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Presidential Election :11/3/2020- Putin's Impeachable Puppet vs The Rise of BootyWalker & some other Dems

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13 minutes ago, Destino said:

I disagree because of the timing.  This isn’t happening in a vacuum.  Right now Iran is growing it’s influence in the region and they are a dedicated enemy if the United States.  Policy positions can’t just ignore the reality of what’s actually occurring.  Telling Saudi Arabia they’re on their own, publicly, is an irresponsible move diplomatically that harms US interests.  

 

Our primary goal of stopping Iran's nuclear problem was solved until this administration, influenced by hardliners in the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia decided that a policy of more confrontation with Iran was a better solution than diplomatically working with our European partners and Iranians.

 

Now that we have an escalation of conflict, which was the predictable outcome, there is a call for more military action in the middle east.

 

Getting involved in the Middle Eastern pissing matches between the Shia and Sunni's has never had good outcomes for the US. I have no problem with a radical transformation in US foreign policy that tells the Saudi's and Israeli hardliners opposed to diplomacy to kick rocks and instead seeks diplomatic solutions like JCPOA.

 

Edited by No Excuses
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17 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

We are probably 20 years too late already in evaluating our relationship with the Saudi kingdom.

 

We don't want to get diplomatically isolated in the region.  And it's only been within the last ten years that we've had the economic independence to think about distancing ourselves from both Saudi Arabia and the region itself.

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1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

I think maybe this is a misinterpretation, but I could be wrong. I don't think he's saying we wouldn't support SA, obviously we do. I think he's saying that the US is going to go to war in place of SA. Regardless though, I think it's in response to POTUS effectively saying he will let SA dictate what we do. 

It looks like you’re the one interpreting.  I’m taking his tweet at face value, he will not go to war for Saudi Arabia.  A tweet which he sent immediately after they were bombed by a foreign power (almost certainly Iran).  He could have said he didn’t wish to enter a war but would support Saudi Arabia another way.  He could have called for diplomatic negotiations as many other leaders have done.  He chose to say what he said via a tweet.  A move straight out of Trumps playbook of irresponsible leadership.

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4 minutes ago, Destino said:

It looks like you’re the one interpreting.  I’m taking his tweet at face value, he will not go to war for Saudi Arabia.  A tweet which he sent immediately after they were bombed by a foreign power (almost certainly Iran).  He could have said he didn’t wish to enter a war but would support Saudi Arabia another way.  He could have called for diplomatic negotiations as many other leaders have done.  He chose to say what he said via a tweet.  A move straight out of Trumps playbook of irresponsible leadership.

 

I won't defend the use of twitter for anything and I'm not a Beto fan. The US simply wouldn't turn it's back on the Saudis, but I'm fine applying some pressure on them to change their ways as well. 

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1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

Questioning and perhaps going the extra way by discarding our alliance with Saudi Arabia is perfectly fine as a policy position. There is no hard and fast rule that we must support the Saudi's at all costs.

 

We are probably 20 years too late already in evaluating our relationship with the Saudi kingdom.

 

I see this conversation is occurring in two threads now glad to see that.  Outside of protecting the oil market, I'd like to hear a good reason for continuing a military alliance with that country?  To help protect democracy and freedom in the region, a kingdom that just gave women the right to drive less then two years ago?

Edited by Renegade7
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2 hours ago, Destino said:

It looks like you’re the one interpreting.  I’m taking his tweet at face value, he will not go to war for Saudi Arabia.

 

Which he made in response to a Presidental announcement that we are waiting for Saudi Arabia to tell us whether to go to war for them or not.  

 

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

We don't want to get diplomatically isolated in the region. 

 

Then we probably shouldn't have elected a man with the calm, steady, consistent approach of Donald Trump, who's primary campaign issue was his promise that if elected, he will defecate on the entire religion of Islam, and after elected, declared our nation to be a satellite state of Israel.  

Edited by Larry
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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

I see this conversation is occurring in two threads now

 

Good point.  This really belongs in the generic Trump thread, or the mideast thread.  

