The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[markmills67]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Has anybody noticed that teams that have 2-3 awesome draft classes in a row, and then do exceptionally well, fall off the map a few years later? 

 

You know why?  3 reasons:  1. Then you can't pay all your draft picks, 2. You have lower picks in every round, so you are picking behind other teams, 3. it's impossible to draft well consistently. No team has EVER done it.  Minus Big Ben and Rodgers, the two most "stable, draft first" franchises would not be nearly as good as they are.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to draft well.  You should.  And trading away picks is a bad thing.

 

But it's not the only way to acquire players.  

 

The Patriots got Randy Moss for a 4th. I'm not a fan of trading picks for older players, but sometimes it works.  

 

If there was anything to this, and I rather doubt that there is anything at all, a 4th or later pick would be a steal.  Sherman is a little old, and a loud mouth, but he's also a heck of a corner, and him playing opposite Norman IMMEDIATELY improves your defense dramatically.  Would even help the pass-rush.  

 

Breeland, however, would go out of his freaking mind. And I would be ok with that.

 

 

 

Why not? Money? Mouth? Circus? Age? (Don't say "yes")

 

The thing is there's no reason to get it done earlier, so why do it until you have to?  They made the mistake in 2016 when they tagged him the first time.  That was the mistake.  Now they're waiting until the last minute to fix the mistake.  I'm fine with that, actually.

Why can't they do 2 transactions at once?  I'm not saying they should sign Sherman, but negotiating a LTD with Kirk and trading for Sherman are separate things that can happen in parallel.  

I've got a feeling that the closer we get to the deadline the chance of signing cousins to a LTD diminishes, we know round about what we will have to pay him $140m with about $85 guaranteed, I still just don't see why we can't get this done asap.

 

HTTR 

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Why can't they do 2 transactions at once?  I'm not saying they should sign Sherman, but negotiating a LTD with Kirk and trading for Sherman are separate things that can happen in parallel.  

Agreed, we don't have the cap space to straight up trade for Sherman either without making another cap related move.

 

I'd love him here if there was anything in this. 

[markmills67]

1 minute ago, markmills67 said:

I've got a feeling that the closer we get to the deadline the chance of signing cousins to a LTD diminishes, we know round about what we will have to pay him $140m with about $85 guaranteed, I still just don't see why we can't get this done asap.

 

HTTR 

Sorry didn't mean all of the original posts to appear.

 

HTTR 

[Peregrine]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Has anybody noticed that teams that have 2-3 awesome draft classes in a row, and then do exceptionally well, fall off the map a few years later? 

 

You know why?  3 reasons:  1. Then you can't pay all your draft picks, 2. You have lower picks in every round, so you are picking behind other teams, 3. it's impossible to draft well consistently. No team has EVER done it.  Minus Big Ben and Rodgers, the two most "stable, draft first" franchises would not be nearly as good as they are.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to draft well.  You should.  And trading away picks is a bad thing.

 

But it's not the only way to acquire players.  

Im not sure you can make much of a point that the Steelers and Packers, the two most stable draft first franchises are only that because of the players they.......drafted.  Both of them drafted Rodgers and Roethlisberger, so that proves their stability and their system.  Yes, its also true that most successful free agency first franchises would struggle if it wasnt for their best free agents they signed...

 

The Seahawks draft their back 7.  And they keep their good draft picks, until they no longer thing they are worth keeping.  And their defense CONTINUES to be top 5 every year.  In fact, in the past 5 years they have been in the top 5 in Yards, Points and Turnovers 14 of 15 times.  They have been #1 7 of 15 times.  

 

Yeah, I think I might want to copy what they are doing, and not go after a guy they deem is too expensive, because thats now how they build their dominant defense.  The draft is not the only way to acquire DBs, its true, but man if we shouldnt pay attention to those that can actually do what we cant.

[William Barbour]

 Why do fans continue to want players on the down slope of their career after the decade of seeing it done here and failing?

 

We invested many picks in DB's. Have a great DB coach in Gray. Let's let them grow.

 

Sherman can die in Seattle or in Cleveland. 

[goskins10]

44 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

I've got a feeling that the closer we get to the deadline the chance of signing cousins to a LTD diminishes, we know round about what we will have to pay him $140m with about $85 guaranteed, I still just don't see why we can't get this done asap.

 

HTTR 

 

 

What exactly leads you to believe there is less of a chance of a LTD as the July 15th deadline approaches? This would go against all known data in terms of teams applying the exclusive franchise tag. Based on the recent history of teams applying the exclusive franchise tag on players, the July 15th deadline is when most teams sign their player. In fact of the 8 players given the exclusive franchise tag, 6 of those players signed on or very close to the July 15th deadline.

 

As has been stated numerous times, there is absolutely no reason to get a deal done before the deadline - outside fan impatience. If July 15th comes and goes without a deal, then there will be a reason to be pissed. And I will be right here with everyone. Until then this is NFL business as usual. Nothing to see.

