The Sisko Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I understand about the car being a weapon and all. I also get that windshields can do odd things to the trajectory of bullets. However if the independent autopsy is correct, I don't see how the car as a weapon story and being shot in the back square up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 more than likely shot from the side from the autopsy , easy enough to determine where a bullet entered a car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Interesting, have to see how this plays out. I think in fairness, the judge needs to move it out of Baltimore and get a new prosecutor. Just watching her initial grandstanding press conference showed that. As I said in a previous post, put all the evidence before a fair jury and let them decide. http://www.aol.com/article/2015/08/07/attorneys-say-prosecutors-hid-evidence-in-freddie-gray-case/21219877/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl6%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D-606851018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 more than likely shot from the side from the autopsy , easy enough to determine where a bullet entered a car From this story a private autopsy says he was shot in the back: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/ The officer fired twice, striking Hammond in the shoulder and torso. His death was classified as a homicide; an autopsy conducted by the Oconee County Coroner’s Office did not specify from which direction the bullets hit Hammond’s body. On Wednesday, Hammond’s family released the results of a private autopsy, which concluded that both bullets entered Hammond’s body from the back. According to the autopsy, the second bullet proved to be fatal, entering from the back of Hammond’s left side and passing through his chest, piercing his lungs and heart. I know sometimes things are blurry at the beginning and you could be right, but I'd be surprised to find out that this info is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 more likely incomplete ,bodies move much better than cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Not a good time to be a cop at all. After all of these incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I don't think the number of incidents has changed much. Phillip Stinson's work over the past decade or so highlights what's been going on. What has changed is that there are cameras everywhere nowadays making it more difficult for officers to get away with lying. SPD officer fired over tale about misplaced gunA veteran Seattle police officer with a checkered work history has been fired for dishonesty after he concocted a story that his misplaced gun and other items were stolen and then returned with the help of criminal figures. The officer, Ernest Hall, was terminated Monday by Police Chief Kathleen O’Toole, ending a 31-year career in which he repeatedly found himself in hot water, only to survive, in part, because of his deep connections in the department.... One deputy suspected in beating is fired, four others have resignedFive Marion County sheriff's deputies investigated in connection with the alleged beating of a drug suspect during an arrest in Marion Oaks last August no longer work for the department. One of them, Jesse Terrell, was fired on Monday. The other four — James Amidei, Trevor Fitzgerald, Adam Crawford and Cody Hoppel — submitted their resignations during the month of July. All five had been suspended without pay since MCSO supervisors reviewed a surveillance video showing the Aug. 7 arrest. Most of the letters of resignation consist of a single sentence. Crawford, however, wrote of the "love and good memories that my fellow brothers and sisters have given me throughout the years" and concluded with a Bible verse. Terrell's termination letter was the first time sheriff's officials publicly addressed the contents of the video. His termination was "based on allegations of misconduct and moral character violations as it relates to the arrest and complaint filed by Derrick Price on August 11, 2014 where excessive use of force is alleged," the letter states. "A surveillance video obtained by this agency depicts you, along with other officers, using what is considered to be unreasonable use of force during Price's arrest."... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/cops-filmed-behaving-badly-say-pot-shops-camera-illegally-recorded-raid/ "We tried to destroy evidence of our misconduct, so we had an expectation of privacy." SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 They shoulda went with the right not to incriminate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR2Drift Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) "A California police officer was suspended after video surfaced showing him unholster his gun while arguing with a man recording him in a small city north of San Francisco." http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/55c512bee4b0f73b20b975a5? Edited August 9, 2015 by MR2Drift 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 That was ridiculous. What was the purpose of drawing his gun? "If i thought you committed a crime, I would've arrested you by now." Then why is your gun drawn again? For ****s and giggles? I wonder what the criteria is to be a police officer. I assume you'd need to have a clean record to begin with, but I wonder what type of personalities they're looking for. As I've said once before, one of my best friends and my BIL both applied for many departments in the DC/MD/VA area, always made it through to the polygraph and were never accepted. Neither one of them have been arrested, done drugs or abused alcohol. What are they looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 That was ridiculous. What was the purpose of drawing his gun? "If i thought you committed a crime, I would've arrested you by now." Then why is your gun drawn again? For ****s and giggles? I think it was a pure intimidation tactic. He didn't like that the guy was recording him, but the guy wasn't acting aggressive or doing anything threatening. He had his hand in his pocket...so what? He wasn't being detained or even under the suspicion of a crime, and again he wasn't doing anything threatening. A gun should never ever be brandished by anyone...cop or civilian...unless there is a justifiable threat. A concealed carry civilian would probably be in jail right now for that (as well they should be). