Burgold

The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

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Many of AOC's wet nurses tried to make the distinction between concentration camps and death camps to back up her foolish assertion. Let me tell you the difference. The people who are detained in the U.S. "concentration camps" are there of their own accord, they left their countries willingly and came to request asylum in the U.S. If asylum hopefuls wanted to leave and return to their own country, they could do that. By contrast, Jews did not willingly present themselves to the concentration camps. They were not free to go home if they wanted. Jews were taken from their communities in countries where they lived, they were rounded up and millions were killed. That was the plan, it was the final solution. The U.S. is not planning to exterminate the migrants, we did not seek them out and forceably bring them here. So no, there are not "concentration camps" in the home of the free. Thank you and goodnight.

 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/the-morning-briefing-aoc-has-some-smart-thoughts-on-the-holocaust/

 

 

 

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Everyone agrees that Trump's recent vow to step up deportations is the direct result of his bad internal polling being leaked, right?  

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2 hours ago, twa said:

Many of AOC's wet nurses tried to make the distinction between concentration camps and death camps to back up her foolish assertion. Let me tell you the difference. The people who are detained in the U.S. "concentration camps" are there of their own accord, they left their countries willingly and came to request asylum in the U.S. If asylum hopefuls wanted to leave and return to their own country, they could do that. By contrast, Jews did not willingly present themselves to the concentration camps. They were not free to go home if they wanted. Jews were taken from their communities in countries where they lived, they were rounded up and millions were killed. That was the plan, it was the final solution. The U.S. is not planning to exterminate the migrants, we did not seek them out and forceably bring them here. So no, there are not "concentration camps" in the home of the free. Thank you and goodnight.

 

 

This person managed to confuse herself in her own answer.  It is a well known historical fact that not all concentration camps were extermination camps.  Her last conclusory sentence, therefore, does not logically follow the rest of what she wrote.  Thank you and goodnight.  

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10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

This person managed to confuse herself in her own answer.  It is a well known historical fact that not all concentration camps were extermination camps.  Her last conclusory sentence, therefore, does not logically follow the rest of what she wrote.  Thank you and goodnight.  

 

Which of those 'concentration' camps could you leave if you wished?

 

Waste of time.

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3 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Which of those 'concentration' camps could you leave if you wished?

 

Waste of time.

 

Ah yes, the "if they aren't exactly alike" then "they are nothing alike" tactic.  Trump people are so good at logic. 

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Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Ah yes, the "if they aren't exactly alike" then "they are nothing alike" tactic.  Trump people are so good at logic. 

 

 

Ya'll are hilarious.

 

 

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Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

True to TWA form. 

 

True to lawyer form  yourself.

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1 minute ago, twa said:

 

True to lawyer form  yourself.

 

Exactly, the logical analysis of arguments and the rejection of ****ty ones.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said:
 

 

 

No one is more of an apologist for statist abuse of power than right wing conservatives. Pointing out the bad **** our government has done causes a brain aneurysm. Distrusting the governments ability to do good, while enabling all of its worst excesses. 

Edited by No Excuses
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53 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Ah yes, the "if they aren't exactly alike" then "they are nothing alike" tactic.  Trump people are so good at logic. 

Hey you guys do that to me all the time when I tell you your party also sucks (while not sucking as much as the GOP)

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5 hours ago, tshile said:

Hey you guys do that to me all the time when I tell you your party also sucks (while not sucking as much as the GOP)

It pains me to say it but TWA is right with this part.  Though I'm sure most here will have an excuse why it is okay and not the same.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

It pains me to say it but TWA is right with this part.  Though I'm sure most here will have an excuse why it is okay and not the same.  

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/concentration-camp

 

i don’t know if he’s right or not. That definition seems to apply. 

