Puma Kane Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Agree for the most part. Just don't necessarily agree with the O lineman. If we draft a quality starter in the first round (preferably RT, but that's just me), then we don't necessarily need to hunt agressively for backups as I think Long, Leribs, and Moses could probably be decent backups. Hell, Long and Leribs could/should probably start right now. The jury is out on those guys, but you always bring in guys to challenge what you already have in place. Being complacent is what we need to get away from. It's time to try what the other 31 teams are doing. There's nothing to it but to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Outside of Kerrigan and Hatcher, nobody on our D is indispensable. Likewise I would not mind upgrading everyone on our OL not named Trent. What I dream of this offseason is what I hope for every year -hiring a QUALIFIED GM (not just someone with a family name) and having him hire the staff. Delenda Haslett est. I see no reason to toss Chris Baker or Keenan Robinson and attitudes like this making overlooking glaring needs excusable. "Oh sure we really need this spot but that spot can use a little upgrading. Fix the foundation in one area before slapping the paint on another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradboyd80 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The jury is out on those guys, but you always bring in guys to challenge what you already have in place. Being complacent is what we need to get away from. It's time to try what the other 31 teams are doing. There's nothing to it but to do it. Oh I agree. Just want to see us draft talent, rather than bring in a bunch of free agents to compete for the starting job. Envious of the Cows I guess.....drafted blue chippers and are reaping the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Someone said Williams did not do a good job? Are you kidding me? How about hiring Lombardi. You know, the guy who's name is on the trophy. He turned this team around the first year he coached. Then he got us GHA and he made Sundays fun for a long time. I suppose, but wasn't that like nine years into his time as owner? The Skins got really good when Cooke took over as owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 EBW was a minority stock holder under Marshal and he took over the team in 65. Remember, VL was winning championships in Green Bay in the mid 60's so you were not getting him to leave that. VL retired for 1 yr. when he saw the packers getting old and it took EBW to get him to D.C. which to me was a feat before 69. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 A playmaking safety, a cover corner, interior OL, and a RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Trade our Top 3-5 pick back a few spots, because our top need will either be C, FS or SS. Those are guys you can grab justifiably in the 8-15 range, if there's an option there .... but unless there's a Sean Taylor reincarnated that I haven't heard about ... you aren't spending a Top 3 pick there. If you find a team that needs to move up for a player of need where we already have depth (WR, QB most notably) ... then you make the move. If you can pick between 8-10 and also have a pair of 2nd and pair of 3rds, you do it. As of right now, I would say ... Trade from 3 to 8-10 and get a 2nd and 3rd 1. FS 2. C 2. CB And the rest is contingent on our defense next year. Getting a stud Center would solve a lot of our OL issues, and if you expect Long/Moses to be long-term answers at RG and RT, then you stick with them. And if that's the case, then I think the only offensive player you can draft is a Center. The rest should be defense, and that will depend on whether we go back to a 4-3 or stick with 3-4. And I honestly have no idea how any of our current players fit into a scheme-change, so that might mean wholesale front-7 changes. If we switch to a 4-3 ... I would imagine we might need to invest in LBs since Kerrigan/Murphy would likely move to DE. A couple of the mock drafts I have seen so far: Walter #1 has us going OT, CB, S with our 1st, 2nd and 3rd Charlie Campbell has us going CB, S, OG with our 1st 2nd and 3rd Bleacher Report has us going S in the 1stFrom what I'm reading ... Bama's Landon Collins is one of the best S to come out in the last few years and has the ability to play both safety positions. It sounds like that SHOULD be our guy. Again, if we are picking #1-3 overall as we very likely could be ... that would likely mean a trade back a few spots to get him. I'd be okay with that. If he's our top target and we can trade back and get him as well as accumulate some picks, you do it. He's been going to the Skins in these mocks (which before this week was 6-7 overall) and a couple had him going in the 10-12 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The Skins current cap for 2016 according to that site is at 74 million, less than half of the projected cap for that year and at only 42 million for 2017 Yep. Without Griffin, Williams, Kerrigan, Morris, Orakpo, Robinson, and whatever FAs and 1st rounders we add under contract. