The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Momma There Goes That Man]

5 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Really ??? My wife is supposed to fight a man ? 

That's just silly. 

 

No she shouldn't, nobody should. Cooler heads should prevail. If you punch a guy for grabbing your wife's ass, an argument could be made that someone with that short of a temper/fuse maybe shouldn't handling killing machines either. 

 

There are a lot of ways that situation can be handled that don't involve fighting but that probably doesn't appeal to the macho "i'm a man and thus must assert my superior masculinity into all things" crowd that enjoys feeling like they have 2 dicks when they carry.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Then maybe the dumb college kids will smarten up and either not get drunk or not be violent when drunk. 

 

They are kids though and make mistakes.  And are supposed to learn from their mistakes.  Two guys or two girls get into a fight at a party cause one's boyfriend/girlfriend cheated on them with that other person there, just silly ****.  They catch the lowest misdemeanor assault charge (basically fighting where neither need medical attention).  So 10-20 years later, after they have learned from their mistakes and have been a great person, etc. they still shouldn't be allowed to purchase a firearm?  

 

What about the cases where someone is defending themselves, but they know martial arts and after getting jumped or hit first, they beat the **** out of the attacker.  It goes to court and the victim gets an assault charge because they know how to defend themselves and how to fight (training) and the other person caught a beat down.  Not common, but it has happened in the past.  The person that was attacked first now has a charge, they shouldn't be able to buy a firearm now?

 

Lots of examples and various situations that could happen to someone and it was never anything more than getting into a fight one time, or hanging with a buddy and being guilty by association, etc.

[twa]

22 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Really ??? My wife is supposed to fight a man ? 

That's just silly. 

 

She should probably excuse violence in defense of another....particularly sexual assault or such.

 

Or stopping a thief, or .....

[Kosher Ham]

20 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

No she shouldn't, nobody should. Cooler heads should prevail. If you punch a guy for grabbing your wife's ass, an argument could be made that someone with that short of a temper/fuse maybe shouldn't handling killing machines either. 

 

There are a lot of ways that situation can be handled that don't involve fighting but that probably doesn't appeal to the macho "i'm a man and thus must assert my superior masculinity into all things" crowd that enjoys feeling like they have 2 dicks when they carry.  

 

True, my wife would probably shoot him. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Somebody gropes a woman against her wishes (my wife, somebody else's wife, whatever) in my presence and he's getting busted up...

 

 

if if I weren't such an incredible ****,

[LadySkinsFan]

Women have to deal with being groped by men every day when by themselves, and deal with it. Why do men think that they have to punch someone out, protecting "their woman"? Sounds like protecting one's property.

 

 

[twa]

3 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Women have to deal with being groped by men every day when by themselves, and deal with it. Why do men think that they have to punch someone out, protecting "their woman"? Sounds like protecting one's property.

 

 

 

My wife is my property, and I hers.

There is also the weaker sex thing(generally speaking) and I tend to protect even weaker males if the need arises

 

 

got your back Sacks 

[grego]

31 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Women have to deal with being groped by men every day when by themselves, and deal with it. Why do men think that they have to punch someone out, protecting "their woman"? Sounds like protecting one's property.

 

 

 

There are definitely some men who see their girlfriends or wives like that.

 

I think the main motivation for a physical reaction to someone grabbing a woman is less cynical. I don't know if it's nature or cultural (probably more nature) but protecting women in general, or children, the elderly, even animals, just by virtue of the fact that they aren't typically physically match a typical male seems like a normal, good, positive instinct. And many of those don't have a "property" characteristic to them the way a wife might. 

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

But why react with violence? I can see if someone is attacking to cause great harm, one can use equal force to repel an attack. That's not what I am referring to. But to punch someone out, to instinctively react with violence? 

 

We must learn to be better. It's not being soft, it's not overreacting, it's learning to control ourselves.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

3 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

But why react with violence? I can see if someone is attacking to cause great harm, one can use equal force to repel an attack. That's not what I am referring to. But to punch someone out, to instinctively react with violence? 

 

We must learn to be better. It's not being soft, it's not overreacting, it's learning to control ourselves.

 

It's ok if it's a Cowboys, Eagles or Giants fan that we are knocking out right?

