twa Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I would suggest he simply give verbal commands at a safe distance and if rebuffed to say "well I tried" and go to the break room for donuts and coffee. call in SWAT or animal control if ya need it Mrs vice-principal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) what does your chart say after giving verbal commands is ignored? wait them out? ....call in pizza? the officer then moves to physically move the student, who if at that time strikes the officer .....chart says? If you clicked the link instead of just being a snarky defender of roided up assholes, you'd have noticed there are two levels of empty hand control, soft technique and hard technique. He went straight for hard technique, and skipped right over soft technique. And no, he does not get to skip over soft technique because she weakly slapped at his arm when he WENT FOR HER NECK. He could have easily subdued her with continuing soft technique, instead of going to the ONE NIGHT ONLY BODY SLAM ROID RAGE COP MAN plan. You don't choke-hold somebody unless you're trying to legitimately choke them out. Hence the name "choke-hold." There's a reason the NYPD banned the things (which some of their cops promptly ignored, but still). Start under her arms. Full Nelson MINUS pushing down on the back of the head would be effective. Just pick her right up from behind, and if her arms are constrained, she can at best weakly flail without any real leverage to injure him, and he gets the added bonus of not becoming a nationally known piece of garbage for chokeslamming a 15 year old. I certainly agree he should have backed off and tased her....a 'child' that behaves in such a manner probably needs a tranquilizer dart Ah yes, let's skip EVEN MORE steps up the use of force continuum. Because skipping up to hard technique and flipping her desk wasn't enough. Why not just shoot her? If we're fine skipping 1 or 2-3 steps up the continuum, why not skip all the way to the top? I'm sure if she got shot after that weak little flail when he put her in the choke-hold, you'd be defending her getting shot too. in the first second of the vid she clearly strikes the officer BEFORE he went to control the head Um, take off whatever colored glasses you've got and try again. Maybe play it at 0.25X speed. As the video starts, he's pulled her left arm out to assist him in getting his arm down across her body. He them simultaneously wraps his right arm around her neck, and puts his left arm down across her body to grab her leg. She, in response, grabs his right arm with her right hand after he's established the hold. So you're wrong. At this point, she hasn't struck him AND he's got her head. Next, he lifts straight up, which fails, because duh, the desk is designed to have students exit from the side. She, as she's being lifted straight up, THEN strikes the officer. He then flips the desk, and proceeds with the drag and such. Edited October 28, 2015 by DogofWar1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) I can't believe the amount of people that believe this cop is justified in his actions. Their defense is always something like "Oh, I guess after he asks her to get up, he should have just called it a day and left!" Ridiculous. There is obviously some middle ground that officer could have taken. By all accounts, the officer was a pretty strong dude. She is a adolescent girl. You don't think he could have apprehended her with a little less excessive force? You don't think he could have subdued her in a less berserking way? There was absolutely no need for that ****. Just by looking at the (lack of) reaction from the other classmates, you can tell this dude has a rep for being a dick. sadly, I can believe it If that guy was anything other than a cop and he did that to any woman, there would be no dissent on what should be done to the guy. A grown ass man assaulted a teenage girl and people are trying to justify it. Edited October 28, 2015 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 If a teenage girl swung at me I would laugh. Never been knocked out by a dude, why should I fear getting hit by a teenage girl. even if she did swing first, that does not justify his reaction as a coach and professional LEO. In that setting. Setting is the key to his pitiful reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Apparently we'll find out at noon what happens to him, press conference is supposed to be then. NBCNews is reporting that sources are saying he'll be fired, but I'm waiting for the conference for final confirmation one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 sadly, I can believe it If that guy was anything other than a cop and he did that to any woman, there would be no dissent on what should be done to the guy. A grown ass man assaulted a teenage girl and people are trying to justify it. I suspect that you and I have different opinions as to how far some ES posters will stretch themselves, when there's an agenda involved. I'm pretty confident that if this case involved a mouthy teen, and a concealed carry holder who pulled a gun and shot her, that there's at least one ES poster who would be working real hard to try to justify that action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I suspect ya'll are biased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The really the amazing part to me is the number of people here who ALWAYS jump to the conclusion that the cop was wrong and then blast anyone who dares to say they want to see the facts first. If it was unjustified, fire him and charge him. But if your position is that there is absolutely nothing that could have transpired before the cop ripped her out of the chair, well then it's YOU that has the unbending agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'd be Ok with him getting fired as long as she's expelled. Both were wrong in this situation. Make her parents pay for private school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I wont even go that far for her. I have NO IDEA what happened before that. If she was just mouthing off, that's not something I want to see a kid get expelled for doing. If she had a weapon or drugs though? Don't let the door hit you as your get choked out the front of the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 There is no increase in disrespect to authority. Nor is there any increase in excessive force by authority figures. Just a common technology that allows folks to record video conveniently and distribute it via the net. A quantum increase in evidence and information that leads to greater accountability. Some folks have a real problem with accountability, apparently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'd be Ok with him getting fired as long as she's expelled. Both were wrong in this situation. Make her parents pay for private school. we gonna expel every disruptive teenager? