were somehow a problem? 
 

NOBODY liked the ending.  It was universally panned.  Seasons 7 and 8 were a complete waste.  The series basically ended with season 6.  

 

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

people don’t like the zombie genre because of zombies. It’s mostly for the way that zombies cause conflict to humans and among humans which creates interesting stories and provides commentary on the human condition. That is the same for fantasy and the same was true for Game of Thrones. 
 

Right, which is why the zombie element needed to stay way in the background, because it's not really that interesting.  It provided one of the key plot points of WHY Jon Snow was doing what he was doing, and getting him and Danny together, and watching 1 or 2 battles with the dead is kinda cool, but that's the extent of any real mass interest.  The purpose it serves is to enable the human characters to have something to play off of. 

 

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I don’t deny that the political intrigue was a defining and popular characteristic of the show. But there is a reason GOT became a worldwide phenomenon watched by a hundred million people and the West Wing or House of Cards for all their acclaim didn’t. Imo it’s because of the way that it blended those fantasy elements with the political drama and the conflict that both caused on humanity and among humanity. It created something different that audiences had never seen before both in scope and story. 

Somewhat agree.  The fantasy element was very minimal in seasons 1-4.  It popped up here and there, and served as a backdrop for a lot of things, but in a lot of ways it was like the first hour of Jaws, you knew the shark was out there, but you never actually saw it.  

 

The reason the show was so popular was because people became invested in certain characters, and because the show was massively unpredictable.  Lopping off the head of the lead character in the penultimate episode of season 1 was something rather new. 

 

Also, the way they developed the characters so the lines were somewhat blurred between the good guys and the bad guys was very compelling. Characters evolved.  Switched from good to bad to good again.  These were all somewhat new.  

 

Sure, there were some fantasy elements, most notably the dragons, but even those weren't present until the final 5 minutes of season 1.  

 

Also, don't underestimate the attraction of violence and tits.  

 

While the fantasy elements were there in the first seasons, it was more subtle and more world building than in your face.  With the extremely notable exception of the dragons.  

 

It really wasn't until Hardhome when the WW plot REALLY became front and center.  

 

 

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

its disingenuous to imply that you can’t tell a good WW storyline that does it justice when it was the first scene of the entire show without also telling good political intrigue and character stories. 

They did a fine job telling the WW plot line in the first 6 seasons by using it in the background and solely as motivation.  The issue was when they made it a main plot.  MAYBE if they had book material to go off of, they could have done it better.  But nobody (well, except maybe you), wanted a season of Jon and Danny chasing around a zombie trying to figure out how to kill it.

 

Hell, even the prequels on the topic were just killed, because HBO figured out that it just wasn't that compelling a story for the majority of the audience. 

 

The audience is much more interested in the Stark children, the Targs, Lanistes, Boltons, etc.  

 

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

they glossed over that storyline and downplayed or skipped the conclusion of many of the other fantasy elements in the story the last two seasons and those two seasons, particularly the last, flopped massively. 

Completely disagree.  That's not why the seasons flopped.  The reasons the seasons flopped was because the show runners tried to wrap up 3-4 seasons worth of plot and timeline in 2 seasons, and if the end-goal was Danny was the big bad in the end, they completely botched the lead up to that.  

 

More fantasy elements in the last 2 seasons were not going to help.  Better pacing, more time to tell the story would have helped. 

 

If you're suggesting more information on the back-story of the night king would have made him more relevant than just existential threat, maybe.  But the reason the show was popular was because of the human stuff.  

 

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:


I’d argue most show watchers would have been really interested in this show had the WW storyline not been butchered on the final season. Nobody gives a **** about them anymore after how badly they were handled in season 8 and their terrible decision then is still costing them as they can’t launch a planned show now due to their incompetence with that storyline 

I think this is where we disagree.  I don't think that anybody except true fantasy fans, (and while there are a lot of fantasy fans, this show was mass appeal way past those who are interested in fantasy) was really interested in them, their back story, or anything about them other than the fact that they were the impetus for Jon to get together with Danny.  They were the shark in Jaws.  The big evil that was trying to kill everything.  The shark wasn't really that interesting.  Nobody asked "why is the shark trying to eat people."  The reason was obvious: because it's a Shark."  And didn't need to get developed.  The way the characters reacted to the shark was what made the movie extremely compelling.   

