TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think it's fair to give Kirk the Jaguars game though even considering he didn't start. He did win that game. Right, I think Kirk nets out to one (should have Jags, shouldn't have Titans) and Colt nets out to two (should have Titans and should keep Cowboys). I guess Griffin would lose one (Jags) and keep his one (Eagles). More or less, it all evens out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Right, I think Kirk nets out to one (should have Jags, shouldn't have Titans) and Colt nets out to two (should have Titans and should keep Cowboys). I guess Griffin would lose one (Jags) and keep his one (Eagles). More or less, it all evens out. Overall it wasn't good for any of them. I guess lets just hope whomever they go with he leads us to victories while becoming an franchise guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm not really sure I have ever understood the love for Cousins. He's the definition of a JAG. Best case scenario is he's the next generation of Kyle Orton/Matt Cassel ... At least RGIII has the potential and skill-set to be a franchise QB. If it's not gonna be RGIII it's not gonna be either one, and we are going to be back at the well in 2016 looking for a QB. So I'm not sure I will ever understand this insistence that Cousins be given a shot ... almost like everyone just hates RGIII for the sake of hating him because he's an easy scapegoat. In my mind, there's a 40% chance RGIII re-emerges and becomes a franchise-caliber player. Cousins stands at about 5% ... and a 55% chance the franchise QB isn't on this roster ... So why the hell are you going to go with Cousins over RGIII in the last year to see who is the franchise QB? Just makes 0 sense. You go all-in on the guy that gives you the best chance of becoming that guy. It's likely because potential and skill-set aren't the only factors when determining if a QB will succeed. Tom Brady was not viewed as having the potential or skill set compared to guys like Chad Pennington, Giovanni Carmazzi,, Chris Redman, Tee Martin, Marc Bulger and Spurgeon Wynn. Those are the QBs who were drafted higher that year than Tom Brady. Jack Thompson, Phil Simms, Steve Fuller. Those are the QBs who were drafted ahead of Joe Montana. Bart Starr went in the 17th round. George Blanda 12th round. Roger Staubach 10th round. Johnny Unitas was drafted in the 9th round and was cut before the season even started. He signed the next year with the Colts. These guys are some of the best to have ever played the position but it's obvious by their draft position that they were not "can't miss" success stories with obvious potential and exhibiting a top of the line skill set. And no I am not comparing Cousins to Brady or Montana or anyone else. What I am making the case for is that you can't just say that just because RG3 has more potential than Cousins means that he's the only one that has any shot of being good. The list of Jeff George's and Ryan Leaf's and all the other QBs coming into the league with "all the measurables" is incredible. There is something more to it than that. And let me add I don't think either one has had their full chance at the job. I think both can improve. And in the end I really don't care who wins. Except for the Redskins. That's who I want to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And let me add I don't think either one has had their full chance at the job. I think both can improve. Right. And I understand the Brady reference ... those are rare instances ... and I would argue that there was a guy in that 2012 draft: Russell Wilson ... chances of 2 of them are even more rare ... but let's give it a fair shot ... if Cousins hadn't stepped on the field I would be more inclined to give him a shot. But he has ... and he hasn't played that consistently or that well. Cousins hasn't shown me that he has the potential to be anything more than a 2nd coming of Rex Grossman. Redskins fans forget ... but Cousins was so god awful in some instances. While RGIII has looked bad and taken some REAL bad sacks and pressures ... he's more careful with the ball (maybe to a fault) and he has shown once he gains some elusiveness and get's some more time, that the can make plays. Kirk might create some more time, but then he just throws a terrible ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Right. And I understand the Brady reference ... those are rare instances ... and I would argue that there was a guy in that 2012 draft: Russell Wilson ... chances of 2 of them are even more rare ... but let's give it a fair shot ... if Cousins hadn't stepped on the field I would be more inclined to give him a shot. But he has ... and he hasn't played that consistently or that well. Cousins hasn't shown me that he has the potential to be anything more than a 2nd coming of Rex Grossman. Redskins fans forget ... but Cousins was so god awful in some instances. While RGIII has looked bad and taken some REAL bad sacks and pressures ... he's more careful with the ball (maybe to a fault) and he has shown once he gains some elusiveness and get's some more time, that the can make plays. Kirk might create some more time, but then he just throws a terrible ball. But what I don't get is that you've seen all you need to see from Cousins after 9 starts and yet support RG3 who has had 35 starts, while readily admitting both have easily apparent faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 RG3's last 14 games: 240/370 64.9 comp% 2728 yds 11 TDs 9 ints 11 fumbles Cousins last (only) 14 games: 240/407 59 comp% 3030 yds 18 TDs 19 ints 6 fumbles It's not like you can tell from looking at these numbers which has the vastly superior skill set and the greater potential... