I want to sue the republican party for willful denial of scientific evidence about climate change.

[pjfootballer]

I did a little modelling for a political party several years ago (the McCain/Obama election) as a consultant.

Politicians/election modellers love people that don't vote. You can completely ignore them.

I honestly believe if the two major parties had their way, they'd have every election decided by 3 people (realistically, they'd like to have it decided by one person that they knew was going to vote for them, but the simplest model they could both agree on would be 3 people). One they were sure would vote for them, one they knew that would vote for the other guy, and third that wasn't sure.

All they have to do is figure out what the unsure guy doesn't like about the other candidate or the person that is going to vote for the other candidate and they'd win.

Go vote.

Vote a mixed ticket. Randomly select names. Vote for people that have no chance of winning. Write somebody in.

Nothing scares the major political parties more than somebody that is hard to predict and/or hard influence.

I've voted third party the last 2 elections and may continue to do so. Tired of the two party system.

[Larry]

I've voted third party the last 2 elections and may continue to do so. Tired of the two party system.

 

Unfortunately, (I assume) the two parties simply treat those as "didn't vote". 

 

Now, when you have a state where the vote is: 

 

Party 1: 49%

Party 2: 48%

Party 3:   3%

 

Then you'll see the two parties sit up and take notice. 

 

(Unfortunately, history says that what they'll do about it is "We need to make it tougher for third parties to get on the ballot".) 

[pjfootballer]

Unfortunately, (I assume) the two parties simply treat those as "didn't vote".

Now, when you have a state where the vote is:

Party 1: 49%

Party 2: 48%

Party 3: 3%

Then you'll see the two parties sit up and take notice.

(Unfortunately, history says that what they'll do about it is "We need to make it tougher for third parties to get on the ballot".)

True, but it has to start somewhere and I'm a rebel dammit!

[PeterMP]

Unfortunately, (I assume) the two parties simply treat those as "didn't vote". 

 

Now, when you have a state where the vote is: 

 

Party 1: 49%

Party 2: 48%

Party 3:   3%

 

Then you'll see the two parties sit up and take notice. 

 

(Unfortunately, history says that what they'll do about it is "We need to make it tougher for third parties to get on the ballot".) 

 

I can tell you in my limited experience (which partly did include some state primaries with a relatively large history of registered independents that have a history of voting for the non-2 major parties), there were questions related to is there anything we can do to pick up some of these voters without alienating our other voters.

 

It isn't uncommon for some non-major candidate issues to be taken over by one of the two major parties because they do spend some time thinking about how can we get those futures.

[Mad Mike]

what do you know....

 

Donations to House Speaker John Boehner questioned by Federal Election Commission | cleveland.com

 

 

Letters the Federal Election Committee sent Monday toFriends of John Boehnerindicated that donors including coal, energy, and gambling interests, exceeded contribution limits to Boehner's committee by more than $150,000.

Among the groups that were allegedly overgenerous to Boehner were Coalpac and Minepac, which represent the mining industry, as well as political committees representing the Exelon, Constellation and Luminant power companies, and the Ceasars and Penn National gambling enterprises.

 

Rep. John Boehner: Campaign Finance/Money - Summary - Representative 2014 | OpenSecrets

[alexey]

Show me science denial that is not based on financial or religious interests.

Edited August 14, 2014 by alexey

[No Excuses]

Show me science denial that is not based on financial or religious interests.

 

Well there are tons of people who continue to make claims about GMO's that are completely not true. There is also the anti-vaccination group.

 

I don't think either stem from financial or religious interests.

 

Regardless, there is an overarching theme for scientific denialism. People are completely OK with believing non-experts over people who actually do this stuff for a living. On top of that, they are too lazy to educate themselves and get their information from unreliable sources. It's why we have articles from TheDailyCaller posted in climate change threads instead of reputable scientific journals like Nature. It's also why people would rather believe Jenny McCarthy about vaccines instead of the entire medical community that says otherwise.

[Mursilis]

It's why we have articles from TheDailyCaller posted in climate change threads instead of reputable scientific journals like Nature. It's also why people would rather believe Jenny McCarthy about vaccines instead of the entire medical community that says otherwise.

 

Even Nature gets duped on occasion.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2014/07/02/controversial-stem-cell-creation-method-retracted/NiScjZhcPcaopw7ziGvWaN/story.html

I don't think it's science denial that we're seeing so much as it's science befuddlement from the average American.  There's so much information coming out these days, it's hard for Joe Sixpack to seperate the wheat from the chaff. 

[alexey]

Well there are tons of people who continue to make claims about GMO's that are completely not true. There is also the anti-vaccination group.

I don't think either stem from financial or religious interests.

Good points, I didn't think of that. Although anti-GMOs and anti-vacs can be kind of traced to financial interests (all naturals, alt medicine, etc.), I definitely see a healthy dose of straight up honest finance-free science denialism there. Edited August 15, 2014 by alexey

[alexey]

...

I don't think it's science denial that we're seeing so much as it's science befuddlement from the average American. There's so much information coming out these days, it's hard for Joe Sixpack to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

It's not just hard to form an informed opinion, it is also very humbling. Joe Sixpack does not like to be humbled.

[skins2victory]

Global warming   !!!! Yeah last winter was nice and warm!  I must have been imagining those huge snow storms that hit all across the country.  

