Sports Journey - Barry Takes Ownership of Defensive Issues

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I will tell you if you don't see any chance Barry can lead this Def then you have not been paying any attention to the bigger picture. You are looking at things in very narrow predetermined view. You clearly started with the narrative that he will not work out and are looking for reasons to support your position.

For the record, I do not put a positive spin on everything. I just don't; continually **** and complain about things and look for the negative. While you are trying to position yourself as some kind of moderate, that's BS. You clearly have an agenda with Barry if you can't see that from a bigger picture he is making progress. With all the injuries and lack of talent in a few key areas, it's going to take time. What people of your ilk are guilty of is impatience. If it does not happen immediately it's never going to happen.

The narrow, predetermined view you speak of is built by facts.  Joe Barry came here with an awful track record and by all accounts was on nobodys radar when we hired him.  However, I'd prefer the majority including myself to be wrong about him but he's not done anything to spin that in his direction.  I actually care more about the Redskins than I do about being right, which I can't necessarily say about some of you.

[Suffolk_Skins]

8 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

So if we disagree then we are not being honest? That's BS. You are entitled to your opinion but that does not make you right.

Yes, I see a lot of promise in the D. He has dealt with massive injuries and after a poor start the D has gotten considerably better. Also, the guys coming in when someone gets injured are typically ready to play, something we have not had here for a long time.

 

Barry has done very well for the last month! However, we should have brought the damn house. Our back up corners are not going to keep Stafford out of the endzone in soft zone. 

 

[SWFLSkins]

12 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

Barry has done very well for the last month! However, we should have brought the damn house. Our back up corners are not going to keep Stafford out of the endzone in soft zone. 

 

Several games now where there were terrible defensive calls at critical points in games. I don't know how that will suddenly change.....My success coaching always brouhgt the game tp the other team, I didn't react to what they were doing. He is a reactive Coach, not a dictating one. I can hope he changes in one hand and feel the hot pile in the other (losses added by D scheme), still a hot pile.

Oh and his history points to what we are seeing on the field.

He prepped against Stafford, yet played prevent darin g him to beat us, like Drew was incapable, how naive for a Pro.

Burgundy Blog ‏@BurgundyBlog  10h10 hours ago

#Redskins DL continues to brazenly and very publicly second-guess Joe Barry. (via @MikeJonesWaPo)

[SWFLSkins]

Burgundy Blog ‏@BurgundyBlog  10h10 hours ago

Baker/RJF are prob right—D should've blitzed Stafford more at end. Still can't believe how directly they're questioning their boss in media.

[goskins10]

14 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

Barry has done very well for the last month! However, we should have brought the damn house. Our back up corners are not going to keep Stafford out of the endzone in soft zone. 

 

 

I don't disagree. He makes mistakes. I would like him to be more aggressive with the play calling. When he is the team plays better. I believe he is actually too worried about a big play. He gets so worried about getting beat by the big play that he gets too conservative. Part of that is there have been so many different players due to injuries that you can see him being tentative when some guys go out.

I also remember though people becoming apoplectic when Haslett sent a full out blitz on Romo only to have him make a big completion for a TD. So the result is what makes it a good or bad call. If the guys had been more disciplined in their assignments that would have been an incomplete pass. Against the Ravens near the goal line at the end of the game we played the same D and the guys made a play - knocked the ball out.

I see him growing and learning as time goes on. We still need more talent on the DLine and at Saf. This whole thing is a work in progress. One of the more critical things to success is continuity - guys knowing the coaches will be there.

At some point you may have to say this guy has taken us a far as we can go. I do not think we are there with Barry. I would like to see how the rest of this season and next season unfolds. But apparently that's just me  

[Koolblue13]

The players probably have more faith in the back up secondary players than they should.

[RandyHolt]

Here is what is wrong with zone late, game on the line.

We all expect prevent to start that late drive, milk the clock, don't give up the big play, and then predictably dial up pressure once they cross our 30 or so. Qbs know exactly the defenses before the drive starts! While I would like to see very aggressive D early and throughout that final drive, it never happens. My thinking, if you give up a big play, you get the ball back with time. Control your own destiny, versus trying to hold on for dear life. Anyways....

