O line and shuffling

[NoCalMike]

On the Crowder screen pass TD, Williams was playing guard and ran around the corner and was nearly 10 yards downfield when he took out 2 defenders with his block.  If THAT is what we are going to get from Williams at Guard? I'd say make the move sooner than later.  

[carex]

17 minutes ago, Aireskoi said:

We disagree on Arie I guess?  I see him as a RG, and I see Scherff as a LG.  

I think it would help the run game all around.

 

13 minutes ago, MartinC said:

It would be madness to move him inside long term.

 

that's why I think most people are talking about it short term.

I agree on Arie as an RG, but frasnkly, the Skins and I have disagreed on who's a RG and who's an LG since Chris Chester was there.  Although at that point Kory was at LG and he also wasn't one.  I';ve kind of wondered how the line at that point would have done with Chester, Kory, Monty, instead of Kory, Monty, Chester.

And the Skins seem to disagree with other teams too, since I'm pretty sure Lauvao was on the right side with the Browns

[illone]

Is Stork still available? 

Long at Center seems to be a good spot, he played a lot last year and the line did just fine. Unusure about Arie at LG, could The Sherriff move over to that side?

[MassSkinsFan]

47 minutes ago, MartinC said:

It would be madness to move him inside long term.

 

Agreed. Finding a decent LT is harder than finding a decent LG. We have an outstanding LT already. Leave him there.

[MartinC]

44 minutes ago, carex said:

 

 

that's why I think most people are talking about it short term.

 

I'm defining long term as against the Browns. Moving him inside during a game when 2 lineman go down I can see. But with a week to prepare get someone else ready to play LG and leave your best O'Lineman in his natural position. With Trent at LT you can slide protections away from him and help whoever is at LG and C anyway.

[carex]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I'm defining long term as against the Browns. Moving him inside during a game when 2 lineman go down I can see. But with a week to prepare get someone else ready to play LG and leave your best O'Lineman in his natural position. With Trent at LT you can slide protections away from him and help whoever is at LG and C anyway.

 

I suppose it depends on if Ty is a better LT than Arie is an LG

Oh, for the days of the Hogs when most of our OL played three or four positions

[markmills67]

Personally I would keep Trent at LG for the Brown's,  if we put Arie in at LG that means you are starting Long and Arie together with with lack of 1st team reps sound iffy to me. If Trent plays LG he also will be able to help Long to settle at C. I would keep the OL the same for next couple of weeks and bring Arie along slowly, 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Aireskoi said:

We disagree on Arie I guess?  I see him as a RG, and I see Scherff as a LG.  

I think it would help the run game all around.

If Moses was playing like he did last year I'd be on board...

[MassSkinsFan]

2 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Personally I would keep Trent at LG for the Brown's,  if we put Arie in at LG that means you are starting Long and Arie together with with lack of 1st team reps sound iffy to me. If Trent plays LG he also will be able to help Long to settle at C. I would keep the OL the same for next couple of weeks and bring Arie along slowly, 

 

I like that you are trying to come up with a scenario that has Trent helping two guys, but he is not a LG, so he needed to get help with his assignments yesterday. He knows LT not LG. Moving him still leaves us with 2 guys who don't know their assignments. I'd rather have him at LT.

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, s0crates said:

 

I don't know, TW did have some great blocks in the running game, but I think our pass protection really suffered with Neskhe at LT. I don't know who would play G, but TW needs to be at LT protecting Kirk's blind side.

With the rhythm, quick/short passing game, and if Kirk gets rid of the ball quickly, the edge rush is actually negated, and the pressure that's most impactful actually comes up the middle.  The place where you'd see it most is in PA, or deep drops.  Where I think Ty would have to push his guy out, and Kirk would have to step up and climb the pocket.  Because if you put TW in at Guard, there WILL BE places to step up.  

3 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

Trent Williams with an all-pro move to Guard.  Don't want to see him there, but it seemed seamless to me.  What a warrior. 

He probably could be the best OL in any position except center.  He'd be a hell of a TE too.  Dude is just a physical beast. 

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The run game might be better with the new setup but in the future the pass protection will drop off without Silverback at LT. He hasn't allowed a single sack or even a single pressure through 3 games.

I don't know, I think you could scheme around it.  

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

It would be madness to move him inside long term.

Define long-term.  Oh - wait.

