2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Long n Left]

22 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

I am sure I'm in the minority here and probably get blasted and more than likely rightfully so but I am just not feeling Roquan Smith. Watching him the other night as well as several other players I saw the potential of what Pro Offensive Lines could do to him. When a guard got to the second level on him he was completely and I mean completely taken out of the play. He could not get away once the guard engaged. He looked like a child trying to wrestle candy away from an adult. To his credit he made several big plays in the second half to redeem himself which is a very good thing. Now that could be some good line play or the inability of Smith to break blocks very well. He reminds me a lot of our own Zach Brown. I don't think he is that fantastic either. I know light the torches and get the pitchforks for that too. Both can tackle and provide that big hit but in coverage or traffic he is woeful. I could be wrong and as I said probably am but I don't dig the guy at all. Personal preference I guess.

 

Of all the football that was on New Years day the guy I enjoyed the most was Maurice Hurst of Michigan. That burst he has off the line at 280 plus is a thing to behold. Is able to get penetration with it and not get hung up. Can collapse the pocket or provide rush on the edge. Yes is stout in the run too. He was just doing everything and I think he is flying really low on the radar. I still hope we go DL with the first pick and its Vea but Hurst is my man crush right now.

I like Smith, but I do think he's gotten overvalued due to an overall strong D unit he plays with, and a less than stellar schedule. 

 

I've been banging the drum for Malik Jefferson for a while now, and think he is much better value in round 2 than Smith in round 1. Every time I've watched Jefferson (6 or 7 games now) he just stands out. Sideline to sideline speed like a heat seeking missile. He doesn't jump out with the teeth rattling hits, but he puts his guy on the turf...name of the game. 

 

Also with you on Brown, that he is a solid pro, but definitely has some weaknesses in his game. For me, ILB is a must upgrade this offseason. Many people talk about the NG in a 3-4, but for me, every great 3-4 defenses revolve around their LB's, inside and out.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

To me, after Cleveland and NYG go QB, Denver, NYJ, and an Arizona trade up are the teams that could go QB. With some solid QB's available in FA, that could remove one or two of those teams off the table. Is it possible Josh Allen could fall to us? I tend to doubt it. Would we trade up for a QB if Cousins leaves? No idea. 

 

Count me as someone who would be very grateful if Josh Allen does not fall to us! 

 

If Cousins leaves I think there is a very good chance we would/do trade up to get a QB to make sure teams like Arizona don't trade ahead of us to take the 3rd QB off the board (I'm assuming Rosen and Darnold go 1 and 2). I see Mayfield as the 3rd guy - but it's likely different teams see this very differently.

[Long n Left]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was going through the defensive stats the other day.  We are decent at stopping the pass but atrocious at stopping the run.  Ziggy Hood's score with PFF is abysmal.  I haven't watched Vea that much but like the idea of him -- a Snacks Harrison type run stuffer with more pass rush to him than Harrison.  

 

 

For value, check out Poona Ford. Good strength at POA and can give a little push against the pass. Poor man's Aaron Donald, for me. Probably 4th to 5th round pick.

[Blanka]

43 minutes ago, Long n Left said:

For value, check out Poona Ford. Good strength at POA and can give a little push against the pass. Poor man's Aaron Donald, for me. Probably 4th to 5th round pick.

 

 

Watched Texas a few times and Ford always stood out. Especially the USC game

[Bonez3]

Damn, just watched the OU game versus Ohio St., Mayfield looked like a mix between Brees and R. Wilson.

 

Can't stand the 'pseudo-attitude' thing, so millennial IMO. But wow, I think he is the best QB in the class. 

 

I have to redact the above post that I would be avoiding watching his film.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

It's interesting how much Kirk can have an impact on this off-season across the board. He could:

- Sign a long-term deal to stay in DC

- Sign a long-term deal with Arizona

- Sign a long-term deal with Denver

- Sign a long-term deal with NYJ (least likely)

 

Also, let's not forget that Alex Smith, Case Keenum, and Sam Bradford will likely hit the FA market as well. I could see Smith going to Arizona or Denver as well.