 

The problem is people associate them with nazi concentration camps (starvation, torture, forced labor, and execution) and the concentration camps we ran during ww2 (which weren’t those things but legal citizens were rounded up and kept in camps against their will and many lost a lot of money and possessions)

 

so the people using the word will claim there’s differences but still applies, of course they still want the imagery of nazi concentration camps to come to mind when you hear them say it. They won’t admit to that though. 

 

Theyre not legal citizens and by any reasonable measure they’re not being unlawfully detained. There is a problem with the volume resorting in backlog, but it hardly seems malicious. 

Edited by tshile

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3 minutes ago, tshile said:

i don’t know if he’s right or not. That definition seems to apply

I was only agreeing with the part I quoted.  Apparently you said that, not him.  Thought it made too much sense.

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44 minutes ago, tshile said:

They're not legal citizens and by any reasonable measure they’re not being unlawfully detained. There is a problem with the volume resorting in backlog, but it hardly seems malicious

 

You've made some valid points.  But at least from where I'm sitting, pretty much every single thing Trump has done, when it comes to immigration, has been malicious.  Heck, his supporters love it because it's malicious.  

 

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16 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You've made some valid points.  But at least from where I'm sitting, pretty much every single thing Trump has done, when it comes to immigration, has been malicious.  Heck, his supporters love it because it's malicious.  

 

This started under Obama. 

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7 minutes ago, tshile said:

This started under Obama. 

 

"This" what?  

 

Detaining people?  I'm pretty sure it started way before Obama.  

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20 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

"This" what?  

 

Detaining people?  I'm pretty sure it started way before Obama.  

Specifically the children element. The doctors notes in the original article that jumpstarted the outrage date to before Trump took office. 

 

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19 minutes ago, tshile said:

Specifically the children element. The doctors notes in the original article that jumpstarted the outrage date to before Trump took office. 

 

Which article are you talking about?  Could you link or quote it?  Not certain exactly what you're referring to here. (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just a little confused.)

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, visionary said:

Which article are you talking about?  Could you link or quote it?  Not certain exactly what you're referring to here. (I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just a little confused.)

Hmmmm I thought it was the one that started this thread but that’s not right. It may have been another thread that died out as this became the main discussion. Possible it was just in this thread somewhere but I felt like it was its own thread... anyways it was an article about the mistreatment of children crossing the border in these detention centers. Part (the main part?) of the criticism revolved around the doctors seeing the children. Doctors notes were part of it (they may have been leaked?). The article was either late 2017 or early 2018. But 3 of the doctors notes (with different patients) dates to 2016, before trump took office. Or maybe it was 2 in 2016 and 1 in January before the inauguration.  Anyways, the point of the article (and the conversation in the thread) was the slam the trump admin. I remember having a conversation with a few people over the course of a page or two about how the doctors notes dated back to the Obama admin. 

 

The only reason it think it’s important to note is the trump admin is taking all the heat for this. And they deserve to be ridiculed. But it lets a lot of other people skate that contributed to this problem, and some way more than the rest. 

 

The reason I bring it up here is this idea of it being malicious. If the mistreatment if these children and the policy in general is malicious (as opposed to the result of politicians not doing their job, and a system being immensely overloaded) then the maliciousness dates back to the Obama admin (at least.)

 

theres a lot if words to describe it. I don’t think malicious fits. 

 

(Although I consider trump, in general, to be a malicious person)

 

(oh I realize that’s not a link to the article. It’s not where I thought it was. I’m hoping this will jog your memory enough we can move on? Seems minor anyways)

Edited by tshile
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1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

You've made some valid points.  But at least from where I'm sitting, pretty much every single thing Trump has done, when it comes to immigration, has been malicious.  Heck, his supporters love it because it's malicious.  

 

I admit I totally abhor the methods he is using.  But I do agree that immigration is a major issue and think a firm position needs to be taken.  Though I don't agree with the methods currently employed.

 

His ends are wrong and his means are barbaric.  Something needs to be done.  What he is doing is wrong but at least he is bringing attention to something that needs attention. 

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