Bruce Allen's Draft History

[Thinking Skins]

Every once in a while (particularly during the off-season), I find myself asking a lot of questions and doing a lot of research on my own computer to answer these questions. Most of the times this will just stay on my computer as stuff I'll use to win an argument or for future fantasy football or what-have-not.

What was on my mind today was Bruce Allen as GM. I know people say that he's not a personnel guy, but I was wondering how his drafts went. In particular I wanted to see if he favored any positions, any schools, and how these picks generally have done. So what I did is look at his draft history over the different time periods with teams and tried to get trends.

Employment History

Raiders (1995 - 2002)

Tampa Bay (2003 - 2008)

Washington (2010 - 2013)

Favorite Schools:

Florida State - 7 Players

Nebraska - 5

BYU - 4

Ohio St. - 4

Oklahoma - 4

Stanford - 4

Washington - 4

Position by Position Breakdown:

C: 5 centers drafted at average position 137 with an average career length of about 5 years or 63 games. There were two notables in this list with lengths of 9 (Barret Robbins) and 10 (Adam Tre) years respectively.

CB: 2 players drafted at average position 134 with one getting in 16 games in his rookie year and the other getting in one game.

DB: 23 players drafted at average position 155 with an average career length of about 4 years. or about 49 games. There were quite a few notable careers in this list including Aqib Talib (6 years, 77 games), Will Allen (10 years 147 games), Nnamdi Asomugha (11 years, 157 games), Phillip Buchanon (10 years, 122 games) and Charles Woodson (16 years 222 games).

DE: 15 players drafted at an average position of 116 with an average career length of about 4 years. or about 54 games. Notable careers in this list : Tyler Brayton (9 years, 121 games), Sam Williams (7 years, 84 games), Kenyon Coleman (12 years, 141 games), Lance Johnstone (11 years, 166 games).

DL: 1 player drafted at position 41 who's lasted 3 years so far and bee in on 28 games.

DT: 10 players drafted at an average position of 132 with an average career length of about 6 years and about 71 games played. Some notables here are Roderick Coleman (9 years, 109 games), Darrell Russell (6 years, 83 games), Grady Jackson (13 years, 185 games), La'Roi Glover (13 years, 193 games)

FB: Two players drafted at an average position of 80. Each played 7 years and 94 and 92 games respectively.

G: 10 players drafted at an average position of 90 with an average career lasting less than 4 years and about 44 games. Notables here Davin Joseph (8, 100), Jeremy Zuttah (6, 90), Mo Collins (6, 71).

K: One player drafted at position 17 Sebastian Janikowski (14 years 220 games)

LB: 14 players drafted at an average position of 125 with an average career lasting about 6 years and about 72 games. Notables here Eric Barton (12, 160), Barrett Ruud (8, 116), Adam Hayward (7, 107), Napoleon Harris (7, 100), Travian Smith (7, 84), Mike Morton (7, 103)

NT: 1 player drafted at position 253 Chris Neild 3 years 24 games.

OL: 1 player drafted at position 217 Maurice Hurt 3 years 21 games

OLB: 1 player drafted at position 119 Keenan Robinson 2 years 11 games.

P: 1 player drafted at position 142 Shane Lechler 14 years 222 games.

QB: 5 players drafted at an average position 103 with an average career length of 5 years with 23 games. Notables here are RG3 (2 years 28 games)

RB: 15 players drafted at an average position of 155 with an average career length of 2 years or 26 games. Notables Here are Cadillac Williams (7 years, 81 starts), Napoleon Kaufman (6 years, 91 starts)

RB-TE: 1 player drafted at position 228 Casey Cramer 5 yeas 36 games.

SS: 2 players drafted at an average position of 155. Both played 1 year and one got action in 11 games.

T: 11 players drafted at an average position of 134. Average career is 2 years or 28 games. Notables here are Trent Williams (4, 56), Jeremy Trueblood (8, 116), and Langston Walker (9, 120).

TE: 10 players drafted at an average position of 126. Average career is 4 years or 45 games. Notables are Rickey Dudley (9, 108), Alex Smith (9, 119), Doug Jolley (5, 74).

