BR: Jay Gruden Has Mishandled Washington Redskins' Quarterback Situation

[gortiz]

(glad i wasnt the only one who didnt get it).

 

 

I'm still trying to figure that one out too.

 

freaking epic man ... I mean, smoke comes out my ears every time I read it.  It's borderline gibberish. 

[bradboyd80]

I believe you are not getting it. The primary purpose of offense is to score points....as many and as often as possible.

Keeping the drive alive has more potential for increasing our chances for turn-overs and penalties more than points.

The bigger the chuncks of yardage the offense can produce does three things.

 

 

1. It gets you closer to the goaline/scoring situations faster.

2. Moving the ball with less plays minimizes the chances of a drive stopping penalty or turn-over.

3. Keeps the field position in your favor.

 

The short high percentage stuff is more for when you are protecting a lead and eating up clock time, which we rarely have that luxury.

I see where you're going, and statistically I would agree; you are right.  Less number of plays can decrease the chance of a turnover; and deeper plays do get you into scoring position faster.  But only when you complete the pass.  The deeper the throw, the lower the percentage of completion, no?  How about the short pass to Garcon that led to the long TD? We sure weren't protecting a lead then. IMO, that's what we should be doing.  Short, high % stuff to get the ball in our playmakers' hands and let them do what they do (though I do understand we need to go deep on occasion to keep the D on its heels).  That lessens the chance of our QB throwing a pick and increases the chance of getting a decent result (i.e. first down, TD, etc).  But admittedly, that just my non-expert opinion.

[skins214428hail]

Another media driven pile of crap. As a matter of fact. I just finished my morning coffee. Any minute now i should have a fresh story for bleacher report.

[Laron Burgundy]

We really don't want Seattle's O Coordinator. All the Seahawks fans I've talked to want him fired.

Cinci fans wanted gruden out too after how he calls games in the playoffs. If our offense looked like Seattle I would be thrilled. They run the ball and protect their young qb from throwing 40 times a game.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Why do so many people have such a problem distinguishing "Kurt" from Kirk?  I know it's nit-picking, but come on people.....I just.....*sigh*

He is insulting Kirk with that. That guy really needs to ease up hunching Robert's leg. Doesn't he know how fragile they are?

[wrecker]

Uh......not completely.  The NFL has been doing this since it started to have long drives that wear down a defense and open up more options. They were trying the fast short plays to move the sticks, get the defense tired and it could have opened up some holes for 46.  BUT the redzone turnovers squelched getting points.  Niles Paul holds on to his 30+ yard pass that could have been a TD.....and  NOT SHORT.  How is it something RG3 "couldn't do"???????  He threw the pass - did you expect him to catch it too?

The long, defense wearing down drives since the NFL started is not indicative to today's NFL.

There may be a couple examples you could come up with so no need to do that.

You are only refering to a couple cherry picked plays/mishaps instead of overall game performance.

 

Also I am a fan of Robert by the way, and hope he will develop into a great QB for us. He is not there yet however.

[Bang]

I'm going to write a poem to best illustrate most of the media attention this team gets, and the fan nonsense it generates.

 

Shut the hell up

You give me a headache

Your idiotic over-analysis means nothing

so shut the hell up

you know-nothing twit.

 

 

~Bang

[wrecker]

I see where you're going, and statistically I would agree; you are right.  Less number of plays can decrease the chance of a turnover; and deeper plays do get you into scoring position faster.  But only when you complete the pass.  The deeper the throw, the lower the percentage of completion, no?  How about the short pass to Garcon that led to the long TD? We sure weren't protecting a lead then. IMO, that's what we should be doing.  Short, high % stuff to get the ball in our playmakers' hands and let them do what they do (though I do understand we need to go deep on occasion to keep the D on its heels).  That lessens the chance of our QB throwing a pick and increases the chance of getting a decent result (i.e. first down, TD, etc).  But admittedly, that just my non-expert opinion.