 

Those two names, plus possibly Bradford (injury prone so a team might view him more as a stop-gap) could sway what teams end up drafting a QB.

[clskinsfan]

23 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It's interesting how much Kirk can have an impact on this off-season across the board. He could:

- Sign a long-term deal to stay in DC

- Sign a long-term deal with Arizona

- Sign a long-term deal with Denver

- Sign a long-term deal with NYJ (least likely)

 

Also, let's not forget that Alex Smith, Case Keenum, and Sam Bradford will likely hit the FA market as well. I could see Smith going to Arizona or Denver as well.

 

Those two names, plus possibly Bradford (injury prone so a team might view him more as a stop-gap) could sway what teams end up drafting a QB.

 

Good post. I would think Bradford, Keenum or Smith would end up here as a stop gap if we lose Cousins. Although Gruden swears he would be comfortable with Mccoy. God help us. 

 

If we lose Kirk I would think it is a lock that we will be drafting a QB in the top 2 rounds to groom for a season or two. I know a lot of people are saying this draft is not as deep at QB as it is being hyped to be. But I have started watching QB film and this draft is DEEP at the QB position. Rudolph, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, Mayfield, Allen, Falk and Fitzgerald all have a chance to be starters in the NFL IMO. And those are the only film I have watched so far. Some of them are going to need more work/time than others. But they ALL have the talent to start in this league.

 

I should have QB film finished this weekend and will put out my top ten list then.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

But I have started watching QB film and this draft is DEEP at the QB position. Rudolph, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, Mayfield, Allen, Falk and Fitzgerald all have a chance to be starters in the NFL IMO. And those are the only film I have watched so far. Some of them are going to need more work/time than others. But they ALL have the talent to start in this league.

QB is the most important position. But I still think we've got quite a few holes to fill and the draft is the best way to do that. I'd rather lock in Kirk long-term and pay him and then use the draft to keep building the defense and offensive weapons ... rather than sign Bradford for 1-2 years and draft a QB to groom. I guess that's not a terrible situation to be in, and it secures the QB position both short and hopefully long-term, but you do lose the resources of that 1st or 2nd round pick that could contribute right away. If you tell me that Bradford is our QB this year and we have Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield on the bench learning and we've spent a 1st rounder, I wouldn't be mad. I would just hope we used some of the FA money to get some young impact guys on both defense at maybe at WR.

 

Allen Robinson is one guy that, if Jacksonville let's him walk, I'd be okay paying good money to. He's just 24.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Have we gotten the sense that Chase Roullier is the future at Center? Seemed to play well this year as a rookie, which tends to mean very good things moving forward. Maybe the OL solution are in-house. Kick Long to LG ... and then spend a draft pick in the mid-rounds on a Tackle/Guard combo who could be groomed as a versatile back-up who could someday start at LG

[fordranger76]

18 hours ago, Long n Left said:

I've been banging the drum for Malik Jefferson for a while now, and think he is much better value in round 2 than Smith in round 1. Every time I've watched Jefferson (6 or 7 games now) he just stands out. Sideline to sideline speed like a heat seeking missile. He doesn't jump out with the teeth rattling hits, but he puts his guy on the turf...name of the game. 

 

Also with you on Brown, that he is a solid pro, but definitely has some weaknesses in his game. For me, ILB is a must upgrade this offseason. Many people talk about the NG in a 3-4, but for me, every great 3-4 defenses revolve around their LB's, inside and out.

To be honest I am not thrilled with any of the inside backers. I might just be expecting too much out of them I dunno. I actually think they will use Vigil as the starter in Brown's role. He was actually pretty decent and the scary thing is the defense started to get better with him taking over for Brown. I think Jefferson could be a 3rd rounder to be honest. Lot of other defensive talent out there to go before him. However due to the low stock of inside backers I could see late second. 