Zone requires 8 guys sprinting to the correct spot. ~ 4 to 8 of those guys will be covering no one as the play ends, just empty space. Zone requires them to get to a spot as the first and maybe highest priority, even if no one is on their side of the field, or are facing a QB with no legs.  Once there, they are flat footed as they try to read where the ball will go; forced to read all the possible WRs flooding zone's at what speed and angles, not to mention reading the QB's eyes, or pass velocity.  Zone doesn't take into account a teams ace WR - all our treated equally.

There is no disruption of timing so a QB already knows when and where his target will be. There is almost guaranteed no pressure on the QB with the 3 man rush, and no DB can cover forever. As DBs contemplate moving towards a WR at full speed, will they be vacating their zone too soon? That is the key aspect and cause of countless failures, because they hesitate. Maybe there are 2 flooding a zone. Simply too much for them to digest in such a short amount of time. By the time they figure it all out, it's often too late. We have seen time and time again DBs throwing their arms up looking at a teammate after failed zone TDs against. That was your zone. #SeeTheImaginaryLines

In summary, no pressure on the QB and WRs, lots of pressure on all DBs. 

Man, while not fool proof, is a much easier assignment for DBs to digest.  S help over the top, send an extra guy or 2, no thinking, cover this guy - and live with it.

Zone sucks. That is all.

Sincerely Yours,

Randy Holt Sr. err III

[Suffolk_Skins]

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I don't disagree. He makes mistakes. I would like him to be more aggressive with the play calling. When he is the team plays better. I believe he is actually too worried about a big play. He gets so worried about getting beat by the big play that he gets too conservative. Part of that is there have been so many different players due to injuries that you can see him being tentative when some guys go out.

I also remember though people becoming apoplectic when Haslett sent a full out blitz on Romo only to have him make a big completion for a TD. So the result is what makes it a good or bad call. If the guys had been more disciplined in their assignments that would have been an incomplete pass. Against the Ravens near the goal line at the end of the game we played the same D and the guys made a play - knocked the ball out.

I see him growing and learning as time goes on. We still need more talent on the DLine and at Saf. This whole thing is a work in progress. One of the more critical things to success is continuity - guys knowing the coaches will be there.

At some point you may have to say this guy has taken us a far as we can go. I do not think we are there with Barry. I would like to see how the rest of this season and next season unfolds. But apparently that's just me  

 

To be fair we had some pressure, Kerrigan nearly had him, thought he was going to end the game there. Then Stafford just has all that open field in front of him. Brutal. 

[Wildbunny]

12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I don't disagree. He makes mistakes. I would like him to be more aggressive with the play calling. When he is the team plays better. I believe he is actually too worried about a big play. He gets so worried about getting beat by the big play that he gets too conservative. Part of that is there have been so many different players due to injuries that you can see him being tentative when some guys go out.

I also remember though people becoming apoplectic when Haslett sent a full out blitz on Romo only to have him make a big completion for a TD. So the result is what makes it a good or bad call. If the guys had been more disciplined in their assignments that would have been an incomplete pass. Against the Ravens near the goal line at the end of the game we played the same D and the guys made a play - knocked the ball out.

I see him growing and learning as time goes on. We still need more talent on the DLine and at Saf. This whole thing is a work in progress. One of the more critical things to success is continuity - guys knowing the coaches will be there.

At some point you may have to say this guy has taken us a far as we can go. I do not think we are there with Barry. I would like to see how the rest of this season and next season unfolds. But apparently that's just me  

Nope, you're not the only one. Second guessing is always right so... That TD from Kelley was brilliant. And the play was set up by the play right before that with Matt Jones up the midfield, luring them in "we're gonna pound you through the middle" mode. We've been playing prevent like yesterday last season with better success. Now we're blaiming him because it failed yesterday. It'll work next week, or the week after...

If he goes Cover O and rush Stafford, we would be blaiming him as well if it failed.

4 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

To be fair we had some pressure, Kerrigan nearly had him, thought he was going to end the game there. Then Stafford just has all that open field in front of him. Brutal. 

