The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

“Moves the needle” is an expression that generally means makes any meaningful difference in support for/against something. 
 

no. I don’t think it makes much of a difference in the general support for the idea. 

Sounds cold the way you say it, but what you are saying is “If only15 kids died the other day that wouldn’t have been and shouldn’t have been seen as a victory by anyone” right? I agree if so. As grimy as that feels to say. 

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Sounds cold the way you say it, but what you are saying is “If only15 kids died the other day that wouldn’t have been and shouldn’t have been seen as a victory by anyone” right? I agree if so. As grimy as that feels to say. 

In part, personally, sure. I mean obviously 1 less life gone is better. But if all we do is that, and the issue continues on as it has otherwise, I wouldn’t consider it worth patting oneself on the shoulder. But that’s just me. 
 

but I was thinking more in terms of passing it as gun control. 
 

I don’t think “15 would die instead of 18, if we banned all these weapons and the shooter had to use a different gun” is going to do much to increase support for banning a type of gun. 
 

that’s just my read on things. Maybe I’m wrong. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by tshile

[The Evil Genius]

 

 

Jfc Republicans are morons.

 

 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

As a gun owner, I don't really disagree with much of this, but I have to say I'm very dubious about your last statement of being able to do more damage with the wood than the AR, unless you're talking about the damage a single round can do. But if you're talking about the number of people you could harm, there's no way you could go through rounds in the wood like you would in the AR with a 30 round mag (hell, you can buy 100 round drums too).

 

IMO semi-auto with high capacity magazines is one big part of the problem. It drastically increases the carnage one person can do vs something like bolt action.

 

The wood gun is a Springfield M1A chambered in 7.62.  Compared to an AR-15 in .223 or 5.56, the wood gun could literally blow a little kid in half (probably  the kid behind the first one also).  You can also get it in an 16" barrel (I have one) if you are working closer in.  The AR does less damage.  The M1A will also stand up to a high fire rate without seizing a lot better than a budget- friendly AR.  And you can get a 100-round drum for for the M1A.  Link below.  

 

https://drummagazines.com/Springfield-M1A-M14-Beta-C-Twin-Drum_p_449.html

 

6 hours ago, Larry said:

Which of those weapons do you figure is more deadly, in the hands of an 18 year old who bought the gun yesterday?  
 

 

Hmmm....If the kid can handle the kick of the 7.62, I'd say that one mainly because it is less likely to fail.  The mags can be a little trickery to get in.  It is more of an AK style.  But it's easy to figure out and really would only be an issue if you already had the AR style muscle memory.  But I'd say it's pretty close to a toss up.

 

Quote

And if you want to talk about experience, let's also factor in that our country has a lot of people who our government gave experience with one of them. 

 

I know. 

 

 

 

Someone asked me a while ago here that if I were so smart, how would I do a mass shooting to max effect.  After some thinking (and mod guidance), I chose not to answer.  But I will say that if max carnage is the only goal, call in a bomb threat and wait until the whole school is standing in the parking lot.  Picture Las Vegas but with little kids.

 

The reason I no longer have any ARs is partly because of the look and the message it sends.  Sort of like I say about police officer's uniforms.  I think cops in general would act a bit better if they went back to almost all of them in uniforms with a tie, not the tacti-cool stuff almost all of them wear now.  Looks affect attitudes.  Same with a "Rambo gun" versus a wood stock gun.  The underlying item (the cop or the mechanics of the gun) still has the same capabilities yet tends to act differently. 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by The Almighty Buzz
Wrong tweet

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

The wood gun is a Springfield M1A chambered in 7.62.  Compared to an AR-15 in .223 or 5.56, the wood gun could literally blow a little kid in half (probably  the kid behind the first one also).  You can also get it in an 18.5" barrel (I have one) if you are working closer in.  The AR does less damage.  The M1A will also stand up to a high fire rate without seizing a lot better than a budget- friendly AR.  And you can get a 100-round drum for for the M1A.  Link below.  

 

https://drummagazines.com/Springfield-M1A-M14-Beta-C-Twin-Drum_p_449.html

 

Ok, that's my bad then, I misidentified it since I couldn't really zoom in. I thought it was a bolt action rifle, not semi. So yeah, that's a pretty devastating weapon, especially in 7.62.

[China]

[tshile]

Lt Gov Patrick has obviously never heard of fire exits or building code 

[skinsmarydu]

After that episode with Ted Cruz, I wanna punch him ten times more than I ever did. 

And that's a whole ****in' lot.

[mistertim]

59 minutes ago, tshile said:

Lt Gov Patrick has obviously never heard of fire exits or building code 

 

Oh I'm sure he knows about it, he just doesn't care. They're not actually going to promote this nonsense beyond however long it takes for the country's collective psyche to get over this massacre. They're just throwing **** at the wall to try and deflect for long enough for this whole thing to pass. Then they'll go right back to business as usual and completely forget (again) about mental health and whatever other stuff they're throwing around.

 

Just a stupid dog and pony show.

[ixcuincle]

I've noticed more and more celebrities speaking up about what's going on. I hope this is a tipping point and that people are finally fed up with all this senseless violence.

 

This is so easy to do, but certain people won't allow it.

