Mike Shanahan Tells All on ESPN 980 (RGIII, McNabb, Manning, Haynseworth) Link included w/ Audio

[gtn130]

I don't care about the other arguments you are having couldnt care less about your Gibbs angle.

Point of fact that you are missing is that Mike Shanahan said Snyder didn't meddle.

So when you say your comments have nothing to do with the interview your are dismissing what Mike actually said.

 

 

So you are gonna just make stuff up? Okay.

Mike didn't flat out say McNabb was Snyder decision YOU are saying that.

However; Mike said directly to Sheehan that Dan didnt meddle with personnel decisions.

If I wasn't on my phone id quote it

 

 

GTN- dg wasnt saying dan ordered the mcnabb trade. he said this-

 

 

 

hes saying why we would potentially be interested in him.

 

they are 2 different things.

 

(of course, this explains why there are still 'why are you defending dan snyder' posts....)

 

The argument has been about whether Shanahan said Snyder "meddled" or not.

 

I pointed DG to a wapo article titled Mike Shanahan says Daniel Snyder led the push for Donovan McNabb and DG unsurprisingly lost interest thereafter. 

 

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[goskins10]

So now you are calling me a liar for claiming that I was a huge Griffin backer?  Awesome.  If I cared more I'd post links from the other board. 

 

LMAO at you taking my line "hate his guts" so literally.  It's an expression dude, calm down already.  I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of this post given it's tone.  . 

 

 

There was no tone. I wasn't calling you a liar at all, Not sure where you got that from. I said regardless of what you said about supporting RGIII it's clear you hate him now. I believe you supported him until 6 months ago or whenever you said. But clearly you see him differently now. SO I was saying telling me how you felt 6 months ago has no bearing now. If that's calling you a liar, then it's you who may need to relax a little.

 

As for taking you literally, that's all we have when not talking in a room together. It's the reason people get fired over stupid emails.

 

But OK, I will paly along. Hate each other guts is an exaggeration. Even stating that two coaching staffs and most of the locker room really don't like him is just your opinion and there no factual data to support it. Did he piss some people off? Sure. You don't work that closely with that many people and not have different opinions, especially with a bunch of guys who are hyper competitive.

 

The main point you keep not even talking about it and was the main point of your original argument and what I have been addressing is to let MS off and say, well it's mostly RGIII when it's just not supported by any facts. MS was the HC. RGIII is a player. He plays for MS. It's Mike's job to get him in line if he is out. I am not absolving RGIII of his part. He has been immature and very careless with his comments and actions. He also needs to play better.

 

But MS still owns the management of the relationship. If he can't control it, it's on him, especially with his amount of previous experience as a HC in the NFL.

[darrelgreenie]

The argument has been about whether Shanahan said Snyder "meddled" or not.....

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Yup. Exactly.

As per Kevin Sheehan

-Mike Shanahan said that Dan Snyder wasn't involved in personnel decisions.

So regardless of whatever Mike implied in the interview he stopped short of saying Dan Snyder made decision X.

I'm still on phone but its out there just look it up.

[Darrell Green Fan]

There was no tone. I wasn't calling you a liar at all, Not sure where you got that from. I said regardless of what you said about supporting RGIII it's clear you hate him now. I believe you supported him until 6 months ago or whenever you said. But clearly you see him differently now. SO I was saying telling me how you felt 6 months ago has no bearing now. If that's calling you a liar, then it's you who may need to relax a little.

 

As for taking you literally, that's all we have when not talking in a room together. It's the reason people get fired over stupid emails.

 

But OK, I will paly along. Hate each other guts is an exaggeration. Even stating that two coaching staffs and most of the locker room really don't like him is just your opinion and there no factual data to support it. Did he piss some people off? Sure. You don't work that closely with that many people and not have different opinions, especially with a bunch of guys who are hyper competitive.

 

The main point you keep not even talking about it and was the main point of your original argument and what I have been addressing is to let MS off and say, well it's mostly RGIII when it's just not supported by any facts. MS was the HC. RGIII is a player. He plays for MS. It's Mike's job to get him in line if he is out. I am not absolving RGIII of his part. He has been immature and very careless with his comments and actions. He also needs to play better.

 

But MS still owns the management of the relationship. If he can't control it, it's on him, especially with his amount of previous experience as a HC in the NFL.

 

 

Let me ask you a question:  At what point do you stop blaming the coach and start understanding that it's the player?  Were all of Lawrence Philips' coaches to blame for his behavior?  Was it the coach's fault that Ron Artest went into the stands that night?  To put all of the blame on the coach when the player gets out of line is idiotic. 

