ESPN - Redskins QB thoughts: Kirk Cousins and more

[Epochalypse]

Hell even EJ Manual did better then that in only half the time and he was just replaced by Josh McCown.

umm what? The Browns signed McCown to replace Manuel who's on the Bills...

BRILLIANT! That's some outside the box thinking right there.

[mistertim]

I don't think a guy taken in the 3rd round should necessarily be thought of as a "bust" since it isn't a top round selection. That being said, the best word I can come up with for how Hank turned out so far for us is "disappointing". I had much higher hopes for him but I think he best he will ever be in the league is "decent". 

[DrillMusic]

The plan is to draft Connor Cook or Hackenberg next year. Unless there's a miracle with Griffin or Cousins.

 

 

neither of those qbs are even the best qb prospects in the big ten

Why should anyone give Griffin the benefit of the doubt? In nine games he played in last year he was 40th in the league in TD passes when he threw 4 of them. Cousins and McCoy played much less and did better. Hell even EJ Manual did better then that in only half the time and he was just replaced by Josh McCown. There is no reason to believe that Griffin will turn anything around, he never had it in the first place. When he was doing great in 2012 he was leading with his legs and keeping teams off balance and he can't do that anymore. There should be no misunderstanding about my thoughts on these QB's I don't like either and don't believe in either of them anymore. They both should hit the bricks and we should be drafting a new QB this season

 

Griffin will be remembered in history as a huge draft bust you, me, and everyone else will have to live with. There is no way out of the Griffin mess except to just dump him at this point. Hankerson on the other hand is not the QB or the reason that Griffin lost 17 of his last 22 starts and that's with me giving him a W for the Jacksonville game when he only threw 3 passes!

 

That's why I give him no benefit of the doubt. I expect a starting NFL QB to throw TD passes and win games. Two things Griffin can't do. You want to continue believing be my guest but results like that don't turn around in this league. You can go point out Steve Young if you want to from 25+ years ago but show me another QB who was as awful as that who became a good QB in this league

 

Hankerson on the other hand as you pointed out has been productive as a WR but missed a lot of time, Your stats don't show that he was the surest handed receiver with the least amount of drops during that time. A WR can't throw himself the football. He is still the only 6'2 WR on the team where height in this league at that position actually matters most and he still has the biggest hands on the team, and he is a good route runner, and he would be extremely cheap to re-sign. We can use him. Hankerson would be our WR4 and is the only WR in that time frame 2011-2013 who had multiple TD games. For a cheap player we should re-sign him and see what he can do for us. Griffin can kick rocks I am tired of losing because of him. We don't lose because of Hankerson and I hope they do re-sign Hankerson. I'm a fan of the team but when guys drag it down I don't like them. That's where I am with Cousins and Griffin. Time to start over with someone new

 

 

griffin does get a lot of td passes taken away because of morris though

[RedBeast]

I read something this morning which gave me pause in regards to the RG3/KC debate and resonated. Something to the effect of:

1. KC made the hard plays look easy and the easy plays look hard

2. Most effective of the three

3. More of a drop back style QB

4. Has the capability to lead the team

5. Must improve attitude and demeanor, strengthen relationships

6. Must improve TD/INT ratio

That was the gyst of it. IF? If he can accomplish the above??? Or demonstrate sufficient solid progress? Could the Redskins let RG3 walk and extend Kirk? Especially if RG3 gets hurt again.

That would really be a mind**** for the overall HTTR/DC community. Whoda thought?

Food for thought...

[skins island connection]

Long ago, back when the Redskins were the New England Patriots of the NFL, I came across what I thought was a great deal; a 1977 Datsun 280Z, black, sleek looking, had BFGoodrich tires, Enkei gold honeycomb rims, and I thought I was the ****.

 

The first week, I was on cloud nine. Took it up to 144 until it began to float and drift, and I knew to slow it down. After a few weeks, I began to notice the little rust places, when I shut the back lid some rust would fall off, the heater worked when it wanted to, and whooa what a maintenance bill.

 

Later I ended up selling it and getting a Toyota 4WD truck; a little more practical, until I discovered the beach dunes. I've never washed a vehicle so much in my life.

 

Point is, the shiny toys that make us go 'oooh and ahhh' end up not being worthwhile or practical for our purpose. Whether its a car thats always in the shop or one that actually has 1 specific purpose, in most cases its not the flashiness, but the durability and dependability, and getting from point A to B.