[CTskin]

40 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

QB is the most important position. But I still think we've got quite a few holes to fill and the draft is the best way to do that. I'd rather lock in Kirk long-term and pay him and then use the draft to keep building the defense and offensive weapons ... rather than sign Bradford for 1-2 years and draft a QB to groom. I guess that's not a terrible situation to be in, and it secures the QB position both short and hopefully long-term, but you do lose the resources of that 1st or 2nd round pick that could contribute right away. If you tell me that Bradford is our QB this year and we have Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield on the bench learning and we've spent a 1st rounder, I wouldn't be mad. I would just hope we used some of the FA money to get some young impact guys on both defense at maybe at WR.

 

Allen Robinson is one guy that, if Jacksonville let's him walk, I'd be okay paying good money to. He's just 24.

This team doesn't have as many holes as it seems. We keep disregarding the fact that we had 21 guys on IR (and others injured by not IRd)... If we make a list of actual "needs," it's not too long: WR, LG, DL, ILB, possibly RB. If Roullier can take over the reigns at C then we can kick Long over to LG. And if we re-sign Brown and Foster, which I believe we'll do, then we'll be all set at ILB. In regard to DL, we need to remember how much better Leonnidis and the rest of the D looked when Allen was in; he makes the guys around him better. Still, I wouldn't mind taking a stud in the 1st to sure up the run D. Sidenote- Ziggy's a great guy and all, but we need to part ways with him; one of the worst rated DL's in the game. Win in the trenches, keep the ILBs clean, the whole D will improve. So, long story short, we had a couple holes and a ton of injuries. 

 

You made a great point on an earlier post which many people seemed to overlook- the QB free agent market is actually pretty strong. Forget Brees because he'll re-sign, but Alex Smith, Bridgewater, Keenum, Bradford, Tyrod, Dalton... Quite a few teams will be less QB desperate come draft time. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, CTskin said:

This team doesn't have as many holes as it seems. . And if we re-sign Brown and Foster, which I believe we'll do, then we'll be all set at ILB. In regard to DL, we need to remember how much better Leonnidis and the rest of the D looked when Allen was in; he makes the guys around him better. Still, I wouldn't mind taking a stud in the 1st to sure up the run D.

You can never have too many studs. And I agree with your sentiment. I think the DL with Allen in there was night and day. Not to mention that we lost NT Phil Taylor in the pre-season. If we bring back Taylor and he's healthy, and Allen is healthy, we're instantly better along the DL. But if we had the chance to put another 1st or 2nd round DL in there to create a strong rotation, I do it. I don't think we NEED a NT ... and I know some think we could target the NT from Washington at #13 ... but I would suspect that we'd, scheme-wise, be best off bringing back Taylor and/or drafting a NT in the mid-rounds, rather than the 1st. But you make a good argument as far as the DL is concerned.

 

As for ILB, if you add a stud like Smith or the guy from Texas to pair with ZB, it would definitely be an upgrade over Foster, as much as I agree that we'd be "okay" there with those 2 in the fold.

 

Seriously, bring back Kirk, Long, Gallette or Murphy, and Zach Brown and spend whatever $$ you have left on a veteran CB and a WR. Hopefully Allen Robinson can hit the market. Otherwise spend a little less and "settle" for Marqise Lee or Paul Richardson type guys. Sammy Watkins could also hit free-agency, and he seems to have his head on straight now. He'd be a dynamic weapon here as well, and probably at a slight discount.

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

You can never have too many studs. And I agree with your sentiment. I think the DL with Allen in there was night and day. Not to mention that we lost NT Phil Taylor in the pre-season. If we bring back Taylor and he's healthy, and Allen is healthy, we're instantly better along the DL. But if we had the chance to put another 1st or 2nd round DL in there to create a strong rotation, I do it. I don't think we NEED a NT ... and I know some think we could target the NT from Washington at #13 ... but I would suspect that we'd, scheme-wise, be best off bringing back Taylor and/or drafting a NT in the mid-rounds, rather than the 1st. But you make a good argument as far as the DL is concerned.

