Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[Califan007 The Constipated]

First of all, scanning the field left and right is not necessarily the same as coming out of a snap and angling 45 degrees to the right, looking at 1-2 reads, then bouncing to the left, and throwing to a location automatically without the receiver knowing, and the receiver still having his back towards the QB.  That's why I want to see.

Holy **** lol...you want to see that specific play and that play only?

You know what this is like?...It's like saying "I want to see Cousins start running to the left, then stop quickly and accellerate to the right, stiff arm a defender, then throw to a receiver with his arm at a 32 degree angle. I've never seen Cousins do that."

If someone came back with the example of Cousins hitting Hankerson almost perfectly in stride while running to the right on a bootleg and just over three defenders, I'm not sure the appropriate response should be "But was his arm at a 32 degree angle? And did he stiff-arm a defender?" lol...And for the record, he threw the pass to Garcon without Garcon first cutting to midfield. Was Garcon's back actually TO Griffin or was his side to Griffin? I don't know lol...Was his body at a 45 degree angle or a 25 degree angle? I don't know lol...I have zero doubt he could do it just as you described, though.

Again, I won't be able to find that exact play even if it exists (which it very well might). But with this video you can see his physical skillset and talents on display...and since he can and does scan the field left-right/right-left, since he can and does throw to a location before the WR/TE has turned to face him, watching this video I'm positive he can do both while turning his body at a 45 degree angle...actually he could to a 180 degree angle and deliver the pass perfectly:

 

[Bubble Screen]

Lol, you do realize that Andrew luck only put up 170 on their D, right?

The Eagles are 30th in pass D ONLY because of Cousins game. The Jags put up 240 passing. They'd likely be top 10 without Cousins day.

Infact they'd be better than 10th, we are 10th with 218 and theirs would be 205 without Cousins 427.

Hard to believe that so many Redskins fans hate their own QB so much LOL.

The Colts ran for 169 yards vs the Eagles. He only put up 170 yards, because that was the game plan that night. Btw, he had 3 TD passes with those 170 yards. Let's not leave out all the facts.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

It's funny because if you read anything I said you would see that the purpose of being specific is that I am explaining a play that I precisely enjoyed seeing that I don't think RG3 could do.  

No I get it, and your specificity is quite frankly insane.

[SkinsFTW]

 

 

 Yardage isn't what it used to be. It's about making the throws that count. He hasn't done that with any level of consistency yet.

 

 

Points matter though, right? Or not? He's made enough throws to count for 38, 41, and 34 points in the meaningful games he's played the majority of.

 

You arguing how he's not clutch yet in order to prop up a QB who hasn't put up the last 2 games worth of points in his own last 5 starts is comical.

 

Aaron Rodgers played in 8 games decided by a TD or less in his first season starting after sitting there watching Favre for 3 years and he lost 7 of those games. In 6 of those 7 he failed on final drives to put points on the board to get a win. In those close games he put up over 21 points 3 of 8 times. He was very un-clutch. Everybody knows how that one turned out. Cousins has put up 38, 37 and 41 in those 3 starts. Even add in the 3 from when Shanny was on the way out and the team in disarray and he's still put up 23+ in 5 of 6 games.

 

What makes this Cousins hate laughable is it's not like RG3 is benched right now. He can't play anyway but you're still too butthurt over Cousins playing well that you can't even pretend to be a Redskins fan.

The Colts ran for 169 yards vs the Eagles. He only put up 170 yards, because that was the game plan that night. Btw, he had 3 TD passes with those 170 yards. Let's not leave out all the facts.

 

Was it also part of the game plan to have the lead and still throw that INT when they could've just ran and kicked for a 10pt lead with 2mins left in the game???

 

You seem to have missed the part where the quote i was replying to was how the Eagles had the 30th ranked pass defense and it wasn't just due to Cousins game but then I proved that it was.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

You arguing how he's not clutch yet in order to prop up a QB who hasn't put up the last 2 games worth of points in his own last 5 starts is comical.

This thread is about "Cousins and the next few weeks" and I've discussed what I like about Cousins and what still concerns me about him. The only time I've remotely brought the other QB into the situation is to laugh at Taco Bell's extremely specific demands on tape he wants other people to pull up on a message board for him.

Prop up a QB? Again, I haven't once said Griffin's name until right now in this sentence. I'm not posting Griffin stats, hell I'm not even talking about Griffin. I'm talking about the guy currently on the field and what he can do to solidify himself as a starting quarterback in this league in my eyes. Which is play consistent football in the 2nd half and adjust to a team like the G-men who have already been able to get the best of him.