 

You keep going to the well that it was MS's job to control this player.  My point is it was not just the player.  It was a player who was enabled and empowered by the owner who was not only allowing the behavior I have described but there is evidence that he was encouraging it. You have a father who was so involved he showed up in the locker room and then met with the coaches to illustrate how they wanted the offense to run.  So this was not just a coach dealing with the player.  It was a coach battling a player, a father and most importantly the owner. 

 

But you don't want to look at the evidence.   You don't want to acknowledge that 2 different coaching staffs have been very critical of the QB.  You don't want to acknowledge the player comments from Santana and others that were very critical as well.  You want to ignore all the reports of a fractured locker room.  You dismiss this as hearsay and ask me to prove it.  The quotes from Shanny, Gruden, Santana as well as others have been played at length.  If you are going to ignore them that's your choice but stop acting as if they didn't exist, the entire nation heard them.

 

I'm just asking for you to use a little common sense here.  Coaches and other players rarely rip their QB.  It like never happens, right?  Yet it is happened with this guy repeatedly.   For it to get to that point common sense should tell you that it was really really bad.  But you don't want to believe it.  So you can pull the sheets over your head and deny all you want, I'm using the common sense approach.  Where there is this much smoke there is usually fire.

[gtn130]

Yup. Exactly.

As per Kevin Sheehan

-Mike Shanahan said that Dan Snyder wasn't involved in personnel decisions.

So regardless of whatever Mike implied in the interview he stopped short of saying Dan Snyder made decision X.

I'm still on phone but its out there just look it up.

 

Shanahan in that interview:

>Says Snyder didn't make the final decisions

>Proceeds to blame every decisions on Snyder's involvement

 

ok

[darrelgreenie]

...Shanahan in that interview:

>Says Snyder didn't make the final decisions

>Proceeds to blame every decisions on Snyder's involvement

ok

Exactly.

And afterwards Mike made it a point to tell Sheehan that Snyder didnt wasn't involved with personnel decisions.

So. Even in his own tell all dude can't get the story straight.

But to be clear he sloppily implied Snyder involvement in the interview ( even though Mike had total control written into his contract) AND made it a point to tell Sheehan that Snyder wasnj't involved in personnel decisions.

[gtn130]

Yeah, but that kind of corroborates my argument, which is that the truth is somewhere in the middle, and Snyder's involvement isn't some binary yes/no thing that everyone makes it out to be

[darrelgreenie]

And my only point with you, all along, has been only that Mike did indeed say that Dan wasn't involved in personnel decisions which you seemed to dispute.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah, but that kind of corroborates my argument, which is that the truth is somewhere in the middle, and Snyder's involvement isn't some binary yes/no thing that everyone makes it out to be

 

 

Totally agree with this comment.  Regarding DG's last comment it depends on what you mean by "involved".  To me that means he was not directing who to draft etc.  But if you think this owner, or most owners for that matter, would not be involved in big moves like McNabb or Griffin I think that is wrong

[darrelgreenie]

But I agree its not black and white. And I believe that ALL owners are involved in personnel decisions.....afterall they only own the team.

But it's one thing for an owner to have a preference or suggestions. It's quite another for them to force a decision that would clearly be a violation of the total control that was written into his guaranteed contract.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I have seen enough of Daniel Snyder's mind set to totally agree that he was pushing for both McNabb and Griffin.  He was the one who sat Jason Cambell down and told him they needed him to be a franchise QB. He was all over the Jay Cutler move.  No it's pretty clear that Little Danny wants a franchise QB.

[grego]

I have seen enough of Daniel Snyder's mind set to totally agree that he was pushing for both McNabb and Griffin. He was the one who sat Jason Cambell down and told him they needed him to be a franchise QB. He was all over the Jay Cutler move. No it's pretty clear that Little Danny wants a franchise QB.

I'm sure nobody would disagree with Dan wanting a franchise QB, or that he wanted to trade for McNabb and Griffin.

[Burgold]

I find this a pretty good summation of my opinon

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/23/mike-shanahan-continues-to-blame-everyone-but-himself-for-his-failure-with-the-redskins/

 

Mike Shanahan finished 24-40 as the coach of the Redskins. That’s a winning percentage of .375 — the same mark logged by Steve Spurrier and Jim Zorn, who were given half the time Shanahan had to turn things around. Of the 10 coaches who have lasted at least three seasons in Washington, Shanahan’s winning percentage ranks ninth.

Mike Shanahan, in other words, failed in Washington.

That’s what made his performance during last week’s six-segment, hour-plus tell-all appearance on ESPN 980 particularly remarkable. 