I believe Murphy was close as well.But yeah, that was brutal, and that happened early in the game too.

What was astonishing was Andre Roberts bobbling a ball and finally make a 20+ yard catch... Unbelievable.

[Suffolk_Skins]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Nope, you're not the only one. Second guessing is always right so... That TD from Kelley was brilliant. And the play was set up by the play right before that with Matt Jones up the midfield, luring them in "we're gonna pound you through the middle" mode. We've been playing prevent like yesterday last season with better success. Now we're blaiming him because it failed yesterday. It'll work next week, or the week after...

If he goes Cover O and rush Stafford, we would be blaiming him as well if it failed.

I believe Murphy was close as well.But yeah, that was brutal, and that happened early in the game too.

What was astonishing was Andre Roberts bobbling a ball and finally make a 20+ yard catch... Unbelievable.

 

People in the bar I was in were celebrating with the "you like that" chants, I was like not yet, please.

[SWFLSkins]

2 hours ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

To be fair we had some pressure, Kerrigan nearly had him, thought he was going to end the game there. Then Stafford just has all that open field in front of him. Brutal. 

Luis Landa ‏@1570_landa  3h3 hours ago

Luis Landa Retweeted Ashburning

Yep I saw that PFF said that Joe Barry only blitzed Matt Stafford 8 times the whole game..

[Alexa]

Sometimes I just think Gruden isn't a Super Bowl caliber type of coach. He's a solid coach and all, but maybe not one that's good enough to take us to the promised land. After the first two plays of the Lions final drive he should have called a time out and got up in Barry's grill. Or even before the drive make things clear that we're not playing prevent defense.   Then after it's too late he gets up in his presser and says...."yeah maybe we should have been more aggressive." Huh??? WTF Gruden!!!!!??? Aren't you the HC of the team???  

 

[Mr. Sinister]

3 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

Burgundy Blog ‏@BurgundyBlog  10h10 hours ago

Baker/RJF are prob right—D should've blitzed Stafford more at end. Still can't believe how directly they're questioning their boss in media.

It's clear that they do not respect him

[Area51]

3 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

Burgundy Blog ‏@BurgundyBlog  10h10 hours ago

Baker/RJF are prob right—D should've blitzed Stafford more at end. Still can't believe how directly they're questioning their boss in media.

 

This is the part that's most troubling to me.  Our defense has been playing pretty good ball the past 4-5 weeks, not giving up a TD until yesterday.  Everyone is second guessing Barry for playing so conservative and rightfully so - we played to their strength and our weakness in the most critical part of the game(I HATE 3 man rushes).  

...But the mere fact that our defensive players have directly criticized our DC on MULTIPLE occasions, and we're not even at the halfway point in the season, is troubling and goes to a lack of overall respect for the coordinator.  You can't have a successful D if the guys don't respect their DC.  

[bobandweave]

Our defense has been horrible, 31st ranked DVOA against the opposing RB in the league. Our passing DVOA isn't that bad because of Josh but without him well we saw the results yesterday. Joe Berry needs to be fired and a good Defensive coach needs to be hired. #1 on my offseason wish list and has been now for 2 seasons running. This guy does not get it, what he does offer is absolute protection for the head coach as he would never replace him here or anywhere. Generally that happens with guys that go winless in a season so I get why he was hired but to have any faith or believe in his abilities to me is nuts. Berry needs to go

[Wildbunny]

Last time I checked, Joe Berry isn't coaching this team.

If you wanna rant about something, at least try to spell the guys name correctly... Still, I'm pretty sure many of those asking for the firing were singing the same song after the Baltimore and Eagles games, obviously.

[NoVaSkins21]

7 hours ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

Barry has done very well for the last month! However, we should have brought the damn house. Our back up corners are not going to keep Stafford out of the endzone in soft zone. 

 

Agreed.  Backups are backups for a reason.  Saw the play on the TD.  It was on 3rd down.  That's where they needed to blitz.  3rd down is where you need to force the issue.  Grant it, they had one more play left after that, but that's where you have to bring pressure.  Force Stafford into a difficult spot where he has to get rid of the football quickly or maybe a turnover or sack.  If he still scores, at least you tried.  I would live with that and even a score on 4th down after pressure on 3rd down.  That was just too easy.  Barry is just terrible with his defensive philosophy.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

In fairness, the defense has played much better the past 3 weeks, so you have to give Barry some credit.....but the big picture is he's not good enough if the goal is to with the SB....and neither is Gruden/McVay.

