Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[ghosti]

DING DING DING...the "Inane Phrase of the Day" has just been spoken!!

 

Finish the quote… I’d give you my NFL rewind ID and password.  Nice try though… :-)  I wouldn’t want to watch them either, they were pretty painful.

[Mr. Sinister]

I hate everything...

[steve09ru]

DING DING DING...the "Inane Phrase of the Day" has just been spoken!!

"Playing catch up" and "garbage time stats" are not the same thing. Please tell me you know that...

that's why in the 1st post, I didn't say 'garbage time stats' I said 'when down 2+ scores. You assumed it was eat as 'garbage' - but whenever your playing from behind, you're stats are going to be inflated more heavily and we found ourselves in holes lost year due to the inability to have execute offensively in 1st halves of games.

[Newera]

I would say Cousins Gave us part of that division title that year too remember??  Plus, our D stepped up big time the last 6 games.  And that was 2012… Today is 2014.. People change and some get better (cousins), some get worse (griffin) with time.

And, the eagles are not what they are today.

[SkinsFTW]

It wasn't that the special teams gave up a touchdown?

 

The Special teams giving up a TD isn't exactly a valid excuse when you put up one single scoring drive in the entire game.

 

It works much better when you put up 34 points though.

 

Either way, one QB is injured and can't possibly play for another month at least and the other has put up 37 points a game.

 

No QB that is putting up 30 a game gets replaced. If Cousins starts putting up 6 points or even 10 or 16 or 17 or 6, which are all of RG3's last 5 games then I'm sure he would be at risk of getting replaced.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

that's why in the 1st post, I didn't say 'garbage time stats' I said 'when down 2+ scores. You assumed it was eat as 'garbage' - but whenever your playing from behind, you're stats are going to be inflated more heavily and we found ourselves in holes lost year due to the inability to have execute offensively in 1st halves of games.

 

I know, but you were responding to my post ABOUT "garbage time stats". I never said anything about the stats Griffin accumulated while the team was behind by more than 1 score...that tends to happen with 3-13 teams lol...they get behind a lot. But "playing catch up" should not be seen as a criticism against Griffin. And the stats he gets while trying to get the team to a win should not be blown off as somehow less valid than stats accumulated during a win.

The Special teams giving up a TD isn't exactly a valid excuse when you put up one single scoring drive in the entire game.

 

It works much better when you put up 34 points though.

 

 

It does when it comes to momentum. The Skins had just scored a TD and were ahead. Momentum was now on their side.

 

Then the extra point was blocked.

 

Then the next punt by the Skins was blocked.

 

Then the blocked punt was run in for a TD.

 

Momentum: Texans.

 

Claiming that isn't a "valid excuse" in a tight defensive game where neither offense scored more than one TD is...curious, to say the least.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Keim just put up his piece about Kirk's 2nd half struggles. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/11250/under-review-kirk-cousins

 

 

 

Last season, Cousins completed 25-of-46 passes against rushes of five or more, with three touchdowns and two interceptions for a 77.9 passer rating, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Also, in Cousins’ career, his numbers are much better in the first half -- it could be because of comfort level, game situation, defenses adjusting or whatever. 

His numbers have fallen off in the second half in other games, too. 

In his last five games, Cousins has completed 66-of-101 passes for 793 yards, four touchdowns and two interceptions in the first half. In the second half of those games, he’s completed 55-of-110 passes for 631 yards, four touchdowns and five interceptions. His first-half passer rating in those games: 94.2. Second-half passer rating: 60.8. 

It's a legitimate concern, the further from the script the game is the worse he performs.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Keim just put up his piece about Kirk's 2nd half struggles. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/11250/under-review-kirk-cousins

 

It's a legitimate concern, the further from the script the game is the worse he performs.

 

It could also be defenses adjusting to his game in the 2nd half and Cousins not yet able to overcome those adjustments.

[Dan T.]

The game of football is side to side, quick turns and stops… He can’t do that anymore.  He may be able to run straight ahead but how often does that happen without dodging someone??  Again, all you guys think he’s mobile like 2012 and i’m baffled I keep hearing the same argument from a bunch of you guys.

I guarantee that you are wrong that Robert Griffin III "can't run anymore."