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

I'm defining long term as against the Browns. Moving him inside during a game when 2 lineman go down I can see. But with a week to prepare get someone else ready to play LG and leave your best O'Lineman in his natural position. With Trent at LT you can slide protections away from him and help whoever is at LG and C anyway.

I disagree.  I think you take the best 5 and put them out there every week.  I also think Arie next to Long is really weak in the middle, which would be a bigger problem than Ty being weak on the outside.  

I wouldn't want TW at guard for long, but until you find a combination that's better than Ty, Williams, Long, Sherff, Moses, I think that's how you roll.  IF you think Williams, Arie, ... is actually BETTER, then fine.  But if you don't, then why would you put out a group that's not the best you can field?

I guarantee you this: the coach up in NE with 4 SB rings and 2 losses wouldn't think twice about putting his best 5 out there in any formation to give him the advantage.  Hell, he broke convention last year by shuffling different guys in and out on the OL. He might be a SOB and a cheater, but he also knows stuff.  

Break convention. Do what you need to do to win.  

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

  I wouldn't want TW at guard for long, but until you find a combination that's better than Ty, Williams, Long, Sherff, Moses, I think that's how you roll.  IF you think Williams, Arie, ... is actually BETTER, then fine.  But if you don't, then why would you put out a group that's not the best you can field?

There is a reason though that LT is the most highly drafted and paid position on the O'Line. Its the most important. If you have an elite LT I find it really hard to understand why you would want to even think about moving him to guard or that your 'best 5' would involve him not being at that spot. I understand your argument but if Ty is part of our best 5 (I can certainly buy that) move him to LG not Williams. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, MartinC said:

There is a reason though that LT is the most highly drafted and paid position on the O'Line. Its the most important. If you have an elite LT I find it really hard to understand why you would want to even think about moving him to guard or that your 'best 5' would involve him not being at that spot. I understand your argument but if Ty is part of our best 5 (I can certainly buy that) move him to LG not Williams. 

I think Ty at LG is nowhere near as effective as TW at LG, so you just negate the purpose of doing it.  

I think the hard thing to wrap your head around is that the best 5, by position, might just have TW NOT at the premier spot of LT.  Which seems counter-intuitive.  But it really could be the case.  

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think Ty at LG is nowhere near as effective as TW at LG, so you just negate the purpose of doing it.  

I think the hard thing to wrap your head around is that the best 5, by position, might just have TW NOT at the premier spot of LT.  Which seems counter-intuitive.  But it really could be the case.  

Guess we will find out Sunday :-)

[kingarthur65]

8 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

This will probably sound stupid, because it likely is, but....

What about adjusting the OL depending upon whom we are playing. With Trent playing guard, we were opening up some nice holes right up the middle. If we face a team with premier edge rushers, then we move Williams back out to LT.

We were also playing a lot of 2TE sets when we were finally able to run the ball.

8 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

This will probably sound stupid, because it likely is, but....

What about adjusting the OL depending upon whom we are playing. With Trent playing guard, we were opening up some nice holes right up the middle. If we face a team with premier edge rushers, then we move Williams back out to LT.

We were also playing a lot of 2TE sets when we were finally able to run the ball.

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

I like that you are trying to come up with a scenario that has Trent helping two guys, but he is not a LG, so he needed to get help with his assignments yesterday. He knows LT not LG. Moving him still leaves us with 2 guys who don't know their assignments. I'd rather have him at LT.

Disagree here. Any OL worth a salt knows pretty much all the line positions across the board.

Trent knows LG just fine.

I'm not for or against moving him there for awhile, either. I know a lot of people are saying you can't - but I say why not? But to the same token, I'm not sure I'd move him either. Just I don't see why he can't play LG for the time being while we find a halfway decent replacement inside. It's actually our best OL set up with him there for the moment. I think it's insane NOT to play him there... for now.

It's not a permanent move to make, to be sure... But temporarily I don't know why you wouldn't... Unless you find someone you are comfortable with playing LG. And only the coaches know the answer to that.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

I would think they sign John Sullivan.....Give Arie first shot at LG

[carex]

56 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

I would think they sign John Sullivan.....Give Arie first shot at LG

Sullivan doesn't know the system and we might need a backup this week

[pjfootballer]

Trent is an ALL PRO LEFT TACKLE.  You put him back there and you make arrangements at LG.  It really IS that simple people. 

