2016 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Going Commando]

Jared Goff looks like Nick Foles did at Arizona. Tall and lanky. Similar movement ability and awkward, splayed out, heel-to-toe stride when he runs. Spends all his time in the shotgun executing a quick rhythm passing game like Foles did. His arm is strong enough to throw the deep out and he does a good job placing his throws for the most part. And he usually stands tall in the pocket against the rush but he does seem a little panicky doesn't he? Also, his recognition of coverages needs some work. He doesn't typically put the ball up for grabs, but he will hang a receiver out to dry by forcing throws.

I'm as intrigued by him as I am with Hackenberg. I'm not blown away, just like I wasn't blown away by Foles. But I did like Foles outside the first round, and I could see myself settling on that position for Goff. So far I like what I see and I'll be watching him when I can this season in order to see more.

[CommandB11]

Jared Goff looks like Nick Foles did at Arizona. Tall and lanky. Similar movement ability and awkward, splayed out, heel-to-toe stride when he runs. Spends all his time in the shotgun executing a quick rhythm passing game like Foles did. His arm is strong enough to throw the deep out and he does a good job placing his throws for the most part. And he usually stands tall in the pocket against the rush but he does seem a little panicky doesn't he? Also, his recognition of coverages needs some work. He doesn't typically put the ball up for grabs, but he will hang a receiver out to dry by forcing throws.

I'm as intrigued by him as I am with Hackenberg. I'm not blown away, just like I wasn't blown away by Foles. But I did like Foles outside the first round, and I could see myself settling on that position for Goff. So far I like what I see and I'll be watching him when I can this season in order to see more.

I'm personally starting to favor Kessler. I never like USC QBs but he looks the part to me.

[RemoveSnyder]

Jared Goff  ...

 

he will hang a receiver out to dry by forcing throws.

 

Noticed that too. I think it was the Northwestern tape.

 

awkward

 

I think the words I used were spindly and woolly. 

[Laron Burgundy]

If Cousins fails, or just isn't good enough to re-sign, I think its pretty realistic to expect us to hang on to McCoy while we groom a young QB for a few games or a season. That's if we keep Gruden, which I think is not very likely. If we get rid of Gruden, then all bets are off and I don't think a single QB on this roster is here next year. McCoy is Gruden's Grossman.

 

Gruden going in to year 3 with McCoy as the starter is a death knell.  It's almost guaranteed he wouldn't see year 4 then, that's if he survives year 2.  Maybe we keep McCoy, but we might as well fire Gruden this offseason if McCoy is the plan imo.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I love Jalen Ramsey.  Big, physical corner.  He has played some safety as well.  I expect CB to be high on our board next year.

 

Who do people have on their FS radar?  I like the Jalen Mills kid out of LSU, but I wonder if this might be another weak position for this draft.

[nemocystem]

To the post above:

Su'a Cravens is my guy. Ramsey is a close second (he's a FS at the next level, period.).

Really...unless KC is bludgeoned to death, & McCoy loses an arm, & we wind up with the #1 pick, i would much prefer to take a QB later (looking at Kessler), & get either of the 2 FS, Bosa/Oakman, or A'Shawn Robinson.

I'm gonna beat this drum to death this year, but i almost feel like drafting a QB early is an utter, & complete waste unless your absolutely convinced that he's a generational talent.

[Laron Burgundy]

I'm personally starting to favor Kessler. I never like USC QBs but he looks the part to me.

 

Kessler has a slower release than what I remembered.  A bit of a windup on it.  His ball placement is fantastic within 15 yards though.  He does hold the ball pretty long at times, that USC line is incredible, but he does look okay versus pressure when he does see it.  He really did seem to limit his turnovers.  He is one guy that would be perfect for a WCO potentially, but his windup and height could lead to more batted balls than you'd like (already see it some in college) and you kind of have to gamble on how he'll play with much less time in the pocket on average.

[Laron Burgundy]

I don't think you can go wrong with the early db's in this draft.  Ramsey, Hargreaves, Sutton, Fuller and Cravens are all better than any db last year.  Hargreaves has Revis-type potential and is the top guy imo, but the other ones should all be great starters.  I'm high on Jeremy Cash too, had him as better than Collins last year had he come out.  Overall a great DB group at the top end.