WR: 17 players drafted at an average position of 157. Average career is under 4 years, about 41 games. Notables here are Jerry Porter (9, 115), Michael Clayton (8, 95), Maurice Stovall (7, 81), Ronald Curry (7, 75),

Pick Distribution:

First Round:

DB - 5, DE - 3, RB - 2, DT - 1, G - 3, K - 1, LB - 1, QB - 1, T - 1, TE - 1, WR - 1

Second Round:

DE - 2, LB - 2, T - 2, TE - 2, WR - 2, QB - 1, C - 1, CB - 1, DL - 1, DT - 1, G - 1,

Third Round:

DE - 2, FB - 2, G - 2, LB - 2, TE - 2, WR - 2, C - 1, RB - 1, T - 2,

Fourth Round:

DB - 3, DT - 2, LB - 2, RB - 2, C - 1, DE - 1, G - 1, OLB - 1, QB - 1, SS - 1, WR - 1

Fifth Round:

DE - 4, LB - 3, DB - 3, WR - 3, DT - 2, G - 2, P - 1, QB - 1, RB - 1, T - 1, TE - 1,

Sixth Round:

RB - 5, DT - 4, T - 3, DB - 2, LB - 2, TE - 2, QB - 1, SS - 1, WR - 1,

Seventh Round:

DB - 10, WR - 7, RB - 4, DE - 3, C - 2, T - 2, TE - 2, LB - 2, CB - 1, G - 1, NT - 1, OL - 1, RB-TE - 1,

I'll admit that nowhere has Allen had the final say on personnel matters. When I figure out (again) how to post tables, I'll put the actual draft history up either here or as an image or as a link from another site.

Oh yeah, I was kinda annoyed by the different names for positions like DB/CB/SS or DL/DE/DT but I didn't want to try to clean it up. So I just used what pro-football-reference declared them as.

[chipwhich]

Pretty useless to me considering in Washington, and probably the majority of time in Oakland he wasn't the personnel guy.

 

Tampa was probably the closest, but I am not sure how many picks he made other than cleaning up their salary cap and working with his coaches.

[jflow78]

Bruce doesn't strike me as the guy who will be actually making the picks.  He strikes me as the guy who will go to Scott Campbell and ask, "Who should we pick here?"

 

Like chipwich said, in Oakland Davis made all the picks, in Tampa I'd assume Gruden made the picks, and Shanahan was the guy here, so this might be the first time we get to see how Scott Campbell actually is at scouting.

[Thinking Skins]

We weren't in the rooms and just like people are talking about coaches based on their pedigree and history why not look at Allen based on his. Even if he wasn't the guy making the moves this had to influence his decisions. I mean look at the coaching search where people (the media) said he did it in an Al Davis Oakland style search where many interviews were to gather information. Al was his former boss so what other stuff did he pick up from him?

Does Allen value speed as much as Al?

It seems that those Oakland teams were high on defensive linemen, is Al similar?

Or there are a few good names in the defensive backs category, particularly from Oakland but also from Tampa. What does that mean about here in dc? Sure we don't know the answers to these questions but it can help understand the principles he was probably taught on how to run a front office and nfl draft.

[nemocystem]

My takeaway. ...

He drafted some good DB's, & 2 really good kickers.

[jflow78]

We weren't in the rooms and just like people are talking about coaches based on their pedigree and history why not look at Allen based on his....Sure we don't know the answers to these questions but it can help understand the principles he was probably taught on how to run a front office and nfl draft.

I agree, nothing really factual out there as to how each of the FOs he was involved with.

 

So, it'll be interesting to see how things go.  I think we have a pretty solid guess that the HC won't be running the show this time.

[chipwhich]

We weren't in the rooms and just like people are talking about coaches based on their pedigree and history why not look at Allen based on his. Even if he wasn't the guy making the moves this had to influence his decisions. I mean look at the coaching search where people (the media) said he did it in an Al Davis Oakland style search where many interviews were to gather information. Al was his former boss so what other stuff did he pick up from him?

Does Allen value speed as much as Al?