 

As for ILB, if you add a stud like Smith or the guy from Texas to pair with ZB, it would definitely be an upgrade over Foster, as much as I agree that we'd be "okay" there with those 2 in the fold.

 

Seriously, bring back Kirk, Long, Gallette or Murphy, and Zach Brown and spend whatever $$ you have left on a veteran CB and a WR. Hopefully Allen Robinson can hit the market. Otherwise spend a little less and "settle" for Marqise Lee or Paul Richardson type guys. Sammy Watkins could also hit free-agency, and he seems to have his head on straight now. He'd be a dynamic weapon here as well, and probably at a slight discount.

My concern is the ability for us to rely on Taylor. I like what I've seen from him, but he's only played 16 games once, his rookie season... he played 15 games in his 3rd season but missed half of the other two season.  I hope he gets healthy, and I hope we can rely on him, but his track record leads me to question it.  

 

Personally i want a stud in the middle there.  Do we 'need' a stud in the middle?  No probably not, we can get by without it.... but I want one so bad.  I want an acreage eater in there that swallows linemen like he's Kirby.  Take Brandon Scherff, clone him, and put him at DT, that's what I want in the middle. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

8 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

Personally i want a stud in the middle there.  Do we 'need' a stud in the middle?  No probably not, we can get by without it.... but I want one so bad.  I want an acreage eater in there that swallows linemen like he's Kirby.  Take Brandon Scherff, clone him, and put him at DT, that's what I want in the middle. 

The market for a pure NT is definitely cheap. I forget what Poe signed for last year on his one-year deal with KC, but it wasn't for much. I wouldn't mind locking in a guy like that to a multi-year deal. Of course, the concerns there are over durability at that size. But I'd give a Poe $4-5 million a year to occupy the middle there.

 

NT has also been devalued in the draft. I feel like you can get a good one in the 2nd-4th rounds. I'm talking PURE NT ... not guys who can play NT and 3T. Like, D'Ron Payne could be seen as a NT in our system, but also a 3 down guy who could also play 3T.

[SprintBomb]

I would rather roll with Mccoy than trade up in the draft for a QB. I'll never get over the RG3 trade

[OVCChairman]

10 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

The market for a pure NT is definitely cheap. I forget what Poe signed for last year on his one-year deal with KC, but it wasn't for much. I wouldn't mind locking in a guy like that to a multi-year deal. Of course, the concerns there are over durability at that size. But I'd give a Poe $4-5 million a year to occupy the middle there.

 

NT has also been devalued in the draft. I feel like you can get a good one in the 2nd-4th rounds. I'm talking PURE NT ... not guys who can play NT and 3T. Like, D'Ron Payne could be seen as a NT in our system, but also a 3 down guy who could also play 3T.

You're right, everything is 'hybrid' anymore.  Almost all positions are occupied by someone who can do multiple techniques, instead of guys who specialize in a specific one.  Trent Williams may be the only guy on either line who has a position and only plays it, only changing in emergency situations.  

 

I think there's something to be said for a true NT type guy.  That doesn't mean he has to be the ONLY player to line up at DT, but to have an angry  in the middle that drools when he talks and eats the cartilage off his chicken legs.  

[CTskin]

37 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

I would rather roll with Mccoy than trade up in the draft for a QB. I'll never get over the RG3 trade

The thing is that if we roll with McCoy then we'll be trading up also...

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

You can never have too many studs. And I agree with your sentiment. I think the DL with Allen in there was night and day. Not to mention that we lost NT Phil Taylor in the pre-season. If we bring back Taylor and he's healthy, and Allen is healthy, we're instantly better along the DL. But if we had the chance to put another 1st or 2nd round DL in there to create a strong rotation, I do it. I don't think we NEED a NT ... 

 

As for ILB, if you add a stud like Smith or the guy from Texas to pair with ZB, it would definitely be an upgrade over Foster, as much as I agree that we'd be "okay" there with those 2 in the fold.

