LA Times: ITT Tech shuts down all its schools; students' loans might be forgiven

[GoSkins0721]

The company that operates ITT Technical Institutes said Tuesday it was permanently closing all its campuses nationwide, blaming the recent move by the U.S. Education Department to ban the for-profit college operator from enrolling new students who use federal financial aid. 

The shutdown will affect about 35,000 students who were preparing for the start of classes this month and cost more than 8,000 employees their jobs...

Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) said ITT’s announcement “should put the entire for-profit college industry on notice: Predatory practices, the exploitation of taxpayers and the deception of students have no place in our higher education system.”

“ITT Tech has cheated students, taxpayers and veterans for far too long,” he said. “Now that this bad actor has collapsed under the weight of its own wrongdoing, we must do everything we can to ensure that its former students aren’t left holding the bag.”

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-itt-tech-20160906-snap-story.html

Not sure if anyone here is impacted by this, but it seems peeps should be going to jail if this was, in fact, a scam. I smell another citizen bailout coming soon... 

[Gamebreaker]

About two decades too late for this. 

[The Evil Genius]

Part of me feels bad for the people who were suckered into this..but part of me also wishes the Government had stepped in about 10 years ago and stopped it.  Never understood why people used these over community/jucos (especially at about 5-10x the price). 

Either way, diploma mills should stop.

[SemperFi Skins]

Please tell me all these BS (bull****, not Bachelor of Science) colleges will all be shut down?! University of Phoenix, DeVry, Southeastern Middle West Side North Coast  on the Eastern Hills University., etc...

[Gamebreaker]

Someone could go to a Community College and get a better education in what ITT supposedly offered, pay way less in tuition, and have their credits transfer to a four year institution or enter the workplace.  

[The Evil Genius]

2 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Someone could go to a Community College and get a better education in what ITT supposedly offered, pay way less in tuition, and have their credits transfer to a four year institution or enter the workplace.  

 

That's what never made sense. Unless the idea was that you were getting the degree with minimal work and you were buying into their job placement. Something the latter part never delivered on for a lot of people. 

[tshile]

There was a time where I considered going there. Working full time m-f, 8-5, and attending classes 45 minutes away at GMU at night (most of which were 3 hours long) every night after work was wearing on me. Out of the house at 7am, home around 11:30 pm, only eating while driving in between. Plus I had a relationship I was dedicated to (eventually she married me; no, I don't know what's wrong with her either), and we bought a house that needed a complete overhaul - complete... It was rough. I gave up a lot of time doing things most of my friends and other people my age were doing because there just wasn't any time for it, and when there was I was exhausted. I lived like that for 4 years.

Mid terms and finals weeks? Holy ****. Especially the junior and senior level classes, where medians were in  the 50's. I had one class where 4 of us scored over 30% (I got an 88%, eat it suckers) and the other 15 were not so lucky. Good god were those weeks rough every semester.

Anyway, I sat on the phone with those ITT people once, for 30 minutes, and it just felt like a scam. The cost numbers they quoted me were absurd, but then they said things like "Don't worry about that, we have a student finance office that will you. There's grants, loans, scholarships, etc..."

It sounded awful. When I looked at their lists of degrees they offered it was a weird list. Nothing you see at the universities - certainly no Computer Science (the program I was in.) So it wasn't an option, and it sounded terrible.

I can understand why someone would think about it, because I did, I know exactly why it seems appealing. But I don't know how people get talked into going through it. I felt like I was working with a car salesman the entire time. Like I needed a shower when I was done. It felt like exactly what it was.

I guess some people have worse options and they figure it's better than nothing? Sucks. I have a short list of items that 'for profit' should not be allowed, and education is one of them*. There's a difference between paying professors/teachers top dollar for their talents and the entire institution being "for-profit" (plenty of people running not-for-profit institutions make big money, btw.)

Good riddance. Maybe these people can be redirected to community colleges, where they'll actually get some value out of their time.

*I guess I'm ok with private schools, little different animal there, that's the elitists making sure the rest of us don't soil their children. (half joking)

Then i got into a masters program and my wife and I decided to have our first kid. I figured I had done it before, why not? Except this program was ridiculously hard. Nothing like undergrad, and there's no point in doing if it you're not going to get A's. Not something I couldn't do, but I couldn't do it and be a parent. I knew it. So despite me absolutely loving the field, I dropped out.

Guess the lesson is to do this stuff when you're in your early 20's, not late 20's

8 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Someone could go to a Community College and get a better education in what ITT supposedly offered, pay way less in tuition, and have their credits transfer to a four year institution or enter the workplace.  