I agree high percentage plays, or checking down when the defense dictates it are useful in certain situations.

However, making plays that will get you downfield, when they are there to make, is what makes great QBs great.

[StephenDavis]

This article is a joke. To be honest handling our QB situation is a lose, lose. It did look like Gruden was forcing Robert to throw from the pocket in game one which didn't work. You could see in the Jags game before the injury that Gruden changed things up so Robert would be successful.

I see where you're going, and statistically I would agree; you are right.  Less number of plays can decrease the chance of a turnover; and deeper plays do get you into scoring position faster.  But only when you complete the pass.  The deeper the throw, the lower the percentage of completion, no?  How about the short pass to Garcon that led to the long TD? We sure weren't protecting a lead then. IMO, that's what we should be doing.  Short, high % stuff to get the ball in our playmakers' hands and let them do what they do (though I do understand we need to go deep on occasion to keep the D on its heels).  That lessens the chance of our QB throwing a pick and increases the chance of getting a decent result (i.e. first down, TD, etc).  But admittedly, that just my non-expert opinion.

We don't have a choice but to throw short. Our o-line can't pass block and now teams have shut down our running game.

[ThomasRoane]

To think we could have hired Seattle or San Fran's o coordinators who have experience developing talent similar in skillset to rg3, but they weren't allen's friends.

 

Yeah, because San Fran's and Seattle's offenses are doing so good now.  The R/O is not sustainable.  You left out the fact that Wilson and Kap are built like football players and Robert is built like a track star.  Hell, he wasn't even hit when he was hurt!  And for the great play that people said he was making Cooley said he missed a much easier throw earlier in the pocket.

 

And before you go on about Seattle's Super Bowl I'll point to Seattle's Defense, Special Teams and Beast Mode.  They lost some pieces already (Browner and some D-line) and have fallen off.  Traded Percy away and now look at their offense.  Statistics are on the side of pocket passers for longevity.  Even Steve Young had to change his game to win a Super Bowl.  A QB should only run as a last resort.  Period. 

 

If Jay resists the urge to start Robert then I'm even more certain he's the coach we need. 

[wrecker]

This article is a joke. To be honest handling our QB situation is a lose, lose. It did look like Gruden was forcing Robert to throw from the pocket in game one which didn't work. You could see in the Jags game before the injury that Gruden changed things up so Robert would be successful.

We don't have a choice but to throw short. Our o-line can't pass block and now teams have shut down our running game.

It has just as much to do with our TEs not sealing the edge and our RBs not picking up blitzes.

I am really missing CP right now.

[Bang]

Cinci fans wanted gruden out too after how he calls games in the playoffs. 

 

I think this is what is known as "First world problems"

 

they got their wish, and now the Bengals offense is as pedestrian as can be.

 

In the last 3 weeks, the Bengals were shut out in Indy, tied at home by the Panthers, and blown out on the road by the Pats.

They have won 3 games this season, which is 1better than the Redskins, and their offense is averaging 0.7 points per game better, and in terms of yards the Redskins are ranked 5th, while Cincy sits middle of the pack at 16th.

thankfully for them, the AFC north looks pretty mediocre, so they may have some postseason aspirations. But if you're looking at their production offensively, it's decidedly average.. 16th in rushing, 16th in passing.

In the last 3 weeks they've been outscored 97-54.. practically doubled.

Andy Dalton isn't throwing picks, (3) but he's not throwing TDs either, only 6 in 6 games. 

Cousins has thrown 9 picks, but he's also thrown 10 TDs. And he is clearly an inferior player making bad decisions based on inexperience.

People will say "AJ Green is out" to which I'd say AJ Green's absence is not why you get shut out, and point to the Redskins list of injuries.. specifically the starting QB. (The Lions aren't losing without Megatron, right?)

 

Gruden has not been perfect. But these games have not been lost due to play calling or anything I'd consider to be his "fault" at this point. He's a young coach trying to turn around a ship that stubbornly refuses to turn for anyone.