Edited by Larry
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7 minutes ago, Larry said:

Then we probably shouldn't have elected a man with the calm, steady, consistent approach of Donald Trump, who's primary campaign issue was his promise that if elected, he will defecate on the entire religion of Islam, and after elected, declared our nation to be a satellite state of Israel.  

To be fair, that was more of a tertiary promise. He primarily campaigned on Mexico paying for a border wall and jailing his opponent.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff

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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I see this conversation is occurring in two threads now glad to see that.  Outside of protecting the oil market, I'd like to hear a good reason for continuing a military alliance with that country?  To help protect democracy and freedom in the region, a kingdom that just gave women the right to drive less then two years ago?

 

We have a strategy of supporting Saudi Arabia and Turkey as two of the three regional powers as a check on Iranian supremacy in the region and to provide for Israeli security.  Iran is Russia's proxy in the Middle East.  Our positive bilateral relations with Saudi Arabia were necessary for Soviet containment in Iran and Afghanistan, as well as to limit the scope of regional warring between Israel and the Arab world because our engagement with the Saudis keeps them from backing any move against Israel.  It's also stabilized oil prices for the United States, which is a key strategic benefit for the US because of how central oil prices are to facilitating economic development and the deployment of military power.  We also supported each other against Iraq, back when they were a geopolitical enemy.  We used our close relationship to Saudi Arabia to solidify the dollar as the world's biggest reserve currency after Nixon ended the gold standard in the 70's.  Their oil production provided the key commodity we used to stabilize our dollar's value and promote demand for its use as a reserve.

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Top of the Morning Consult poll from today:
Biden 32

Sanders 20

Warren 18

 

While Warren is well back in 3rd here, this is actually a sign of continued momentum for her. This has been consistently one of the worst polls for her. Here are her numbers in this poll from the beginning of August until today's (oldest first):

 

15

15

14

15

15

16

16

18

 

Even in a poll that's not good for her, upward momentum is the constant trend.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly

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Do that many people know who Amash is?

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by visionary

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Seriously?  One of the candidates for the Dem nomination for POTUS is attacking another candidate by claiming that she's a capitalist?  

 

That's a serious charge, there, Bernie, what's your support?  Is she paying her staff?  Own her own home?  

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29 minutes ago, Larry said:

Seriously?  One of the candidates for the Dem nomination for POTUS is attacking another candidate by claiming that she's a capitalist?  

 

That's a serious charge, there, Bernie, what's your support?  Is she paying her staff?  Own her own home?  

Bernie didn't say that, a spokeswoman for the DSA did.

 

It's bit of a theme lately, Bernie supporters trying to tear down Warren, because they think she has stolen his thunder. I think it's something they should reconsider. It's not a good look, and it makes them look desperate. 

 

It reminds me a little of what they do with the monthly DailyKos straw polls. Basically, Warren was always leading the poll until later in the afternoon when a flood of Sanders supporters would show up and vote for him. Well, it didn't take long for people to figure out that the Bernie backers on the site were getting word out to non-Kos members who liked Bernie to come and vote and make it look like Bernie was still the leading choice for progressives. So, people immediately began dismissing the final result and looking at the result from early afternoon,  before the influx.

 

Eventually, even with the flood of Bernie Bros, Warren started winning anyway. So, the upshot of the whole thing now is that  Sandernistas look like trolls and make liberals on the site resent them, and he's losing even after trolling, so that he looks like he has even less support than he probably actually has. 

 

Shrewd politics. 

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2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's bit of a theme lately, Bernie supporters trying to tear down Warren, because they think she has stolen his thunder. I think it's something they should reconsider. It's not a good look, and it makes them look desperate. 

 

 

Makes them look . . . . like they looked four years ago.  

 

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Words to remember in the voting booth. Our present president covers all five of these toxic attributes.

 

Octavia E. Butler


"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears. To be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool. To be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. To be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to. To be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery."

Edited by LadySkinsFan
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