It seems that those Oakland teams were high on defensive linemen, is Al similar?

Or there are a few good names in the defensive backs category, particularly from Oakland but also from Tampa. What does that mean about here in dc? Sure we don't know the answers to these questions but it can help understand the principles he was probably taught on how to run a front office and nfl draft.

 

It might be a fun exercise after a draft or two.  Without a baseline to go by, as we call it in computer science it's spaghetti code.

[Thinking Skins]

Bruce doesn't strike me as the guy who will be actually making the picks. He strikes me as the guy who will go to Scott Campbell and ask, "Who should we pick here?"

Like chipwich said, in Oakland Davis made all the picks, in Tampa I'd assume Gruden made the picks, and Shanahan was the guy here, so this might be the first time we get to see how Scott Campbell actually is at scouting.

Bruce said that he'd be the one making the pick, so I'd think that he'd break ties and if need be decide between drafting for need vs drafting for best player available and the future. Like I wonder who decided to draft Reed. That's a risky move for Shanny because we already had tight ends but if you're drafting for a future without Davis, then it's much more understandable. Would Shanny make that move without knowing that he'd be back? So I can see that as one where Shanny just went with Bruce and Scott.

It might be a fun exercise after a draft or two. Without a baseline to go by, as we call it in computer science it's spaghetti code.

Hey we've got a thread about Chris Thompson vs Roy Helu based on our new rb coach and his styles, right. It's all speculation right now. That's what the off-season is about.

[chipwhich]

Hey we've got a thread about Chris Thompson vs Roy Helu based on our new rb coach and his styles, right. It's all speculation right now. That's what the off-season is about.

 

I would think that discussion is a tad easier to use statistics than discussing a bunch of drafts where Bruce Allen probably made no picks.

 

Bump this in April.

[FrFan]

2004

1st Rnd(15th overall) WR Michael Clayton - BUST 1 Good season then sludge

3rd Rnd - Marquise Cooper LB - BUST

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 6 / # of NFL Starters: 0

2005

1st Rnd(5th Overall) RB Cadillac Williams - OK , Good player but was hurt all the time and was hurt often at Auburn - he should have seen that coming

2nd Rnd MLB Barrett Rudd - Average NFL Starter

3rd Rnd : TE Alex Smith - Marginal NFL Player

3rd Rnd : OT Chris Colmer - BUST

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 8 / # of NFL Starters: 0

2006

1st Rnd (23) OG Davin Joseph - Pro Bowler (his best pick of all time)

2nd Rnd OT Jeremy Trueblood - Slightly below average NFL Starter

3rd Rnd WR Maurice Stovall - BUST

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 7/ # of NFL Starters 0 {Bruce Gradkowski is a decent backup - rnd 6}

2007

1st Rnd (4) DE Gaines Adams - RIP, not dominant in his time here (And worse we had the chance to trade up to #2 for Calvin Johnson, but he was unwilling to part with the first of his 2nd round picks that year who was)

2nd Rnd OG Aaron Search - BUST (Good player but out of football for mental reasons well known coming into the draft)

2nd Rnd S Sabby Piscatelli - BUST

3rd Rnd LB Quick Black - Below Average LB

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 6 / # of NFL Starters : 1 FS Tannard Jackson(4th Rnd)

2008 [Thankfully his last after destroying what McKay built]

1st Rnd (15) Aqib Talib - Bust in the making (Character issues well know but we took him anyway and he's liable to be suspended even if he doesnt go to the pen)

2nd Rnd WR Dexter Jackson - Never Played an NFL down, cut in training camp

3rd Rnd OG Jeremy Zuttah - Good pick

# of Picks after Rnd 3: 4 / # of NFL Starters : 0 [Geno Hayes and Josh Johnson are decent backups]

 

Pretty Pathetic Record by Bruce Allen:

5 First Round Picks - 1 Pro Bowler , No Pro Bowlers in any other round

5 2nd Round Picks - 2 Starters, Barrett Rudd and Jeremy Trueblood, both are ho-hum

6 3rd Round Picks - 1 Good Player- Jeremy Zuttah

31 Picks after Rnd 3: 1 Starter

Link

 

I really hope Allen won't have final say concerning the draft selections, let AJ Smith handle it, he proved, back in San Diego, to be a much better talent evaluator.