 

Unrelated to the contract conversation so not directed at you: As for Sherman - Not just no but hell no!!!!  He is on the wrong side of his career. His performance has been declining each year. He has been getting exposed regularly the last few years. Yes, right now he may be better than most anyone we have but Norman. But for how long? A year or two? And more importantly at what cost? Draft picks? Younger players development? Excessive CAP? Let's not ignore the media circus he brings. Certainly do not need more drama on this team. The only positive I can see from him being a Redskin is Trent Williams can finish what he started.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Regarding Sherman, we should probably follow what the Seahawks do, and draft great players and then trade them to desperate teams when they start to get too old.  We should not be the team getting fleeced by the Seahawks.

 

Kind of ironic that you say this about the Seahawks who, in the midst of a SB window, traded TWO cheap 1st round picks for the overrated, injury-prone, and expensive vet players Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham. 

 

Some will say that being "in their window" with their franchise QB makes these trades of premium picks for playmakers more understandable, but when you consider that their entire model of success depends on what you describe, drafting superstars on cheap rookie contracts, dealing multiple 1st rounders for receiving talent their QB hadn't proven to need looks even dumber.

 

They've had some great drafts but they are hardly a model to follow in terms of trades for vets, on either end. They did absolutely nail the 4th rounder for Marshawn Lynch trade, though.

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

This is a poor reason.  First of all, Sherman is faster than our current #2 CB in Breeland.  Second, adding Sherman would also give us the best CB duo of any other team, next to the Broncos.

 

I still wouldn't do the trade though because Sherman's name might already be bigger than his game at this point.  And if not, it will be soon due to his age.  Also, the cost of the trade would likely be too steep.

 

Sherman ran a 4.56 at the combine. The guy is slow for a CB. And I agree with the rest of your post. You still have to wonder why Sherman would even be available. You dont let elite CB's walk. Ever.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

I've got a feeling that the closer we get to the deadline the chance of signing cousins to a LTD diminishes

 

This is 100% the opposite of how real life negotiations go. Deadlines create deals, always. Always.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Sherman ran a 4.56 at the combine. The guy is slow for a CB. And I agree with the rest of your post. You still have to wonder why Sherman would even be available. You dont let elite CB's walk. Ever.

 

And Breeland ran 4.62 at the combine.  Sherman would be increasing, not decreasing, our speed at starting CB.  

 

And yes, I agree that we'd need to question why they want to trade him.  I'm not buying that it's only because he's been a problem in the locker room, challenging the coaches, etc.  Pete Carrol has made his name off being able to deal with guys like that throughout his career.

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Sherman ran a 4.56 at the combine. The guy is slow for a CB. And I agree with the rest of your post. You still have to wonder why Sherman would even be available. You dont let elite CB's walk. Ever.

Champ Bailey

Josh Norman

Darrelle Revis

 

One traded and two cut. It happens.

 

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, The Mayor of Fed Ex Field said:

Champ Bailey

Josh Norman

Darrelle Revis

 

One traded and two cut. It happens.

 

 

And all were mistakes.  In terms of Sherman - he is not an elite CB right now. He was a few years ago. So letting him go is clearly not a mistake by Seattle. The mistake will be whoever signs him.

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

And all were mistakes.

Not disputing that. Disputing the original quote, that "nobody let's elite CBs walk"

 

 

[goskins10]

5 minutes ago, The Mayor of Fed Ex Field said:

Not disputing that. Disputing the original quote, that "nobody let's elite CBs walk"

 

 

 

I could be wrong but I believe the point was letting elite CBs walk is a mistake not that teams literally do not let them go. Of course teams have let them walk. Although with both Bailey and Revis, the teams didn't really have much choice to be fair. Only Norman was really the teams decision. He would still be there if they let him sign the tag tender, as opposed to Bailey being very public about wanting to leave and Revis purely following the money to the highest bidder. At least the Redskins got something back.

[HTTRDynasty]

Where is this notion coming from that Sherman isn't a top 5 CB still?  He was dealing with injuries last year and still put up respectable numbers.  

 

For the 2016 season:

 

Richard Sherman: Season stats in coverage: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against.

 

Patrick Peterson: Season stats in coverage: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against.

 

Chris Harris Jr.: Season stats in coverage: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against.

 

Marcus Peters Season stats in coverage: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against.

 

Josh Norman: Season stats in coverage: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against.

 

Aquib Talib: Season stats in coverage: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against.

 

Seems like he's in pretty good company.  I personally think he's a little past his peak, but I disagree with anyone who thinks he's not still a top 5 CB.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Peter King piling on to the Redskins being a bottom half club.  #22 in his power rankings.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/22/nfl-power-rankings-offseason-peter-king-part-one

[DC Lumber Co.]

Id rather stick with what we have at corner and keep the draft pick it would require to get Sherman. 

 

We just drafted 2 corners that were considered 1st round talents prior to injury. Now is not the time to revert to the Redskins of old and go trading valuable draft capital for players on the decline. 

 

Luckily fans arent running the team or we'd have a past-prime vince wilfork, an overweight Dan Williams, signed both Pierre and Desean to huge contracts that would prevent us from re-signing Kirk, drafted a 1st round running back, and traded next years picks for Richard Sherman, effectively stunting the growth of our young corners. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

so wonder which WR isn't making the team?  Quick, Harris, Davis?