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins/psu1981 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 2 I believe CLE game in his rookie year. TEN this past year. He's lost 7 starts. PHI, NYG, ARI, SEA last year and ATL, DAL and NYG to finish out the hell that was 2013. I posted that because I found it odd you would use only having 1 win to highlight a QB when fact is all of our QBs pretty much fail in the win category. I know this obviously doesn't count however Cousins did his part against, Eagles, Ari, Sea and Atl. Those could have potentially been 4 wins if our defense didn't play like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I don't think a guy taken in the 3rd round should necessarily be thought of as a "bust" since it isn't a top round selection. That being said, the best word I can come up with for how Hank turned out so far for us is "disappointing". I had much higher hopes for him but I think he best he will ever be in the league is "decent". 3rd round and later round WR's don't usually produce. Numbers show that Hankerson did better then most. Since 2011 there has been 83 WR's taken in the third round or later, the best ones, TY Hilton (5'8 which is why he was taken so late) and Keenan Allen but not much else there, He's put up more numbers in the NFL then 90% of those 83 other guys drafted. I understand disappointment to I still think healthy he could be helpful on the team and hope he re-signs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins/psu1981 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The one thing we keep on forgetting in this RG3 and Cousins debate is.............................................................................................................RG3 CAN'T STAY HEALTHY...EVER!!! Honestly, it's like we ignore the pink elephant on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins/psu1981 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I just don't understand the logic of some people to think that Cousins should go elsewhere. We already know Colt is not going to be re-signed this year. So we are going to pick up either a mid round QB in this draft or pick up a Hoyer type QB who has never played in Gruden's offense only for them to eventually have to go on the field next year when RG3 tweaks some type of knee, leg, foot..whatever? QB competition is what we need. Plain and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 he led the team in drops that year, according to this site http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2012/ but, to be fair, he's been better since then. (of course, he's hardly played, so...) He barely played in 2011 it was like his rookie season pretty much. He had the lowest percentage of drops the next year and only dropper 2 passes that season and got better http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 RG3's last 14 games: 240/370 64.9 comp% 2728 yds 11 TDs 9 ints 11 fumbles Cousins last (only) 14 games: 240/407 59 comp% 3030 yds 18 TDs 19 ints 6 fumbles It's not like you can tell from looking at these numbers which has the vastly superior skill set and the greater potential... some context Cousins threw 9 passes in the Denver game and came in with 4 minutes left in the game Cousins threw 2 passes in the Ravens game and came in at the end of the 4th quarter Cousins threw 9 passes in the Falcons game and came in with 2 minutes left in the third quarter 14 games is 14 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 In all honesty I think it's much worse if Griffin succeeds elsewhere as opposed to Cousins. We didn't spend multiple first round picks on Cousins and then give up on him. And this idea that Gruden loves Cousins is lost on me as well. He could've continued playing Cousins and giving him very valuable development time yet benched him and made him inactive. It did Cousins no favors to sit on the sidelines in street clothes. My feelings are Gruden won't be here much longer. Scot is going to want his own guy in here and I can promise you it's not Gruden. You really think Scot didn't have this talk with Snyder? I'm sure Scot told him that he'd give Gruden a chance but he's on a very short rope. Few things here: 1) As TD_washingtonredskins said, the net result here would be bad if either one succeeded elsewhere. Doesn't matter how much we spent on either one at that point, it'd be a huge loss knowing we let a potential franchise QB leave. 