[RandyHolt]

Barry gets some overall credit for sure. We have all seen prevent a ton at the end of halves from all DC for decades.

Unfortunately for him, the end of the game is the critical part of the game, so its easy to remember and dissect. All the cumulative mistakes of 4 quarters has evolved into the final drives.  Therefore, it's critical to use players to there best ability at that time, run your best defense. It doesn't matter if Jones fumbled 0 or 4 times, the game evolved to being in Barry's hands. Fortunately for us, he is learning and adjusting, if even only after mistakes. Its just troubling the players have to call him out... it's not good. If we were 0-5, maybe we hear it.... we aren't. 

I heard F Smoot on 980 today, and he said what I suspected. In short, he said DBs want blitzers. The thinking, I can over in man for 2, 2 and a half seconds. Absolutely. Don't expect a DB to cover for 5 seconds. 

Rushing 3 shows little faith in the blitz package, or scheme. His own. 

[skinzplay]

In response to a question about Jones' fumbling, Gruden said "We've addressed it. We can't keep addressing it." Are the standards the same for assistants?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I was screaming for us to blitz (especially because the only time that I noticed we did on that final drive, it led to a quick throw and an incomplete pass). Two good things happen - the throw has to be short which should force a timeout (if we tackle) and you have a much better shot to make a play on the ball. As an aside, on that 2nd-and-10 blitz Cravens should have also drawn a holding penalty which would have helped a lot too!

Having said that, I'm pretty over hearing from Baker and RJF. You can question it in the film room and say whatever you want to the coach behind closed doors, but please stop running your mouth and showing up your coach. I don't care if the guys is a HOF coach or god-awful, he's your boss. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Having said that, I'm pretty over hearing from Baker and RJF. You can question it in the film room and say whatever you want to the coach behind closed doors, but please stop running your mouth and showing up your coach. I don't care if the guys is a HOF coach or god-awful, he's your boss. 

I get your point here, but the head coach is talking to the media, agreeing with the players.  I'd think that would only encourage more of it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get your point here, but the head coach is talking to the media, agreeing with the players.  I'd think that would only encourage more of it.

I don't agree with that either. 

Maybe I'm just old, but I would prefer that the team stay together publicly and disagree behind closed doors. 

[Wildbunny]

20 hours ago, Alexa said:

Sometimes I just think Gruden isn't a Super Bowl caliber type of coach. He's a solid coach and all, but maybe not one that's good enough to take us to the promised land. After the first two plays of the Lions final drive he should have called a time out and got up in Barry's grill. Or even before the drive make things clear that we're not playing prevent defense.   Then after it's too late he gets up in his presser and says...."yeah maybe we should have been more aggressive." Huh??? WTF Gruden!!!!!??? Aren't you the HC of the team???  

 

Yes he is.

And I'm gonna take you to the NYJ team and Todd Bowles rant after losing 3 to 24 against KC and Fitz throwing 6 picks.

Find it here.

To sum up quite a bit:

Quote

It wasn't just Ryan. I can name a bunch of people and I can start with the coaches too. It was a (expletive) game plan, (expletive) execution, and it was (expletive) all around.

So basically there, the HC, Todd Bowles (who's highly regarded by many around here) doesn't have much hand on the gameplan, and what coaches are doing either... And on the other hand of the spectrum you have Tom Coughlin that got ran out of town by the NYG last year while his whole staff was kept... 

That's an interesting course of events and theory we could draw here as: "What's on an NFL Head Coach's plate?"

Both are the HC, but the best HC will also tells ya that they need to delegate and have people they trust beneath them. So, you trust them, and when they fail, you bash them...

That would be a good subject of debate, I believe.

[SemperFi Skins]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/25/jay-gruden-faults-prevent-defense-for-washingtons-loss/

 

Jay Gruden faults prevent defense for Washington’s loss