I like that a lot, thanks Lavarleap56: http://es.redskins.com/topic/376488-the-bruce-allen-aj-smith-connection-and-relationship/?p=9720480

[Chump Bailey]

Hopefully Bruce will listen carefully and make wise decisions. A good leader IMO understands his limitations, knows when to check his ego and defer to people better equipped to make the call in an area of weakness. I don't want him having final say period. This is a critical draft for us.

[paloosa]

Everyone here seems to have it all figured out about who did what based off what they assume is the truth without having any facts to back them up. No one here has a clue of who made the picks during Allen's stays in Oakland or Tampa let alone here in Washington. Everyone assumes he is the yes man, just doing the cap management of it and has no real power as a GM. So he has come out of everywhere he has been without a blemish on his record of bad picks. No one here has been in the drafts he has been apart of and can definitely say that he did or did not make any picks. It is just like we don't blame Joe Gibbs for the picks that were made during his tenure because Vinny Cerrato took full blame for that because Vinny was the GM and Gibbs was just a coach even though he carried the same title as Shanahan did. But now that Gruden has become HC now Allen is the guy calling the shots and doing the picks. Why? Is it due to the lack of confidence or perspective of what Gruden's ability to do the picking? See none of us. Let me repeat that. NONE OF US! knows for sure who did what. So stop comparing drafts and labeling these draft picks were ________(fill in the blank coach or GM). 

[DC9]

Can a 3rd round pick really be a bust?

[FrFan]

"“What’s great about where Jay came from, Cincinnati, is that the coaches were really involved with the personnel process,” Allen said Thursday. “We’re going to make our selections based on the Redskins‘ choices. The scouting department will give us the players and the lists, and we’re going to work through the coaches and analyze it. At the end of the day, every one of the players will be chosen by the Redskins as a group. Jay and I talked about how we want to do it, and it really is going to be a group effort.”

But, Allen noted, “At the end of the day, it will be my responsibility.”" Link

If he doesn't lie, everybody will have an input including him. So, if things don't turn out well he will take full responsability for the all group, and be the only one to blame (which he must be praised for).

At the end of the day when let's say the situation will be like 50/50 between coaches and scouts who's going to make the final call ? Does being really involved mean decision making or is it lip service ?

Wished he would have clearly mentioned Senior Executive AJ Smith in the decision process.

Time will tell. Good luck though.

[Riggo-toni]

FrFan,

Your post on his TB record beat mine by a few days. I don't follow the Bucs, so I was going mostly through stats off of wiki. Guess I won't bother researching 2007 and 2008 now.

[FrFan]

FrFan,

Your post on his TB record beat mine by a few days. I don't follow the Bucs, so I was going mostly through stats off of wiki. Guess I won't bother researching 2007 and 2008 now.

I hope Allen will assemble the right pieces with the proper powers where they belong (including himself) and that we will have a great draft. I would like to see AJ have final say on draft with help from Gruden and Allen handling the cap, contract negociations, and helping Gruden with players management.

[Riggo-toni]

Agreed! Smith had an excellent draft record in SD, but picked the wrong coach and sucked at contract negotiations. Let AJ run the draft, Allen handle the cap, and Morocco handle FA.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Can a 3rd round pick really be a bust?

Haven't you read any of the Hankerson threads?

 

Personally, I think Bruce Allen is a weak link in our chain of command.  He should've stayed on as a cap guy, but I don't like that he has any say in football matters.  I don't think he's confident/competent as a personnel guy, so he's gonna lean more heavily on Gruden than I would prefer.  It sounds like the same trash we went through with Shanny, but now Allen has the scapegoat tag around his neck instead of our HC.

 

If you can't run a competent coaching search, and you keep most of your pathetic defensive staff, how in the hell am I supposed to have faith in his ability to have a good draft?  