 

Cravens is supposedly moving to OLB, and will probably be a tweener like Shaq come draft time.  He's got elite body control and I think he might end up the best safety prospect since at least Berry, if not Taylor.  Sent as a blitzer he is lightning quick at the snap.  Probably the best blitzing safety I've ever seen.  Very fluid, light feet.  And he absolutely crushes runningbacks or wr who try to block him, very physical at the point of attack.

 

Jamal Golden is a late round FS prospect to keep an eye on.

[kost203]

If Cousins fails, or just isn't good enough to re-sign, I think its pretty realistic to expect us to hang on to McCoy while we groom a young QB for a few games or a season. That's if we keep Gruden, which I think is not very likely. If we get rid of Gruden, then all bets are off and I don't think a single QB on this roster is here next year. McCoy is Gruden's Grossman.

now if we do get rid of gruden does that mean scott is gone as well? are they not buddies?  I think there are so many holes to fix that unless kurk  steps it up or we luck into a sure qb in the draft, we should start to rebuild and stop with these patches!

Jared Goff looks like Nick Foles did at Arizona. Tall and lanky. Similar movement ability and awkward, splayed out, heel-to-toe stride when he runs. Spends all his time in the shotgun executing a quick rhythm passing game like Foles did. His arm is strong enough to throw the deep out and he does a good job placing his throws for the most part. And he usually stands tall in the pocket against the rush but he does seem a little panicky doesn't he? Also, his recognition of coverages needs some work. He doesn't typically put the ball up for grabs, but he will hang a receiver out to dry by forcing throws.

I'm as intrigued by him as I am with Hackenberg. I'm not blown away, just like I wasn't blown away by Foles. But I did like Foles outside the first round, and I could see myself settling on that position for Goff. So far I like what I see and I'll be watching him when I can this season in order to see more.

what scares me about goff is that he plays in the spread offense. sorry but been there with Robert and he was smart. the spread qb's haven't proven anything in the nfl as someone reinforced my statement.  Forgot whom but I couldn't think of one that actually did good in the nfl and they mentioned drew brees. so 1 out of what? 100? tough call on qb regardless

[wilco_holland]

No if Gruden is gone Scot stays.

Scot didnt choose his own HC nor his own QB. Right now he is working with what we got. The next months Gruden needs to show Scot that he is the HC for this team long term and can develop a QB.

If Gruden does well we have found a long term QB and HC. If not we start over.

I dont really see Scot keeping Gruden if we have a handfull of wins and Kirk looks terrible. Because you then have new QB with old coach. If then coach keeps losing you need to find a new coach. That new coach probally want to hand pick his own QB...so yeah you then keep messing up.

So if we draft a QB. It will be a new HC. My bet would be Pep Hamilton or David Shaw and then one of the two pac 12 QB's. Kessler or Goff, because then probally scouted them in HS and college. Know these guys inside out.

And I love the safety class next year! A lot of them also fit Scot his profile of good hitters. Not afraid to come in and tackle.

[Going Commando]

Noticed that too. I think it was the Northwestern tape.

Yeah that's where I saw it. It looked like simple stuff like not seeing the DB in zone coverage in the flat, or not diagnosing the coverage of the safety. I'm not expecting a 19 year old sophomore to be an expert at reading coverages and to get it right all the time. I only point it out as an area where he needs work. Who knows? It could have just been that one game too. I need to see more of him to develop a better feel for his playing style.

 

 

I think the words I used were spindly and woolly.

Those are great words that you just don't get the opportunity to use much. His running form really is that poor. But I do think he manages to avoid pressure at the college level pretty well in spite of that. And like I said before, Nick Foles looked awful when he ran too.

[Going Commando]

now if we do get rid of gruden does that mean scott is gone as well? are they not buddies?  I think there are so many holes to fix that unless kurk  steps it up or we luck into a sure qb in the draft, we should start to rebuild and stop with these patches!

A rebuild doesn't start until you bring in a coach and quarterback together.

what scares me about goff is that he plays in the spread offense. sorry but been there with Robert and he was smart. the spread qb's haven't proven anything in the nfl as someone reinforced my statement.  Forgot whom but I couldn't think of one that actually did good in the nfl and they mentioned drew brees. so 1 out of what? 100? tough call on qb regardless

I think this fear has always been overstated. I would actually suspect that shotgun spread QBs don't bust at rates any greater than QBs that play under center in college. No college QB is making NFL reads and throwing NFL routes against NFL coverage. All of them have to make a huge adjustment upon reaching the NFL, learn to see the whole field, learn to play against NFL speed, learn to diagnose the DBs, etc. And if we looking at NFL QBs, we see that studs like Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger have been playing in shotgun spread offenses for years.