In virginia if you get good enough grades in their list of programs you get automatic transfer to the state universities.

I wish I would have been smart enough to go that track (though I'm happy with my life now so maybe not)

[The Evil Genius]

If it sounds like Trump U, then it's a scam.

 

 

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

If it sounds like Trump U, then it's a scam.

 

 

When someone starts telling you something is $60,000 but not to "worry about it"

 

you're being took

[Larry]

Just read what I assume was the LA Times article that started the thread.  (BTW, here's a link.) 

What I don't see in the article (or in this thread) was what the folks did that was bad, other than maybe charging too much. 

[TheGoodBits]

My mother in law's husband purchased an MBA for $30k from some online school and got straight As in his courses. He was talking about getting his PHD from there too. He was surprised when his education never really paid off at his job at a pharmaceutical factory. Fast forward a few years and the factory is laying off workers, and his job got cut. He was unemployed for months and finally got his real estate license. Jumped on with a local Keller Williams pyramid scheme and is supposedly actually (read: finally) making some money now. 

He probably could have used the money he spent a lot more than he's used his worthless MBA. 

No, he's not all that bright. But that's the kind of people these "colleges" preyed upon. 

[The Evil Genius]

7 minutes ago, Larry said:

Just read what I assume was the LA Times article that started the thread.  (BTW, here's a link.) 

What I don't see in the article (or in this thread) was what the folks did that was bad, other than maybe charging too much. 

 

From that article that has been linked twice now. 

Quote

Earlier in the month, a group that accredits ITT found that the chain failed to meet several basic standards and was unlikely to comply in the future.

 

While murky, the sharks have been swimming on these diploma mills for a little while now. Thankfully, the DOE is apparently no longer turning a blind eye to them and seeing that they have serious problems with how they advertise, how they teach, and how they promise job placement.

[Gamebreaker]

24 minutes ago, tshile said:

In virginia if you get good enough grades in their list of programs you get automatic transfer to the state universities.

I wish I would have been smart enough to go that track (though I'm happy with my life now so maybe not)

I think Maryland has a similar system, but I think you need to get an AA first or something like that. My cousin goofed off at his first four year university, wasn't mature enough to be away from home and stay focused unfortunately. Flunked out, came back home and went to a Community College for two years. Rehabilitated his GPA and grew up a little, got an AA with a 4.0 GPA along with a free ride to UMCP. All of his credits transferred and graduated 2-3 years later. He never went the ITT route, but I can definitely see someone flunking out on their first try, and figuring ITT is easier and they can still not take school seriously.

There are just way too many scams out here preying on people's ignorance. And I seriously want to know why the Dept of Education didn't make this move sooner.  

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, Larry said:

Just read what I assume was the LA Times article that started the thread.  (BTW, here's a link.) 

What I don't see in the article (or in this thread) was what the folks did that was bad, other than maybe charging too much. 

The general idea surrounding the investigations is:

- Sold on promises it couldn't keep (like job placement programs it didn't have, or that the person wouldn't qualify for, or whatever)

- Sold their financing plan in predatory ways, or had predatory practices in the background (the people who answer the phone are coached to sell the program/loan, even if it's bad for the person for whatever reason)

- Doesn't meet the standards in terms of the actual education (things like: teachers not actually being qualified to teach, curriculum being lousy, etc.)

The way this one is breaking, I don't know if we'll get the specifics unless a class action is filed by the students that attended, or criminal charges are sought.

[No Excuses]

Why did ITT and other scam for profit not been tackled earlier? Like pretty much all scams with lots of revenue, they had lobbyists on their behalf bribing off congress.

Why is something happening now? You guys can thank Elizabeth Warren and the CFPB who have been going after these predators extremely hard.

[Predicto]

These for profit colleges have turned into nothing but a direct transfer of wealth from the taxpayers to the millionaires that run them.

1) They spend more money on marketing than teaching anything, praying on people's dreams of improving themselves

2) They also help out by doing all of the financial aid "paperwork" for the applicants to get them the maximum amount of federally insured loans possible.  

3) They charge Harvard tuition for a community college level experience

4) Provide no job placement services, and even if they did, their students are not studying in fields that would ever allow them to pay back the amount of money they borrowed 

5) When the student inevitably defaults on the loans, collect from Uncle Sam.

Brilliant!    

So ITT Tech is gone, and all of the Corinthian colleges collapsed a couple of years ago.  Good riddance.