 

And don't hit me with the "how can you say that before these guys have had a chance to..." stuff.  The writing is on the wall.  Everyone can read it, but we are scared to death to admit it.  We need to warm up to the fact that Bruce Allen could very well be an idiot.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just because Bruce Allen has the final say doesn't mean he is going to do it without input.  Why don't people get that about management?  I make the final decision on things every day that I don't actually know much about.  I gather the experts and listen to their opinions.  And then I make the final call, usually doing whatever they recommend.  But that doesn't change the fact that it is my decision and I bear the consequences when it gets ****ed up.  I think thats all Bruce is doing.  It's normal management.

[Thinking Skins]

I have a file where I've saved his work from Oakland too, but I'll respond to this.

2004

1st Rnd(15th overall) WR Michael Clayton - BUST 1 Good season then sludge

3rd Rnd - Marquise Cooper LB - BUST

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 6 / # of NFL Starters: 0

I guess I could call Clayton a bust, but he did last in the league til 2011. I guess I'd call him a bust too but thats more than we've gotten from a WR we drafted in a LONG time. Its sad that the only positive images I have of a WR we drafted are of Westrbook and Connell.

They also drafted <a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleWi21.htm">Will Allen</a> in the 4th round of that draft and he's still in the league.

2005

1st Rnd(5th Overall) RB Cadillac Williams - OK , Good player but was hurt all the time and was hurt often at Auburn - he should have seen that coming

2nd Rnd MLB Barrett Rudd - Average NFL Starter

3rd Rnd : TE Alex Smith - Marginal NFL Player

3rd Rnd : OT Chris Colmer - BUST

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 8 / # of NFL Starters: 0

Cadillac Williams was a really good back when he came into the league. He had injury problems but so do a lot of RBs that get drafted high. He was a speedy back who was fierce when he was healthy. Can't blame him for that one.

2006

1st Rnd (23) OG Davin Joseph - Pro Bowler (his best pick of all time)

2nd Rnd OT Jeremy Trueblood - Slightly below average NFL Starter

3rd Rnd WR Maurice Stovall - BUST

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 7/ # of NFL Starters 0 {Bruce Gradkowski is a decent backup - rnd 6}

I wouldn't say 3rd rounders are busts, but they're not exceptional. Trueblood is a starter in this league even if he's not exceptional. He's about where he was expected in the draft.

The fact that Gradkowski is still in the league is a good thing too.

2007

1st Rnd (4) DE Gaines Adams - RIP, not dominant in his time here (And worse we had the chance to trade up to #2 for Calvin Johnson, but he was unwilling to part with the first of his 2nd round picks that year who was)

2nd Rnd OG Aaron Search - BUST (Good player but out of football for mental reasons well known coming into the draft)

2nd Rnd S Sabby Piscatelli - BUST

3rd Rnd LB Quick Black - Below Average LB

# of Pics after Rnd 3: 6 / # of NFL Starters : 1 FS Tannard Jackson(4th Rnd)

Adam Hayward's still playing too, but I wouldn't give that too much to swing the needle.

2008 [Thankfully his last after destroying what McKay built]

1st Rnd (15) Aqib Talib - Bust in the making (Character issues well know but we took him anyway and he's liable to be suspended even if he doesnt go to the pen)

2nd Rnd WR Dexter Jackson - Never Played an NFL down, cut in training camp

3rd Rnd OG Jeremy Zuttah - Good pick

# of Picks after Rnd 3: 4 / # of NFL Starters : 0 [Geno Hayes and Josh Johnson are decent backups]

This the same Aqub Talib who is now in NE who shut down Bruce Gradkowski and is debatibly the best DB in football? People in other threads are drewling about ways to bring him here. He is NOT a bust.

I'd also give credit to Geno Hayes and Josh Johnson, but again not saying much.

Pretty Pathetic Record by Bruce Allen:

5 First Round Picks - 1 Pro Bowler , No Pro Bowlers in any other round

5 2nd Round Picks - 2 Starters, Barrett Rudd and Jeremy Trueblood, both are ho-hum

6 3rd Round Picks - 1 Good Player- Jeremy Zuttah

31 Picks after Rnd 3: 1 Starter

Link

 

I really hope Allen won't have final say concerning the draft selections, let AJ Smith handle it, he proved, back in San Diego, to be a much better talent evaluator.