For college QBs who operate in shotgun, the challenge is whether can they master the footwork of a drop back passing game. But playing in the gun in college certainly doesn't mean they can't. Cam Newton played in a shotgun spread that ran more than he threw at Auburn. When he was a rookie his footwork on his drops already looked good. It's just another skill they have to master.

[SkinsHokieFan]

For college QBs who operate in shotgun, the challenge is whether can they master the footwork of a drop back passing game. But playing in the gun in college certainly doesn't mean they can't. Cam Newton played in a shotgun spread that ran more than he threw at Auburn. When he was a rookie his footwork on his drops already looked good. It's just another skill they have to master.

 

To add to that, from 7th grade on up now QBs are in a pistol/spread offense.

 

You go to any high school game now and it isn't under center wish bone run the ball all the time O that HS used to be.

 

Kids are in a pistol spread O, they might take 3-5 snaps under center their entire career, and continue with this type of pistol spread O, with hurry up and simple reads, in college.

 

How many true "pro style" offenses are now run in college football? 

[Going Commando]

Gruden going in to year 3 with McCoy as the starter is a death knell.  It's almost guaranteed he wouldn't see year 4 then, that's if he survives year 2.  Maybe we keep McCoy, but we might as well fire Gruden this offseason if McCoy is the plan imo.

If Cousins flops, Gruden needs to be fired. There is zero chance he'd survive long enough to develop a 2016 drafted QB. So keeping him would lead to one of two awful outcomes:

1.) The drafting and immediate discarding of a 2016 prospect upon the hiring of the next coach. Meaning we'd be spending an early draft pick on a QB within two years of each other. Believe it or not, this outcome is actually vastly preferable to the second, which is:

2.) Repeating the RGIII situation. Drafting a QB early in the third offseason of a lame duck coach, handcuffing the next coach to the guy, and having a long, painful development process fail and ruin that coaching tenure too. This would cost us like five years as a team, waste the careers of all of the good picks we managed to get right, and probably get McCloughan fired in the process. This would be an utter debacle that just might drive most of what's left of the fan base out the door.

So unless Kirk comes in and solidifies himself as the starting QB, such that we won't draft one this offseason, then Gruden needs to be fired.

And before anyone claims that there is a third outcome: we get lucky and nail the pick and the rookie QB immediately establishes himself as a franchise QB and Gruden enjoys a decade of success here as a result, that's exactly what we thought happened with RGIII in 2012.

No recent coaching regime has survived NOT getting their long term QB in their first offseason. None. It would be unprecedented if that happened for Gruden. The guy is doomed unless a QB already on the roster today saves him.

[Going Commando]

Really...unless KC is bludgeoned to death, & McCoy loses an arm, & we wind up with the #1 pick, i would much prefer to take a QB later (looking at Kessler), & get either of the 2 FS, Bosa/Oakman, or A'Shawn Robinson.

I'm kind of leaning that way too. If you get the #1 pick this year, the defensive talent is good enough, and the gap between QB #1 and QB #4 is small enough, that you could do well going elite prospect in the first, QB in the second. I think it was LaRonBurgundy who pointed out that the 49ers and Bengals both benefited a lot from doing that with Dalton and Kaepernick. It's still extremely early, but I think this class is going to have quality QB prospects available at the beginning of the second round.

I'm gonna beat this drum to death this year, but i almost feel like drafting a QB early is an utter, & complete waste unless your absolutely convinced that he's a generational talent.

But I disagree with this. Spending an early draft pick on a first round caliber QB is the cost of doing business IMO. If a QB is good enough to go in the fist, then he's good enough to provide value if taken in the top five. Think of it as buying the lot you want to build a new house on. It's expensive and it kind of sucks having to spend a ton of your budget on an empty plot of land. But you can't start building your house until you've purchased it.

And unless there are major flaws in that land making it unworkable (terrain that's much more expensive to build on than you thought, no water source or access to utilities, or land that isn't even zoned for building)

then any lot that is workable is going to be worth buying to build on.

The end goal is to build the house to live in, not wait forever for the perfect piece of land to become available.

[Going Commando]

How many true "pro style" offenses are now run in college football?

