Dan Snyder may have changed, but his head coach hiring formula hasn't. Will the results be the same?

[Destino]

He inherited Turner and Robiske was a temp so throw them out.  Look at his choices since then. 

 

Schottenheimer - Established.  Proven.  Old.

Spurrier - First time NFL head coach.  Offensive minded.  Disaster. 

 

Do it again! 

 

Joe Gibbs - Established.  Proven.  Old. 

Jim Zorn - First time NFL head coach.  Offensive minded.  Disaster. 

 

It will work eventually, Do it again! 

 

Mike "Literal red skin" Shanahan - Established.  Proven.  Old.  

Jay Gruden - First time NFL head coach.  Offensive minded.  Disaster?

 

After the sack of Landover by the Giants I've noticed that the blame has moved off of the field and onto some of the coaches and executives.  It reminded me of Snyders hiring pattern and made me wonder if it really could happen again.  I figured we'd averted disaster with Gruden because Shanahan had already fallen on that particular grenade but... is this headed towards another Spurrier/Zorn disaster? 

 

Here's hoping they get Haslett out of here and force feed Gruden a competent defense before we're all talking about Bill Cowher.  I like Gruden and dammit if any team is due some good luck it's us.  Someone toss a bobble head into a volcano or something, there must be a way to appease the football Gods and break out of this cycle of pain.       

[SkinsFTW]

All anybody had to do was look at Haslett's defenses rankings over the previous 10+ years back in 2010 when he was hired to know how this was going to end but to keep him on for the next attempt at not being a complete cluster**** is just mind numbingly moronic. (Didn't Snyder say like 10 years ago that he learns from his mistakes? Haha, which ones? )

 

But hey, lets believe in these guys. They know what they are doing. Not that any of them have done it anywhere else before but lets just suspend disbelief for a while (hey they just signed 2 big name players) and it'll all just magically work out......Hmm.

 

And this is after firing Marty for Spurrier and the annual Snyderatto FA show, turning Gibbs into an "Average Joe", the Epic Zorn debacle and lets not forget the Dream Team.

 

It wasn't after winning 3 Super Bowls which is where Dallas is at with Jerriatric Jones. There is no track record of success. The track record says get in the bomb shelter.

 

I'll believe we have a functional front office when i see it. It's still the same thing in a more presentable package. Now the mouthpiece can actually form a coherent sentence when addressing the fans. Bravo!

 

[SWFLSkins]

Who was Jackie Chan Alex? 

 

 

 

[chipwhich]

Here is a secret for all of you guys, I say it as often as can.  Shhh say it quietly so everyone can continue to pretend they don't hear it.  Our problem is not our head coaching.  We can hire anyone and the results will continue to be the same until we do 1 thing.

[knowledge316]

Main problem is Snyder. He refuses to follow the formula for NFL success and hire competent football minds to do their jobs. This organization needs to clean house from top to bottom when they make their next coaching change. Everyone from President/GM to Scouting Department and any ties to any previous coaching regime should be fired. Need to bring in a football minded GM, hire better scouting department, and go from there. 

 

This farce Snyder puts out every year isn't going to work. Bruce Allen can be a president, but he has no business being the GM or in the replay booth helping out. The scouting department is atrocious. There's not much player development either. 

 

The results speak for themselves.

[SkinsFTW]

This organization needs to clean house from top to bottom when they make their next coaching change.

 

Snyder won't put himself completely out of the loop though. That only lasted for 1 year with Schottenheimer and even though all the signs were pointing to success the next year he was still **** canned immediately following the season.

 

The clown show of Snyderatto was preferred despite never winning a thing.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Here is a secret for all of you guys, I say it as often as can.  Shhh say it quietly so everyone can continue to pretend they don't hear it.  Our problem is not our head coaching.  We can hire anyone and the results will continue to be the same until we do 1 thing.

 

Although we continue to be miles apart in my belief that Allen has FULL control over the football side and lil' Danny isn't involved there at all; we do agree that until a PROPER FOOTBALL GM is hired, our problems will continue to haunt us.

 

Hail.

[DC9]

It's been beat to death.

 

The problem is not the head coaching hires... the problem is the ability of the ownership to pick out an executive to run the team.  He's never picked out a good exec in any business decision. 

And I like Dan.  I think we are actually lucky to have him as an owner.