Anything you think I'm saying about Griffin by omission is purely in YOUR HEAD. Not mine.

 

[Taco Bell]

No I get it, and your specificity is quite frankly insane.

 

Actually, all I am doing is just writing the play down on paper to match what's on screen as well as I could, it's really not that complicated.  I don't have the play on video but am asking for a similar play, it's not the worst thing in the world I promise ... lol

 

And Califan, 

 

Look, I am not trolling you, nevermind Monkeyboy, I still can be proved wrong.  Yea, I really was asking for that exact type of play.  But just bear with me, yes I am talking specifics, don't let monkeyboy get in the way here.  I really do want to see, and am just asking, I never said if you didn't find one that all is lost or something, I was just asking.  

 

I really did want to see a play of that type, because, it was the combination of 45 degree pivot right (what I could mean here, is rather your basic right diagonal for throwing to a receiver on the mid to far right within 1-2 seconds, meaning it's a pretty considerable angle), and then after reading those two quick routes from whether it was a  WRx2, TE and WR or RB and WR (I don't remember), turning to wherever you throw a left out route.   It's gotta be around a 90 degree pivot.  And the throw was like I've said, thrown to a spot and thrown automatically, much in the same ilk that those two endzone throws you have as a GIF.  The throw is different obviously, but they are both automatically thrown to either be caught or incomplete.  

 

So, you have to combine quick reading, as well as pretty good footwork, and a nice anticipatory throw to top it off after reading the first 1-2 routes. The fact you have to switch sides adds to the difficulty I'd like to see because it adds that extra element of field awareness to just flip sides and throw to where you trust the receiver will be, it's not in your peripherals during the first two reads.

 

Come on cali, I'm not trolling, really, I just wasted all that time explaining it further lol 

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Actually, all I am doing is just writing the play down on paper to match what's on screen as well as I could, it's really not that complicated.  I don't have the play on video but am asking for a similar play, it's not the worst thing in the world I promise ... lol

You're asking other people who don't know you and don't have any obligations to you to comb through all 889 of a QB's regular season passes to hunt down the exact play you're looking for and post it on a message board.

That is insane, I don't know how you don't see this.

[Taco Bell]

You're asking other people who don't know you and don't have any obligations to you to comb through all 889 of a QB's regular season passes to hunt down the exact play you're looking for and post it on a message board.

That is insane, I don't know how you don't see this.

 

Honestly, I wasn't looking at it like that, because this isn't a play that should be unique if you have the capability of doing it, that's why I said I never saw RG3 do it.  If he could do it once, it would be used numerous times, as in 100s even.

 

Many QBs have done what I explained cousins to do in his play.  Reading one side, then pivoting opposite field, and throwing an automatic route, is not a rarity in the NFL. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

How's this?...Not exactly what was required but again, I'm not going through every play of his 2+ year career to find those specific parameters. This was from his first game against the Saints:

 

 

 

Body at 45 degree angle (from play action, though).

 

 

 

 

At this point Griffin is about to throw it to Helu who has his back to him, but he sees Helu is stumbling and looks like he's gonna fall. Griffin holds onto the ball in case he does.

 

 

 

 

Helu starts to get his footing.

 

 

 

Helu immediately turns he head upon gaining his balance, he knows the pass was supposed to have already been thrown. Griffin starts his throw at the same time.

 

 

Did Helu have his back to RG3 when he threw it? No, but again with Helu stumbling it made sense to not throw it as early as he had planned. No use throwing it to someone who's laying on their stomach.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Why would you even entertain him Califan? It's not going to work. He'll nitpick and find a reason it's not exactly what he wanted and even if it was, do you think it would satisfy him?

[Taco Bell]

How's this?...Not exactly what was required but again, I'm not going through every play of his 2+ year career to find those specific parameters. This was from his first game against the Saints:

 

 

Look, see, monkeyboy is overcomplicating it, this is great, it honestly isn't the play I'm looking for, and I'll explain, but it does bring up a point I'd like to give about RG3 as well.

 

I'm going to edit this post and add what I am saying, pretty much because I dont want monkey boy derailing this and I wanted to make sure you realized that, it's just going to take longer to type.