Well Hackenberg and Cook are the two most prominent ones in this year's class. Hackenberg played for an NFL coach as a freshman and Michigan State has a run-heavy offense with the QB set up behind center on first and second down. Presumably Cook has a good handle on the footwork of a drop back passing game as a result.

The thing is, most of the top programs that can draw in the blue chip QBs don't run traditional run dominant offenses where the QB plays from behind center. So it's creating a funneling effect of a lot of the potential NFL caliber arm and athletic talent away from those programs. Most of these prospects are going to want to go lead programs where they get to throw as much as possible. Unless a collegiate program with a run dominant offense has some sort of special draw--prestige and NFL pedigree like Alabama or USC for example--then they are probably going to have a hard time getting blue chip QBs to commit.

Also... there is speculation that paying top QB recruits is expensive and risky and that the high profile power teams like Alabama don't do it because they're already under a microscope.

[Laron Burgundy]

I'm kind of leaning that way too. If you get the #1 pick this year, the defensive talent is good enough, and the gap between QB #1 and QB #4 is small enough, that you could do well going elite prospect in the first, QB in the second. I think it was LaRonBurgundy who pointed out that the 49ers and Bengals both benefited a lot from doing that with Dalton and Kaepernick. It's still extremely early, but I think this class is going to have quality QB prospects available at the beginning of the second round.

But I disagree with this. Spending an early draft pick on a first round caliber QB is the cost of doing business IMO. If a QB is good enough to go in the fist, then he's good enough to provide value if taken in the top five. Think of it as buying the lot you want to build a new house on. It's expensive and it kind of sucks having to spend a ton of your budget on an empty plot of land. But you can't start building your house until you've purchased it.

I think the darkhorse option is McC firing Gruden and keeping griffin to give one more shot under a new coach. If it fails horribly, you have an early pick to draft a qb for year 2 of the new regime and no further commitment to rg3. That option probably completely depends on the amount of goodwill left for rg3 on the team.

Although not likely, it allows another draft of further boosting the surrounding cast to aid a qb's transition. Loads of ol talent in this next draft along with defenders. For the last decade I can only think of 2 qb's, Matt Ryan and Andrew Luck, who had early success and weren't coddled early in their careers by a talented surrounding cast. Roethlisberger, rivers, eli, flacco, dalton, kaep, wilson, and most recently Bridgewater all had strong running games and a good defense for them to depend on while they progressed. I think it's the most reliable way of developing a qb, certainly there are failures in this route (most notably sanchez) but successful qb's who were picked at the start of a rebuild are more the exception than the norm.

[Going Commando]

I wouldn't want to do that. If Gruden gets fired, then I want the new coach to be able to pick his QB. He deserves to get to choose the QB he'll be married to. Doesn't necessarily have to be a drafted QB mind you, as it can be done via trade and free agency. Those two branches are unlikely to bear fruit though. Few QBs that already established themselves as healthy and starting caliber become available.

But every successful regime establishes a firm marriage between HC and QB in the first offseason. So if you don't like this QB class, then I'd be rooting for Gruden to make it at least one more year.

My own hope is that either Kirk comes in and kills it and everyone is saved, or that I'm going to really like a couple of these QB prospects in this draft.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Way too early to diagnose needs ... we have a whole season + a FA cycle to go through. But my "post 2015 off-season needs list" would go as follows: QB, WR1, TE, FS, ILB, CB, DL, C

 

I think you have to invest in the OL every year, even if it's a mid-round pick. We invested in a RG and LG to go on top of 2014's investments at RT and LG ... so I think we have decent depth on the OL, but will need an OC. We neglected the DL in 2015 because of the off-season haul, but I imagine we go back to the youth well after this year, particularly with Hatcher and Knighton likely gone. 

 

1st: WR/QB

2nd: QB/WR

3rd: FS

4th: DL

5th: TE
5th: OC

7th: CB

7th: CB

 

Can't fix all the holes, but can continue to build. I can't imagine we have a scenario where our first two picks next year aren't QB/WR ... with a new head coach, that tends to be the combo coming in. Plus Jackson likely gone, as well as Garcon ... so we'll need a new WR1. Might actually be better off going WR in the 1st and QB in the 2nd.

[Jumbo]

Steve---you can post it a thousand times (and are close already) but my call is Gruden's not going to be fired based on Kirk's performance except under every specific and close-to-extreme conditions.  