[MartinC]

I read something this morning which gave me pause in regards to the RG3/KC debate and resonated. Something to the effect of:

1. KC made the hard plays look easy and the easy plays look hard

2. Most effective of the three

3. More of a drop back style QB

4. Has the capability to lead the team

5. Must improve attitude and demeanor, strengthen relationships

6. Must improve TD/INT ratio

 

 

7. Must improve second half performance relative to first half.

8. Must drastically improve perfromance in obvious passing situations (linked to point7) specifically on 3rd and passing downs.

 

IMO unless and until Kirk shows he can address point 8 in particular he's a career backup.

[RedBeast]

7. Must improve second half performance relative to first half.

8. Must drastically improve perfromance in obvious passing situations (linked to point7) specifically on 3rd and passing downs.

IMO unless and until Kirk shows he can address point 8 in particular he's a career backup.

Who knows...both RG and KC need a lot of improvement. Both could walk next year. We could be left without anything from that years draft. This year is so critical for determining our QB future. Scary.

[MartinC]

Who knows...both RG and KC need a lot of improvement. Both could walk next year. We could be left without anything from that years draft. This year is so critical for determining our QB future. Scary.

 

I think the most likely position is that we establsh in 2015 that our long term QB is not on the roster. But I think RGIII is more likely than Kirk to prove me wrong on that.

[RedBeast]

I think the most likely position is that we establsh in 2015 that our long term QB is not on the roster. But I think RGIII is more likely than Kirk to prove me wrong on that.

I just introduced a possibility for discussion, even a remote one

[MartinC]

I just introduced a possibility for discussion, even a remote one

 

I know - I was agreeing with you 

[stp240]

Look man first off I dont know you so have no idea why your bring up me being a fan of Leonard Hankerson, second off your wrong saying the season doesnt start in March.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/17/2014-15-nfl-calendar/

March 10 at 4pm the 2015 season starts, says it right there. You can think whatever you want, its a free country and I have to assume your a Redskins fan even though you seem to have an issue with me being a fan of a player on the team so honestly maybe your not? As for Hankerson he was the 2nd most productive WR while he was here between 2011 and 2013 and was the Redskins most productive WR they drafted since the early 2000s and that is also the truth, like me or not thats just what it is

 

Hankerson is awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwfulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

 

He runs like a wounded giraffe

 

He has awful hands!!!! Do you watch the games?

 

His YAC abilities are the worst in the NFL

 

Can't catch, can't run....My goodnessss.  Maybe his injury derailed what could have been a productive career, but my goodness is he bad.  

 

Want proof?

 

 

 

It's truly incredible that RG3 had a 65.5 completion percentage with this joke of an NFL player 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Could the Redskins let RG3 walk and extend Kirk? Especially if RG3 gets hurt again.

That would really be a mind**** for the overall HTTR/DC community. Whoda thought?

Food for thought...

 

 

I know it would have been a major gamble at the time (less so now), but I was all for trading Griffin at the end of 2013 and moving forward with Cousins starting last year. 

[War Paint]

This is the final year we will be rolling with both Robert and Kirk on the roster. The team needs to pick one of the two QBs and let the other one go.  As long as both Robert and Kirk are here, there will always be a divided fanbase calling for the other QB to start when one of them has a bad game. 

 

One criticism I see about Kirk, besides the INTs, is how he looks dejected on the bench after throwing picks.  I think there's a perfectly good explanation for that.  Kirk is in a position where he feels like one bad game can ruin his career and his margin of error is small.  With that mindset, he probably starts to press too much during games and it snowballs into several picks.  Instead of moving on to the next play after an INT, he's probably thinking "I just ruined my only opportunity to become a starter."   For example, if Robert wasn't drafted by us and we drafted Kirk to be "the guy", I think he wouldn't look so dejected after a bad play because he'd have confidence the team would be patient with him as he becomes acclimated with the NFL. 

[Alexa]

Long ago, back when the Redskins were the New England Patriots of the NFL, I came across what I thought was a great deal; a 1977 Datsun 280Z, black, sleek looking, had BFGoodrich tires, Enkei gold honeycomb rims, and I thought I was the ****.

 

The first week, I was on cloud nine. Took it up to 144 until it began to float and drift, and I knew to slow it down. After a few weeks, I began to notice the little rust places, when I shut the back lid some rust would fall off, the heater worked when it wanted to, and whooa what a maintenance bill.

 

Later I ended up selling it and getting a Toyota 4WD truck; a little more practical, until I discovered the beach dunes. I've never washed a vehicle so much in my life.

 

Point is, the shiny toys that make us go 'oooh and ahhh' end up not being worthwhile or practical for our purpose. Whether its a car thats always in the shop or one that actually has 1 specific purpose, in most cases its not the flashiness, but the durability and dependability, and getting from point A to B.