Edited November 10, 2017 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Somebody can go from a responsible gun owner to not in a fairly short time. I don't think relaxing rules for proven responsibility really helps here. 

 

Plus you are introducing a lot of gray area for a dog and pony show style "see i'm responsible" label and then who cares what happens after that. 

Well I could have defined what I would be willing to consider a "responsible gun owner".  I just kind of made up the term and off the top of my head, would have requirements to get that designation.  I could see a reasonable training every 5 years or something.  But the give and take for me to agree to something like that is it would become a federal permit that localities couldn't overrule.  

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

No she shouldn't, nobody should. Cooler heads should prevail. If you punch a guy for grabbing your wife's ass, an argument could be made that someone with that short of a temper/fuse maybe shouldn't handling killing machines either. 

 

There are a lot of ways that situation can be handled that don't involve fighting but that probably doesn't appeal to the macho "i'm a man and thus must assert my superior masculinity into all things" crowd that enjoys feeling like they have 2 dicks when they carry.  

While I don't 100% agree with you, I get what you are saying.  But I also don't think that if I did that when I was 18 and am now 50, I should still not be allowed to have a gun.  People mature (usually).  I could maybe to talked into a rule that if you are convicted of a violent act in the last 3-ish years, you can't carry a gun off your property.  

3 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Somebody gropes a woman against her wishes (my wife, somebody else's wife, whatever) in my presence and he's getting busted up...

 

 

if if I weren't such an incredible ****,

That's pretty much where I'm at.  You grope my wife, it will cost you a few teeth.  But that is the only thing that might.  If some perv tries to grab my 14 year old nephew, he will pay the same price.  Some tries to kick my dog (like really try to hurt one), again same price.  Etc......

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Women have to deal with being groped by men every day when by themselves, and deal with it. Why do men think that they have to punch someone out, protecting "their woman"? Sounds like protecting one's property.

 

 

I'm pretty sure if some girl tried to grab my dick, my wife would probably punch her.  So I don't think it is a gender thing.

12 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

But why react with violence? I can see if someone is attacking to cause great harm, one can use equal force to repel an attack. That's not what I am referring to. But to punch someone out, to instinctively react with violence? 

 

We must learn to be better. It's not being soft, it's not overreacting, it's learning to control ourselves.

I get you think that.  I disagree though.  There are some things that a person deserves to get popped in the mouth.  You're telling me there is nothing that would drive you to that?  Some homophobic white supremacist comes up and spits in your face, you are that confident you could control your emotions?

[twa]

10 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

But why react with violence? I can see if someone is attacking to cause great harm, one can use equal force to repel an attack. That's not what I am referring to. But to punch someone out, to instinctively react with violence? 

 

We must learn to be better. It's not being soft, it's not overreacting, it's learning to control ourselves.

 

Violence is the only thing some people understand.

Besides it can be therapeutic.

 

I do agree it needs to be needed though....like repeat offenders

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Women have to deal with being groped by men every day when by themselves, and deal with it. Why do men think that they have to punch someone out, protecting "their woman"? Sounds like protecting one's property.

 

 

 

My wife would slap the **** out of someone if they grabbed her ass or groped her, I don't worry about that at all.  I don't/can't speak for all men, but if another man did this to my wife in front of me, that's not only disrespecting my wife, it's disrespecting me and my marriage.  So, it becomes instinct to protect or stand beside your spouse and take a stand.

 

Me personally, after my wife slaps the **** out of them (cause I know she would), I'm approaching him and shoving him away from my wife and telling him to leave.  Where it goes from there, well that depends on their next move.  And none of it means we treat our women/wives like property.  But taking care of family first is a priority.  

[LadySkinsFan]

54 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I get you think that.  I disagree though.  There are some things that a person deserves to get popped in the mouth.  You're telling me there is nothing that would drive you to that?  Some homophobic white supremacist comes up and spits in your face, you are that confident you could control your emotions?

 

Yes, I am not violent, I would walk away and calling them out. 

 

I have been through gun training and the legal use of force, something everyone should have. So unless someone is threatening my life or the life of someone close to me, I walk away. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

Yes, I am not violent, I would walk away and calling them out. 

 

I have been through gun training and the legal use of force, something everyone should have. So unless someone is threatening my life or the life of someone close to me, I walk away. 