 

But this post is really just another thanks to all you guys who bring all these names and all this information to members' attention.

 

And I know there are a few in here who aren't keen on me at all and will roll their eyes and I'm fine with that and it doesn't impede my appreciation of course. 

 

As I've mentioned before, growing up in AK when I did I really had no connection to college ball--no rivalries or history of inter-school/state connections. And then, developing little interest in other than pro ball, I just have watched the random games (or somewhat followed the UW Huskies at times) and random news on such over the years.

 

I don't post much in these threads because I consider my comparative ignorance on college ball too vast   and I actually let such awareness affect what I post in any matter. 

 

So I enjoy reading much of the stuff (like other threads, it varies from poster to poster) and while I know you guys do this for your own pleasures, it's a good resource even if just for all the names/material it provides that can be explored.

[Going Commando]

Jumbo, where would you place the line of extreme?

Or put another way, what bar do you think Gruden has to reach to not be fired?

I think he has to have a surprisingly successful season where we feel like real progress has been made. Something like: Kirk starts every game that he's healthy and we win like 7 games.

If we only win four or five games and experience complete turmoil at the QB position all season, what is Gruden going to have to protect him at that point? What will be the argument for keeping him? That's not just a rhetorical question, I honestly can't think of a good reason under those circumstances.

[Jumbo]

steve--maybe some other time--i actually have posted about it more than few times but nor super repeatedly---but i honestly think you're smart enough (zero snark) all on your own to just create your own answer/scenarios that would fit what i'm saying if you detach...don't want to do OT--esp. rg3/gruden-- here either--but pm me down the road if you like.

 

play some version of devil's advocate with yourself on it. partly related to my claims (for a long time--and that's all they are) the jay is more "in" here than many like to think (primarily rg3first fans) and also more in tune with scot and vice versa--i have been saying this stuff...barry will actually be a bigger test on jay's cred with fo than kirk, but it's not a claim without exceptions (re: kirk). i have faith in your intelligence, even if i don't generate much in mine. 

 

have thot about posting a longer detailed deal on jay at large but given the ocd thread and state of the board and choosing other ways to spend what time i have here, i kept putting it and some other stuff like it off--may never get there-

 

sorry for the rushed look/feel to this, am rushed es-wise on & off the board and now real work's going nuts (no pun intended)

[Laron Burgundy]

I wouldn't want to do that. If Gruden gets fired, then I want the new coach to be able to pick his QB. He deserves to get to choose the QB he'll be married to. Doesn't necessarily have to be a drafted QB mind you, as it can be done via trade and free agency. Those two branches are unlikely to bear fruit though. Few QBs that already established themselves as healthy and starting caliber become available.

But every successful regime establishes a firm marriage between HC and QB in the first offseason. So if you don't like this QB class, then I'd be rooting for Gruden to make it at least one more year.

My own hope is that either Kirk comes in and kills it and everyone is saved, or that I'm going to really like a couple of these QB prospects in this draft.

 

There are notable exceptions to that.  Harbaugh in SF, Dungy inheriting Manning, Carroll in Seattle, etc.

 

I would be more curious what Scot's take on it is.  His hire seemed to push Gruden towards an allegiance to RG3, and Scot as much affirmed you don't give up on a young qb, and the 5th year option could be a coy way of insuring RG3 has one final year under the coach of Scot's choosing.

 

I don't particularly see that as likely though, as I can only imagine one scenario where that might be reasonable.  Certainly the cleanest way would be getting a new qb or having kirk succeed though.

[Laron Burgundy]

Jumbo, where would you place the line of extreme?

Or put another way, what bar do you think Gruden has to reach to not be fired?

I think he has to have a surprisingly successful season where we feel like real progress has been made. Something like: Kirk starts every game that he's healthy and we win like 7 games.

If we only win four or five games and experience complete turmoil at the QB position all season, what is Gruden going to have to protect him at that point? What will be the argument for keeping him? That's not just a rhetorical question, I honestly can't think of a good reason under those circumstances.

 

I'm more along that line of thinking.  I don't want to go too OT, actually had a lengthy post written up about it, but I'll just say it is at least very peculiar that we didn't bring in a single qb in the offseason.  Every single other team with qb questions brought in competition.  Either a) Scot is hanging Gruden out to dry or Gruden and Scot were confident we could win with the qb's we have.

[RemoveSnyder]

Michigan unis look sharp.