Springfield Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, grego said: here's an article thats floating around. i'd like to get peoples general thoughts on it. it is obviously from a biased, pro gun standpoint. knowing that, is there some truth to what is being claimed- that psychiatric drugs are playing a role in many of these shootings? the article does go a little alex jones/conspiracy theorist for a minutes in the beginning, in terms of people dying in mysterious circumstances, so do your best to get past that. my questions would be- are the facts being presented true (even if from a biased source)? is there a comparable number of shootings that are committed by people who arent on these kinds of drugs? to asburys point, are these drugs as widely used in other countries as they are here, and that, combined with our access to powerful weapons, creates a potentially disastrous combination? I dont know the answers. and probably the main reason i'm posting this and asking is because i'd love to know the 'why' as far as these mass shootings, which would hopefully lead to them being largely, at least, a thing of the past. (not ruling out gun control measures, for the record) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and it’s not the weapons used. The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes...... .......... • Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public. • Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded. • Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event. • Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac." http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs Yes, I think that all people who are on, or have been on, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, anti-psychotic, etc should be barred from owning guns. Possibly alcohol related offenses. Thats where the mental health conversation tends to end though. People don’t want to discuss it, rather just say it’s a problem and move on to the next mass murder. If you’re going to prevent mass murders by taking the mental health approach, you’re going to have to take guns away from people who don’t think they should be taken away from. That or they won’t ever seek mental health in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Counterpoint: We still led the world by a large margin in mass shootings and gun violence decades before Prozac was invented. The main issue of late is the lethality and availability of the weapons used. Frequency and casualties are way up...and that has nothing to do with Prozac. Edit: As a way to shift the conversation away from the Full Auto Converted, high-capacity, body armored elephant in the room its a delicious piece of spin for the NRA cultists. Edited November 7, 2017 by TryTheBeal! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 IF. If I need it. Plenty of us buy things that we rarely use... But if we need it. I might not need bottled water, but I always have it. I might not need a candle or matches...but I always have it. I might not.... Not in a hoarder type of mindset, nor an end of world mindset... I just have those things. Just in case. I would rather have it, than be without the option of having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 with the amount of guns in circulation already, if steps are taken to strengthen security measures and reduce high powered/automatic guns - how to we stop the after market movement of guns? If someone is set on an end result, they'll be able to accomplish if they wish. With technology where it's at, you can pretty much get what you want and not have it traceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, steve09ru said: With technology where it's at, you can pretty much get what you want and not have it traceable. If that was the case... It is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: If that was the case... It is not the case. why do you say that? from a currency standpoint you can through bitcoin, you can also muck with ip addresses - those 2 alone can put it under the radar and give someone enough of a head start. By the way, it's already happening through drugs, trafficking, etc. Edited November 7, 2017 by steve09ru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 According to this research, increasing the number of guns in American will have a single predictable result...more mass murders and more violent gun deaths. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, visionary said: That is already the law barring sales from any gun dealer...the law says any court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 this happens WAY too much and all we can offer is our thoughts and prayers and condolences but when it comes time for action nothing gets done. Instead the gun lobby and Republicans like our "beloved" President claim it's a mental health issue or that you can't stop crazy. You can't stop crazy. We need to fix our mental health system. But we also need extreme vetting. I saw on CNN this morning, John King was like "You got extreme vetting for that dude that ran a truck in NYC but not for Americans with guns why not" It's very sad If any issue angers me greatly it is gun control because I honestly believe you don't need a gun to live life. But mah second amendment , but that guy shot him and stopped it from getting out of control. Tell me why you need an assault rifle or a pistol. What good could come out of that. Oh by the way that mental health issue, countries in Europe have similar statistics but the US is the one with the most workplace / gun fatalities. And that is why? just ****ing read what this man had to say “I’ve been to too many moments of silences. In just my short career in Congress, three of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history have occurred. I will not be silent. What we need is we need action. We need to pass gun safety legislation now.” I think one person on Twitter, a reporter, put it succinctly as this. Any hope of Gun control died when kids were shot in an elementary school and Congress did nothing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I'm sure his walking out will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Buybacks. 