[steve09ru]

I know, but you were responding to my post ABOUT "garbage time stats". I never said anything about the stats Griffin accumulated while the team was behind by more than 1 score...that tends to happen with 3-13 teams lol...they get behind a lot. But "playing catch up" should not be seen as a criticism against Griffin. And the stats he gets while trying to get the team to a win should not be blown off as somehow less valid than stats accumulated during a win.

It does when it comes to momentum. The Skins had just scored a TD and were ahead. Momentum was now on their side.

Then the extra point was blocked.

Then the next punt by the Skins was blocked.

Then the blocked punt was run in for a TD.

Momentum: Texans.

Claiming that isn't a "valid excuse" in a tight defensive game where neither offense scored more than one TD is...curious, to say the least.

you're right in that it all shouldn't but the first have offensive struggles as outlined above in our losses down play into the being down by 2 scores+ and having to play catch up. Granted it's not necessarily 'garbage' but can skew stats when the outcome is still a loss because offensive efficiencies dug a whole to play out of.

It's like me talking about a great job I did at work fixing an issue but ignoring the fact that the issue was caused by me, in part, in the first place.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

It's like me talking about a great job I did at work fixing an issue but ignoring the fact that the issue was caused by me, in part, in the first place.

Works for Andrew Luck, right?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

A bit more from Keim:

 

“I thought the pocket was excellent,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said. “He hurried some throws on his own thinking that the pocket was collapsing -- it wasn’t, and that’s just going to come with experience."

 

“He could have stayed in there and waited one more second, half a second for the guy to come open instead of rushing it, and that happened probably four or five times,” Gruden said. “That’s going to come with experience and playing and feeling the pocket. But overall, man, to throw for 400 yards on the road like he did, he did a lot of really, really, really good things obviously, and there are some things he can clean up.”

 

[...]Here are a few things I noticed in the second half against five-man rushes Sunday:

He did not step into his throws the same way he did in the first half -- too much arm in the final two quarters and not enough legs and hips. Too often he was not hit after the throw, which is why Gruden said Cousins had more time than he realized.

 

On a third-and-3 in the third quarter, Cousins hit his fifth step and slid to his left with pressure coming up the middle. DeSean Jackson was running a cross against Nate Allen. As Cousins stopped, he planted and threw back to the right for Jackson, but his feet were still pointing the other way and the ball was too wide.

On the interception, Philadelphia sent an extra rusher. The ball shouldn’t have been thrown, but it sailed a bit because Cousins did not step into it -- there was pressure at his feet.

On the final series, the Eagles sent an extra rusher on the final two plays. On third-and-11, Cousins looked left and threw back to the right -- all arm -- to Andre Roberts. There wasn't as much zip, allowing Brandon Boykin to break up the pass easily. On the next play, Cousins had a good pocket -- Helu picked up the blitz -- but appeared to rush his throw, which went behind Pierre Garcon.

 

Now...are we all "RG3 fanboys" for noticing the same things Keim noticed, even if we didn't have the all-22 film to breakdown? Or is Keim a Griffin apologist and fanboy as well?

It's like me talking about a great job I did at work fixing an issue but ignoring the fact that the issue was caused by me, in part, in the first place.

 

I'm not sure anyone, anywhere, has said Griffin did a "great job" last year. In fact, the ONLY thing I said was that the supposed "fact" that Griffin padded his stats in "garbage time" was proven false before. That's it.

[steve09ru]

Works for Andrew Luck, right?

and I'm in the camp that think the stats 'gw drives' is very misleading. Luck puts his teams in holes early by poor passes and decisions. But that's for the luck thread in ATL

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

and I'm in the camp that think the stats 'gw drives' is very misleading. Luck puts his teams in holes early by poor passes and decisions. But that's for the luck thread in ATL

Sweet, glad we can at least agree on something!

[Skinsinparadise]

It could also be defenses adjusting to his game in the 2nd half and Cousins not yet able to overcome those adjustments.

 

Could be.  One thing about Kirk that stuck with me in 2012 was how nervous he looked when he started against Cleveland.   I felt bad for him at the start.  He was throwing balls in the dirt. It took him a quarter to settle down.   And yeah I've seen players nervous in their debuts but Kirk really stood out as more so to me, than the previous debuts we've seen from rookie Qbs.   Also, after the Eagles game in one of the post game commentaries an ex-player talked about Cousins' footwork being off in the last drive, where it looked jittery.

