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Presidential Election :11/3/2020- The Impotus Puppet vs The Rise of BootyWalker & some other Dems

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, twa said:

 

So why would electing a gay or female be a problem for the Dems?

 

The fact that he is gay is not a problem for for-real Dems.  It's a problem for some swing voters.  The fact that that makes him more likely to lose is the problem for Dems, their most important factor right now is who is most likely to defeat Trump (which is moving people towards the straight old white men). 

 

Here is how a recent article in the Post summarized them:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/18/swing-voters-hold-key-heres-who-they-are/?utm_term=.b740f18f8d63

 

Quote

First, they are mostly Republicans and independents. Second, they don’t particularly care for Democrats as a rule. Put another way, the swing voters in the upcoming election will be made up of two groups of people — conflicted Trump supporters who dislike Trump personally, but who approve of the job he is doing as president; and voters who currently have an unfavorable view of the president, but who could be persuaded to vote for him if they find the Democratic nominee unacceptable.

 

Edited by PleaseBlitz

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17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Thats the point tho. That was Obama too.

 

Foreign policy depth sways a lot of voters.

*

 

Dems are every group that has ever fought for their rights in this country. 

 

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3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

It's not a problem for for-real Dems.  It's a problem for some swing voters.  Here is how a recent article in the Post summarized them:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/18/swing-voters-hold-key-heres-who-they-are/?utm_term=.b740f18f8d63

 

 

I’ve been saying this from the start. It wasn’t well received here. I’m glad the idea is catching on. 

 

The dems seem to want to make this an election about how the country is way more progressive than how our government currently operates, and I think that’s not true. I think the election should solely be about how Trump is unfit for the position, and that the GOP is destructive to our country at the moment. 

 

I think the dems are going to **** this up (then subsequently blame their **** up on the country being full of racists.)

 

basically 2020-2024 will be much like 2016-2020. So hope you enjoyed the first four years cause we’ll get 4 more of it. 

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Just now, tshile said:

I’ve been saying this from the start. It wasn’t well received here. I’m glad the idea is catching on. 

 

The dems seem to want to make this an election about how the country is way more progressive than how our government currently operates, and I think that’s not true

 

 

 

I sort of disagree, I think the bigger issue when it comes to progressives is that they simply find every excuse not to show up and vote.  How many folks who consider them "Center-right" sit things out because of Trump or McCain or Romney, vs how many progressives/leftists/whatever refuse to vote for anyone who doesn't meet their litmus test?  The right-wing tends to fall in line during election time where as the Left tends to retreat to their corner and pout. 

 

Now I would concede the point that those who don't vote don't belong in the equation period, but I was more making the point that I do think there are more Dems/Progressives/Left/Whatever else under the umbrella than the other side.  

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9 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Foreign policy depth sways a lot of voters.

😂

yeah so does in depth speeches about economics and tax policy

 

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1 minute ago, tshile said:

I’ve been saying this from the start. It wasn’t well received here. I’m glad the idea is catching on. 

 

The dems seem to want to make this an election about how the country is way more progressive than how our government currently operates, and I think that’s not true. I think the election should solely be about how Trump is unfit for the position, and that the GOP is destructive to our country at the moment. 

 

I think the dems are going to **** this up (then subsequently blame their **** up on the country being full of racists.)

 

basically 2020-2024 will be much like 2016-2020. So hope you enjoyed the first four years cause we’ll get 4 more of it. 

 

I revised my post to better reflect my thoughts.  It is not an issue for Dems that he is gay.  It is an issue for Dems that he is less appealing to swing voters and therefore less like to win.  

 

To your post, I think there are 2 factions of the Democrat base.  1 faction (the Pragmatic Wing) just wants Trump out because he is obviously unfit and just want any functioning adult that isn't going to cage children, side with Nazis, lie constantly etc.  The other faction (the Progressive Wing) sees Trump as a particularly weak incumbent and wants to use that as an opportunity to swing the country as far as possible to the left.

 

I think the Dem margin of error is pretty big, but I have zero risk appetite here.  I just want whatever person emerges as the most likely to beat Trump, and if we don't end up with universal healthcare, I'm fine with that.  