[MassSkinsFan]

If it was a tell-all, did he at least clarify the origin of his orange skin? Excessive carrot consumption or tanning bed abuse? I want to know!

[darrelgreenie]

...I have seen enough of Daniel Snyder's mind set to totally agree that he was pushing for both McNabb and Griffin. He was the one who sat Jason Cambell down and told him they needed him to be a franchise QB. He was all over the Jay Cutler move. No it's pretty clear that Little Danny wants a franchise QB.

And yet Mike Shanahan still had total control and a guaranteed contract.

[Burgold]

If it was a tell-all, did he at least clarify the origin of his orange skin? Excessive carrot consumption or tanning bed abuse? I want to know!

He said the orange was not his fault. Blamed his mother and his first girl friend. You don't want details.

[RandyHolt]

I have seen enough of Daniel Snyder's mind set to totally agree that he was pushing for both McNabb and Griffin.  He was the one who sat Jason Cambell down and told him they needed him to be a franchise QB. He was all over the Jay Cutler move.  No it's pretty clear that Little Danny wants a franchise QB.

 

Where have you "seen" him? It seems he rarely speaks at all. 

 

Or is your post more speculative? Playing a hunch. 

 

And every owner wants a franchise QB, its not just Dan, as we can refer to him. 

 

At least he doesn't lie to the media, and leak information to manipulate those around him. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Where have you "seen" him? It seems he rarely speaks at all. 

 

Or is your post more speculative? Playing a hunch. 

 

And every owner wants a franchise QB, its not just Dan, as we can refer to him. 

 

At least he doesn't lie to the media, and leak information to manipulate those around him. 

 

 

It's not speculative and it was a figure of speech. It was also based on incidents that took place in the past.  Little Danny has done several things, such as offering 3 1's and a 2 for Jay Cutler. That tells me he was more willing to do whatever it takes, even if it made no sense, to try to find one of these players.  This is not speculation, it came from Vinny's mouth.  Do  you require I dig up the quote as "proof"?   

[goskins10]

Let me ask you a question:  At what point do you stop blaming the coach and start understanding that it's the player?  Were all of Lawrence Philips' coaches to blame for his behavior?  Was it the coach's fault that Ron Artest went into the stands that night?  To put all of the blame on the coach when the player gets out of line is idiotic. 

 

More, deleted for space....

 

 

OK, MS got run out of Oakland. He left Denver on bad terms amid controversy about not getting along with his QBs and having no Def., not to mention getting penalized for breaking the salary cap several times (even John Elway hasn't exactly stuck up for the guy, nor Terrell Davis for that matter, ever listen to Mark Schlereth talk about him? It's not typically in a good way.). Cutler, Griese, Jake Plummer, the list goes on. Then he gets run out of DC. At what point do you say, it can't be all those players. it must be the Coach.....

 

Santana Moss, a heady veteran said RGIII should be careful what he says. the stories of a fractured locker room were dispelled by people like London Fletcher. That whole thing about the team disrupting his news conference was not about him, it was about DS and some new rules. Word was RGIII actually got along with Kyle S. pretty well. As for this coaching staff not liking him, that's grossly exaggerated. Gruden handed out some tough love and if you look at how RGIII played the last 3 gms (and how the team played for him), he obviously took it to heart.

 

We will I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am not ignoring anything. I just see things completely differently. Time will tell. It will be interesting what Ryan Clark has to say once he gets in the booth. He likes to talk and he went through it himself. That is someone I would call a credible source.

[Darrell Green Fan]

OK, MS got run out of Oakland. He left Denver on bad terms amid controversy about not getting along with his QBs and having no Def., not to mention getting penalized for breaking the salary cap several times (even John Elway hasn't exactly stuck up for the guy, nor Terrell Davis for that matter, ever listen to Mark Schlereth talk about him? It's not typically in a good way.). Cutler, Griese, Jake Plummer, the list goes on. Then he gets run out of DC. At what point do you say, it can't be all those players. it must be the Coach.....

 

Santana Moss, a heady veteran said RGIII should be careful what he says. the stories of a fractured locker room were dispelled by people like London Fletcher. That whole thing about the team disrupting his news conference was not about him, it was about DS and some new rules. Word was RGIII actually got along with Kyle S. pretty well. As for this coaching staff not liking him, that's grossly exaggerated. Gruden handed out some tough love and if you look at how RGIII played the last 3 gms (and how the team played for him), he obviously took it to heart.

 

We will I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am not ignoring anything. I just see things completely differently. Time will tell. It will be interesting what Ryan Clark has to say once he gets in the booth. He likes to talk and he went through it himself. That is someone I would call a credible source.