2) I never mentioned anything about who Gruden likes or doesn't like, so don't know why you brought that up. 3) You can't promise me anything about Scot and how he feels towards Gruden. Total speculation on your part. And I don't particularly care if you think I'm crushing Gruden because I'm an "obsessed fanboy". I wanted Gruden hired and I felt that way up until he started playing musical chairs at the QB position. I didn't want Cousins bench for McCoy and I didn't want RGIII benched for McCoy. McCoy sucks and has sucked for the majority of his career. The fact that he benched two young, developing QBs for an journeyman QB with no future as a starter in this league pissed me off. My feelings are that he's in over his head and if you think I'm being a fanboy than so be it. I'm sorry you took it that way, only the first part of my post was really in response to you, the rest of it was just a general commentary on the weird thought process many have on this board with regards to Gruden and Robert, not anything directed at you. Should've been clearer about that. But to your points, at the time of each benching it made total sense. Cousins was an absolute wreck. I'm sure you know I've been someone who really likes Cousins for some time now and even I couldn't find fault in benching him. He was completely broken down mentally by the Titans game and the thing that made him good enough to that point, his willingness to sling it, was even gone. He was hesitating to let go of the ball. It would've spiraled out of control at that point and it's a good thing he went to the bench. Probably his only chance of regaining any semblance of his confidence back. When Griffin got benched, he had just come off two of the worst performances I've seen from a QB. He was just awful against Tampa and San Fran. No way around it. There were reports coming from everywhere that the locker room was disgruntled about his play as well. Players were tweeting things showing their frustration. The film was showing that he's got such a poor grasp of the offense that he'd take the wrong steps, move INTO sacks, and miss wide open players even while looking at them directly. Now, maybe Gruden should've stuck with him and let him work his way out of it, but it certainly wasn't crazy to bench him and it arguably worked out for the best, as the next time Griffin started he was a much better QB against Philly. The musical chairs thing stinks, but so did the QBs who were involved in it. Out of the three, only McCoy seemed to have any semblance of consistency and a basic level of decent QBing to where the offense could run smoothly game to game. I don't think Gruden ever intended to bench McCoy had he not got hurt. Actually, it's doubtful he would've even benched Griffin had he not got hurt against the Jags in the first place. Just tough situations all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66skinsfan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 My point is to go for a young team, and shed players that are injury prone/high salary cap (like Griffin, Orakpo). Build with the draft, let Cousins and McCoy have a QB competiton. We need to rebuild this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 For the last time McCoy isn't coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyeG Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Media, coaches can says that RG3 is the starter as of today which they have but I believe both RG3 and KC compete during training camp and preseason and the one that evolves as the most proficient will be the starter opening day. wish this was true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The musical chairs thing stinks, but so did the QBs who were involved in it. Out of the three, only McCoy seemed to have any semblance of consistency and a basic level of decent QBing to where the offense could run smoothly game to game. I don't think Gruden ever intended to bench McCoy had he not got hurt. Actually, it's doubtful he would've even benched Griffin had he not got hurt against the Jags in the first place. Just tough situations all around. That's the most important part many around here seems to easily forgot. Everyone's bashing Jay for the musical chairs, but he didn't play it wrongly in any way. - Griffin get injured and he turn to Cousins who is #2 on the Depth chart: OK Move. - Cousins turn into TO machine one game out of two nearly and goes to McCoy. OK Move. - McCoy wins Dallas, then Griffin is healthy. As #1 on the depth chart, he reverts back to Griffin. OK Move as well. McCoy didn't had such an impressive performance to throw Griffin away. He was doing OK as a backup and that's it. - Griffin plays horribly, he have no opportunity to go back to McCoy who stepped as #2 on the depth chart. OK Move. - McCoy gets hurt, he goes back to Griffin who shows some kind of improvment for the last games. OK Move again. In terms of handling the QB position, Gruden did what he can with what he had at hand. The fact is that of the three QB that were on the roster, no matter which camp you stand for, Robert or Kirk, the only one that didn't let Gruden down, was the third string QB. Griffin and Cousins both had their flows last year. To the defense of Cousins, he really had only two bad games (NYG and ARI). And the TO machine he is didn't throw a pick against SEA, with a pretty good game. In fact, this year he was playing good one game out of two. Finally, looking at situational on NFL.com for Griffin and Cousins