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1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

Now I would concede the point that those who don't vote don't belong in the equation period, but I was more making the point that I do think there are more Dems/Progressives/Left/Whatever else under the

 

I cant really argue that because we don’t have a long enough tract record of everyone voting to know. We have polls. Polls have problems. Elections are what counts. 

 

So yeah, I’m open to the idea that you’re right on that one 

 

I think saying they’re more left is probably true. I don’t know that they’re that progressive. I think Warren and Sanders sweeping policy changes at a minimum cause many to stop and be concerned, and cause others to just outright reject them. 

 

I feel like there are a lot of people left-center that reject the idea that everyone is a victim of the system. Maybe I’m wrong. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I cant really argue that because we don’t have a long enough tract record of everyone voting to know. We have polls. Polls have problems. Elections are what counts. 

 

So yeah, I’m open to the idea that you’re right on that one 

 

I think saying they’re more left is probably true. I don’t know that they’re that progressive. I think Warren and Sanders sweeping policy changes at a minimum cause many to stop and be concerned, and cause others to just outright reject them. 

 

I feel like there are a lot of people left-center that reject the idea that everyone is a victim of the system. Maybe I’m wrong. 

 

From what I have seen when it comes to polls, the Left's problem is not on the issues, it's on messaging.  Every time polls are taken on generic issues with no politicians' names attached to them, no party attached to them, the people tend to favor the left's position on issues, overwhelmingly on others. Very few issues do the majority of people actually support the right wing on.  However, the right wing media machine has done such a great job of demonizing a brand that half the voters consider it toxic to even consider voting for a Democrat despite actually agreeing with them on the issues.

 

Last night at Trump's campaign rally.....the people clapped when he talked about protecting "pre-existing conditions" which had to be a head scratcher to anyone actually paying attention to the healthcare debate in Washington considering that is the opposite of Trump's actual policy plans.   That is one example of the problem I am talking about. 

Edited by NoCalMike
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I country being full of racists is precisely why trump is president... so it can’t be dismissed if he wins again

2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

From what I have seen when it comes to polls, the Left's problem is not on the issues, it's on messaging.  Every time polls are taken on generic issues with no politicians' names attached to them, no party attached to them, the people tend to favor the left's position on issues, overwhelmingly on others. Very few issues do the majority of people actually support the right wing on.  However, the right wing media machine has done such a great job of demonizing a brand that half the voters consider it toxic to even consider voting for a Democrat despite actually agreeing with them on the issues.

 

Last night at Trump's campaign rally.....the people clapped when he talked about protecting "pre-existing conditions" which had to be a head scratcher to anyone actually paying attention to the healthcare debate in Washington considering that is the opposite of Trump's actual policy plans.   That is one example of the problem I am talking about. 

 

The left needs to appeal to every group that has ever fought for their rights, the right only has to appeal to what white people hate about those groups. It’s not particularly tough to appeal to all republicans... they just voted for a guy who none of them considered a republican 1 year prior to voting for him. Republicans are absent all morals, there is nothing republicans care about besides seeing white republican men in power. 

 

US Republicans are the most grotesque group of humans to exist since the Nazi’s, & the only reason they’re not worse is because they’d get ****** up. 

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5 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I country being full of racists is precisely why trump is president... so it can’t be dismissed if he wins again

Well, I reject the notion that he won because the country is “full of racists” and I’m willing to bet if he wins again I’ll reject it as the reason then (have to see how it plays out, but I’m willing to bet that won’t be why)

 

im aware that’s how a significant portion of the board (that participated in political threads) feels. I’ve argued it a lot and never got anywhere with it here. So we disagree. 

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10 minutes ago, tshile said:

Well, I reject the notion that he won because the country is “full of racists” and I’m willing to bet if he wins again I’ll reject it as the reason then (have to see how it plays out, but I’m willing to bet that won’t be why)

 

He might not win because of a "country full of racists" but the racists in the country will certainly be voting for him.

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I'm scared someone like Warren or someone else way left wins and tries to take the country way left.  Then you end up with a **** load of hard-righters that are super pissed.  And we know one thing pretty much all hard-right people have plenty of.