[carex]

9 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

Trent is an ALL PRO LEFT TACKLE.  You put him back there and you make arrangements at LG.  It really IS that simple people. 

 

Jeff Bostic was a great C, we benched him in 87 for Grimm.  We moved All Pro LT Joe Jacoby to RT then LG

[KDawg]

28 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

Trent is an ALL PRO LEFT TACKLE.  You put him back there and you make arrangements at LG.  It really IS that simple people. 

No. It's not.

You make arrangements in the long term, yes. In the interim you do what you need to do in order to put the best offensive line possible on the field. Nsheke getting reps at LT is huge and Trent shores up a porous running attack and screen game at the LG position for the time being.

[pjfootballer]

16 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Jeff Bostic was a great C, we benched him in 87 for Grimm.  We moved All Pro LT Joe Jacoby to RT then LG

Different eras man.

Bostic was sucking and Grimm moved over because we had Raleigh McKenzie coming on.  Then Grimm got hurt and Bostic went back in.  Joe was getting old and showing the wear, plus we had just traded for Jim Lachey to play LT. It extended Big Jake's career.  Trent is still All-Pro.  No reason to move him and create another weakness. Maybe in a few years I'd be for that move if he shows signs of slowing down on the outside.  Not now.

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

No. It's not.

You make arrangements in the long term, yes. In the interim you do what you need to do in order to put the best offensive line possible on the field. Nsheke getting reps at LT is huge and Trent shores up a porous running attack and screen game at the LG position for the time being.

Well yes, for a game, I'd be OK with it.  Not in the long term.

[carex]

2 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

Different eras man.

Bostic was sucking and Grimm moved over because we had Raleigh McKenzie coming on.  Then Grimm got hurt and Bostic went back in.  Joe was getting old and showing the wear, plus we had just traded for Jim Lachey to play LT. It extended Big Jake's career.  Trent is still All-Pro.  No reason to move him and create another weakness. Maybe in a few years I'd be for that move if he shows signs of slowing down on the outside.  Not now.

Well yes, for a game, I'd be OK with it.  Not in the long term.

 

Bostic had played every snap the previous year and we had reached the NFC championship game that year.  And before we acquired him Jim Lachey had been a RT, we swapped him and Jacoby

[pjfootballer]

5 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Bostic had played every snap the previous year and we had reached the NFC championship game that year.  And before we acquired him Jim Lachey had been a RT, we swapped him and Jacoby

I think we/me may have gotten our years mixed up.  Lachey wasn't on the 87-88 SB team.  It would be the following year.  Bostic was benched during the SB year, but he was also struggling with a knee or back injury I believe.  Jacoby started at LT during the SB year, but was going into his 8th/9th year in 1988 when we acquired Lachey.  I do believe Lachey started his career at RT with the Chargers, but was being groomed for LT.  With Jacoby's age/wear and tear, the switch was inevitable. 

Like I said, once Trent starts wearing down at LT, but can still play, I'd be all for a move inside.  But not now.  If it's temporary, sure.  But not long term.

[carex]

Just now, pjfootballer said:

I think we/me may have gotten our years mixed up.  Lachey wasn't on the 87-88 SB team.  It would be the following year.  Bostic was benched during the SB year, but he was also struggling with a knee or back injury I believe.  Jacoby started at LT during the SB year, but was going into his 8th/9th year in 1988 when we acquired Lachey.  I do believe Lachey started his career at RT with the Chargers, but was being groomed for LT.  With Jacoby's age/wear and tear, the switch was inevitable. 

Like I said, once Trent starts wearing down at LT, but can still play, I'd be all for a move inside.  But not now.  If it's temporary, sure.  But not long term.

 

I was just re-reding by Braves on the Warpath book.  Bostic was benched because they thought he was to small

[pjfootballer]

4 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I was just re-reding by Braves on the Warpath book.  Bostic was benched because they thought he was to small

I found an article in one of the papers.  He injured his shoulder in preseason.  Played on it and reinjured it.  I knew part of it was his play/size, but I do remember an injury. I just couldn't remember what it was.

 

"Bostic hasn't been satisfied with his snapping of late, but whatever trouble he's had is largely due to an injured shoulder. Bostic hurt the shoulder early in training camp, reinjured it in the game at Tampa Bay, but stayed in and played anyway."