 

I think the point about RG3 needs to come first.   I never said, thought, or felt that RG3 was a poor decision maker. Meaning, your play is an example of many where RG3 exhibited smart decision making, waiting to throw until helu was ready again was smart of course.  He is very accurate when he knows where he's throwing, which I am just adding as a side to make sure it's known that he is actually very good at many things and executes things very well.  He won rookie of the year for a reason that year.  

 

Sure, as you said yourself the fact it was play action is different, and fairly I will say, because that means these routes were longer developing and more reliant on the current status of player positioning since play action is meant to make players freeze/bite etc etc etc.  My play in question is more reliant on pre-snap positioning since its 1-2 steps for the right side receivers and by then you gotta switch sides and throw an out route.  

 

Then, the other part is the footwork itself, which isn't as big of a deal but it was just something I liked.  I liked how the footwork had no wasted movement because it was reliant on timing and positioning.  Very mechanical in it's approach.  plant one way, turn, plant the other and throw.  

 

Bottom line about the play is that, I liked how it relied on quick reads, trust in the whole field since you have your back turned to it at one point,  and trusting how long you'll look one side of the field then having to turn to the correct spot and just throwing it to a location that you have assumed your receiver to be without having a chance to adjust your positioning or change your mind about throwing.  It was visual proof of sorts that Cousins has a good sense of timing on opposite field reads and trust in his anticipation without the need to see the receiver looking or even open yet.

 

And, like I said earlier with the overarching point, I never said RG3 was a bad decision maker I just don't see him able to handle more complicated plays and reads consistently, and I only say yet, not never, that's all. I know RG3 is still in a growth phase.  

 

For example, Eli manning was probably the reverse, where he could handle "pro level plays" early but was terrible with turnovers, and still has bad turnover years to this day. Or Peyton Mannings 28 ints rookie year but he was running a more "complicated offense".  Rg3 had 5, he clearly has decision making down pretty well when he's running an offense he's confident with.  

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Many QBs have done what I explained cousins to do in his play.  Reading one side, then pivoting opposite field, and throwing an automatic route, is not a rarity in the NFL. 

Then find it. It shouldn't be on someone else to track down what is so obvious and common to you.

[TSO]

Some great points about Kirk and his issues (that hopefully get resolved the more experience he gets) have been brought up in this thread.

My only problem is that it's come from certain posters who have either downplayed any critique of Robert's game or simply avoided its discussion in the past.

I can't help but wonder why now they're so interested in discussing all the detailed aspects of our QBs play? They were nowhere to be found before in these discussions and, if they did post, it was only to defend or minimize the significance of whatever criticism was rendered. Suddenly, it's important to them that everyone sees the issues we have with our QB when they never mentioned such things before.

Something weird is definitely going on here and I'm frustrated about it. I hate that Kirk is a victim because some have overly criticized Griffin in the past and took it to insulting levels. It now seems like Kirk's play is assessed within the framework of not allowing those people be right instead of just a Redskin QB playing pretty damn well for only his 5th start.

Shame. We should actually be enjoying ourselves right now as Skins fans, at least in terms of offensive production. Instead, we've allowed a very small minority who took it upon themselves to insult Griffin all the time to control the flow of discussion.

I'm shocked and saddened to see some of the more respectable posters here fall into this nitpicking. I hope it doesn't last all season. This will be one of my last posts on the matter so as not to add to it. Be happy, guys.

[UK Skins]

I agree with you TSD. I also happen to agree with the WP article, but unlike the Cousins haters, I think those criticism are correctable. It can't hurt Cousins that people have picked up on some specific things he is doing wrong.

 

I may be reading Califan's post immediately above wrongly but isn't that a classic example of Griffin staring down a receiver? He spends the entire time waiting for Helu to get up and doesn't once look to see if any of his WRs or TEs are open. THAT is a big problem I have with him.

 

I can't wait for the Giants game. It is huge and really a must-win game. It should also tell us a lot about Cousins which makes it fascinating from that perspective too. Sadly I can't watch it until Friday night (damn Thursday night games  )

[Bubble Screen]

Was it also part of the game plan to have the lead and still throw that INT when they could've just ran and kicked for a 10pt lead with 2mins left in the game???

.

Did you actually watch the game? Apparently not. Because Hilton was CLEARLY held on the play where Luck threw the INT. That's not on Luck. And they should have never been throwing it to begin with. As you mentioned, they only needed a FG to ice it.

[RED06]

See, this is where Cousins fans have an issue with RG fans.  These two paragraphs represent the problem.  

