Fergasun Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I am a Christian and the church should not attack the LGBTQ community. While I do believe in sin, I also believe that Jesus gives us personal freedom, and I think using it to prosecute people who are different is hateful.. I can live in a country, under a Constutution that protects gay marriage and believe that it does not reflect poorly on me or restruct me from telling them the core tenants of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, nor.believing that LBGTQ people can have a relationship with Jesus. Sinners come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and sexual orientation and even different spectrums. Lust, fornication outside of marriage, apathy, divorce and faithfullessness are bigger threats to marriage in America. I cannot stand on The Bible as jjustification to deny the God created sexuality of others.. and the God given freedom of others to have their own pesonal relationship with God.. there is nothing in the Bible that indicates Adam and Eve is the only way... ratber we are instructed to love. I choose to love and accept the LGBQT people as humans with dignity and an.experience that is different than mine.. not as a group of defects that need fixing. The End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I was taught that Jesus loves everyone. Oddly enough, he's the ultimate liberal. Conservatives don't seem to understand that. What? You guys knew where this was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Counterpoint: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Double counterpoint Leviticus 20:13 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. But I see where you get the idea: 1 John 4:20 “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother(sister), he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother(sister) whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I'll say it YET AGAIN. John 3:16 doesn't exclude anyone. It doesn't say "whosoever is heterosexual and pays their bills on time and puts money in the plate at church, sings in the choir, bakes pies for the bake sale"... It just says "whosoever". And that's what He meant. I love the bumper sticker that says "JESUS WAS A LIBERAL"...because He was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: I'll say it YET AGAIN. John 3:16 doesn't exclude anyone. It doesn't say "whosoever is heterosexual and pays their bills on time and puts money in the plate at church, sings in the choir, bakes pies for the bake sale"... It just says "whosoever". And that's what He meant. I love the bumper sticker that says "JESUS WAS A LIBERAL"...because He was. Sure, but people exclude themselves. Context is important, taking one verse from the bible out of context is used to excuse a lot of things. What does whosoever believes in him mean in context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Jesus died on the cross so that we can stone the adulteress. Yes, HE told HER to "sin no more"... but that was after the crowds departed. Only one will sit at the judgement seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, Fergasun said: Jesus died on the cross so that we can stone the adulteress. Yes, HE told HER to "sin no more"... but that was after the crowds departed. Only one will sit at the judgement seat. Of course, we are not the judge, God is. And we should be careful not to judge and also careful to love as Christ did. But at the same time we should be careful to follow Gods law and not the worlds. For example, Im not going to act like someone cheating on their spouse is okay and that I approve of it. Im not going to be okay with my son being a thief. We can condemn what God says is sin with love and not hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Sure, but people exclude themselves. Context is important, taking one verse from the bible out of context is used to excuse a lot of things. What does whosoever believes in him mean in context? In two words, not Methodism. As much as I have admired John Wesley...the last sermon I got to hear my dad preach was "Faith Without Works is Dead", and I don't believe that for one second. If I believe, I do good works just by being...it's in the heart...I care, I have compassion and empathy toward my fellow men and beasts, so to speak. I'm a good steward of the Earth. I do not need to boast, I just do it. If I believe my works get me into heaven (just to show off and do the most) then my works are worth nothing there, because it wasn't in my heart, it was in my desire for status, recognition for having done just what I should have anyway, and having my name on things, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Of course, we are not the judge, God is. And we should be careful not to judge and also careful to love as Christ did. But at the same time we should be careful to follow Gods law and not the worlds. For example, Im not going to act like someone cheating on their spouse is okay and that I approve of it. Im not going to be okay with my son being a thief. We can condemn what God says is sin with love and not hate. You don't have to "be ok" with something a person does to love and respect them the way Jesus asks you to. In fact, that's the ultimate test isn't it? It's easy to love and respect someone who lives the way you think they should. There's no challenge in that. that was how I understood the teachings. I'm far from an expert on the bible and Jesus' teachings though. (Just adding on, I think we're in agreement) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I was taught that Jesus loves everyone. Oddly enough, he's the ultimate liberal. Conservatives don't seem to understand that. What? You guys knew where this was going. That implies that conservatives don't love people. Jesus was liberal on things and conservative on others. For instance, he was against divorce. Yet a liberal would tell you its ok to divorce, even though no-fault divorce is one of the most unloving things in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Jesus railed against the Pharisees and Saducees for their hypocrisy and self-righteousness. Christians should especially be careful about seeing the splinter in the eye of another but miss the tree branch in their own. Be righteous but not not self righteous. I think that's in the Old Testament. An Omnipotent God doesn't need a human enforcement squad. 