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The internet response to S8 is an overreaction. On Reddit the complaints are basically as follows:

 

1. Why is the crippled kid the king? I wanted anime hero Jon Starkgaryen to be the king. He should be married to the hot queen at the end. Every problem should be solved by Jon Starkgaryen winning a 1v1 swordfight with his magic sword. 

 

2. Jon/Daenerys shippers whose only requirement for the show is a generic Disney ending for the couple. These people are the worst. 

 

3. Why is Sansa such a ****, why doesn't she trust Daenerys? All Daenerys did was bring an army and nukes to her doorstep. Not like there's any history of a Stark king dying because of a romantic relationship either. 

 

4. Don't you idiot writers know that Jaime Lannister is on a Redemption Arc? That means he is Bad at first, then it is time for his redemption, then he is Good. He never would have went back to Cersei, real people never make bad decisions like that. 

 

There are a lot of things that weren't great about S8 but I think people are mostly mad they didn't get a generic and predictable ending. The hate is way over the top. 

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On 10/24/2019 at 11:47 AM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Three books, eh?

 

No problem for a 71 year old man who takes 8 years between books.

 

You've wasted your life!!!!!

 

reading a couple of thousand page books is wasting your life..... ?   is that the New Jersey or the West Virginia in you talking?

 

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2 hours ago, PF Chang said:

There are a lot of things that weren't great about S8 but...

 

Why is there a but?

 

Season 8 was dumb and the series is over. People are going to be mad regardless.

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Personally, I was fine with the fates of the major characters.  The problem with S8 was not really the who/what/where but the how. 

 

Magic heat seeking ballistas which take down one of Dany's dragons "by surprise" from like two miles out when fired from woodens ships at sea, which then magically don't work in next episode from prepared positions behind fortified castle walls because reasons

 

The Dothraki riders get wiped out by the Army of the Dead.  But wait, they didn't.   There's like an entire division of them in the very next episode.

 

Most of the characters miraculous survive even when totally surrounded by the AoTD after overrunning Winterfells defenses.

 

Dany's "Turn to the Dark Side" was like, a total WTF moment, barely foreshadowed because Jon Snow was too tired from work to lay down the pipe or something? 

 

It just felt like, they had the major plot points from Martin, but could not connect the dots in any way which made sense.   

 

I was satisifed with Theon, Jon Snow, and Sansa's ending though.   The basement scene with Jaime and Cersei was totally brutal in a very GoT type way.  And the Iron Throne scene with Dany and Jon Snow was really well done. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, PF Chang said:

The internet response to S8 is an overreaction. On Reddit the complaints are basically as follows:

 

1. Why is the crippled kid the king? I wanted anime hero Jon Starkgaryen to be the king. He should be married to the hot queen at the end. Every problem should be solved by Jon Starkgaryen winning a 1v1 swordfight with his magic sword. 

 

2. Jon/Daenerys shippers whose only requirement for the show is a generic Disney ending for the couple. These people are the worst. 

 

3. Why is Sansa such a ****, why doesn't she trust Daenerys? All Daenerys did was bring an army and nukes to her doorstep. Not like there's any history of a Stark king dying because of a romantic relationship either. 

 

4. Don't you idiot writers know that Jaime Lannister is on a Redemption Arc? That means he is Bad at first, then it is time for his redemption, then he is Good. He never would have went back to Cersei, real people never make bad decisions like that. 

 

There are a lot of things that weren't great about S8 but I think people are mostly mad they didn't get a generic and predictable ending. The hate is way over the top. 

 

Nah. 

 

It was terrible, and not because a minority of viewers had some bad ideas of how it should've ended. 

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