 

 

Well you have more restraint than the vast majority of the population, I believe.  Can you admit that you are more than likely in the small minority of you actually can have this self control?

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well you have more restraint than the vast majority of the population, I believe.  Can you admit that you are more than likely in the small minority of you actually can have this self control?

 

In my nearly 48 years on the planet, I have never once witnessed a woman slap a man in the face for groping her.  I've seen them raise hell and get away 100% of the time.

 

Life isn't a movie, Buzz.

[TheGreatBuzz]

10 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

In my nearly 48 years on the planet, I have never once witnessed a woman slap a man in the face for groping her.  I've seen them raise hell and get away 100% of the time.

 

Life isn't a movie, Buzz.

Well that wasn't the only situation where someone would be possibly driven to understandable violence.  Have you ever seen a women slap a guy (or another women) for something?  Maybe being groped, or maybe something vulgar being said, maybe something else?  

 

Or just someone immature hit someone for something that they probably deserved to get hit for but the person still should have known better?  I know when I was younger, I on more than one occasion, hit someone for something.  I've grown up since then though.  I don't think that means I shouldn't be able to have a gun now.  That was more of where I was going with that.

 

EDIT:  You also haven't spent as much time in seedy bars I guess because I can certainly think of a few times I have seen it.

Edited November 10, 2017 by TheGreatBuzz

[TradeTheBeal!]

Whataboutism and goalpost moving at a very high level.

[LadySkinsFan]

22 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well you have more restraint than the vast majority of the population, I believe.  Can you admit that you are more than likely in the small minority of you actually can have this self control?

 

I know that most of my friends, who are women, would do the same as me. 

 

You forget, women are trained to be non violent, to be submissive. That doesn't mean we won't say something, but since most men are bigger than us, we don't go out of our way to incite more violence. This doesn't matter what sexual orientation.

 

 

Why does a person deserve to get hit? 

 

I'm going to suggest get some use of legal deadly force training. Everyone should have this training in middle school. Teach people to think before acting, and the legal consequences.

Edited November 10, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Whataboutism and goalpost moving at a very high level.

No my goal post is the same.  I am just trying to use different examples to make my point.  

3 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

I know that most of my friends, who are women, would do the same as me. 

 

You forget, women are trained to be non violent, to be submissive. That doesn't mean we won't say something, but since most men are bigger than us, we don't go out of our way to incite more violence. This doesn't matter what sexual orientation.

Ha!  I guess we just spend time with different crowds.  I would describe my experience more as "if he deserves it, slap the **** out of him, don't just take it because you're a woman!"  But also that a man doesn't hit a women unless his life is no **** in danger.  In fact, I would say that women feel a little safer hitting a man, at least once, because they think they are less likely to get hit back.  I also grew up in a house where my mom was definitely the Alpha.  Maybe that jaded my opinion.  

 

Anyways, my main point was that I don't think a person who, in a fit of justifiable rage, were to hit another person and then get convicted of a minor assault type of charge, should never be allowed to have a gun.  I'm sorry if you didn't like my made up scenerio's used to illustrate that point @TryTheBeal!

[grego]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

But why react with violence? I can see if someone is attacking to cause great harm, one can use equal force to repel an attack. That's not what I am referring to. But to punch someone out, to instinctively react with violence? 

 

We must learn to be better. It's not being soft, it's not overreacting, it's learning to control ourselves.

 

i actually agree with you here. i'm 100% anti violence, basically, unless youre being attacked.  

[twa]

4 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

 

 

You forget, women are trained to be non violent, to be submissive.

 

The women in my family will slap, punch,stab and shoot.....they musta skipped that class. 

 

I've seen many a guy slapped or worse beal, my daughter about killed a guy once.

[Kosher Ham]

The women are trained? Come on. Women create more violence than anyone else in daily life. Excluding wars. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

8 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Women create more violence than anyone else in daily life. Excluding wars. 

How do you mean cause in my experience, that's not what I would expect the statistics to bear.

[LadySkinsFan]

8 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

The women are trained? Come on. Women create more violence than anyone else in daily life. Excluding wars. 

 

What, you mean they're asking for it? 

 

You need to explain that statement, that women create more violence than anyone else.