The Gun Control Debate Thread

[LadySkinsFan]

They still should be tried and innocent until proven guilty. So I don't see any rights being trampled.

 

If someone can't buy or doesn't want to buy a gun themselves, then there's something wrong. People should be put on notice that something's wrong.

 

We need more real world education starting in middle school, what laws are, what penalties are.

 

Leaving it up to parents to educate isn't working.

[twa]

38 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

They still should be tried and innocent until proven guilty. So I don't see any rights being trampled.

 

 

 

But the charge cannot be the same

 

add

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/killer-girlfriend-sentenced-supplying-murder-weapon-ind-murders-article-1.1962390

felony conviction for supplying the gun and addition charge of accessory.

Edited November 16, 2017 by twa

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just did some reading up on Maryland gun laws.  I'm thinking about going up to my sisters for Thanksgiving.  Having come from Florida with my CCW permit and now living in Virginia, I wasn't sure what to expect.  Holy crap, MD has some very restrictive laws.  Certainly affects my considering where to retire.  I have been on board with some increased gun control here but MD I consider to be way too far.  I would like to see the Supreme Court tell them to throttle back some.

[LadySkinsFan]

I bought my one gun when I lived in Maryland. Had to wait two weeks for the state police background check. Didn't affect me at all. 

 

Maybe a cooling off period between applying a actually getting the gun would save some lives. You never know.

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I bought my one gun when I lived in Maryland. Had to wait two weeks for the state police background check. Didn't affect me at all. 

 

Maybe a cooling off period between applying a actually getting the gun would save some lives. You never know.

I'm actually fine with that.  

 

My problem is more once you legally own a gun, the inability to have it with you.  Unloaded and locked in a separate compartment in my vehicle?  Can't carry it anywhere off my property?  No thanks.  I'm fine with not letting people carry an AR or pistol with a 30 round magazine.  But not even a pocket revolver for personal protection?  Seems too far for me.

[LadySkinsFan]

No reciprocal concealed carry? 

 

That's a bummer.

[tshile]

13 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Just did some reading up on Maryland gun laws.  I'm thinking about going up to my sisters for Thanksgiving.  Having come from Florida with my CCW permit and now living in Virginia, I wasn't sure what to expect.  Holy crap, MD has some very restrictive laws.  Certainly affects my considering where to retire.  I have been on board with some increased gun control here but MD I consider to be way too far.  I would like to see the Supreme Court tell them to throttle back some.

MD is incredibly strict.

 

In order to get a CCW you have to be able to demonstrate a need, which is pretty strict. You pretty much have to have a job that makes you a target - like collecting rent from people in a high crime area, so you're likely to be carrying large sums of cash.

 

You mention separate compartment when you have one in the car, but I believe it's more strict than that. You have to actually have a reason to have it with you. If you're going to the range to shoot, or have the weapon worked on, that's fine. But you can't just have it in your trunk.

 

MD is a very liberal state. 

 

I like VA's laws. They let you have a CCW and they are not very restrictive in ownership/carry, but their rules on using a gun are very simple and clear. And they're very strict on that.

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

No reciprocal concealed carry? 

 

That's a bummer.

Nope.

 

Maryland is a state that the gun crowd gets nervous about when we talk about increasing gun control. At least the non crazy ones that don't think everybody is coming to take our guns. But I really don't want to see the rest of the country end up with gun laws like Maryland. To me they're gun laws are way too far left.

[LadySkinsFan]

Look at Massachusetts gun laws. Permits and ID cards for purchase of guns and ammo. Plus, if someone breaks into your house with a gun, and you can get out of your house, you can't shoot in self-defense. That's right, if you can leave your house, you must. That's whack! 

 

Glad I am moving to Texas where I will get my concealed carry permit with lots of reciprocal states.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I think the way to bring both sides together for reasonable gun control is to tighten up some rules (background checks, "gun show loophole", other things) in exchange for making some of these states loosen their rules.  I know that goes completely against the whole states rights thing I am usually a big fan of.  But I think it would get it done.  It will never happen though.  Negotiation??????  Never heard of her.