[SkinsFTW]

Although we continue to be miles apart in my belief that Allen has FULL control over the football side and lil' Danny isn't involved there at all; we do agree that until a PROPER FOOTBALL GM is hired, our problems will continue to haunt us.

 

Hail.

 

You really think that Dan Snyder, who knows for a fact that he has more experience doing things like choosing draft picks is going to just sit there silently while Allen decides everything? Snyder was the mastermind behind Snyderatto, afterall.

 

By the way, if it's true that Allen is doing the draft then 2014 was his first time making a draft pick ever.

 

Everybody knows Gruden did it in Tampa and Al Davis did it in Oakland.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You really think that Dan Snyder, who knows for a fact that he has more experience doing things like choosing draft picks is going to just sit there silently while Allen decides everything? Snyder was the mastermind behind Snyderatto, afterall.

 

By the way, if it's true that Allen is doing the draft then 2014 was his first time making a draft pick ever.

 

Everybody knows Gruden did it in Tampa and Al Davis did it in Oakland.

 

I think no matter WHAT Danny does he'll NEVER be forgiven for his past sins by large portions of this fanbase so it's immaterial to even try defend him.

 

But yes, I hand on heart believe he has NOTHING to do with the football side and has developed into a pretty darn good owner. Save for the one thing he has left to do. Hire a proper football GM. That said, this new model is the closest thing to that he's done so he's moving in the right direction.

 

I appreciate I'm in a VERY small minority here but I don't have the issues with the owner many others have.

 

Hail.

[Burgold]

The oddest thing is that Snyder is a very loyal man who is also seemingly impatient.

 

He doesnt' have the patience to develop rookies preferring a free agent strategy, but seemingly really puts his faith in his management.  His GMs and scouts stay with him a long time.  Coaches and players come and go... and I would argue since Gibbs, even coaches have been given the time they deserve.

 

The question is, can Allen pay off that loyalty.  Can he put together a team of scouts, coaches and players who can begin to climb out of the mess that this team has been in more or less for twenty years.  Does Allen even deserve that chance?

 

Think of how many coaches Cerrato survived or how many administrations Scott Campbell and Morroco Brown served under.  It's odd.  It also might be telling. The philosophical disconnect that says... SKILL PLAYERS, SKILL PLAYERS, SKILL PLAYERS... is still pretty dominant while the lines haven't been ignored, but certainly have gotten nowhere near the love.  One could even argue that Coefield, Baker, Hatcher, Bowen, etc. were all B players when they were signed here.

 

The philosophy seems to be that if you are good enough in the talent, the star positions, then the rest will resolve itself.  It's a formula which has served us poorly for at least a decade.

 

The question is, can Snyder or the team around him learn a new basic philosophy.  I've seen enough of RGIII to know he can be very good.  Same with Garcon, DJax, Roberts, Morris, etc.  We have the talent.  We lack the muscle, the ugly blue collar non-jersey sellers (although I proudly still wear my Jacoby jersey).

 

So, I think the issue is really much more philosophy than personell.  We need to stop going on wide receiver binges.  Whether it's Moss, Randle El, and Brandon or Djax and Roberts, or that doomed 2nd round.  The team has what it needs in terms of ball handlers.  What we need is people off the ball.  Likewise, I even think we are pretty good in pass rushers, but we don't have the blocker absorbers.  We need the glue guys.  We have plenty of sparkles.

More, I'd argue that competent minds have been hired.  Marty, Gibbs, even Shanahan are more than competent.  Allen is more than competent.

 

Therefore, I think it's philosophy.  I think it's choice.  It's chasing iron pyrate hoping to strike it rich on gold instead of digging wells for water and farming.

[Rskins06]

I think it is to early to judge the hiring of Jay. We all know the results of the past, however, I do believe the Redskins are better set now than before in reference to structure. I could (and often am) be wrong but still early with the Allen/Gruden era.

[Bantu]

It's been beat to death.

The problem is not the head coaching hires... the problem is the ability of the ownership to pick out an executive to run the team. He's never picked out a good exec in any business decision.

And I like Dan. I think we are actually lucky to have him as an owner.

Wow, talk about conflicting statements. I've never bought in to the ridiculously dumb argument about how lucky we are to have an owner who cares so much and is willing to spend money and do whatever it takes to win. I'd rather have an owner who doesn't practice running a franchise in any way like Snyder. The results are all the evidence I need.