[Kosher Ham]

I don't get headaches but this thread makes me close to getting one.

I have no understanding of why we have abundant resources that we ignore or deny.

[Kosher Ham]

EDIT: That was going to be a rant that is better served in another thread.

[Barney B]

Global warming   !!!! Yeah last winter was nice and warm!  I must have been imagining those huge snow storms that hit all across the country.

Exactly, I'm glad somebody else recognizes it. And you know what else? On my birthday, I must have been imagining that helium balloon that totally went up instead of down.

Gravity :D !!!!

[Bacon]

My feeling on this topic: the climate is changing in a manner that can be at least partially explained by human intervention. It is also worth taking the time and resources to preserve our environment. I'm not sure that the planet will be uninhabitable in 5-10 years like Gore figured though. There's a lot of sensationalism there, but a nugget of (inconvenient) truth as well.

 

So I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.

[Koolblue13]

Global warming   !!!! Yeah last winter was nice and warm!  I must have been imagining those huge snow storms that hit all across the country.  

Well, this settles everything. So much for Global Warming. What a relief.

[alexey]

Global warming !!!! Yeah last winter was nice and warm! I must have been imagining those huge snow storms that hit all across the country.

It's called climate change now, and yes they say extreme weather events will be more common.

On a side note... I am sure there is something you do for a living, or at least something that you know a bit more about compared to most other people. Now imagine somebody comes who know very little about that thing, and says: "lolerz, you got it all wrong!!!111"

[Burgold]

If just 6% percent of likely US Voters think Congress is doing a good job, why do Repubs trust politicians over scientists on climate change?

Edited August 15, 2014 by Burgold

[Mursilis]

It's not just hard to form an informed opinion, it is also very humbling. Joe Sixpack does not like to be humbled.

 

Certainly, there's a pride element which prevents people from admitting what they thought was true isn't, and people who are aware of their own ignorance don't like to be reminded of it, a further impediment to persuasion.  Still, I'm somewhat sympathetic to Joe Sixpack's plight - it's hard for the average person to know what to believe anymore when both sides can trot out "experts" who point to "studies" saying their side is the truth.  Heck, tobacco companies used to feature doctors in their ads.  It's really not that hard to deceive the public. 

[twa]

malicious is the politicization of science, ignorance is what most wallow in.

 

this thread is a perfect example 

[No Excuses]

It's called climate change now, and yes they say extreme weather events will be more common.

 

I wouldn't say the terminology changed. Human activities are indeed causing global warming, which is driving a rapid change in the Earth's climate.

 

And warming of the Earth will lead to increased cooling in certain parts. Increased melting of arctic ice weakens the gulf stream (the heat trapped in water carried by the gulf stream is one of the contributors to warming in Atlantic European states). You will see colder European winters as a result and stronger hurricanes in the Gulf (warmer tropical waters since heat is trapped).

 

There is scientific denialism on both sides of the aisle. The anti-GMO crowd has a major overlap (at least from my experience) with people who accept anthropogenic global warming. They are ok with accepting scientific arguments from one group of experts but not the others.

 

It all boils down to humbling and accepting that you're wrong. You can acknowledge that continued pumping of Co2 in the atmosphere is a problem but we are still a few ways from relying on clean energy sources. Yet we see full head on march towards lunacy and complete scientific denialism. You see it with twa in every climate change thread. Anyone remember Ken in the anti-vaccine threads? 

Edited August 15, 2014 by No Excuses

[alexey]

Certainly, there's a pride element which prevents people from admitting what they thought was true isn't, and people who are aware of their own ignorance don't like to be reminded of it, a further impediment to persuasion. Still, I'm somewhat sympathetic to Joe Sixpack's plight - it's hard for the average person to know what to believe anymore when both sides can trot out "experts" who point to "studies" saying their side is the truth. Heck, tobacco companies used to feature doctors in their ads. It's really not that hard to deceive the public.

I see social/community dynamics to be the key here. It's not like every Joe looks at experts eand makes up his mind. For most things, it is about community beliefs driven by leaders of those communities and leaders of groups with which those communities self identify. Edited August 15, 2014 by alexey

[twa]

 

It all boils down to humbling and accepting that you're wrong. You can acknowledge that continued pumping of Co2 in the atmosphere is a problem but we are still a few ways from relying on clean energy sources. Yet we see full head on march towards lunacy and complete scientific denialism. You see it with twa in every climate change thread. Anyone remember Ken in the anti-vaccine threads? 

 

Yet my proposals are sound and based on science and actually reduce co2 (and other real pollutants) while the 'experts' give me KYOTO dreams and fairy dust.

 

and of course help rather than hinder the economy 

 

I have faith reality will intrude .....as usual

[No Excuses]

Yet my proposals are sound and based on science and actually reduce co2 (and other real pollutants) while the 'experts' give me KYOTO dreams and fairy dust.

and of course help rather than hinder the economy

I have faith reality will intrude .....as usual

Yeah desalination is here to save all of us. Hooray for your genius, scientifically backed ideas.

[twa]

Yeah desalination is here to save all of us. Hooray for your genius, scientifically backed ideas.

 

about the level of discourse and honesty I've come to expect from the science crowd....kudos