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I wonder what the criteria is to be a police officer. I assume you'd need to have a clean record to begin with, but I wonder what type of personalities they're looking for. Well, I guess it depends how one defines "clean" record. Many of the cops who've gotten in trouble recently were fired from previous law enforcement jobs in other counties/states. They have no criminal record, so they're "clean" with regard to criminal convictions, but less so with regard to workplace violations. Personally, someone fired from the police for misconduct would not be "clean" with regards to another police job, but that's just me. As for personality, I don't have objective data on it at this time, but I too have heard anecdotal stories of people being "overqualified" for police service. People who passed everything and were near if not at the top of candidate pools in terms of both intelligence and athletics being denied without further explanation. I know a few people in VA who ran into that, as for elsewhere, I am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I think it was a pure intimidation tactic. He didn't like that the guy was recording him, but the guy wasn't acting aggressive or doing anything threatening. He had his hand in his pocket...so what? He wasn't being detained or even under the suspicion of a crime, and again he wasn't doing anything threatening. A gun should never ever be brandished by anyone...cop or civilian...unless there is a justifiable threat. A concealed carry civilian would probably be in jail right now for that (as well they should be). a cop is fundamentally different than a CC person the +1 factor is in play the guy is a dick and acted like it, but ya'll have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Are you some kind of constitutionalist?" is a question the police officer asked. WTF does that even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Are you some kind of constitutionalist?" is a question the police officer asked. WTF does that even mean? "Look out! He's got a constitution!" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Look out! He's got a constitution!" Now it makes sense. The cop was afraid that he had a constitution in his pocket. The gun brandishing makes sense now. a cop is fundamentally different than a CC person the +1 factor is in play the guy is a dick and acted like it, but ya'll have fun I wasn't saying the cop should necessarily go to jail for that, as I know there are differences. I was just pointing out that nobody should brandish a gun unless the situation reasonably calls for it. And that situation did not call for it; brandishing a gun is a serious thing, no matter who does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 "Are you some kind of constitutionalist?" is a question the police officer asked. WTF does that even mean? ask some of the Libs, they seem to see those as a clear threat sovereign citizens and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 ask some of the Libs, they seem to see those as a clear threat sovereign citizens and such Sovereign Citizens aren't a threat because they like the constitution (even if they fundamentally misunderstand it). They are a threat because they have shown that some of them are unhinged zealots who ****ing shoot people they don't agree with. Sovereign Citizens are a completely different situation, and you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Sovereign Citizens aren't a threat because they like the constitution (even if they fundamentally misunderstand it). They are a threat because they have shown that some of them are unhinged zealots who ****ing shoot people they don't agree with. Sovereign Citizens are a completely different situation, and you know that. and the cop can tell by the sign on his forehead or aura? He obviously was odd, the cop probably didn't need to unholster his gun....but probably don't bring ya home at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) and the cop can tell by the sign on his forehead or aura? He obviously was odd, the cop probably didn't need to unholster his gun....but probably don't bring ya home at night. I have no problem with cops being careful and erring on the side of caution in many circumstances; I think they should since usually you're right...they don't know who they're up against or what their intentions are. But IMO this situation is different. The cop was the one that instigated it. The guy was standing there recording him. The cop got out, the cop approached him, the cop continued to aggressively follow him around with his weapon in his hand. Erring on the side of caution to me would mean staying closer to his car and being ready to draw if necessary while trying to ascertain the man's intentions, demeanor, and attitude. The cop's body language during the entire exchange screamed "intimidation" to me and he never truly seemed to be in fear for his safety. Edited August 9, 2015 by mistertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Let's also remember, the citizen began recording him because he kept driving by his house slowly. Enough times to warrant the citizen coming out on his driveway(still on his own property), and recording him. There has to be more to this story. Dude had to do something to get him this much attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) and the cop can tell by the sign on his forehead or aura? He obviously was odd, the cop probably didn't need to unholster his gun....but probably don't bring ya home at night. Police treating EVERYONE like a potential major threat is why we have way more shootings by police in this country than just about every other first world nation. http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-cops-kill-at-100-times-the-rate-of-other-capitalist-countries/5423183 It needs to stop. There is almost always a "grey" area with regard to "hypothetical" dangers. Friendliest old lady could be packing heat in her bra. That doesn't mean police pull guns on little old ladies when they roll up. Police in most other 1st world nations respond with force appropriate to the situation. Key word there is "respond." It goes back to the escalation issue, too often police escalate when they should be either maintaining and matching escalation or de-escalating. An officer pulling a gun on someone who has not shown themselves to be an immediate and significant threat is how you end up with dead citizens. Lots of them: http://www.killedbypolice.net/ By the end of August, police will likely have killed as many people as they did in the entirety of 2013. We're on pace for more than 1,100 deaths. Let's also remember, the citizen began recording him because he kept driving by his house slowly. Enough times to warrant the citizen coming out on his driveway(still on his own property), and recording him. There has to be more to this story. Dude had to do something to get him this much attention. Maybe so. And thankfully there's a process for that. You, as the police, go to a neutral magistrate, present evidence, and get a warrant. If they're gathering information to get a warrant, fair enough, maybe that means driving around a couple times, but the moment the police pull the gun, they've gone way beyond the reasonable. The guy's on his own property performing lawful activity. No excuse for the police. The officer should be suspended without pay for a not insignificant period of time. A month or so to start. He should feel it financially. None of this "taxpayer funded vacation" BS that keeps happening. Edited August 10, 2015 by DogofWar1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Police treating EVERYONE like a potential major threat is why we have way more shootings by police in this country than just about every other first world nation. the number of ignorant asses here probably is a factor as well. some behave uncivilized unlike most of our domesticated 1st worlders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) the number of ignorant asses here probably is a factor as well. some behave uncivilized unlike most of our domesticated 1st worlders That may be true, but let's not pretend that police culture hasn't helped push that along. There are issues outside it, but they contribute in a not insignificant way. Edited August 10, 2015 by DogofWar1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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