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Disagree bout QB ... Skins need to get a new one ... I like guys over 6" 4" ... like Mannion, Halliday, Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yep. Without Griffin, Williams, Kerrigan, Morris, Orakpo, Robinson, and whatever FAs and 1st rounders we add under contract. What's your point? Well the point is that we have some serious flexibility with our roster going forward. Which is good in the sense that, if you need to overhaul your roster, you can. I.E., you switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 ... you don't have too many big-money guys committed to the old system. Which might be a reality this off-season ... Barry Cofield is likely a candidate for release ... as is Stephen Bowen ... so you would have plenty of money to go get some system-fitting players and decide whether you want to invest in Kerrigan (yes) and Orakpo (no). Going into an off-season with $75+ million in salary cap and a Top 3-5 pick in every round of the draft gives you a GREAT opportunity to START your rebuild. The biggest and most glaring issue with that is that ... well .. I don't trust anyone in position to make decisions to make the right ones. Disagree bout QB ... Skins need to get a new one ... I like guys over 6" 4" ... like Mannion, Halliday, Winston. No. Just, you can't. In theory, the Redskins might need to invest in QB. But not this off-season. You use this off-season to start building a defense and an OL. If Griffin proves incapable in 2015, then I don't doubt you will have a chance at a QB in 2016. But if you are picking in the Top 3 this year, you have to trade back or address other issues. Griff is still the franchise QB. You ride that until you can't anymore. As long as we aren't paying him $18+ million a year, you see what he can get you. And right now we aren't there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hire a mafia hitman to take out the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yep. Without Griffin, Williams, Kerrigan, Morris, Orakpo, Robinson, and whatever FAs and 1st rounders we add under contract. What's your point? You really think we'll spend 75 million on retaining people in one year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You really think we'll spend 75 million on retaining people in one year? No way. Trent is still gonna be under contract, but a re-sign will drop his cap number most likely in 2015 since his last year is inflated right now as is. Kerrigan will cost some $$ ... but Rak ain't coming back. You have that option on Griffin but I'm pretty sure all involved understand that won't be picked up and Griffin has to understand that. This is playing out to be a perfect scenario of wait it out, and if anything, you franchise him when the time comes (assuming he's playing well). Invest in him long-term after 2016 when he proves he can play healthy from the pocket. Morris ... as much as I love him, RBs just don't make a ton and we could probably get away with a RBBC or paying him $4-5m a year (fair deal). I think that just about covers it ... and I'm pretty sure that doesn't come close to eating up that $75m. Or even 1/3 of it. Now if you brought this up over the summer I would have agreed. But right now, as far as 2015 investments ... I only see Kerrigan as the only one who needs to be paid this off-season. Trent is a no-brainer but he's already on the books for like $14 million in that last year of his contract, so any new deal he gets will pay him below that, so if anything, Trent will save money in 2015 under a new deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 A larger/better scouting department Better defensive game planning replacing at least half of the o-line Better QBing during crunch time (which may partly be taken care of if we address the line) Defensive backs Better fan attitude (hey, at least that's something we can address) More players with "it" At one point, RGIII had it. He was so magical in 2012 that when he went to a Wizards game the Wiz broke a thirty game losing streak. Can RGIII reclaim his itness? DJax seems to have "it" Garcon and Morris seem to be losing "it." I don't think Jordan Reed has it, but he has something. On D, I don't know that we have any players that have "it" We have good players, but no one who lives up to the moment. Where's that timely sack? The game changing fumble/interception? Hell, where's the tipped ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You really think we'll spend 75 million on retaining people in one year? Well the point is that we have some serious flexibility with our roster going forward. Which is good in the sense that, if you need to overhaul your roster, you can. I.E., you switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 ... you don't have too many big-money guys committed to the old system. Which might be a reality this off-season ... Barry Cofield is likely a candidate for release ... as is Stephen Bowen ... so you would have plenty of money to go get some system-fitting players and decide whether you want to invest in Kerrigan (yes) and Orakpo (no). Going into an off-season with $75+ million in salary cap and a Top 3-5 pick in every round of the draft gives you a GREAT opportunity to START your rebuild. No, the point is we'll have LESS cap room than we could have had if we had structured contracts well. And we won't because we spent that money to buy this craptasm of a team. You guys want to argue that it's a good thing that we have spent future money for the crap we watched yesterday, go ahead. But I'll just say that's insane and leave it there. We'll have LESS room