18 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Of course, we are not the judge, God is. And we should be careful not to judge and also careful to love as Christ did. But at the same time we should be careful to follow Gods law and not the worlds. For example, Im not going to act like someone cheating on their spouse is okay and that I approve of it. Im not going to be okay with my son being a thief. We can condemn what God says is sin with love and not hate. Still have yet to see a preacher or westboro picket "God Hates Adulterers" or "God Hates White Collar criminals". But that's the hypocrisy of my fellow Christians. Spend more time worrying about living your own life correctly, ministering to those that need help and I guarantee you'll have less time judging others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: In two words, not Methodism. As much as I have admired John Wesley...the last sermon I got to hear my dad preach was "Faith Without Works is Dead", and I don't believe that for one second. If I believe, I do good works just by being...it's in the heart...I care, I have compassion and empathy toward my fellow men and beasts, so to speak. I'm a good steward of the Earth. I do not need to boast, I just do it. If I believe my works get me into heaven (just to show off and do the most) then my works are worth nothing there, because it wasn't in my heart, it was in my desire for status, recognition for having done just what I should have anyway, and having my name on things, etc. I agree that works should not be to show off, in fact in the bible those who pray in public for all to see are condemned for it. I think in context that's not what is being said. The point is if you have faith but there is no fruit, IE works, then what is your faith? Not that works save you or are the most important. But rather when you have faith in God, when you believe in him, naturally works will flow from that. Not to be seen and to glorify yourself but out of a love of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, Elessar78 said: Jesus railed against the Pharisees and Saducees for their hypocrisy and self-righteousness. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. Quote Christians should especially be careful about seeing the splinter in the eye of another but miss the tree branch in their own. Be righteous but not not self righteous. I think that's in the Old Testament. An Omnipotent God doesn't need a human enforcement squad. Still have yet to see a preacher or westboro picket "God Hates Adulterers" or "God Hates White Collar criminals". But that's the hypocrisy of my fellow Christians. Spend more time worrying about living your own life correctly, ministering to those that need help and I guarantee you'll have less time judging others. You're first mistake is confusing Westboro with Christians. The bolded I agree with wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, tshile said: You don't have to "be ok" with something a person does to love and respect them the way Jesus asks you to. In fact, that's the ultimate test isn't it? It's easy to love and respect someone who lives the way you think they should. There's no challenge in that. that was how I understood the teachings. I'm far from an expert on the bible and Jesus' teachings though. (Just adding on, I think we're in agreement) Yeah thats the point I was making as well. Saying something is wrong, saying it is a sin, can and should be done in love. Condemning sin doesnt mean hating people. I am an awful sinner, thankfully God loved me and changed my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 OK, @MisterPinstripe, we're on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 In case anybody wants to actually READ it. https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement Raise your hand or like this post if you read it prior to judging the signers or what it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I am confused what does nashville have to do with anything? And I agree, nobody should judge anyone, except liberals. They have carte blanche to judge everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, Zguy28 said: In case anybody wants to actually READ it. https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement I was really confused by why Nashville was in the title. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, zoony said: I am confused what does nashville have to do with anything? And I agree, nobody should judge anyone, except liberals. They have carte blanche to judge everyone Just idiots. And chicks with dicks. Oh wait, that's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said: Double counterpoint Leviticus 20:13 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. It also says if a son curses at his parents, he is to be taken to the town center and put to death. No child left behind? If a man is deeply in debt, he can sell his daughter into slavery. If two men are fighting and a woman tries to break it up by grabbing one of them by the testicles, she is to have her hand cut off, and no one must feel any remorse over it. There is no prohibition/commandment against lesbians in the OT, other than they are not allowed to serve as archers in the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Just now, Riggo-toni said: It also says if a son curses at his parents, he is to be taken to the town center and put to death. No child left behind? If a man is deeply in debt, he can sell his daughter into slavery. If two men are fighting and a woman tries to break it up by grabbing one of them by the testicles, she is to have her hand cut off, and no one must feel any remorse over it. There is no prohibition/commandment against lesbians in the OT, other than they are not allowed to serve as archers in the army. The Old & New Testaments are soooooooo very different, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, zoony said: And I agree, nobody should judge anyone, except liberals. They have carte blanche to judge everyone Everybody judges, and we should. It's what we judge people on that matters. Judging on skin color, not ok. Judging on how they treat people, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said: son curses at parents, taken to the town center and put to death. man in debt, sell daughter into slavery. woman grab by the testicles, hand cut off. lesbians not allowed to serve as archers. Well now see this I all agree with. No archery for you, ya lesbians!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Everybody judges, and we should. It's what we judge people on that matters. Judging on skin color, not ok. Judging on how they treat people, fine. Judging is a critical instinct. That's how we knew tiger = bad. It's unavoidable. Those that couldn't judge thousands of years ago were weeded out of the gene pool. It's how you judge and what you do with it that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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