The Supreme Court, and abortion.

[EmirOfShmo]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I guess now if you need an abortion you’ll have to claim it was rape…

Edited June 20, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[EmirOfShmo]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[spjunkies]

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[The Evil Genius]

 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by EmirOfShmo

[tshile]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:16 PM, The Evil Genius said:

 

the lefts misinformation campaign is growing stronger by the day. 
 

there’s nationwide shortages of obgyn’s as well as many other parts of hospital staffing. Combined with the after effects of Covid, hospitals are making lots of decisions like shutting down units. Some entire hospitals are shutting down. 
 

but no, a year old decision is not the key driver in one of many shortages in that specific industry. It certainly doesn’t help but you’re going to have to give it a few more years before you can start to make that claim. 
 

and for whatever reason on this one the person posted a screen shot, instead of retweeting like a normal person. Making it harder to actually follow the link, where you can read the nationwide shortage was cited as the issue. 
 

but it sounds better to just blame it on a year old ruling I guess. And of course the target audience doesn’t question it at all. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by tshile

[gbear]

As a member of a medical household, I can assure you decisions like this do play a part in where doctors chose to work/live.  For what it is worth, abortion is not the only decision made by non-medical people that impacts where they chose to work.  Other examples of decisions include euthanasia laws and how licensing works for the state.  I know my sister-in-law was at first very hesitant about Washington State's passing a law allowing euthanasia.  I know when I was a patient advocate on the American Board of Internal Medicine, they took states using their certification as a requirement as both a good (sign of agreement for the need) and negative (they knew it would increase blow back on their requirements for certification).  Some doctors have no desire to put in the continuing education needed for certification much less certification in multiple specialties which they may desire to practice.

 

I don't doubt the laws banning abortion play a role in where some OBGYN chose to practice.  This is made much much worse when there is ambiguity in the law and how it may be enforced.  As the one doctor in the article this morning mentioned, how long do I have to let my patient risk medical harm before I perform an abortion?  From talking to doctors, they worry about laws like this because they also don't know who is going to make the final decision on when it was "bad enough" to have done the procedures.  If they do it based on a medical need, is some right to life group going to push to have them tried?  Ambiguity of laws written by lay people, especially in a hasty manner with little or no medical review are a nightmare for the profession being regulated.  All of that has little to do with their feelings about "abortion" itself. Yes, I put it in quotes because there are procedures some would view as abortion and others would not.  For example, is removing a dead fetus an abortion?  In many abortion laws, the procedure itself is what is outlawed, especially those attempting to ban third trimester abortions.     

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

but it sounds better to just blame it on a year old ruling I guess. And of course the target audience doesn’t question it at all. 

 

I mean people DID wish the left would be more aggressive in messaging like the right is.

[PleaseBlitz]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/12/clarence-thomas-aide-venmo-payments-lawyers-supreme-court

 

Lawyers with supreme court business paid Clarence Thomas aide via Venmo

 

Quote

Several lawyers who have had business before the supreme court, including one who successfully argued to end race-conscious admissions at universities, paid money to a top aide to Justice Clarence Thomas, according to the aide’s Venmo transactions. The payments appear to have been made in connection to Thomas’s 2019 Christmas party.

 

The payments to Rajan Vasisht, who served as Thomas’s aide from July 2019 to July 2021, seem to underscore the close ties between Thomas, who is embroiled in ethics scandals following a series of revelations about his relationship with a wealthy billionaire donor, and certain senior Washington lawyers who argue cases and have other business in front of the justice.

 

Vasisht’s Venmo account – which was public prior to requesting comment for this article and is no longer – show that he received seven payments in November and December 2019 from lawyers who previously served as Thomas legal clerks. The amount of the payments is not disclosed, but the purpose of each payment is listed as either “Christmas party”, “Thomas Christmas Party”, “CT Christmas Party” or “CT Xmas party”, in an apparent reference to the justice’s initials.

 

Clarence Thomas is allowed to have friends!  And then throw a Christmas party for those friends.  AND THEN BE REIMBURSED FOR THE EXPENSES BY THOSE FRIENDS, because every Christmas party I've ever been to, I get sent a bill by the host afterwards. 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, gbear said:

As a member of a medical household, I can assure you decisions like this do play a part in where doctors chose to work/live.

For clarification - I wasn’t trying to imply it plays no role. 
 