than we should have, and that's WORSE. Nothing else should need to be said about it. You guys are essentially arguing that having less means nothing as long as you have SOME. Which is like saying it's smart to burn a $100 bill as long as you have 3 more of them. I've had this conversation too many times and I don't feel like doing it again. I'll just leave it as less cap is worse. You want to pretend that's controversial, go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetAlfred Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Who exactly are we sucking for in next years draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've had this conversation too many times and I don't feel like doing it again. I'll just leave it as less cap is worse. You want to pretend that's controversial, go ahead. I think with $75m committed in salary ... which quickly becomes $60 million in committed salary if/when you release Hall, Cofield and Bowen ... will equate to $65-80 million in cap space. But you're saying cap space is bad? I think it's better than having $20 million in space and $120m in committed cap for a crap product. At least this crap product isn't heavily represented in 2015 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Its going to take a few years of good drafting and smart FA moves. We are in this craphouse for a while boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The cap figure is low only because there aren't a lot of starters signed through 2016, and almost nobody signed for 2017. 30M for 2014 seemed like a lot until we started re-signing starters. $70M isn't a lot to replace/re-sign an entire OL (including LT), QB, RB. SS, FS, DE/OLBx2, plus add some depth. To clear this up, Trent should already count about $13-14 million against the 2015 cap. That's the last year of his deal, and a new long-term contract would likely lower Year 1 to $10-11 million. So if anything, that 2015 number should go UP as you sign Trent ... but yeah beyond 2015 it isn't on the books, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Just realized someone was throwing out that $75m in cap commitment for 2015 ... but I must have misread that ... as they were referencing that being the cap allocation for 2016, with $42 million allocated for 2017. Right now we have $122m allocated for 2015 .... meaning we have $17m in cap room. That quickly grows as you release Bowen and Cofield, but definitely not the sort of flexibility I had misunderstood there to be and indicated in my posts above. With the logical cuts and "roster fillers" and one-year contract guys ... looks like we could find ourselves in a similar position to last year. About $45 million in cap space with 31 "53 man roster" type players on board. That does include a hypothetical extension of Trent Williams and a $7m salary allocation to Kerrigan (Which I assume is the 5th year guarantee). It's way too early on to start those sort of roster projections, but the gist of it is that the Redskins should have some cap space to work with. But I agree, this is a multi-year rebuild. BUT the biggest factor, QB, is one that just isn't delivering right now. We've seen in the past that good QB play can overcome almost everything. So I'm all for building the OL and rolling with Griff as long as we can ... and building a defense, long-term, through solid drafting over the next few years. Breeland/Amerson are good starts ... as are Robinson, Kerrigan, and hopefully Murphy. Would be nice to add some more pieces this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I think offseason plans are pretty heavily contingent on how our young guys develop - Moses, Long and Breeland in particular, though W. Compton, Thomas (and Davis/Robinson), Kearse/Geather and LeRibeus factor in as well. As of now, top priorities seem to be S, corner, RT and G. Next would probably be ILB, dline, maybe TE and safety/corner again. A solid (or better) safety and corner, plus competition for G/RT would go along way. Pick a couple of those up in FA, trade back slightly in the draft and we could (have the ammo to) make a difference at our glaring weak spots. We've got a lot of talent on this team, but as they say, you're only as good as your weakest link... and our handful of weak links are really holding this team back (Chester, Polumbus, Biggers, Meriweather and probably Riley). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 the only guys not signed for next year are Rak, Polumbus, Merriweather and Clark and Jenkins. Three of those guys could be let go without an attempt to re-sign. Hopefully by then we won't need to re-sign an entire line. in 2017 Moses and Long, and hopefully a couple draft picks would still be on rookie contracts. Same for secondary players That would be interesting if 2016 was next year, as 2016 has a lot of cap room, correctly stated by your post. 2015 doesn't have a lot of cap room. Coming up to re-sign in 2016 will be your franchise QB, franchise RB, and franchise LT. To name a few. I'm not looking forward to a OL with Moses and Long on it. That's just wishful thinking, not based on anything that they've done on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinWill Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 1. New GM 2. Brings in his own coaches 3. Jeimis Winston if he declares for draft I'm done with our QB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 That