LMAO. I had the exact same Z except mine was a 78. After a while, I thought I was going to be Fred Flintstone and power the car with my feet. The floor boards rusted out so bad that I could reach behind my seat and touch the cement. My heat also when out and antifreeze leaked all over the passenger floor board!  I still loved that car though!

[Gurgeh]

IIRC interceptions have always been something of a problem for Kirk, they didn't just start when he joined the NFL, they just got worse - and that's my issue with him, he hasn't shown any sign of getting better the more games he gets.

 

That's not to say I'm sold on RGIII either, they both make mistakes. I'm not sure Griffin really accepts how much he has to improve. In a way having so much natural talent can be something of a hindrance when making the step up to being a professional; those with a little less ability are used to having to work at every aspect of their game to get ahead.

 

Right now, we're stuck with one QB who looks like a decent backup, and one who has the talent but isn't delivering on the field. I can see both being gone, but not before next season starts.

[mechanix544]

Hankerson is awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwfulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

 

He runs like a wounded giraffe

 

He has awful hands!!!! Do you watch the games?

 

His YAC abilities are the worst in the NFL

 

Can't catch, can't run....My goodnessss.  Maybe his injury derailed what could have been a productive career, but my goodness is he bad.  

 

Want proof?

 

<EDIT>

 

 

It's truly incredible that RG3 had a 65.5 completion percentage with this joke of an NFL player 

All that I saw when I watched the Hankerson video was a tall possession wide receiver. Above average hands, below average in space, below average in traffic. I think he is definitely worth a roster spot, and I think that if he can learn to catch in traffic better, he can be a good #2 in this league. But thats what I see, a solid possession receiver.

[skins island connection]

All that I saw when I watched the Hankerson video was a tall possession wide receiver. Above average hands, below average in space, below average in traffic. I think he is definitely worth a roster spot, and I think that if he can learn to catch in traffic better, he can be a good #2 in this league. But thats what I see, a solid possession receiver.

 

 Hankerson would be best suited going on a beer & donut diet and converting to TE.  That is, if he can block a lick.

[mike42]

Kirk has his share of late INT game meltdowns, but he has been the most productive QB last season. (Andrew Luck has made similar stupid ints) Kirk fits Gruden's system the best and gives Gruden's employment in 2016 a realistic chance.

 

We are wise to keep Kirk because Kirk will obviously be the starter by week 1 or maybe sooner. Kirk isn't the most talented, but he is overall the best QB on this team. He just looks more developed.

 

In my mind, I've already planned on Kirk being #1 starter, despite Gruden saying RG3 is #1 guy.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The Sports Fix had a nice segment with Thom, Kevin, and Chris Russell. The gist is that Cousins will be given a legitimate shot to win the starting job. Sheehan went as far as to say that it will be so obvious he is the better QB, that he'll be given the week 1 start (his prediction). 

 

I don't really believe he'll be given a fair shot to win the job. However, if he outplays Griffin as soundly as he did during last pre-season, it's not ridiculous that the team turn to him. I think that's my preference since I believe it's more likely that Cousins will pan out. But I guess all I really want is for one of them to clearly outplay the other and have a solid-to-good season at QB. 

[Leonard Washington]

Hopefully the 2015 RG3 is more decisive. Hopefully the 2015 Cousins is more cautious.

[66skinsfan]

I believe it is time to trade RGIII for draft pick(s).  I think the skins need a youth movement, not relying on old retreads from other teams, but building on the draft.  Cast off often injured players (trade for as many draft picks as possible).  Cousins/McCoy will do for QB's (play Cousins first half, McCoy second half).

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I believe it is time to trade RGIII for draft pick(s).  I think the skins need a youth movement, not relying on old retreads from other teams, but building on the draft.  Cast off often injured players (trade for as many draft picks as possible).  Cousins/McCoy will do for QB's (play Cousins first half, McCoy second half).

WUT

[TD_washingtonredskins]

WUT

 

 

I'm perfectly fine trading Griffin for picks (though I think we'd be unloading him for pennies on the dollar, so I wouldn't expect a large return at all). But after that you just have to play Cousins and hope he works through his issues. 

[arftech]

I believe it is time to trade RGIII for draft pick(s).  I think the skins need a youth movement, not relying on old retreads from other teams, but building on the draft.  Cast off often injured players (trade for as many draft picks as possible).  Cousins/McCoy will do for QB's (play Cousins first half, McCoy second half).

Jeebus!!!

 

HTTR!

[RedBeast]

I'm perfectly fine trading Griffin for picks (though I think we'd be unloading him for pennies on the dollar, so I wouldn't expect a large return at all). But after that you just have to play Cousins and hope he works through his issues.

Conversely allow RG3 the same opportunity