I’m just pointing out the blatant misinformation that’s circulating. The tweet is meant to tell you that the overturning is what caused this. Which is convenient for this group of people because they loudly predicted that the overturning would cause exactly this issue. You’ve got a person that used a screen shot instead of a retweet making it hard to verify or check in on - i can’t even find their twitter account cause the handle isn’t in there and searching for them didn’t produce the result. You have to manually type in the link to get to the article - which while not hard, certainly seems to conveniently take advantage of the fact most people simply won’t do that. 
 

but the actual article cites a known, ongoing shortage that predates the decision. 
 

it cites a study by the American college of obstetricians and gynecologists that was published in 2018 about a shortage that they predict will be 22,000 people short by 2050. Well before the overturning. 
 

it cited an industry wide shortage that is going on across the nation. The medical industry has a shortage in damn near everything. Hospitals are short staffed in damn near everything. This started before Covid, and was made worse by Covid. And we are starting to see the post-Covid era decision making that was made worse by those 2-3 years in covidland. 
 

this hospital is part of a system of hospitals and is following a trend across the nation of systems of hospitals moving away from trying g to have as many different units in each hospital, to consolidating units to the best suited hospital, such that they can deal with staff shortages and financial issues but still provide the services. I’m watching children’s units consolidate due to daily census as well. 
 

all of this predates covid. It certainly predates the ruling.  Covid exacerbated it significantly. The ruling makes things worse, but as I said the key drivers here are something else. And if you want to get into shortages of medical school students you’re gonna have to wait more than a year to make those claims - and even then you’re going to have to deal with a trend that was clearly established and made significantly worse before the overturning. 
 

this is misinformation in its finest - praying on confirmation bias, preconceived notions, and a desire to claim predictions made a year ago are coming to fruition. 
 

there’s an important and real conversation to have about the post-ACA world of changes in medical providers, the surge of urgent care and minute clinic style providers replacing primary care services, and furthermore how severe things are post-Covid. 
 

you’re going to see a lot of hospitals close or reduce services. You’re going to see consolidation within hospital systems for the aforementioned reasons. We’re already seeing it. 
 

and no the overturning isn’t the key driver. And trying to make it one is muddying the waters in what is an important issue not being covered very well. And people pretending otherwise are either ignorant or intentionally spreading misinformation. 
 

none of what I said is new, hard to understand, hard to verify, or secret information. But it does require not just blindly accepting something that neatly confirms your political worldview. 

[PleaseBlitz]

Well, i was going to post that I think it's kind of weird that a medical center would stop doing deliveries but provide nearly all other types of OBGYN services if the problem is the availability of OBGYNs, but I don't think that tweet is even real.  Shouldn't Hendrick Medical Center have an @something under its name?

[tshile]

So here’s the article about the study, published in 2018, that the press release cites

 

https://qz.com/1315458/the-link-between-medicaid-and-americas-shortage-of-ob-gyns

 

Quote

Why aren’t there more OB-GYNs?

Some of the causes for the shortage are well-known, from lack of incentives to work in rural areas to the over-involvement of OB-GYNs in deliveries. But perhaps the main factor is financial, the study reveals.

OB-GYNs are among the worst-paid specialists, yet they face the second-highest malpracticeinsurance costs. Nearly 80% of ACOG’s members have faced lawsuits in their careers. About a third of them have reported making changes to their practice, for instance deciding not to take Medicaid patients, or limit them to a quota, according to an ACOG 2017 report on the OB-GYN workforce.

Another major reason for the shortage of OB-GYNs: They’re aging out of the profession. Only 16% of American OB-GYNs are under 40 years old. The average OB-GYN is 51 years old; 35% of them are above 55. OB-GYNs who provide maternity care are particularly scarce, because most stop doing this kind of work at 48, according to ACOG data.

What’s driving young doctors away?

A key to understanding what is preventing younger doctors from taking up gynecology as a career is the correlation between the share of Medicaid patients (versus commercial insurance,) a doctors’ workload, and the doctor’s age. The higher share of Medicaid patients in an area, the higher a doctor’s workload—which indicates scarcity.

Medicaid’s reimbursements for OB-GYNs are lower than commercial insurance. Doctors have complained that such low rates make it hard, if not outright impossible, to maintain a practice. Often, if a newly minted OB-GYN wants to have a successful business, he or she is more likely to set up shop in wealthier areas, where more patients have private insurance and the workload is lighter.