200% on the assessed value. I bet there are a lot of broke people who would sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, twa said: I'm sure his walking out will help. Yeah he's actually working to get legislation done, something that hasn't been done even though some wacko shot up a bunch of kids at an elementary school. I mean the aversion to gun control in this country is disturbing and likely a strong reason why these incidents persist every day. Every day we hear about the "new worst massacre" in US history. I'm also sick and tired of hearing about it. We have to take action NOW. It is out of control. I am sick and tired of hearing about innocent people murdered in our churches, concerts, places of work, and even our colleges. When will this stop? When will we, in ADDITION to our thoughts and prayers, stand up and take action? The sad thing is these incidents happen so much there is a strong fear, as mentioned on the news, that we have become desensitized. We must never be desensitized to acts of terror. It seems too often innocent people die, we offer our thoughts and prayers, then we move on with our lives, nothing changes. No laws are amended to make sure it's more difficult to get weapons. If laws are proposed, they are struck down by a overly powerful gun lobby claiming "second amendment rights". And then another incident will happen. And then we, in our cycle that we have become accustomed to, offer thoughts and prayers again and again move on with our lives, without anything changing. If nothing changes, I fear that this will just become a regular occurrence, a rut that we can't break out of because nobody is doing anything to "change the norm". so to speak. This MUST not be the status quo. I've had enough of watching these incidents on TV every two or three weeks. Stand up and MAKE A CHANGE. THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, ixcuincle said: I think one person on Twitter, a reporter, put it succinctly as this. Any hope of Gun control died when kids were shot in an elementary school and Congress did nothing. This X10000. I honestly gave up on thinking anything will happen. That and after Vegas, where even the NRA said bump stocks should be more regulated, still nothing has happened. Part of that I am happy about. I think a lot of the changes being proposed here got too far. But I am for some "common sense" reforms. But like I said in the other thread, no agreement will ever happen because the story will be spun into a 30-second commercial next election cycle saying that person wants to take away all guns/give a gun to every toddler (depending on the letter after their name). And that is not just gun control, that is every topic facing our nation today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 48 minutes ago, Springfield said: Buybacks. 200% on the assessed value. I bet there are a lot of broke people who would sell. I'd sell several ....and upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 hours ago, steve09ru said: with the amount of guns in circulation already, if steps are taken to strengthen security measures and reduce high powered/automatic guns - how to we stop the after market movement of guns? If someone is set on an end result, they'll be able to accomplish if they wish. With technology where it's at, you can pretty much get what you want and not have it traceable. Yes, better gun control will not be an instant, 100% effective, fix. Obviously we shouldn't get started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, Larry said: Yes, better gun control will not be an instant, 100% effective, fix. Obviously we shouldn't get started. Problem is two fold..... 1) How do we get the politicians to do something? As pointed out above, if Sandy Hook and Vegas haven't driven change, what will? 2) The harder one. What is "better gun control"? I bet you and I disagree on this. So how do find the middle ground? And then how do we make #1 happen if we ever were able to agree on something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Edited November 7, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, twa said: I'm sure his walking out will help. An article wouldn’t have been written if he stayed. You really just fail to grasp the purpose of protest don’t you? I guess that comes with a life of privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: An article wouldn’t have been written if he stayed. You really just fail to grasp the purpose of protest don’t you? I guess that comes with a life of privilege. I don't think it has to do with a life of privilege. It has to do with everything that has happened over the years and thinking that THAT will cause some form of change. Of course, it is TWA so who knows...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I don't think it has to do with a life of privilege. It has to do with everything that has happened over the years and thinking that THAT will cause some form of change. Of course, it is TWA so who knows...... Dunno, it just seems that twa-bot is always on the side being protested against, so it’s natural to assume that his privilege has placed him in a place where he just doesn’t get what all the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Dunno, it just seems that twa-bot is always on the side being protested against, so it’s natural to assume that his privilege has placed him in a place where he just doesn’t get what all the fuss is about. Yea thats why I included the TWA disclaimer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: An article wouldn’t have been written if he stayed. You really just fail to grasp the purpose of protest don’t you? I guess that comes with a life of privilege. I grasp the futility of his protest....but I have that privilege. An article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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