 

Seriously, bring back Kirk, Long, Gallette or Murphy, and Zach Brown and spend whatever $$ you have left on a veteran CB and a WR. Hopefully Allen Robinson can hit the market. Otherwise spend a little less and "settle" for Marqise Lee or Paul Richardson type guys. Sammy Watkins could also hit free-agency, and he seems to have his head on straight now. He'd be a dynamic weapon here as well, and probably at a slight discount.

Yea we're in the same boat in regard to the DL. Assuming guys stay healthy and Ziggy isn't on the field, we'll be vastly improved. Allen + Taylor for a whole season is highly unlikely due to injuries, but whoa that'd be fun. @OVCChairman I'm with you 100% in wanting a beast NT. Guys like Fletcher Cox and Snacks Harrison can single handedly shut down the run game when they turn it on.

 

Brown & Foster formed an above average duo (and I didn't hate what I saw out of Spaight and Vigil). I agree that the position could be upgraded, but if those guys are re-signed, it certainly wouldn't qualify as a need.

 

WR is tricky. I felt like every other game I either missed Garcon or DJax. At this point I still don't know the answer as to who we missed more- the possession guy or the spread the field guy? With Doctson and Crowder and a stable of JAGs with some potential, I'd prefer to spend my money on one stud, quality not quantity, the opposite of what we did in signing the Macs last off-season, but please no Sammy Watkins.

 

My original point was that we don't have many needs. We have possible upgrades, but very few glaring holes.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

My original point was that we don't have many needs. We have possible upgrades, but very few glaring holes.

Yep. Agree on all fronts. I read a good article on Watkins redeeming himself and maturing and not liking the version of himself in Buffalo. He may have turned the corner and has loads of talent. Understand the injury concerns there, but I think he'd come at a discount to what his skill-set offers. I'm not sure Allen Robinson hits the market, but the Jags do have some young WRs to build around without him. They may let him walk, especially coming off the ACL. But he can be a game-changer, and I'd pay up for him, especially since he's just 24. I don't see us being able to "fix" our WR position through the draft, since it's just so hard to find an instant play-maker rookie. I was so high on JuJu last year. Bummer. Anyway, I'm not giving up on Doctson. Nor am I giving up on Crowder. Hell, I wouldn't even mind bringing back Pryor for another year (cheap) because I think he still has potential as well. It just didn't materialize this year. I do think we have to go get another weapon to inject into the group, but I wouldn't mind also bringing back Pryor for a shot in the dark

[PlayAction]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Have we gotten the sense that Chase Roullier is the future at Center? Seemed to play well this year as a rookie, which tends to mean very good things moving forward. Maybe the OL solution are in-house. Kick Long to LG ... and then spend a draft pick in the mid-rounds on a Tackle/Guard combo who could be groomed as a versatile back-up who could someday start at LG

 

Yes Roullier seems like he will win out at Center.  I'm not sure why everyone thinks Long can succeed at LG.  Call me a cynic but I think there's a reason he couldn't win either G position since he was originally drafted

 

[PlayAction]

12 minutes ago, CTskin said:

I'm with you 100% in wanting a beast NT. Guys like Fletcher Cox and Snacks Harrison can single handedly shut down the run game when they turn it on.

 

Brown & Foster formed an above average duo (and I didn't hate what I saw out of Spaight and Vigil). I agree that the position could be upgraded, but if those guys are re-signed, it certainly wouldn't qualify as a need.

 

WR is tricky. I felt like every other game I either missed Garcon or DJax. At this point I still don't know the answer as to who we missed more- the possession guy or the spread the field guy? With Doctson and Crowder and a stable of JAGs with some potential, I'd prefer to spend my money on one stud, quality not quantity, the opposite of what we did in signing the Macs last off-season, but please no Sammy Watkins.

 

My original point was that we don't have many needs. We have possible upgrades, but very few glaring holes.

 

When people say beast NT I'm not sure if we all have the same concept.  A big 340+lb mountain in the middle of a 3-4 Okie front?  Or, a 310lb DT that can play the run and pass like Fletcher Cox?  A fast paced offense makes one-dimensional players a liability.  I don't think the Skins need the "big" guy anymore.  But every team would like a guy like Fletcher Cox.  

