DogofWar1 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 You miss that he tried taking her by the arm and shoulder before her pulling away and elbow striking the officer ... slinging her away is what got him....no real justification for that. The grabbing of the arm was part of the move where he moved his left arm down across her body to grab her legs, which the ill advised choke-hold was seemingly a part of. Moreover, there was no elbow strike by her. The officer pulls her arm out to the left, and he then reaches across her body with his left arm. Her arm, partially obscurred, appears to fall, and there is definitely no clear elbow strike. Moreover, none of the stories on major news sites discuss an elbow strike. They talk about the strike from her right hand, which was with the hand, not the elbow, but no mention of elbow is there. I searched google specifically for "elbow" with a few other terms related to the incident (Ben Fields "elbow", girl classroom officer "elbow", etc.). The two mentions of an elbow strike are from a comment section on an article (the article you posted a day back about a 3rd video, but not in the article itself), and a forum posting on a politics forum which has a youtube video defending the officer and speculating that she elbowed him, but nothing beyond speculation to back it up. So there's no elbow strike to justify the actions after that, and the strike by the girl after the choke-hold is not the 2nd strike, it was the first, in response to the choke-hold. And if by slinging her away you mean flipping the desk and then dragging her from it, yes, we agree that's what got him. The choke-hold, though ill advised, was something that could have been rectified. Him going farther got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 how long did this alleged choke hold last? controlling the head is not a choke hold. The news hasn't reported a elbow strike prior to him going for the head? ....Is that surprising to you? they need clicks, the details are only relevant later.....just as countless other times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The news hasn't reported a elbow strike prior to him going for the head? ....Is that surprising to you? they need clicks, the details are only relevant later.....just as countless other times Right, you mean like the detail of her striking him that came out a little over a day ago and got plastered everywhere, but wasn't this phantom elbow strike? You're implying the media is in the bag for the girl. If that was true, her strike of him wouldn't have generated new stories. An elbow strike would have been mentioned alongside or as another story. You think giving the pro-officer side what they wanted wouldn't generate clicks? Heck, even the websites trying to defend the cop haven't put up stories about elbow crotch shots. They didn't report on it because there's no evidence it happened. Moreover, even if it did happen, and no one reported on it (extremely unlikely), the internal affairs people would have heard about it, and they still concluded he violated policy and fired him. So if an elbow strike actually happened, it works against your viewpoint, since that means even 2 strikes against the cop wasn't enough to move up the use-of-force continuum, which suggests that moving up the use of force continuum is not only harder to do than you've been painting, but even harder than I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 he was fired for using a unapproved method ,not violating use of force continuum once the dust settles and the evidence is presented in full get back to me. who said crotch shot?...looked belt region and clearly beyond passive resistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Unapproved method, which is outside the appropriate level of force. And are you suggesting internal affairs ignored facts and fired him without the full story? Because presumably they would have the full story. And they still fired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Unapproved method, which is outside the appropriate level of force. And are you suggesting internal affairs ignored facts and fired him without the full story? Because presumably they would have the full story. And they still fired him. that fact doesn't justify unapproved action/method....it does justify physically removing her with force He was fired because they had a excuse if he wouldn't have slung her across the floor AFTER taking her down he would not have been fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Are you suggesting wrongful termination ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Lot of bad things. 1. Child should be suspended and never allowed back in this school. 2. It is unfortunate that the parent cannot get in trouble. Someone said above that they would be livid that some cop laid hands on their child. I would be livid that any child of mine showed that much disrespect towards aurhtority. This was not like some of the issues pointed out in this thread. This kid learned disrepect from their parents and the parent showed be ashamed, but instead they are angry at the cops, want their check, and have learned nothing from the incident. 3. I would be pissed if I were a taxpayer becuase this disrepecting family is going to get a check. 4. The school system failed because they had to call the police in to handle a bad student that they were unable too. 5. The cop should have de-escalated the situation (yes easy to say typing from a distance), stepped back and found a different way of handling the situation. He did not himself have to lay a hand on her at that instance. Step back, call for others, clear the class room, tell the parent to get to school and get the kid, get lots of recordings explaining everything to the kid, and use force with mulitpe cops after all procedures and such have been followed. He just lost his cool and now he lost his job. 6. I disagreed with the firing. Thought the department caved in, but sometimes you have to cut your losses from a civil liability standpoint. And, IA didn't fire him, the boss did. Assuming this cop did not have any prior offenses and such (that would matter if this was a pattern), this to me should not constitute a firing. Not saying excessive force was not used as explained by others, but discipline him, take him out of the school, and such. Edited October 30, 2015 by Fred Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Are you suggesting wrongful termination ? being fired for using unapproved method is probably legal, depends on the contract I think they would rather fire him now and deal with that later....not like it comes out of their pocket. there is a difference