would be interesting if 2016 was next year, as 2016 has a lot of cap room, correctly stated by your post. 2015 doesn't have a lot of cap room. Coming up to re-sign in 2016 will be your franchise QB, franchise RB, and franchise LT. To name a few. I'm not looking forward to a OL with Moses and Long on it. That's just wishful thinking, not based on anything that they've done on the field. Current CBA gives first round draft picks a fifth year team controlled contract option therefore RG3's contract will not be an issue until 2017. Trent Williams needs an extension next year to lower his 2015 cap hit, meaning it won't be a problem in 2016. That leaves only Morris. As for Moses and Long if you don't believe the Skins are going to hit on draft picks taken at appropriate spots; both fell in their commonly suggested draft slots; then who can they hit on. Those kind of dismissals mean you shouldn't bother to talk rebuild because a rebuild will never happen. The wrong GMs will always draft the wrong players after the wrong scouts tell them they'll be perfect for the wrong coaches' schemes. And forget about after Snyder too. He's such a terrible owner he'll take the wrong offer when it's time for him to sell the team Just realized someone was throwing out that $75m in cap commitment for 2015 ... but I must have misread that ... as they were referencing that being the cap allocation for 2016, with $42 million allocated for 2017. Right now we have $122m allocated for 2015 .... meaning we have $17m in cap room. That quickly grows as you release Bowen and Cofield, but definitely not the sort of flexibility I had misunderstood there to be and indicated in my posts above. With the logical cuts and "roster fillers" and one-year contract guys ... looks like we could find ourselves in a similar position to last year. About $45 million in cap space with 31 "53 man roster" type players on board. That does include a hypothetical extension of Trent Williams and a $7m salary allocation to Kerrigan (Which I assume is the 5th year guarantee). It's way too early on to start those sort of roster projections, but the gist of it is that the Redskins should have some cap space to work with. But I agree, this is a multi-year rebuild. BUT the biggest factor, QB, is one that just isn't delivering right now. We've seen in the past that good QB play can overcome almost everything. So I'm all for building the OL and rolling with Griff as long as we can ... and building a defense, long-term, through solid drafting over the next few years. Breeland/Amerson are good starts ... as are Robinson, Kerrigan, and hopefully Murphy. Would be nice to add some more pieces this off-season. the decent things about the kind of injuries the Skins are suffering is many of the guys who will be cut will already have a roster spot filled. Bowen and Cofield have essentially already been replaced. Chester's replacement should be on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 We all know the Dallas offense is clicking right now ... but what about their defense? I know their defense isn't exactly the best around, but they were supposed to be historically bad. What happened? Because I would look to them as a model not only for the offense ... but for the defense too. If you can take a defense filled with a bunch of has-beens and no-names and UDFAs mixed with 2-3 good players, and make that a serviceable defense, then I want to copy that model. If it's simply about X's and O's then ... go get a DC that's worth a damn. And build where you are strong ... the Offense. It might even be time to move on from Alf. I know that's sacrilegious but the guy is a system back. He has no home-run speed. He has no impact on the passing game. We need someone like Forte/Murray who can and will play 3 downs if necessary. We've been trying to target that change of pace back for some time now and we know you don't need to invest a high-round pick, but I'd like to see us continue to find a guy who may even take over for Alf at some point. I'm also a bit concerned that our organization/ownership structure is going to prevent us from ever bringing in a legitimate GM/Head Coach. The name-change complicates it even more. I'm worried we may be treading into Cleveland Browns territory or Oakland Raiders territory in that regard. And once you settle into that situation, your issues become much more than players and play-calling ... and I really fear we are in some deep **** here. It's to the point that I am actually starting to wonder if this team, long-term is one that I want to attach my fanhood to. I've been raised on the Skins and I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but there is just so much dysfunction in Washington at every level and my fanhood has taken such a hit these last few years, I wonder if, as my long-term plans do not involve living in DC, my fandom for the Skins ends up dissipating. My dad grew up a Browns fan but has lived in DC since the early 80's. He's a die-hard Skins fan now. If it happened to him, it may happen to me, eventually. As long as Snyder is the owner and this culture permeates the team and culture, it's just mind-numbing to consider the long-term implications. I've just tried to pretend they're not true or can be overcome. But I'm starting to think they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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