 

I would prefer not to draft a WR in rounds 1-3.  If the Skins find a BPA WR in the later rounds with a higher upside than the current roster then I'm all for it.  Otherwise, a veteran WR (not a one year wonder) would be a big plus.  But those guys are expensive.

 

ILB - I'm not as optimistic as you are on the ILB group.  I think Brown made a big difference and I hope he's re-signed.  But everyone else seems to be JAG and Spraight doesn't seem very consistent.  Skins need a playmaker on the DL or ILB in my opinion.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

When people say beast NT I'm not sure if we all have the same concept.  A big 340+lb mountain in the middle of a 3-4 Okie front?  Or, a 310lb DT that can play the run and pass like Fletcher Cox?  A fast paced offense makes one-dimensional players a liability.  I don't think the Skins need the "big" guy anymore.  But every team would like a guy like Fletcher Cox.   

Guys that fit that profile, at least in the 1st round and possibly #13? Christian Wilkins (6'4 310) and Da'Ron Payne (6'2 319) ... although Vita Vea (6'5 332) is at least reported to be a better version of Danny Shelton and resemble Haloti Ngata ... and could probably play 3 downs.

[“Misdirection”]

 

Plays with a mean streak, Jerod Evans made a living last year in the redzone running behind this guy. Plays LG. Plug and Play.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Teller is Walter Football's 14th ranked Guard with a 3rd-5th round grade. In my "fan expectations" this year I'm going to go with the lower round of the range. Sure, players fall, and can be drafted in the middle or end of their range ... but all-too-often there's a prospect with a 2-4 grade, for example, that I get hopes up for getting in the 3rd or 4th who is long-gone by that time. So for Teller, we may need a 3rd.

[CTskin]

36 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

When people say beast NT I'm not sure if we all have the same concept.  A big 340+lb mountain in the middle of a 3-4 Okie front?  Or, a 310lb DT that can play the run and pass like Fletcher Cox?  A fast paced offense makes one-dimensional players a liability.  I don't think the Skins need the "big" guy anymore.  But every team would like a guy like Fletcher Cox.  

 

I would prefer not to draft a WR in rounds 1-3.  If the Skins find a BPA WR in the later rounds with a higher upside than the current roster then I'm all for it.  Otherwise, a veteran WR (not a one year wonder) would be a big plus.  But those guys are expensive.

 

ILB - I'm not as optimistic as you are on the ILB group.  I think Brown made a big difference and I hope he's re-signed.  But everyone else seems to be JAG and Spraight doesn't seem very consistent.  Skins need a playmaker on the DL or ILB in my opinion.  

Beast = dominant... I certainly wouldn't be upset if a smaller beast like Gerald McCoy or Aaron Donald fell into our lap. When it comes to DL, we simply need guys who do the controlling, not the ones who are getting controlled. 

 

Yea we agree there, I'd address the WR hole in FA. I'd also like to throw a 4th+ round dart like we did with Robert Davis.

 

Again, I think our ILBs looked a lot worse after Allen went down. Ziggy and Lanier got manhandled in one-on-ones vs the run; no ILBs can make up for that flaw over the course of an entire game.

 

We agree about welcoming a playmaker on the DL to pair with Allen. I was disgusted with our spending of $10M/yr on the Macs last year, who are essentially JAGs, instead of spending that funding on one stud. 

[PlayAction]

52 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Teller is Walter Football's 14th ranked Guard with a 3rd-5th round grade. t I get hopes up for getting in the 3rd or 4th who is long-gone by that time. So for Teller, we may need a 3rd.

 

His draft stock will depend upon his performance in the Senior bowl and the combine. If he's really the 14th ranked Guard after all of the evaluations then he should be later in the draft - I can't imagine that many Guards selected before the middle of the 3rd round.  It happens every year though - you hope for a player to be available in the middle of the 4th and he's picked at the top of the 4th.  I always love Hokies - he's one to watch.