[Chew]

45 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Glad I am moving to Texas where I will get my concealed carry permit with lots of reciprocal states.

 

Hell yeah!    Now to get you rifled up, LSF! 

 

I checked the MD gun laws when I got out of the military, one of the reasons I didn't move back home to the DMV.   

 

 

26 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think the way to bring both sides together for reasonable gun control is to tighten up some rules (background checks, "gun show loophole", other things) in exchange for making some of these states loosen their rules.  I know that goes completely against the whole states rights thing I am usually a big fan of.  But I think it would get it done.  It will never happen though.  Negotiation??????  Never heard of her.

 

I'd be all for this.  But as you said, folks on both sides are incredibly stubborn and wouldn't give an inch in terms of compromise.   

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

 

I checked the MD gun laws when I got out of the military, one of the reasons I didn't move back home to the DMV.   

 

 

The V in DMV seems pretty gun friendly.

[Chew]

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

The V in DMV seems pretty gun friendly.

 

I hate Virginia LOL.  Always have.  I got harassed by police frequently.  But that's for another thread   

Edited November 20, 2017 by Chew

[tshile]

 

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Look at Massachusetts gun laws. Permits and ID cards for purchase of guns and ammo. Plus, if someone breaks into your house with a gun, and you can get out of your house, you can't shoot in self-defense. That's right, if you can leave your house, you must. That's whack! 

 

Glad I am moving to Texas where I will get my concealed carry permit with lots of reciprocal states.

 

in VA where you are (house, main street, movie theater) is irrelevant (despite what many VA residents seem to think...)

 

you're allowed to use deadly force in self defense if you fear you, or another person, is at risk of death or great bodily harm. that's the standard.

the exception is that you are required to make every reasonable effort to de-escalate a situation, and you are not permitted to (under any circumstance) escalate a situation.

 

so if dude punches you in the bar, and you go get your gun out of your car, come back in and he punches you again and you shoot him... you can't claim self defense.

 

however, claiming you were in fear for your life when someone breaks into your house at 2 AM is pretty easy to claim and defend. Most people would find that a reasonable claim. so you're not explicitly granted the right to shoot a person for breaking into your house, but... you are pretty much allowed to as long as you can reasonably defend you were in fear for you life (or the life of another)

 

I believe they changed that because they got tired of kids being shot for stealing a playstation from a buddy's house. I think it was happening too much in the 90's or whenever they changed.

 

kind of hard to claim you were in fear for you life if you shot the dude in the back in the entry way to your house, and there's a busted 60" TV laying on the ground next to him... you know?

 

 

5 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

I hate Virginia LOL.  Always have.  I got harassed by police frequently.  But that's for another thread   

 

the police here are no joke. they don't screw around and are everywhere.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I would like to see, at a minimum, a law that allows military members to have reasonable carry rules in states that don't allow it for their citizens (ie. MD).  If you live in Maryland and hate their gun laws that much, move.  Military members don't have that luxury.  It was actually a big consideration when I was applying for orders.  No way was I applying for orders to CA or MD.  But I could still have been forced to go there.

1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

 

the police here are no joke. they don't screw around and are everywhere.

I was surprised when I moved here to VA the lack of people I saw carrying a gun.  I thought being an open carry state, I would see it a lot.  I asked a buddy of mine and he said people don't because the cops will harrass you.  Then I saw a guy carrying at Home Depot and asked him.  He said he has never been bothered.  

[tshile]

@TheGreatBuzz

police, active and retired, have that. i believe bush put it into affect following 9/11.

 

it's had strict requirements. had to qualify every year, and your permit got a list of guns you qualified with. you had to qualify with every make/model you wanted to carry. if it wasn't on the list, you couldn't carry it.