 

so this problem, that started well before Covid and the overturning, is believed to be caused by low pay and high malpractice lawsuits. 
 

and the low pay is linked to changes in Medicare by made by the ACA

 

this is an entirely different issue. And has little if anything to do with the ruling. It actually has to do with the ACA which, in the political sense, is a Democrats/liberal accomplishment. So we’re blaming something that’s not responsible, ignoring what is responsible, and it just conveniently works out that those two issues are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. 
 

I get for some this falls on deaf ears - but far right wannabe fascists aren’t the only ones engaging in or eagerly falling victim to misinformation campaigns. 
 

Generally it takes like 5-10 minutes to fact check stuff like this 

6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Well, i was going to post that I think it's kind of weird that a medical center would stop doing deliveries but provide nearly all other types of OBGYN services if the problem is the availability of OBGYNs, but I don't think that tweet is even real.  Shouldn't Hendrick Medical Center have an @something under its name?

I can’t find the tweet or the handle for the hospital. Although I didn’t exactly look super hard. 
 

and it cannot be ignored that musk is screwing up twitter daily and maybe that’s really what the issue is. 
 

if you type the link in the tweet in your browser it certainly does go to the press release. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by tshile

[PleaseBlitz]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

Often, if a newly minted OB-GYN wants to have a successful business, he or she is more likely to set up shop in wealthier areas, where more patients have private insurance and the workload is lighter.

 

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Well, i was going to post that I think it's kind of weird that a medical center would stop doing deliveries but provide nearly all other types of OBGYN services if the problem is the availability of OBGYNs, but I don't think that tweet is even real.  Shouldn't Hendrick Medical Center have an @something under its name?

As for what feels weird about it - it’s going on across the nation as I said earlier. Hospital systems are consolidating. It has to do with daily census and other things. 
 

in the press release they say:

they’re consolidating to another hospital 90 miles away, that is a higher level of care hospital, and has a NICU. They picked the hospital better suited for deliveries given they have the NICU. 
they also mention that they will take these patients via ambulance to that hospital. They are not turning anyone away - they are simply consolidating. Again - a trend across the nation with hospital systems and many different types of units. 

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, tshile said:

As for what feels weird about it - it’s going on across the nation as I said earlier. Hospital systems are consolidating. It has to do with daily census and other things. 
 

in the press release they say:

they’re consolidating to another hospital 90 miles away, that is a higher level of care hospital, and has a NICU. They picked the hospital better suited for deliveries given they have the NICU. 
they also mention that they will take these patients via ambulance to that hospital. They are not turning anyone away - they are simply consolidating. Again - a trend across the nation with hospital systems and many different types of units. 

 

Fair enough.  I'm also A-okay with pro-choice activists jumping on it.  It's not like the GOP wouldn't.  

[tshile]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Fair enough.  I'm also A-okay with pro-choice activists jumping on it.  It's not like the GOP wouldn't.  

It’s hard to argue against the fight fire with fire mentality. And I’ve advocated for it, although I don’t think I advocated for doing it by spreading misinformation, but I don’t recall. Maybe I did. 
 

and I’m certainly not trying to argue in support of the overturning and the various fallout. 
 

but we have quickly landed in a place with both sides are all too eager to accept misinformation, ignore they’re doing so, but accuse the other side of doing it. 
 

not to be confused with arguing that both sides are working on equally sinister motives or causing equally bad outcomes, or anything of the sort. Just pointing out it’s happening and here’s a textbook case of it. 

[PleaseBlitz]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

It’s hard to argue against the fight fire with fire mentality. And I’ve advocated for it, although I don’t think I advocated for doing it by spreading misinformation, but I don’t recall. Maybe I did. 
 

and I’m certainly not trying to argue in support of the overturning and the various fallout. 
 

but we have quickly landed in a place with both sides are all too eager to accept misinformation, ignore they’re doing so, but accuse the other side of doing it. 
 

not to be confused with arguing that both sides are working on equally sinister motives or causing equally bad outcomes, or anything of the sort. Just pointing out it’s happening and here’s a textbook case of it. 

 

I have the same feeling about this as I do about campaign finance reform.  A person can be in favor of changing a ****ty system and also take 100% advantage of that ****ty system while it's in place.  

 

Edit:  Anyways, seems like Clarence Thomas takes bribes via Venmo.  That seems like a problem. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by PleaseBlitz

[EmirOfShmo]