 

Fact; there is no way in the world anyone can make any definitive decision on a coach based on 6 games with a starting QB hurt and an injury list a half mile long..  unless they wish it to be known that they should not be taken seriously in these discussions. 

 

 

~Bang

[Fat Stupid Loser]

I'm going to write a poem to best illustrate most of the media attention this team gets, and the fan nonsense it generates.

 

Shut the hell up

You give me a headache

Your idiotic over-analysis means nothing

so shut the hell up

you know-nothing twit.

 

 

~Bang

Is that a Haiku? I don't know, I was a science major.

[Laron Burgundy]

Yeah, because San Fran's and Seattle's offenses are doing so good now. The R/O is not sustainable. You left out the fact that Wilson and Kap are built like football players and Robert is built like a track star. Hell, he wasn't even hit when he was hurt! And for the great play that people said he was making Cooley said he missed a much easier throw earlier in the pocket.

And before you go on about Seattle's Super Bowl I'll point to Seattle's Defense, Special Teams and Beast Mode. They lost some pieces already (Browner and some D-line) and have fallen off. Traded Percy away and now look at their offense. Statistics are on the side of pocket passers for longevity. Even Steve Young had to change his game to win a Super Bowl. A QB should only run as a last resort. Period.

If Jay resists the urge to start Robert then I'm even more certain he's the coach we need.

I'm confused, are you saying their offenses are doing poorly? If so I'm just going to be over here laughing for a bit.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Yeah I'm confused about the "Kurt" thing too. Is it a joke? If so, what does the joke mean?

[ThomasRoane]

I'm confused, are you saying their offenses are doing poorly? If so I'm just going to be over here laughing for a bit.

 

Did you not watch the 49ers offense vs Denver?  Did you miss the Seattle game vs the cowpukes who have a defense that is not really that talented and rely on their offense to keep them off the field?  Were you sleeping when Orakpo and other Redskins defenders portrayed Ray Charles in charge of force responsibility vs Wilson?   NFL DC's have figured out how to minmize the effectiveness of the R/O.  Sure, there will be blips where it still works.  But as I said - if you read my post- it is not sustainable long term.  Hell, RB's can't take the punishment that NFL defenders dish out.  You rarely see a RB play at the top of his game now for more than 3 years.  Yet you expect a more frail QB to do so? 

[Laron Burgundy]

I think this is what is known as "First world problems"

they got their wish, and now the Bengals offense is as pedestrian as can be.

In the last 3 weeks, the Bengals were shut out in Indy, tied at home by the Panthers, and blown out on the road by the Pats.

They have won 3 games this season, which is 1better than the Redskins, and their offense is averaging 0.7 points per game better, and in terms of yards the Redskins are ranked 5th, while Cincy sits middle of the pack at 16th.

thankfully for them, the AFC north looks pretty mediocre, so they may have some postseason aspirations. But if you're looking at their production offensively, it's decidedly average.. 16th in rushing, 16th in passing.

In the last 3 weeks they've been outscored 97-54.. practically doubled.

Andy Dalton isn't throwing picks, (3) but he's not throwing TDs either, only 6 in 6 games.

Cousins has thrown 9 picks, but he's also thrown 10 TDs. And he is clearly an inferior player making bad decisions based on inexperience.

People will say "AJ Green is out" to which I'd say AJ Green's absence is not why you get shut out, and point to the Redskins list of injuries.. specifically the starting QB. (The Lions aren't losing without Megatron, right?)

Gruden has not been perfect. But these games have not been lost due to play calling or anything I'd consider to be his "fault" at this point. He's a young coach trying to turn around a ship that stubbornly refuses to turn for anyone.

Fact; there is no way in the world anyone can make any definitive decision on a coach based on 6 games with a starting QB hurt and an injury list a half mile long.. unless they wish it to be known that they should not be taken seriously in these discussions.