 

i believe they've lifted that restriction, or maybe just expanded it to cover a wide range of common and similar guns.

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I was surprised when I moved here to VA the lack of people I saw carrying a gun.  I thought being an open carry state, I would see it a lot.  I asked a buddy of mine and he said people don't because the cops will harrass you.  Then I saw a guy carrying at Home Depot and asked him.  He said he has never been bothered.  

 

um, i've definitely never seen cops harass someone for that.

 

other things, sure. that? no.

 

open carry is very common in this state, it depends on where you are though. i don't see it as much in northern VA, Richmond, or SE VA. I'm just outside northern VA and every dip**** looking 20 year old seems to have on hanging off their pants. looks like it's going to fall off.

 

and every old dude's got one.

 

and if you see an old dude around here and you don't see his gun, then that just means he's got a CHP and so it's under his shirt.

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

@TheGreatBuzz

police, active and retired, have that. i believe bush put it into affect following 9/11.

 

it's had strict requirements. had to qualify every year, and your permit got a list of guns you qualified with. you had to qualify with every make/model you wanted to carry. if it wasn't on the list, you couldn't carry it.

 

I remember hearing about that.  I think it applies to military also but on people in a military police type role.  

 

I'm not asking to be able to carry my AR wherever I want but at least allow us to carry a pistol.  After all, I didn't choose to live in a stupid state that is scared of guns.  I was forced to.

[tshile]

ar-15s for sale for <500 on black friday

With one you get a free .22 revolver

 

Ak47s on sale for 500$ but only in polymer. The walnuts are sold out

 

I would have bought a wood stock AK. I never wanted an AR but that's a good deal...

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, tshile said:

ar-15s for sale for <500 on black friday

With one you get a free .22 revolver

 

Ak47s on sale for 500$ but only in polymer. The walnuts are sold out

 

I would have bought a wood stock AK. I never wanted an AR but that's a good deal...

Got a link?  

[twa]

This looks interesting at $400

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[DogofWar1]

On 11/23/2017 at 8:28 PM, TheGreatBuzz said:

Got a link?  

Given the ruling in Kolbe, those are probably liquidation sales.  Move inventory before a bunch of states follow suit.

 

Kolbe is probably the biggest development in 2nd Amendment Law World since Heller.  The Circuit Court ruled that AR-15s and AK-47s are not constitutionally protected as they are more suitable for military service than civilian use.

 

This article, though I disagree with its discussion on the denial being out of line with Heller, actually does a decent job of explaining what exactly happened, in between the bouts of tantrum over it.

 

As to whether the court is out of line with Heller, I disagree.  Heller discussed guns used commonly for lawful purposes.  The 4th Circuit here made the point that these firearms are more suited to military use.

 

Reading between the lines, the logic isn't unclear.  Every lawful purpose for which these banned guns can be used can be accomplished with a weapon more suitable for civilian use.  There is no civilian firearm use for which the banned weapons are the only, or probably even the most, suitable option.  Indeed their unique qualities are, as the 4th circuit pointed out, better suited for military use, which implies not lawful civilian activity.  Seeing as they have no unique commonly lawful purpose, and their unique qualities tend towards unlawful conduct, it makes sense that they would fall outside of constitutional protection.

[tshile]

still requires the state to ban them, correct?

 

or do you think there's actual willpower to push that to the federal level?

 

seems to me even democrats are scared of the NRA.

[tshile]

also - i believe that's the first meaningful court victory the liberals have had on gun control in a while.

 

for quite a while now they've been on the losing side of them.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:37 PM, LadySkinsFan said:

Look at Massachusetts gun laws. Permits and ID cards for purchase of guns and ammo. Plus, if someone breaks into your house with a gun, and you can get out of your house, you can't shoot in self-defense. That's right, if you can leave your house, you must. That's whack!

If you can get out without killing the person, how is it self defense?