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) we gonna expel every disruptive teenager? Sorta. Gotta put them in prison first. That pipeline isn't going to sustain itself. EDIT: And he's out. Girl was a jerk, and soft empty hand technique was fine, but Fields went way beyond that as per Sheriff's statement and internal affairs report. Edited October 28, 2015 by DogofWar1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 ya know, kinda off topic from this particular case of the girl in school being slammed... but in general, I see some people always talk about how a situation could have been avoided if the person would have just cooperated with the cops. All I have to say is that, if you've never been in a situation where you feel like you've been targeted by police, and know you're done nothing wrong, and the entire situation is complete bull****, yet are told to lay face down on the ground....you have no idea how frustrating that can be. None. it's always easy to Monday morning QB the situation when watching a video on youtube, saying that the person should've simply complied with instructions. But when tempers are flaring, it's easier said than done to calm yourself when you've done nothing wrong and are being pressed out by some asshole cop for no good reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Good. Glad they investigated and took appropriate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 If you assault a student you should be fired. Good action taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Sheriff is getting the job done. Nice. Good to see. My kind of guy, just get the job done. He is eliminating the potential for even more problems. Basically stated that as a LEO, the officer broke protocol. Threw part of the blame on the student as well. Talked about respect, talked about education. 7 years at that school. School wanted him there. Basically, saying cop just screwed up, and fired himself. He had no reason to put his hands on her in that way, other methods should have been used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) we gonna expel every disruptive teenager?How about a lengthy suspension and send a tutor to her house for the rest of the quarter at the parents expense?And I'm not on the cops side at all. This type of aggression needs to stop. My original post was more about holding people accountable to their actions. Cop deserved to be fired. It was excessive. But she shouldn't get off scott free for her actions and the parents need to be responsible for her behavior. Edited October 28, 2015 by pjfootballer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 while i agree, PJ....we're talking about a 15 year old girl. a high school kid's level of accountability isn't nearly as high as an adult who is armed and charged with protecting the public. I sitll haven't heard the entire story, but I agree that, if she did have a hand in escalating the situation, she should be suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The student was arrested and is surely facing a lengthy suspension. That seems reasonable. As I understand it, her parents and grandparents have passed away and she is in foster care. That's pretty rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The student was arrested and is surely facing a lengthy suspension. That seems reasonable. As I understand it, her parents and grandparents have passed away and she is in foster care. That's pretty rough. Yeah, the kid was disruptive and action was necessary, and she definitely is going to face some serious action by the school, likely a suspension, though I think expulsion only exacerbates the issues she's facing at home. Ideally once everything has been resolved her punishment would take into account the difficulties she's facing. Of course, the officer went WAYYYY too far in his action, hence the firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I don't know man. Communication is the key. Her life situation may be partially on the fosters, may be on her as well. Chew at 15-16...you know right from wrong. You are aware of when you are antagonizing a situation. I knew when I was acting like an idiot in the wrong situation, it was a choice made. The play on it will be that she has some mental issues. I do wonder what in the hell the phone was so important for at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 The student was arrested and is surely facing a lengthy suspension. That seems reasonable. As I understand it, her parents and grandparents have passed away and she is in foster care. That's pretty rough. Even more reason for her to not be suspended. She has enough on her plate. Give her in school discipline and counseling. What do you think a 15 year old girl without supervision would do if she was suspended from school for the day? Go to the local public library and read independently? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I will add, either it was fear of the officer, or it was they thought she deserved it, that the students just sat there mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Chew at 15-16...you know right from wrong. You are aware of when you are antagonizing a situation. I knew when I was acting like an idiot in the wrong situation, it was a choice made. Eh, teenagers, in most situations might know what is reasonable and what's not, but there are gaps in that reasonableness. The brain continues developing well into legal adulthood, and isn't "fully" developed until around age 25. And that's without rough external factors heaped on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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