 

Good bye, 'Mercia.

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2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm scared someone like Warren or someone else way left wins and tries to take the country way left.  Then you end up with a **** load of hard-righters that are super pissed.  And we know one thing pretty much all hard-right people have plenty of.

 

Good bye, 'Mercia.

 

Considering the next Dem president will most likely inherit a GOP majority in the Senate, the chances of the country going far to the left are almost non-existent. 

 

I mostly want to see our federal agencies run by competent humans and a President who pushes the country intellectually to think about something other than scary brown people. 

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I still blame Trump's win on an outdated electoral college system and that alone. The concept that the anyone can get 3+ million less votes and still win is absolutely mind boggling. But that's a sore subject for all involved.

 

8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm scared someone like Warren or someone else way left wins and tries to take the country way left.  Then you end up with a **** load of hard-righters that are super pissed.  And we know one thing pretty much all hard-right people have plenty of.

 

Good bye, 'Mercia.

 

Stupidity? Illegitimate children? Viagra? What is it? Tell me!!! I have to know!

Edited by The Evil Genius
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Even if the next dem President has a dem house and senate, wouldn’t the SCOUS and all the conservative judges Turtle dude pushed through pose a significant threat to any overly liberal plans? (really asking)

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2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Even if the next dem President has a dem house and senate, wouldn’t the SCOUS and all the conservative judges Turtle dude pushed through pose a significant threat to any overly liberal plans? (really asking)

 

Probably in some cases, but mostly no.  Trump has had a lot of things overturned in courts because he's tried to enact policies that are blatantly unconstitutional, because he's never read the Constitution anything and thinks he got elected king.  Anyone on the Dem side, with the possible exception of Bernie, would be able to move forward legislation accomplishing their goals without running afoul of anything the courts could stop. 

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34 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm scared someone like Warren or someone else way left wins and tries to take the country way left.  Then you end up with a **** load of hard-righters that are super pissed.  And we know one thing pretty much all hard-right people have plenty of.

 

Good bye, 'Mercia.

 

It’s crazy that things like providing quality cost efficient healthcare, income equality, getting the 1% to pay their share, fixing public education and student debt crisis etc are considered taking the country way left. 

 

Should just be considered having an ounce of human decency but this is where we are as a society 

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42 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm scared someone like Warren or someone else way left wins and tries to take the country way left.  Then you end up with a **** load of hard-righters that are super pissed.  And we know one thing pretty much all hard-right people have plenty of.

 

Good bye, 'Mercia.

 

Reagan could come back from the dead. Run as a Dem....win and that still would happen. They'll be pissed. Some will do stuff like trying to mail bombs and shoot up black churches/jewish temples. Others will go back to watching TV and ordering their home delivery catheters, cash4gold guide books, and reverse mortgage info packets. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

It’s crazy that things like providing quality cost efficient healthcare, income equality, getting the 1% to pay their share, fixing public education and student debt crisis etc are considered taking the country way left. 

 

Should just be considered having an ounce of human decency but this is where we are as a society 

 

Yep, hence I go back to my messaging thing.   What the progressives of 2019 are fighting for sound pretty FDR-ish to me.  Hell I bet some Republicans of that era might have even been on board.

 

The messaging on left vs. right has been so skewed that what people consider the middle on these types of issues is a lot more right wing.  The bottomline/profit margin/$$$ has taken over as the major determining factor on just about every issue in this country, and it hasn't been on accident.  The wealthy got their tax cuts, then they got more, they still want more, and they will try their hardest to convince the middle and lower classes to continue to vote to give it to them. 

Edited by NoCalMike
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3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Yep, hence I go back to my messaging thing.   

 

I'll never get over how bad the Dems are at messaging. Again, for the party of hollywood insiders. They STINK at telling a story and getting to the emotional core of people. 

 

The GOP and Trump has given them all the video they need to use without needed much editing. This stuff should be turned around by PACs and whoever into web-ads and TV stuff non-stop. 

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2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

He might not win because of a "country full of racists" but the racists in the country will certainly be voting for him.

I do not have a problem with that statement. 

 

Seems accurate. 

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