Sorry, but anyone who has felt LUCKY for having Snyder as their favorite team's owner must be smoking some good s**t. Speaking of which could you pass to the left, please? :-)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

Sorry, but anyone who has felt LUCKY for having Snyder as their favorite team's owner must be smoking some good s**t. Speaking of which could you pass to the left, please? :-)

 

I can think of two owners within the division I'd take him over for a start.

 

Hail.

[Burgold]

I can think of two owners within the division I'd take him over for a start.

 

Hail.

Better not be Mara!  Despite Snyder's evils I would not want this team run by a cheater.  Mara is filth. That leaves you Jerry Jones who's about as bad as Snyder and Lurie who is also pretty terrible, but at least knows how to field a winning team.

[JSSkinz]

This all goes back to Marty, he was a great coach who didn't take spit from owners which is why he no longer has a job.  You know what he did at Cleveland and he built San Diego into a winner while AJ Smith managed to dismantle the team.

 

We started 0-5 and finished 8-8 and were ready to progress as a football team.

 

We should have never let him go, it could have changed the course of history for this football team.

[DC9]

He inherited Turner and Robiske was a temp so throw them out.  Look at his choices since then. 

 

Schottenheimer - Established.  Proven.  Old.

Spurrier - First time NFL head coach.  Offensive minded.  Disaster. 

 

Do it again! 

 

Joe Gibbs - Established.  Proven.  Old. 

Jim Zorn - First time NFL head coach.  Offensive minded.  Disaster. 

 

It will work eventually, Do it again! 

 

Mike "Literal red skin" Shanahan - Established.  Proven.  Old.  

Jay Gruden - First time NFL head coach.  Offensive minded.  Disaster?

 

I'll add a little to this.  All of the stories about how Marty went out were upsetting.  I wish he would've stayed a little longer, but that's neither here nor there.

 

But at the time, Spurrier was a "hot" hire.  What his biggest problem was (aside of pass pro, laziness, and press bafoonery) was that he was picking almost everyone.  He didn't have that strong FO person helping him out and we ended up with a bunch of Gator never-was'.

 

Gibbs was also a good get.  Say what you want, but two playoff seasons in four years is the best stretch anyone has had here since he left the first time.

 

After Joe left, NO ONE wanted to coach this team.  Zorn had never called a play in the NFL and it was basically him by default... cause no one else wanted the job.  And Zorn had Cerrato in there....

 

After Zorn, Dan realized he'd need to concede a lot to get anyone worth a **** into this dumpster fire.  In comes Shanny... with too much power.

 

Now after Shanny, maybe for the first time since Norv Turner was fired, we had a legit job opening up for grabs that was probably the 2nd or 3rd most attractive opening to anyones out there this past offseason.

 

I like Jay, he was second on my list behind David Shaw, and I think he'll be fine ultimately.  But I also think the organization needs to do the responsible thing and get him some help in the personnel department.

 

So in a sense, you can't compare him to Zorn.  At all.  You can loosely compare him to Spurrier in terms that he was a "hot" guy on many folks lists, but you Grudes has had success at this level before.  Spurrier didn't.  We just need to let him grow and I think it's unfair to crucify him four games into his career.

[Thinking Skins]

Although we continue to be miles apart in my belief that Allen has FULL control over the football side and lil' Danny isn't involved there at all; we do agree that until a PROPER FOOTBALL GM is hired, our problems will continue to haunt us.

 

Hail.

I still don't know what people want when they say a football GM. I think Allen has a good resume to be our GM and deserves some time to sink or swim. Whether you want to count the years under Shanny against Allen or not, this team is doing things a lot different under Allen than we were under Vinny. It was so PEACEFUL during free agency to know that we were going to let guys go out of the building after they heard our best offer. Some people like to act like Allen's job is to order the chips and dip for the meeting, but Allen said in the press conference that he has final say, but he will listen to our scouts.

Heck, as much as I want to get mad at the draft for not picking up DL, we did spend 2 of our top 3 picks on OL. It'd be interesting to hear who wanted Grant (I'm guessing a scout), Lache (I'm guessing Gruden), Bolster, and Hocker (i'm guessign Gruden), but those are low round draft picks and while it would have been nice to get players to develop on the DL or at ILB, we can't say they were really impressed wit the other guys.

I will say that Snyder probably had more input in the Jackson signing, but even that contract is reasonable - not like the ARE or Lloyd contracts we signed before.