 

First paragraph:  you believe RG has more upside???  Based on what?  He can’t run anymore, he can’t see the whole field, he’s a defensive ends dream QB because he doesn’t release the ball (38 sacks taken in 2013 & 3 already this year) in time, he focuses on maybe 1 or 2 receivers and takes off.  He’s been hurt almost as much as he’s played.  You guys always end your arguments with Cousins is playing great/good but RG has more upside…  Just hogwash.  

 

Second:  When did RG ever have a game like Cousiins has had last week?  The rest of your comments that elude to his agility, please refer ^^^^ to my first paragraph comment.  

 

I think you RG fans keep forgetting…. he can’t run anymore.  He’s not agile and can barely outrun linemen.  Those thoughts in your head that keep telling you he’s a mobile QB, need to go away because he’s only going to get hurt again and again and again.  

Man, I have to say this, then I'm done. RG3 has only missed 4 regular season games before this year. Only 1 due to injury. That 1 was the Cleveland game. How has he been hurt as much as he's played?

[brandymac27]

I love Robert. Nothing would be more exciting to me than to see him back in 2012 form. My issue is that since then, he just hasn't been the same. Add the ankle injury on top of his knee, and I'm not sure he'll ever get back to that explosive, dynamic player.

We can can talk about whose ceiling is higher, but I think it's wishful thinking to say that Robert's is higher unless he makes a phenomenal comeback. IMO, he's the one with everything on the line. He has to prove he still has it in him.

It's way too early to say kirk has it or Robert is done. We just don't know. But I'm leaning more towards Robert won't be able to play at the same level he did in 2012 just based off of his injuries. It's not his fault. But when it comes time to figure out who the best long term solution at QB is, I'm scared to put all my eggs in Robert's basket. I know he was a phenomenal athlete, but I'm beginning to think we're living in the past holding on to hopes of what he was.

Like i said, it's still too early to tell. But look at it this way, if he were a FA and kirk was our starting QB, would you want to pick him up? Would you trust him to be able to get back to his old form? What would you give up for him?

I don't think i could trust him to get back to 2012 and stay healthy. I'd rather drive the 2012 Honda that's gotten me where i need to go with no problems than rely on the 2012 Mercedes that the engine and transmission have been replaced on, and is constantly having to get worked on.

[RED06]

I think "penchant" is the word you were looking for there.

And I have no earthly idea how you think RG3 is better than Kirk. You're living in 2012, buddy.

Just like I have no earthly idea why you think Kirk is better . Until I see a full body of work from Kirk Cousins (more than 10 games)! and I'm NOT talking about "GREAT" stats either. I'm talking about WINNING! I will gladly say Kirk is BETTER! But, until then and ONLY then......... I will still say RG3 is better. I've seen many flash in the pan in the NFL. Kirk may or may not be one. We'll see......

 

That will not be determined by beating the Jags, Browns and possibly a Giants team that sucks right now and trying to figure it out. Kirk has NEVER beat a team with a WINNING record, YET!

 

I've seen RG3 carry this team 6 straight wins to a division title (the first in over 10yrs as a rookie). I've seen RG3 win a shoot out when our defense couldn't stop anyone. I've seen RG3 make heroic throws on pure arm strength alone. I've seen A LOT from RG3 even last year on a bum knee that I haven't seen yet from Cousins. I've seen ATL get rid of Bret Farve and lived to regret it. I don't want to see that happen with the Redskins with RG3 because of fan and media pressure and it comes back to haunt us.

 

I know the NFL is LOADED with pocket passers right now, that get the ball out quickly etc etc etc. But 80% of them suck too. If Kirk proves that he's the man, then I will support him. But, NOT after a couple games in the BEGINNING of a season against horrible defenses and one horrible team that has sucked for many years called the Jags.

 

Sorry I don't share you'll excitement about Cousins. It seems this fan base is so use to losing that patience exits and we stay where we are because of hasty decisions and ooooooo he looked so good in 5-7 games! He must be the next greatest thing.........then in the 2015 draft with the first pick, Washington selects.......

 

RG3 has to learn something he's NEVER done. Combine that with what I saw in 2012 and 2013 (WITH A BUM KNEE) hmmmmmm. I want to FINALLY stick with SOMETHING and SEE IT ALL the way through and reap the benefits for years to come. If NOT then........who knows! But this infatuation with the back-up guy is insane........Washington fans, Washington fans boy oh boy........

 

And some say Dan Snyder is impatient? yeah ok........He has NOTHING on some of these fans.

 

Jay Gruden said it perfectly yesterday when asked about stats.......