between legal and proper....for both parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They fired him after the completion of the internal affairs investigation. That's about as proper as it can get, and they certainly didn't have an "excuse" to fire him, they had good reason to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They fired him after the completion of the internal affairs investigation. That's about as proper as it can get, and they certainly didn't have an "excuse" to fire him, they had good reason to. And he had a good reason to unseat the 'child' ....and a legal one. Proper is open to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 And he had a good reason to unseat the 'child' ....and a legal one. Proper is open to interpretation. Good reason and legal to a point. Methodology matters, and from a police protocol perspective he screwed up. With regards to the civil rights investigation and suit from the girl, we'll see. What would they need to do to make the firing "proper" under your standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I could care less about the firing, I'm not a fan of police enforcing school rules we will indeed see on the other,talk is cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I agree with TWA that this arrest doesn't look all that outside of the norm. This is the system working as intended, not just a bad cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I agree with TWA that this arrest doesn't look all that outside of the norm. This is the system working as intended, not just a bad cop. and carries the approval of both the teacher and VP that called him in, both before and after.....and students I wouldn't call him bad, it is a ****ty job and situation though. shoulda took the ,I tried, then coffee and donut route....that would pass it off. your federal funds in action cop fired for violating policy while enforcing policy....almost poetic cluster****. remember when cops enforced laws and the military wasn't peacekeepers?......now get off my lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Bottom line. No matter who you are, if it was your kid, you'd be spitting nails. And if you say you would not, you are a liar. well, maybe "liar' is strong.. how about "person with an unrealistic view of themselves due to living too long within the vapors of their own ass" ~Bang Mad about what? The kid being a ass? The school calling the cops? The officer taking her down? The waste of resources and time? (not my time since I enjoy these distractions obviously ) That they didn't call me? Clarify please. Ya can ask my kids how I would react .....not a doubt in their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I agree with TWA that this arrest doesn't look all that outside of the norm. This is the system working as intended, not just a bad cop. I think everyone agrees that the girl deserves some penalty for instigating the whole thing, punishments discussed have run from in-school suspension to expulsion. But do you really feel that the level of force he used is the system working as intended? I mean, how many thousands of school resource officers are there in the US? There are some bad eggs, but the vast and overwhelming majority seem to be able to enforce school policies, laws, and protect students while not flipping desks and dragging people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I mean, how many thousands of school resource officers are there in the US? There are some bad eggs, but the vast and overwhelming majority seem to be able to enforce school policies, laws, and protect students while not flipping desks and dragging people.My middle-school resource officer was a good dude. Took me out during lunch one time to show me the M16 in the trunk of his squad car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The one at my high school was a good guy too. Even had a whole page in the yearbook dedicated to how much we liked him. He really just kept an eye on the parking lot, making sure no shenanigans were going on, and I never heard a peep about him even getting loud with anyone. But back then, we were fairly respectful of our elders in authority positions. A lot of parents nowadays have become their childrens' "friends", and have abandoned the "authority" part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The one at the school where mom taught was a retired cop who had the license plate "WAS FUZ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The one at the school where mom taught was a retired cop who had the license plate "WAS FUZ".Was fuz, now sow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) We never had any police officers or security officers in any of my schools. Went public school in Waldorf, MD. Edited October 30, 2015 by pjfootballer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 In the same vein as the SC situation: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11964823/Moment-Oklahoma-city-police-officer-punches-student-in-the-face.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 In the same vein as the SC situation: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11964823/Moment-Oklahoma-city-police-officer-punches-student-in-the-face.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook glad they actually charged him with a crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think everyone agrees that the girl deserves some penalty for instigating the whole thing, punishments discussed have run from in-school suspension to expulsion. But do you really feel that the level of force he used is the system working as intended? I mean, how many thousands of school resource officers are there in the US? There are some bad eggs, but the vast and overwhelming majority seem to be able to enforce school policies, laws, and protect students while not flipping desks and dragging people. Of all the incidents where a police officer has used excessive force, how many do you imagine are caught on video that is made available to the public? For every one we see how many more are happening which never become more than a filed complaint some police supervisor barely glances at before determining the officer was in the right? Yes I think this is the system working as intended, I think police officers are operating under a rule book and training that allows them to react to disobedience and disrespect with shocking level of violence. This applies even when they are never threatened and the situation prior to their arrival is not violent. This cop was fired because of public outrage and bad PR. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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