My point is that this organization is no longer the place to go to get a big paycheck, and that's thanks to Allen. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I think fans are too quick to dismiss him because he was never a scout. Ozzie wasn't either and he's probably the best in the league.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The infrasturcture of this team sucks

 

From the "GM" to the skeleton scouting department that somehow let John Schneider and Trent Baalke leave, to a subpar practice facility, to no use of analytics, and clearly subpar strength and conditioning, no coach can succeed with the situation he walks into.

 

Snyder could build a scouting empire and an FO juggernaut with 1/4 of the guaranteed money he gave Haynesworth

[knowledge316]

@Thinking Skins, Bruce Allen doesn't have the football acumen to be a GM. I don't think anyone in the NFL will tell you that he's a football person. His track  record has been bad. He also retained Haslett. He also didn't spend money on a safety this offseason. His first choice at OL was Luavo, a low rated FA. According to many experts, Murphy was a reach at 2nd round. Also, Murphy is a luxury pick for a 3-13 team that needs starters and not backups for one of the team's strengths (Kerrigan and Orakpo). 

 

Also, the scouting department isn't very good. Those positions need to be upgraded. That's the reason why we can't get players to develop. 

 

Again, Allen has no business in player acquisitions as he isn't the brightest of minds when it comes to football. He is known around the league as a cap guy for a reason. I'm fine with him being the president, but this organization need a football GM to make the hires across the board. 

[Thinking Skins]

@Thinking Skins, Bruce Allen doesn't have the football acumen to be a GM. I don't think anyone in the NFL will tell you that he's a football person. His track  record has been bad. He also retained Haslett. He also didn't spend money on a safety this offseason. His first choice at OL was Luavo, a low rated FA. According to many experts, Murphy was a reach at 2nd round. Also, Murphy is a luxury pick for a 3-13 team that needs starters and not backups for one of the team's strengths (Kerrigan and Orakpo). 

 

Also, the scouting department isn't very good. Those positions need to be upgraded. That's the reason why we can't get players to develop. 

 

Again, Allen has no business in player acquisitions as he isn't the brightest of minds when it comes to football. He is known around the league as a cap guy for a reason. I'm fine with him being the president, but this organization need a football GM to make the hires across the board.

WHere are you getting this from, other than media personalities like Chris Russell? He won NFL executive of the year when he was in Oakland, so he must be doing something right. Comparing that Oakland team to the ones they've had since he left and you can easily see his impact.

In 2013, he was a finalist for the executive of the year award (for the 2012 draft and season), but it was won by the Colts GM.

Skins fans want to act like Allen's some scrub with no experience who we picked up at a BINGO game, there's a reason he was hired in Oakland, there's a reason he was hired in Tampa, and there's a reason he was hired here. People want to act like he's Vinny version 2.0,but that really shortchanges his experience and what he's done for this organization.

Is he the best GM in the league? I won't even try to argue that. But I think he's far from the problem with this team.

[Bishop Hammer]

Bloody hail how did I miss this obvious pattern?

[Destino]

It's been beat to death.

 

The problem is not the head coaching hires... the problem is the ability of the ownership to pick out an executive to run the team.  He's never picked out a good exec in any business decision. 

And I like Dan.  I think we are actually lucky to have him as an owner.

 

I suspect Dan has an elitist tilt to him that causes him value his top paid execs and big names too much compared to the people, and the details, that actually make the machine go.  The GM matters little, when it comes to choosing players, without a well funded and talented scouting department underneath him actually finding the talent.  I think players care more about facilities than the media ever talks about.  The team waited a decade for a bubble, the team was eating hot dogs, the field turf is a nightmare, and I remember hearing bad things about the weight room a while ago. 

[Bantu]

I can think of two owners within the division I'd take him over for a start.

Hail.

Wow, being better than Jerruh is about as low a bar as you can set. If that's all it takes to keep you satisfied then more power to you, man. However, it's going to take a little more to impress me than that.

[Boss_Hogg]

The infrasturcture of this team sucks

From the "GM" to the skeleton scouting department that somehow let John Schneider and Trent Baalke leave, to a subpar practice facility, to no use of analytics, and clearly subpar strength and conditioning, no coach can succeed with the situation he walks into.

Snyder could build a scouting empire and an FO juggernaut with 1/4 of the guaranteed money he gave Haynesworth

I also can't shake the feeling that Snyder is meddling. Just a horrible...sick...feeling.