 

He said "Statistics I've learned, don't mean squat" I would rather be last in everything and "WINNING" than 1st and 2nd in everything and "LOSING"! That's why I've said many times, Kirk has to WIN to be the starter! NOT just have GREAT stats and be losing in the process. And NOT finishing on game winning drives when HE has the chance, regardless of what happened the previous 3qtrs.

[RED06]

I love Robert. Nothing would be more exciting to me than to see him back in 2012 form. My issue is that since then, he just hasn't been the same. Add the ankle injury on top of his knee, and I'm not sure he'll ever get back to that explosive, dynamic player.

We can can talk about whose ceiling is higher, but I think it's wishful thinking to say that Robert's is higher unless he makes a phenomenal comeback. IMO, he's the one with everything on the line. He has to prove he still has it in him.

It's way too early to say kirk has it or Robert is done. We just don't know. But I'm leaning more towards Robert won't be able to play at the same level he did in 2012 just based off of his injuries. It's not his fault. But when it comes time to figure out who the best long term solution at QB is, I'm scared to put all my eggs in Robert's basket. I know he was a phenomenal athlete, but I'm beginning to think we're living in the past holding on to hopes of what he was.

Like i said, it's still too early to tell. But look at it this way, if he were a FA and kirk was our starting QB, would you want to pick him up? Would you trust him to be able to get back to his old form? What would you give up for him?

I don't think i could trust him to get back to 2012 and stay healthy. I'd rather drive the 2012 Honda that's gotten me where i need to go with no problems than rely on the 2012 Mercedes that the engine and transmission have been replaced on, and is constantly having to get worked on.

I can certainly  agree with you here Brandy. The other side of me hates the fact that RG3 plays like he's in high school sometimes in terms of the hits he allows himself to take. And I think we have coaches that will pull the trigger on Kirk and sit RG3. 

 

When he injured his ankle last, it was an oh NO play and a oh MY play at the same time! Rolling out, stiff arms a defender, comes down, dislocate the ankle, then fire a strike 8-10 yards down the field for the 1st down! It's that ability that makes him special. But, it's that same ability that drives you crazy about him and you're afraid to hedge your whole franchise on him.

 

Having a competent back-up is NEEDED for RG3 until he gets "it"! Not the football "it", but the take care of yourself 'it"! He seems like a hard head child sometimes with "NOT GETTING IT".........Coach Gruden says- RG we need you for the season, get down or run out of bounds. RG- Ok coach! Goes out and try and run through LB's just as fast as him!

 

There's been MANY games  I scream at him, DAMNIT man STOP DOING THAT CRAP! Injuries will take a toll on you fast in the NFL.......His hard head in terms of that, will determine his future. IMO

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Some great points about Kirk and his issues (that hopefully get resolved the more experience he gets) have been brought up in this thread.

My only problem is that it's come from certain posters who have either downplayed any critique of Robert's game or simply avoided its discussion in the past.

I can't help but wonder why now they're so interested in discussing all the detailed aspects of our QBs play?

 

I've always had a stance of "argue against the logic/viewpoint, not against the person using the logic or having the viewpoint."

 

Doesn't really matter to me "why" someone is interested in going into detail about a QB performance...I only care about whether or not what they say makes any sense and if there's anything tangible to back up their views and conclusions. This thread, however, is packed full of comments like "hater", "fanboy" and "bet you were happy we lost so you could come here and gloat" (arguing against the person, not their stance), claims like "If RG3 played we lose that game by 40 points!" (doesn't make any sense), and retorts that amount to little more than "watch the games" and "the eye test" (not backed up by anything tangible).

 

If you (or anyone) is anything like me, there's no way in hell you're gonna let that slide lol...

 

I don't know which posters you're referring to who had little to no desire to go into the details of Griffin's performances but are now putting Cousins under some microscope...I have stayed away from Extremeskins over the last two seasons, preferring to watch the games without the drivel of overly-emotional fans polluting the experience on a daily basis. There's a part of me that thinks I should have continued doing so lol...

 

And using that as a jumping off point, we're all apparently grown-ass men (or women) here, I assume. If so, then can PLEASE stop claiming people are "Cousins haters"? I don't think there's any Skins fan alive who isn't thrilled that he's been playing at the level he's been playing at these last two games. If there are "Cousins haters", in my mind they are those posters who took great pleasure during the offseason in proclaiming that Kirk's trade value was now in the sewer because he was "terrible/awful/a scrub" in all three of the games he started in 2013. In some sort of Twilight Zone-ish turn of events, I spent a lot of the offseason defending Cousins' play from last year against these posters and saying that his trade value has not tanked due to his potential still being high.