 

I've read articles from sports psychologists about how some players perform and others don't under pressure, one article cited Jeter versus A-rod where the theory was upon interviewing people who know both very well that things slow down for Jeter in big moments, and his concentration rises whereas for A-rod he is consumed by the moment and what it means and his nerves get the better of him.  The theory is that there are some psychological differences for why players like lets say Montana is clutch and others not so much.

 

For the Cousins cult fans on this thread -- don't hit me here -- am not saying that Cousins isn't clutch.  My point is for me that's the main thing I want to watch going forward because for me in a small sample, I've seen some things that make me pause.  And no RG3 marching down the field against Baltimore into Baltimore territory, and Cousins throwing 2 passes including a toss to a wide open Garcon in 2012 doesn't allay those concerns.    

 

But am sticking to the idea that its small sample for Cousins, and we need that movie to play out on all fronts including whether he has that clutch gene.  We don't know.  But I don't agree with those that say shrug it off who cares, look at how well he played before that.   Keim's stats of Cousins mediocre 2nd half stats, the last drive against the Eagles, and just seeing how discernibly nervous he looked at the start of the Cleveland game  -- make me wonder and make me want to see more on that front.    If others aren't concerned that's cool.  Just saying for me, watching Cousins have a 4th quarter winning drive would do a lot to sell me. 

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Some of you Cousins haters are getting RIDICULOUS. I don't think you even realize the amount of cognitive dissonance you're engaging in. If RG3 had this game against the Eagles and lost you guys would be tripping over yourselves to anoint him the starter for the decade. I see so many people on social media picking at Cousins for the few mistakes he made but god forbid anyone criticize RG3 after that mediocre first game and last season

[hail2skins]

 

But lots of games to go. Tough ones. We'll see. Clearly Gruden doesn't think a permanent switch is off the table.

Be interesting to see if the "recency effect" comes into play at all when a decision is made (presumably at the bye week).  Of the next three games (NYG, Seattle, @AZ), two are at home but two come against tough defenses, while of the three following before the bye (Titans, @DAL, @MIN), two are on the road but on the whole are probably against weaker opponents than the ones we are about to play.  The ones right before the bye may afford Kirk a chance to make a great impression before decision time.

[steve09ru]

Sweet, glad we can at least agree on something!

which is why I looked at stats from the hole with rg3. If those resulted in wins, then I think you can take them into consideration more. It really comes down to situation. Imo, he can get to that level and possibly exceed cousins in that category but I've gone through to many ifs and just feel more comfortable with cousins at the moment. That doesn't mean we should get rid of rg3 or bench him necessarily but if cousins continues to play well then there should be open comp. Next year.

[dsciambi]

Well sure he can't run right now because he has a separated ankle.  But you are flat out wrong if you think he can no longer run.  I have no idea where you're getting that from.

 

Pretty sure that idea comes from the preseason and first two games of this season where, now without the knee brace, he was having a hard time outrunning linemen, much less linebackers and DB's.

 

Whether that's because he can't, we won't know for a while. But it doesn't look good. And you can't say that he wasn't trying, because there were several times in the preseason where he was fighting for meaningless yards (both due to it being preseason and not a difference in terms of first downs) and taking huge hits for no reason.

[StephenDavis]

Disagree all you want, but you've said nothing to show why a DC wouldn't fear his running while he was averaging 11 yards per run against the Jaguars.

 

They would love him to sit back and throw the ball? He was completing 77% of his passes for 7 yds/ attempt. This includes the "terrible"  Texans game and last game. And this is playing against the best defense we've faced thus far. You would have to assume a game against the Eagles would be equal or better, no?

 

At this pace, throwing the ball 48 times like Kirk, he would have had 366 yards passing. If you factored in his better accuracy (which I don't feel like doing) he would end of with even better yardage. The game would of course have gone differently since RG3 is much different than Kirk, but he still has been

 

Add to this the fact that he throws less interceptions than Kirk, why would any DC not fear him throwing the ball?

You just said Jaguars....

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Some of you Cousins haters...

 

DING DING DING...Another "inane Phrase of the Day" winner!!

 

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

A bit more from Keim:

 

Now...are we all "RG3 fanboys" for noticing the same things Keim noticed, even if we didn't have the all-22 film to breakdown? Or is Keim a Griffin apologist and fanboy as well?