~Bang

Hate to burst your bubble, but the reason Cinci has 3 wins is because of their defense, you know, the same unit that carried them to the playoffs while Jay was there. Their offense is still better than 2 of the 3 years Jay was there.

[bradboyd80]

Yeah I'm confused about the "Kurt" thing too. Is it a joke? If so, what does the joke mean?

Well apparently we are the joke.  They call him "Kurt" to annoy people like us who keep calling them out on it (just plain stupid imo).  I honestly thought people were that ignorant and didn't know the name of our QBs. 

[Bang]

Hate to burst your bubble, but the reason Cinci has 3 wins is because of their defense, you know, the same unit that carried them to the playoffs while Jay was there. Their offense is still better than 2 of the 3 years Jay was there.

 

I'm not blowing a bubble. There is no bubble when your team is trotting out its third string QB because the starter is out and the 2nd stringer fails. And this is why a writer is an idiot for trying to make an assessment in week 7.

I've heard a few folks complain about Gruden and point to cincy and say the same thing,, fans didn't like him. OK, i hear it, and please don't take this personally, but if you look at this site and then you factor that fact in, then it becomes pretty clear that fans really are clueless most of the time, and one of the things they do consistently is cry for heads to roll.

 

Cincy's defense is woeful, for sure, and it has been ranked in the bottom part of the league for several years.. yet in the last 3 seasons they still went to the playoffs.

So if it isn't defense, and it isn't offense, then their kicker must be one badass MFer to send them to the playoffs three straight years.

 

we should definitely sign him.

 

Gruden might ultimately not be the guy, but there's no way of knowing it now regardless of past stats. 

 

~Bang

[Taco Bell]

It shows, to me, that these guys have to earn their keep around here. Same thing with him benching TyPo imo. That's a breath of fresh air.

But i do get what the author is saying about possibly lowering the confidence in Robert. I'm afraid he may already be fighting some demons because of his injuries, and if he happens to take all of this the wrong way, i can see Robert taking another step backwards. It's already gonna take time for him to develop as a pocket passer, and the last thing he needs is to be afraid he's gonna get benched.

Honestly, i think that could become a reality if Robert doesn't progress fast enough. Jay doesn't strike me as one with a lot of patience.

 

I totally agree that this could potentially be a problem, but I think in alot of ways the RG3 situation worked itself out by cousins playing so poorly.  There was that brief moment in time that Cousins looked like he could steal the starting job, and Gruden even publicly acknowledged it, but that was when Cousins was putting up stats during the Jags and Eagles games that even RG3 could see would merit a demotion if Cousins continued to perform that way while putting up wins.  Obviously, 4 days later, that bubble was burst lol... 

 

I think if anything, and maybe I'm spinning it too positive, but Jay probably showed RG3 that he's REALLY about the results, and it's truly a meritocracy in his program.  Maybe this will cause RG3 to improve in practice, which could end up showing results in games.  

 

I don't think Jay has a ton of patience either, but he also seems to be one of those coaches that knows how to "play the system" properly given a certain context.  I think he knows now that once RG3 is back he's now the guy he's gotta ride with bar none the rest of this season, because he already got lucky in allowing Cousins his fair shot (and this was only because of an injury, we don't truly know if RG3 would have been benched like shanny did it in 2013).  There shouldn't be a worry anymore of a Typo->Compton type change in Rg3's mind, at this juncture, because *now* Jay knows what he's got behind RG3, and that's two backup QBs (unless some sort of hell freezes over and Colt becomes some sort of demigod on the football field, NOT happening just stating it for completion lol), so he knows that it's in everyone's best interest to see if the guy that has all the tools in the world can develop into the player we all want him to.  

 

I think the decision is taken out of all of our hands now, and I think if anything, the pressure should be taken off RG3 in that specific regard.  Again, this might have been different if Kirk played better than he did, but he earned his way back to the bench, no two ways about it.  And hey, in the same way QB controversies are built on circumstance, we luckily played our way out of one and can now let the guy that should have been the focus all along truly get his time to develop without that extra factor being there. 