 

Just ban assault guns. And make people take a test and be competent to have a gun. 18 year olds shouldn't have guns.

 

How is this so hard?

[China]

8 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

I've noticed more and more celebrities speaking up about what's going on. I hope this is a tipping point and that people are finally fed up with all this senseless violence.

 

This is so easy to do, but certain people won't allow it.

 

Just ban assault guns. And make people take a test and be competent to have a gun. 18 year olds shouldn't have guns.

 

How is this so hard?

 

LIsten, I'm all for gun control, but saying 18 year olds shouldn't have guns is nonsense.  Then they shouldn't be able to join the military.  Many younger folk are quite knowledgeable and responsible with guns, but there should be restrictions, licensing, insurance, etc.

[ixcuincle]

Just now, China said:

 

LIsten, I'm all for gun control, but saying 18 year olds shouldn't have guns is nonsense.  Then they shouldn't be able to join the military.  Many younger folk are quite knowledgeable and responsible with guns, but there should be restrictions, licensing, insurance, etc.

Those are employees of the military then. But a troubled 18 year old shouldn't buy a gun. Period.

 

Background checks, less guns, whatever. Just make this stop. This should be the LAST event of gun violence at a school. The LAST.

 

NO MORE

[China]

1 minute ago, ixcuincle said:

Those are employees of the military then. But a troubled 18 year old shouldn't buy a gun. Period.

 

Background checks, less guns, whatever. Just make this stop. This should be the LAST event of gun violence at a school. The LAST.

 

NO MORE

 

Nice thought, but that's fantasyland.  Nothing's going to change, except maybe gun sales will increase.

[skinsmarydu]

11 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

I 18 year olds shouldn't have guns.

 

How is this so hard?

As someone else posted, if you wanna be an 18-year-old G.I.Joe, join the Army.  I totally agree.

[ixcuincle]

15 minutes ago, China said:

 

Nice thought, but that's fantasyland.  Nothing's going to change, except maybe gun sales will increase.

I'm pretty pessimistic anything will change. But if you get enough pissed off people change can happen. This needs to be the new BLM or BoycottDan. We need grassroots action and protests to overturn the very strong NRA.

 

I saw on TV today students walked out (even locally in Falls Church) to protest gun violence. We need to get this trending on social media. Many social causes have been spread through awareness by athletes and public figures demanding change. This needs to be the new anti-police / BLM. We must be very vocal about change in order to force any meaningful legislation.

 

They changed the name of our precious football team due to outrage. They enacted new laws on policing locally, based on outrage. They can do the same here. Keep fighting.

Edited May 27, 2022 by ixcuincle

[ixcuincle]

 

[mojo]

The more I read about the police response, the more angry I get.  The shooter was outside the school for 12 minutes, inside for an hour.  Cops pepper spraying parents trying to get in to save their kids while the cops do nothing.  Unimaginable.

[tshile]

34 minutes ago, China said:

insurance

There we go

 

Spin up a market for it

mandate it by law

let insurers judge their clients 

by what kind of guns and ammo they own

#capitalism

 

Bet you’ll simply get a lot of guns off the streets by people being encouraged to dump those guns they have because <whatever> but it’s not worth insuring against and hey they’ll give me $X for turning it in anyways. 
 

There’s a solution here. It’s not perfect but it creates the mechanism for it to self improve 

[China]

 

[tshile]

They could even require anual training to be covered. 

Market forces baby!

Let them solve the problem for us 

Here we’ll let this huge for profit enterprise market exist simply because they’ll invest in figuring out which ones of you shouldn’t own guns

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, ixcuincle said:

I've noticed more and more celebrities speaking up about what's going on. I hope this is a tipping point and that people are finally fed up with all this senseless violence.

 

This is so easy to do, but certain people won't allow it.

 

Just ban assault guns. And make people take a test and be competent to have a gun. 18 year olds shouldn't have guns.

 

How is this so hard?

 

I think one of the issues here is how do you define "assault guns"?

 

Any AR platform (AR actually stands for Armalite, the first manufacturer of the platform, not Assault Rifle)? Any semi-auto rifle? Any rifle? Just high cap magazines? Too often people throw out the assault weapon tag without actually being able to define what they mean by it.

[tshile]

If you wanted to target ar15 specific (and I think a few other models) you could ban guns that use a gas tube 

[visionary]

 

[China]

Illinois Sheriff Raffles Off Guns Morning After Texas School Massacre

 

The current sheriff of Monroe County, Illinois, is drawing heat from some of his own constituents after announcing yesterday that he is raffling off two firearms to raise money for his election bid.

 

Monroe County Sheriff Neal Rohlfing announced early yesterday morning on his Facebook page that, "We currently have a gun raffle going on to support my re-election as Monroe County Sheriff." The post went on to say that the two guns being raffled off were a Smith & Wesson 556 caliber AR pistol and a Glock 43 9 mm pistol. "The first winner will get the choice of the two."

 

The announcement came less than 24 hours after the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, in which 19 children and two teachers were killed by gunman with an AR-15-style rifle. The gunman was killed by law enforcement.

 

Monroe County sits just across the Mississippi, bordering St. Louis and Jefferson counties.

 

Rohlfing, who has been sheriff since 2014, is running for re-election unopposed.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]