We have an enormous scam operation like this going on in San Francisco right now.   The Academy of Art college is a for profit scam with over 16,000 students.  High school kids from all over the country are lured here by the chance to learn art in glamorous San Francisco.  It charges huge tuition, and uses that money to buy more and more real estate around the city, plus one of the finest collections of antique cars in the world.  The owners are worth over 800 million dollars now.

Needless to say, there is no job market for 4000 art school graduates every year in this area, especially since there is already was a highly reputable art school in SF that filled that niche.  So none of the Academy of Art grads get jobs.  Most drop out after a couple years.  The few that graduate work at Starbucks.  This leaves their parents (and the taxpayers) with the bill.  

You can read the whole sordid story in this Forbes article.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiasavchuk/2015/08/19/black-arts-the-800-million-family-selling-art-degrees-and-false-hopes/#4e0d149b1dd9

  

[mistertim]

Good. Riddance. I almost did something with them back in the day, but like tshile I talked to them and came away with the feeling that it was a complete scam (and the need to take a shower as well). 

People and organizations that make money like this, by preying on the hopes and dreams of impressionable or desperate people, make me sick to my stomach.

[Major Harris]

Lmao at them being singled out for predatory practices.    The whole higher education system and federal student loan program was one huge predatory lender all thru the late 90s early 2ks.  **** them all with a corn cob.

[Major Harris]

financial aid offices were one step up from the 27.99% credit card offers set up outside freshman dorms / student unions.

[Popeman38]

So, how do you guys feel about AMU/APU?

[Major Harris]

17 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

So, how do you guys feel about AMU/APU?

Nothing wrong with online studies.  Noting at all if done right.  APUS is legit.

4 year degrees from brick and mortar colleges rape people just as well.   Fill u with classes you'll never need.   Only offer end of program classes every other semester so some have to stay an extra term.   Change program of studies and set students back a semester or more.   It's all a god dam ****ing racket.  

 

And they try to convince everyone it is the only way.  We need more focus on skilled labor and trades in this country.   College isn't for everyone and the unmanageable student loan debts we have are a testament to that. 

 

[Popeman38]

11 hours ago, Major Harris said:

Nothing wrong with online studies.  Noting at all if done right.  APUS is legit.

4 year degrees from brick and mortar colleges rape people just as well.   Fill u with classes you'll never need.   Only offer end of program classes every other semester so some have to stay an extra term.   Change program of studies and set students back a semester or more.   It's all a god dam ****ing racket.  

 

And they try to convince everyone it is the only way.  We need more focus on skilled labor and trades in this country.   College isn't for everyone and the unmanageable student loan debts we have are a testament to that. 

 

I am currently going to AMU/APU full time and taking a single guest class at a brick and mortar college (post-9/11 GI Bill benefits include BAH at the rate of the zip of the brick and mortar vs the "average" for online only - $2300/month vs $850/month).

15 credit hours + full time job + full time parenting = exhaustion. This equation should exempt me from the required statistics course I am putting off...

[tshile]

12 hours ago, Major Harris said:

 Only offer end of program classes every other semester so some have to stay an extra term.   Change program of studies and set students back a semester or more. 

 

Seems like weird complaints... you do have to put some planning into the scheduling. The CS and IT programs I was in definitely offered some courses only one semester a year but it's normally because prereqs kind of made it impossible to have a reasonable class the other semesters and you do have to balance it with professors and in general resource scheduling requires a little give and take in that regard. And every program study I've been in/considered had a timeline and you were held to the requirements of the program when you were accepted into the program.

[Major Harris]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Seems like weird complaints... you do have to put some planning into the scheduling. The CS and IT programs I was in definitely offered some courses only one semester a year but it's normally because prereqs kind of made it impossible to have a reasonable class the other semesters and you do have to balance it with professors and in general resource scheduling requires a little give and take in that regard. And every program study I've been in/considered had a timeline and you were held to the requirements of the program when you were accepted into the program.

 

 

Yes,  i get all that.   Planning is important, but there are definitely set traps.   

 

And i am not yapping about taking too much time to graduate.   I'm talking just straight up changing program of studies and setting students back.   I saw plenty of all of this .  

 

The whole thing is a giant racket.   

[Major Harris]

1 hour ago, Popeman38 said:

I am currently going to AMU/APU full time and taking a single guest class at a brick and mortar college (post-9/11 GI Bill benefits include BAH at the rate of the zip of the brick and mortar vs the "average" for online only - $2300/month vs $850/month).

15 credit hours + full time job + full time parenting = exhaustion. This equation should exempt me from the required statistics course I am putting off...

APUS has moved their base from sterling (i think) to my home town.   They are actively involved in the local education system and are a great asset to our community,  they've bought and fixed up half of downtown lol