it stood out that Griffin sucked at two things: - RZ Offense. - Playing ahead. His stats are absolutely horrible when we're leading. And Cousins his horrible coming into 3rd Quarter and during two minutes drills. All of these seems like troubles with the mental aspect of the game for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins/psu1981 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 - McCoy wins Dallas, then Griffin is healthy. As #1 on the depth chart, he reverts back to Griffin. OK Move as well. McCoy didn't had such an impressive performance to throw Griffin away. He was doing OK as a backup and that's it. How was that an OK move? Even RG3 said that foot injury was more severe than he thought it would be. We again rushed back a QB that simply wasn't healthy enough to get back in there. Mccoy (while not playing great, but good) for the most part held his own in the Dallas game and deserved to get us to 4-5 in the standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Going back to the starter that comes back from injury is OK. Exept if the backup did play so outstandingly that he became the natural #1 on the depth chart. Griffin was cleared. There was even rumors about him coming back for the Dallas game. So it was obvious for him to take his job back. You can question if you want about the date, but moving back from Colt McCoy to Robert Griffin was the obvious choice to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Going back to the starter that comes back from injury is OK. Exept if the backup did play so outstandingly that he became the natural #1 on the depth chart. Griffin was cleared. There was even rumors about him coming back for the Dallas game. So it was obvious for him to take his job back. You can question if you want about the date, but moving back from Colt McCoy to Robert Griffin was the obvious choice to do. If the name of the game is winning NFL football games, McCoy was the only player with backtoback wins last year and never should have given way to Griffin. Griffin was the right move if only to see if he had any chance at rebuilding his busted career and he obviously didn't show he could. Now we are stuck with him because of politics and nothing more, look above at the political convo going on about how bad it will be if Griffin is successful somewhere else that's real, that's why Griffin was playing, that's why when the one time he did something good last season the coaching staff freaked out and people started believing they were rooting for him. Griffin's 9 games, 4 TD passes in those games with what was called the best receiving group in the league prior to start the season shows that he can't play professional football but because of politics and "looking bad" they are stuck with him. He needs to go, and we need to get rid of that boat anchor for good. The thought he's going somewhere else and becoming a good QB to me means only one thing, some out there believe he's playing like crap here to get out of here which is a conspiracy theory I don't buy at all. He sucks and we need to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 McCoy got another shot to start and he was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 One QB throws awful picks and the other won't throw past the line of scrimmage. Neither is going win games for you. Let's hope they improve in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 RG3's last 14 games: 240/370 64.9 comp% 2728 yds 11 TDs 9 ints 11 fumbles Cousins last (only) 14 games: 240/407 59 comp% 3030 yds 18 TDs 19 ints 6 fumbles It's not like you can tell from looking at these numbers which has the vastly superior skill set and the greater potential... Add in sacks. Count each sack taken as a incomplete pass, and the yards lost as negative passing yards. Now how does it look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I can't picture getting rid of either of them at this point. Let them go through TC and battle it out for the starting position; best man wins. If either one has not shown any improvement, then look to the trading block; Yes, Griffin has had far more starts/games than Cousins, and he should be further ahead in mental aspects of the game; the very thing that is effecting Cousins, via throwing ints. He has a number of issues that he must correct, mental and physical; I relate Cousins' issues more with the infamous sophomoric slump, in which a real QB coach, dedicated only to the QB, hopefully would have worked through it with him, but it didn't happen that way. But, if both are close in their production, then they have to be kept. If they put all their eggs in one basket { QB ] then it will be a failure in the making. Neither QB should have to look over their shoulder, wondering if they'll be yanked, but at the same time, they should not have it in their head to start with, but that's easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Add in sacks. Count each sack taken as a incomplete pass, and the yards lost as negative passing yards. Now how does it look? Ah the old, "well let's make up a stat so it makes my guy look better" routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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