 

Pryor, Crowder, Grant, Doctson.  I assume two more guys from there. 

 

 

[Conn]

If Davis doesn't have a big game in preseason or outplay Grant on STs, we can probably stash him on the PS. 

[Koolblue13]

We should be thinking SB this year.

 

We have one starting CB.

 

Ive never been a fan of Sherman, but Bree and Fuller blow.

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

so wonder which WR isn't making the team?  Quick, Harris, Davis?

 

Pryor, Crowder, Grant, Doctson.  I assume two more guys from there. 

 

 

I would think Davis could be put on the PS. Have to say I was hoping that Grant would be the odd man out. Coaches clearly see something in him. I don't hate the guy. But would rather see someone like Davis get a chance on the 53.

 

They could keep 7 though. Would reduce depth elsewhere. But with Doctson not a sure thing due to previous injury and it being his first season playing, and Crowder being the only other prime target from last year, I could see them keeping 7 on the 53.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Luckily fans arent running the team or we'd have a past-prime vince wilfork, an overweight Dan Williams, signed both Pierre and Desean to huge contracts that would prevent us from re-signing Kirk, drafted a 1st round running back, and traded next years picks for Richard Sherman, effectively stunting the growth of our young corners. 

 

 

I've read this thread fairly religiously for months and not sure who the fans are here that fit that full generalization.   I am on board with kicking the tires on Dan Williams -- and I don't think its an outlandish position.   Where I am with you is I liked for example Dalvin Cook but I didn't want to take him at #17 or trade up for him in the 2nd but I am not going to take a victory lap on my take on that front if Cook looks like the next Peterson this coming season.   On some of your theories you have to see them play out before knowing what was right and what was wrong. 

 

The guys left in charge for the moment are the same ones who traded three number one picks for a rookie QB and traded two high picks for McNabb.  And according to Shanny, he wasn't on board but went along with it.  They traded a high pick for J. Brown.    So I don't think those guys are adverse to trading for Sherman if they are jazzed about him.  

[DC Lumber Co.]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've read this thread fairly religiously for months and not sure who the fans are here that fit that full generalization.   I am on board with kicking the tires on Dan Williams -- and I don't think its an outlandish position.   Where I am with you is I liked for example Dalvin Cook but I didn't want to take him at #17 or trade up for him in the 2nd but I am not going to take a victory lap on my take on that front if Cook looks like the next Peterson this coming season.   On some of your theories you have to see them play out before knowing what was right and what was wrong. 

 

The guys left in charge for the moment are the same ones who traded three number one picks for a rookie QB and traded two high picks for McNabb.  And according to Shanny, he wasn't on board but went along with it.  They traded a high pick for J. Brown.    So I don't think those guys are adverse to trading for Sherman if they are jazzed about him.  

 

I thought Shanny had full personnel control as part of the terms of him taking the job as HC? But I see what you mean. In hindsight the RG3 trade was terrible even if the Rams didnt do much with the picks, it doesnt mean we couldnt have. But at the time RG3 was very highly touted so its hard to really fault them for making the move if they thought he was franchise-caliber.

 

And I liked adding a RB, thought it was one of our needs that needed to be addressed, just not in the first round unless it was Fournette.

 

And I'm not against bringing in Dan Williams, I just think we see what we have in house first before kicking the tires on him. If hes still out of shape, hard pass. Don't think it looks very good that hes still available either.

 

I think Phil Taylor is just as good at this stage in their careers if healthy and much younger to boot.

 

 

[Stefanskins]

5 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Sorry didn't mean all of the original posts to appear.

 

HTTR 

done that before...jus to let you know for next time, I believe you can always go back and highlight a portion of the quote (even after you have posted it) and delete to shortin'....HTTR!!!

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Im not sure you can make much of a point that the Steelers and Packers, the two most stable draft first franchises are only that because of the players they.......drafted.  Both of them drafted Rodgers and Roethlisberger, so that proves their stability and their system.  Yes, its also true that most successful free agency first franchises would struggle if it wasnt for their best free agents they signed...

 

The Seahawks draft their back 7.  And they keep their good draft picks, until they no longer thing they are worth keeping.  And their defense CONTINUES to be top 5 every year.  In fact, in the past 5 years they have been in the top 5 in Yards, Points and Turnovers 14 of 15 times.  They have been #1 7 of 15 times.  

 

Yeah, I think I might want to copy what they are doing, and not go after a guy they deem is too expensive, because thats now how they build their dominant defense.  The draft is not the only way to acquire DBs, its true, but man if we shouldnt pay attention to those that can actually do what we cant.

My point, you've got to get lucky in the draft.  We've actually had a lot of draft picks the last 3-4 drafts, and even got lucky with Cousins.  

 

But that doesn't preclude FA, or trades to being in other players.

 

My point about GB and the Steelers is if they didn't get a little lucky with their draft picks, they would be 8-8. Even with their commitment to the draft.  Also, going way back, don't forget the Packers traded for favre. 

 

Drafting a lot of players and drafting well is always the goal.  But you can add players in other ways and be successful.