[WFC]

I believe you are not getting it. The primary purpose of offense is to score points....as many and as often as possible.

Keeping the drive alive has more potential for increasing our chances for turn-overs and penalties more than points.

The bigger the chuncks of yardage the offense can produce does three things.

1. It gets you closer to the goaline/scoring situations faster.

2. Moving the ball with less plays minimizes the chances of a drive stopping penalty or turn-over.

3. Keeps the field position in your favor.

The short high percentage stuff is more for when you are protecting a lead and eating up clock time, which we rarely have that luxury.

Although I understand what you are trying to say with your post, and it makes sense, there is a guy in Denver named Manning getting it done with a short passing attack. If you have receivers that can get good YAC, which I think we do, it is a proven formula that can work. It also helps the Oline problems because you get the ball out quick and they don't have to block as long. Just trying to point out you can definitely win with that short attck game.

Oh one last thing you do still have to take shots downfield even using the short pass mentality.

[Brokenstriker]

_{complete and unmitigated rubbish}

 

_{Gruden hasn't ruined anything ...}

_{- Griffin's injury was simply the result of playing a physically demanding sport and being representatively competative as an NFL professional ... so not Gruden's fault for allowing Griffin to earn his HUGE paycheck doing the job he sought out and cherishes}

_{- Cousins and McCoy are back-ups ... hardly matters who plays as long as they play well (enough) ... so no controversy}

_{- Cousins value to the team was already completely trashed by his unfortunate tendancy to stress out and throw stunningly bad passes into the hands of journeyman defenders (so no trade value impact)}

_{- Cousins hasn't done anything to make the case to be the next Redskins QB ... so no impact to the future QB situation}

_{- Gruden is not a "first year sideline general" he is a 10 year veteran professional football head coach with a perfect (until now most likely) record of making the playoffs and at least one league championship}

_{- putting Cousins in the game is not "flip-flopping" given Griffin couldn't play, and putting McCoy in to replace Cousins isn't "flip-flopping" given Cousins was not being effective and had multiple games to make improvements (changing back and forth and back and forth might qualify as flip-flopping ... but there hasn't been any of that)}

_{- putting Griffin in once he is healthy won't qualify as flip-flopping since Griffin is the starting QB and presumably has impressed the coaches as the best QB on the roster}

[Aireskoi]

Lets not forget to factor in what the defense is taking away with their alignments on any given play, or during a game.  Short passes will start to get jumped and the deep stuff and double moves open up...assuming protection holds up.  

 

Balance is key because were not good enough in any area to abandon another.  We can't line up and smash anyone all day, and we can't pass block 50 times a game either.

 

The line we have was good at 1 thing, and the guys who used to run that are gone.  Bobby Turner's role should be mentioned here as well.  He was running that for Mike for years, and he is gone.

 

I saw the similarities with Zorn's blending the old run game with his WCO like many others, but hoped for the best.  

 

That is to say I hoped for my 2012 RG3 back, the one that shot rocket freaking lasers all over the field.

[darrelgreenie]

First, I need to say the article in the OP is terrible.

 

I don't think Jay has mishandled the QB situation the way the article/OP claims.

I do think Jay stuck with Kirk too long. And I also think that Jay should have played Griffin a LOT more during preseason but that's just me. I didn't understand why Kirk got so many reps during preseason that could have been used to help Griffin get ready in Jay's offense.

[Hail4Life]

I think the article is trying to make a big stink about nothing.  Cousins has been struggling badly and he was headed down that bumpy road against Tennessee so I applaud Gruden for making a change TO WIN THE GAME!  That is the point of all this.  Gruden is trying to figure out what works, that is why when RG3 started and the offense struggled in Houston he changed up the game plan for Jacksonville.  The only way to see what you can do with a player is to put him out there and try some things.  Just because he says one thing doesn't mean he has to stick with it all season when it obviously isn't working.  Gruden is trying to find a winning formula and I can't fault him for that.