I like that a lot, thanks Lavarleap56: http://es.redskins.com/topic/376488-the-bruce-allen-aj-smith-connection-and-relationship/?p=9720480

I'm not saying he has a stellar record, but it is informative and helps know what we may be in for. The segment you highlighted is interesting but I'm curious to how much input he had then and how good his scouts were then compared to his days in Oakland and in Washington. I'd think he had more input than in Oakland but we don't know how Jon Gruden was compared to Shanny (both had final say).

[2v2nv]

Just because Bruce Allen has the final say doesn't mean he is going to do it without input.  Why don't people get that about management?  I make the final decision on things every day that I don't actually know much about.  I gather the experts and listen to their opinions.  And then I make the final call, usually doing whatever they recommend.  But that doesn't change the fact that it is my decision and I bear the consequences when it gets ****ed up.  I think thats all Bruce is doing.  It's normal management.

I really feel that this is all it is. He isn't necessarily picking players and having the only input.  He's just being a manager. He's even stepping up and telling people this as plainly as it gets and people still don't understand it.

 

I am a teacher.  I feel that if a bunch of students spray paint graffiti on the walls of the school, they should be in trouble.  If I'm the one in charge of supervising them, then I should be in more trouble than them for letting them do it.  

 

He's simply stating that they are for the most part in charge of drafting but if I'm letting them fail miserably, the blame is also on me for not stepping in.  Its actually been a long time since someone in front office has taken responsibility like this for this team.  

[DC9]

Haven't you read any of the Hankerson threads?

 

Personally, I think Bruce Allen is a weak link in our chain of command.  He should've stayed on as a cap guy, but I don't like that he has any say in football matters.  I don't think he's confident/competent as a personnel guy, so he's gonna lean more heavily on Gruden than I would prefer.  It sounds like the same trash we went through with Shanny, but now Allen has the scapegoat tag around his neck instead of our HC.

 

If you can't run a competent coaching search, and you keep most of your pathetic defensive staff, how in the hell am I supposed to have faith in his ability to have a good draft?  

 

And don't hit me with the "how can you say that before these guys have had a chance to..." stuff.  The writing is on the wall.  Everyone can read it, but we are scared to death to admit it.  We need to warm up to the fact that Bruce Allen could very well be an idiot.

 

The more (longer) we are "in negotiations/talks" with Doug Williams, the more I get interested in this.

 

He knows Bruce, and he also knows exactly what he wants his contract to say to do a certain job.

[pjfootballer]

Just because Bruce Allen has the final say doesn't mean he is going to do it without input. Why don't people get that about management? I make the final decision on things every day that I don't actually know much about. I gather the experts and listen to their opinions. And then I make the final call, usually doing whatever they recommend. But that doesn't change the fact that it is my decision and I bear the consequences when it gets ****ed up. I think thats all Bruce is doing. It's normal management.

Because generally people make assumptions about something they know nothing about. Oh and people are generally stupid.

[ewmartin7776]

Although Bruce mentioned that the final responsibility lies with him, that does NOT mean he will be picking players by himself.  What I took away from what he said was that it will be a group effort and there will likely be some consensus on a number of picks.  If push came to shove and he had to break a tie where there were strong feelings on both sides, he would break the tie.

 

With Gruden, Campbell and Brown, he seems to have a pretty good team in place that he will rely on heavily.  But, Bruce has never positioned himself as a top personnel guru (I don't recall a sentence about wanting to pick the groceries).

 

Everything he has said indicates to me that it WILL be a team effort and that in rare occasions he will likely have a final say if no consensus.

 

One other thing, if after a few years, all the picks don't pan out, then he will have ultimately responsibility and be accountable for that.  That's what I got from what he said.

[roanoker]

A lot of info in the Op. Not sure how it translates to this upcoming year because as other posters have pointed out the decision maker was not Bruce. Nevertheless, as the final yea or nay guy now, it will be his baby.