 

Were you impressed with Griffins final 3 games, where he threw no pass  longer than 5 yards?  Wow, your bar must be pretty low.   Those were the wimpiest game plans I've ever seen with no chance at success, just trying to minimize the damage.  Why did they plan that way?  Because they knew the limitations of their QB

 

Shanahan is tough guy to get along with, no question.   But he's hardly the first tough head coach who put winning above friendships.  You have your Elway example, I"ll give you Steve Young on the other side of this.  Regardless being a tough coach does not excuse away Griffin's behavior but what ever. 

 

Santana said far more than Griff should watch what he should say.  He said very clearly after Griff was critical of the receivers ("nobody got open") that Griffin should look at his own play before calling out others.  Gruden said the same thing. 

 

Yeah hearing from Clark would be really good.  I keep waiting for a former coach or official to come out with a tell all on just what the culture is like under Snyder.  We hear a lot of bits and pieces, and there is no question in my mind that it's really really bad, but I'd like to hear more specifics.  It would have to be an older guy ready to retire I would think.  The reason we haven't gotten it by now is these guys want to get jobs and tell alls don't get hired. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I keep waiting for a former coach or official to come out with a tell all on just what the culture is like under Snyder.  We hear a lot of bits and pieces, and there is no question in my mind that it's really really bad, but I'd like to hear more specifics.

I know a former starting OL who has said that he would like to write a book about how crazy Snyder is, how he constantly interjects himself into things that he has no business involving himself in, and some of the ridiculous ideas he has put forth when doing so.

[goskins10]

Were you impressed with Griffins final 3 games, where he threw no pass  longer than 5 yards?  Wow, your bar must be pretty low.   Those were the wimpiest game plans I've ever seen with no chance at success, just trying to minimize the damage.  Why did they plan that way?  Because they knew the limitations of their QB

 

Shanahan is tough guy to get along with, no question.   But he's hardly the first tough head coach who put winning above friendships.  You have your Elway example, I"ll give you Steve Young on the other side of this.  Regardless being a tough coach does not excuse away Griffin's behavior but what ever. 

 

Yeah hearing from Clark would be really good.  I keep waiting for a former coach or official to come out with a tell all on just what the culture is like under Snyder.  We hear a lot of bits and pieces, and there is no question in my mind that it's really really bad, but I'd like to hear more specifics.  It would have to be an older guy ready to retire I would think.  The reason we haven't gotten it by now is these guys want to get jobs and tell alls don't get hired. 

 

When he was in San Fran he was an assistant coach not the HC. That relationship is completely different, completely different. Also, while it's true many coaches have foregone relationships for winning, they have not foregone injuries for winning. Ask the people in Denver. He had a reputation for ignoring injuries and pushing his players too hard.

 

Now where did I say I was impressed with Griffins performance the last 3 games. I said they were better than earlier in the season. He showed improvement. I would better buy the argument he played so bad earlier he could not help but get better, but that's a different conversation, as is the myth that all he did was throw dump offs. In 2012 he had 8.1 yds/att, more than respectable. In 2013 he dropped to 7.0 yds/att, OK but not great. For the yr in 2014 it was 7.9, again decent. Consider the last 3 gms were 8.7, 9.6 and 8.2 for an average of about 8.7. He also had more Yds/gm, his sacks went down as each gm went by. Those are clear signs of improvement. Since everyone likes to compare him to Andrew luck (not saying he is even in the same category, but just looking at this stat), Luck was 7.7 for 2014, his highest by far. Last yr it was 6.7. Some of that is Off but not all of it.

 

Finally, please tell me where I ever absolved RGIII? I have said repeatedly that he owns some of it. You are either missing it or ignoring it. What I am saying is that MS owns a larger piece of the blame due to his position.

 

I am certain we will find out from Ryan Clark. He has no reason not to tell all. It should be interesting. if he confirms what you say I will be one of the first to acknowledge so in here where you can see it. However, I think while some of it may be true I think we will find many of the rumors are exaggerated. That's just me.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Yeah, but that kind of corroborates my argument, which is that the truth is somewhere in the middle, and Snyder's involvement isn't some binary yes/no thing that everyone makes it out to be

 

In case you haven't listened to it yet, here's verbatim what was said (emphasis is their's, not mine):

 

 

"I'd asked Mike...what is the owner's involvement, day to day. And Mike has told me MANY times: he's not involved at all. I said people have this perception that he's in the draft room, that he's timing players in Indy, that he's working players out, watching film. And Mike said no, no, no...he's not involved at all in that stuff, he doesn't meddle in anything...

 

[...]the perception that Dan's, that he's involved in the football operation on a day to day basis, he said--which Gibbs said, by the way--is just not true. He didn't meddle in anything."