What's that sound after this post that I keep hearing?

[Stefanskins]

Hi everyone. I've been a reader of Extremeskins for gosh 10 or 11 years? Is that right? Sheesh it seems like it was 2003 or close to it. When you get my age years blend together. Anyway, I'm glad that I'm able to chat with everyone now. About me -I have been watching our Redskins since before I can remember. Gifted down through generations. My Grandpaw was a Redskin. My Paw was a Redskin and I still have the two bar Sonny Jergusonesque Redskin lamp that was beside my crib.  

 

So, where to begin...

 

Before I thought we had a chance at RGIII I really wanted Kirk. He just reminded me of a young Montana. He was so smooth, calm and smart with his passes. I was delighted when he fell to us in the fourth round. But not nearly as excited when I found out we moved up to get RGIII!!! I like to gamble. I have three rules. Never bet for or against my Redskins. My heart gets in the way, never bet preseason and never bet on Kordel Stewart. Needless to say I rode RGIII and Baylor to a nice profit.

 

Anyway, I digress, A) I bleed burgundy and gold.   I've missed just a handful of Redskins games since '78 or '79.. on tv C) I still believe that RGIII has HOF potential, but D) Kirk Cousins is the real deal. 

 

Honestly, of all of the QBs I've seen come and go wearing our colors only a few have impressed me more than Kirk. So I would rank them as...  

 

1) RGIII - come'on people. he was everything we dreamed of and so much more...impressed? Hell yeah I was.. to tears of joy!)

2) Joe Theismann - Probably shoulda been number one... but losing to the Raiders still smarts.

3) Mark Rypien - only because of that unfriggin', shoulda gone undefeated, unbelievable Super Bowl Season... at the time who woulda     thought 20 some odd years later.. eh...

4) Billy Kilmer - was given a replica of his uniform for Christmas in '77. It was sweet.. helmet, shoulder pads, pants, jersey and socks! I still try to get as close to that uniform as I can when playing Madden. I'm sure my granddad and pops would have him higher but I can't recollect how impressed I was with him at age 6. I really just remember certain games.

5) Brad Johnson - 1999- 60.9 %  4005 yds 24 tds 13 ints - shoulda beat Tampa

 

That being said... the most impressed I've ever been with any QB or any football player on any level was that 2nd quarter...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

What's that sound after this post that I keep hearing?

 

 

And you know what's wild about Keim's write-up?...Many of the areas he critiqued Cousins on during the 2nd half are areas that make Griffin a playmaker.

 

Cousins throws wide of Jackson because he was throwing across his body and his feet weren't in the right direction? Griffin often makes throws like that on pure arm strength alone. Cousins threw too quickly and should have waited "one more second, half a second for the guy to come open instead of rushing it"?...Griffin has never been accused of throwing too quickly lol...he definitely would have waited that extra second. Cousins looked left and threw back to the right -- "all arm" -- to Roberts, but there wasn't enough zip, allowing the CB to break up the pass "easily"? Again, Griffin makes those "all arm" throws in his sleep, and is damn accurate while doing so. Keim said Cousins "did not step into his throws the same way he did in the first half -- too much arm in the final two quarters and not enough legs and hips."

 

When people talk about the value of "arm strength" they aren't just talking about how far downfield you can throw the ball. Griffin has the arm strength to make a lot of accurate throws when his lower body mechanics aren't perfect due to pressure, scrambling...hell, even due to dislocating an ankle while running or hopping around on one good knee in the last seconds of a tight game. It does lead to a confidence in his arm that is sometimes misplaced, though. Still, it's one of the things that sets Griffin apart and makes him worthy of development. Cousins' impressive play so far doesn't negate that. Both bring something to the table that the other doesn't yet. And in some instances, probably can't.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

I'm also probably more worried about the Giants game than a lot of other people. It will be the first time Kirk's starting against an opponent who has seen him before, unless you count the 9 pass(2 INT) relief stint against ATL in '12 as a precursor to his game last year. As good as we hear he is about preparation, how is he going to adjust to a defense that's already had a whole 60 minutes against him. How are they going adjust to him? It helps that they are a terrible team, but he was miserable the first time against them so I have my doubts. The short week doesn't make it easier, either.