 

Now? Now, on this thread, I'm labeled a "Cousins hater" lol ....all because I refuse to take the stance that Cousins' play over the last two games says anything whatsoever about RG3 and his future here (or anywhere), and because I actually stick up for the guy instead of wanting to kick him out the door. So apparently I spent the entire offseason defending a guy I hate.

 

So I suggest we leave the use of "hater", "fanboy", and the like to the 15 year old interweb users and try to argue each other's stances and conclusions instead. Making a general comment/observation about the fickleness of fan emotion and fan perception is one thing...but dismissing an individual's viewpoints by trying to dismiss them personally should be seen as beneath everyone here.

[brandymac27]

I can certainly  agree with you here Brandy. The other side of me hates the fact that RG3 plays like he's in high school sometimes in terms of the hits he allows himself to take. And I think we have coaches that will pull the trigger on Kirk and sit RG3. 

 

When he injured his ankle last, it was an oh NO play and a oh MY play at the same time! Rolling out, stiff arms a defender, comes down, dislocate the ankle, then fire a strike 8-10 yards down the field for the 1st down! It's that ability that makes him special. But, it's that same ability that drives you crazy about him and you're afraid to hedge your whole franchise on him.

 

Having a competent back-up is NEEDED for RG3 until he gets "it"! Not the football "it", but the take care of yourself 'it"! He seems like a hard head child sometimes with "NOT GETTING IT".........Coach Gruden says- RG we need you for the season, get down or run out of bounds. RG- Ok coach! Goes out and try and run through LB's just as fast as him!

 

There's been MANY games  I scream at him, DAMNIT man STOP DOING THAT CRAP! Injuries will take a toll on you fast in the NFL.......His hard head in terms of that, will determine his future. IMO

I agree with you here. I'd love more than anything to have the 2012 Robert back. Omg, i remember watching that season opener against the Saints, iirc, and almost crying because I couldn't remember the last time we had such a talented leader and athlete on our team.

When he got hurt, it was devastating- for everyone. I can only hope that he can be that player that i watched destroy opponents with his arm, legs, and brain. I'm just scared the injuries have taken too much of a toll, and that he, like you said, will be too hard headed when it comes to protecting himself in the future. I'd HATE to see all that talent go to waste.

Here's to hoping he makes a complete comeback, and Kirk lights it up in meantime!

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

 I've seen ATL get rid of Bret Farve and lived to regret it. I don't want to see that happen with the Redskins with RG3 because of fan and media pressure and it comes back to haunt us.

 

 

 

 

How many serious injuries did Favre have to that point?

[RED06]

How many serious injuries did Favre had to that point?

What did it matter how many injuries he had at that point? The point is, they wasn't patient and let him go. You know the rest.........So I don't understand the point you're trying to make if you know the career Farve had AFTER he left ATL for whatever the reason!

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

What did it matter how many injuries he had at that point? The point is, they wasn't patient and let him go. You know the rest.........So I don't understand the point you're trying to make if you know the career Farve had AFTER he left ATL for whatever the reason!

 

My point is that you cannot compare the two because IF the Skins were to move on, I'm sure it would have more to do with RG3's injury history than his play unlike Favre. 

[RED06]

I agree with you here. I'd love more than anything to have the 2012 Robert back. Omg, i remember watching that season opener against the Saints, iirc, and almost crying because I couldn't remember the last time we had such a talented leader and athlete on our team.

When he got hurt, it was devastating- for everyone. I can only hope that he can be that player that i watched destroy opponents with his arm, legs, and brain. I'm just scared the injuries have taken too much of a toll, and that he, like you said, will be too hard headed when it comes to protecting himself in the future. I'd HATE to see all that talent go to waste.

Here's to hoping he makes a complete comeback, and Kirk lights it up in meantime!

I'm certainly on the same page with you Brandy. And I'm sincerely hoping that Kirk makes it VERY hard for him to win his job back. And I prefer RG3 over Kirk. But, he (RG3) needs to learn the lesson of "no matter how talented you are, it means NOTHING if you're NOT here contributing to the team"!

 

And I feel that he needs to earn his position back if Kirk is lightning it up. And I SINCERELY hope Kirk does light it up, because hopefully that means we're winning. I don't prefer ANY player over winning.