 

 

 

I find it hard to ignore the above and only focus on things like "Shanahan said Snyder wanted McNabb the most" or point to things that happened in 2003 as being evidence that Snyder did indeed "meddle" in player trades and personnel decisions under Shanahan's tenure here.

[Alexa]

I know a former starting OL who has said that he would like to write a book about how crazy Snyder is, how he constantly interjects himself into things that he has no business involving himself in, and some of the ridiculous ideas he has put forth when doing so.

I was watching NFL Network yesterday, Bruce Arians and their GM were on. They were discussing how everyone at the Cards facility checks their ego at the door. Everyone knows their roll and no one in their organization steps on anyone else's toes. Their GM said that when you have people in an NFL organization that try to do a job their not suppose to be doing  is when you have dysfunction. Made me think of Snyder.

OK, MS got run out of Oakland. He left Denver on bad terms amid controversy about not getting along with his QBs and having no Def., not to mention getting penalized for breaking the salary cap several times (even John Elway hasn't exactly stuck up for the guy, nor Terrell Davis for that matter, ever listen to Mark Schlereth talk about him? It's not typically in a good way.). Cutler, Griese, Jake Plummer, the list goes on. Then he gets run out of DC. At what point do you say, it can't be all those players. it must be the Coach.....

 

Santana Moss, a heady veteran said RGIII should be careful what he says. the stories of a fractured locker room were dispelled by people like London Fletcher. That whole thing about the team disrupting his news conference was not about him, it was about DS and some new rules. Word was RGIII actually got along with Kyle S. pretty well. As for this coaching staff not liking him, that's grossly exaggerated. Gruden handed out some tough love and if you look at how RGIII played the last 3 gms (and how the team played for him), he obviously took it to heart.

 

We will I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am not ignoring anything. I just see things completely differently. Time will tell. It will be interesting what Ryan Clark has to say once he gets in the booth. He likes to talk and he went through it himself. That is someone I would call a credible source.

Are you serious?

[Darrell Green Fan]

When he was in San Fran he was an assistant coach not the HC. That relationship is completely different, completely different. Also, while it's true many coaches have foregone relationships for winning, they have not foregone injuries for winning. Ask the people in Denver. He had a reputation for ignoring injuries and pushing his players too hard.

 

Now where did I say I was impressed with Griffins performance the last 3 games. I said they were better than earlier in the season. He showed improvement. I would better buy the argument he played so bad earlier he could not help but get better, but that's a different conversation, as is the myth that all he did was throw dump offs. In 2012 he had 8.1 yds/att, more than respectable. In 2013 he dropped to 7.0 yds/att, OK but not great. For the yr in 2014 it was 7.9, again decent. Consider the last 3 gms were 8.7, 9.6 and 8.2 for an average of about 8.7. He also had more Yds/gm, his sacks went down as each gm went by. Those are clear signs of improvement. Since everyone likes to compare him to Andrew luck (not saying he is even in the same category, but just looking at this stat), Luck was 7.7 for 2014, his highest by far. Last yr it was 6.7. Some of that is Off but not all of it.

 

Finally, please tell me where I ever absolved RGIII? I have said repeatedly that he owns some of it. You are either missing it or ignoring it. What I am saying is that MS owns a larger piece of the blame due to his position.

 

I am certain we will find out from Ryan Clark. He has no reason not to tell all. It should be interesting. if he confirms what you say I will be one of the first to acknowledge so in here where you can see it. However, I think while some of it may be true I think we will find many of the rumors are exaggerated. That's just me.

You have contstantly asked me to prove with facts the charges I have made against Griffin's behavior.  You have basically said all the things we have heard about Griffin aren't true unless they can be proven.  I have referenced a number of quotes, you are dismissive of them.  So yeah you are clearly siding with Griffin and arguing my position on his behavior.  Throwing a few minor shots at Griffin does not change this. 

 

If you can't see how Gruden's critical comments about Griffin reveals about how he feels about the player then I have no idea what to tell you, you are living in a bubble. 

 

As for his last 3 games your line .  "if you look at how RGIII played the last 3 gms (and how the team played for him), he obviously took it to heart" clearly implies that you saw noticeable, encouraging improvement.  And if you did not see all the bubble screens and short drop offs at the end of the year then you just weren't paying attention.  YPA does not show how long the ball traveled in the air, just how far the play ended up going for after YAC.  .

I know a former starting OL who has said that he would like to write a book about how crazy Snyder is, how he constantly interjects himself into things that he has no business involving himself in, and some of the ridiculous ideas he has put forth when doing so.

 

 

This is a must read.