A Closer Look(Head Coaches):Darrell Bevell

[darrelgreenie]

I merely pointed out a omission, which based on past history I would be shocked if it was not intentional.

Ugh..didn't omit anything only having 1 top 10 passing season automatically includes EVERY season that wasn't top in passing.

Cool, quibble over how I wrote MY OP, but surely don't add anything to the discussion.

Sweet!

HTTR

 

[PapaLazarou]

That "article" reads like a high minded blogger hatchet job, from a dude no more qualified then me or you.

 

It is an opinion. I would assume that this guy has a better grasp of the Seahawks than either of us would have. And I understand that this OP is striving for objectivity. A bit or criticism is allowable, yes?

[darrelgreenie]

It is an opinion. I would assume that this guy has a better grasp of the Seahawks than either of us would have. And I understand that this OP is striving for objectivity. A bit or criticism is allowable, yes?

Without a doubt criticism is encouraged. But I guess I was looking for something more fact based that could lead to discussion about how this offense and team might look with Bevell as the HC. Posting some bloggers opinion piece doesn't imho advance our discussion.*shrtugs*

And I actually watch a lot of Seahawks games, I've a fan of Russell Wilson dating back to NC State. And while a Seahawks fan/blogger may have a better grasp they also maybe as incorrect as ASF or ncr2h who claim Cousins is better then Griffin. Or it would be like asking one of the people in this forum that hate Kyle Shanahan about his ability as an OC. Although they should know more then an outsider it doesn't neccesarily make their opinoin credible. And the "article" read like a hatchet job *shrugs*. He basically said that Bevell isn't worthy of being a HC candidate at all and barely mentioned anything positive about him at all. So, if you're reading that "article" and accepting it as fact or accurate I think you are being mislead by someone who harbors a strong dislike for Bevell for whatever reason.

[ldysknzfn1]

Doesn't seem like a bad choice..has a lot of pros...I wouldn't be upset w/this hire...

 

I meant to say in the Jim Caldwell thread that these threads are a good idea..it's giving some of us who know very little about the ppl that are being interviewed some very good info. Thanks for putting them together darrellgreenie...

[Thinking Skins]

I like Bevell as a coching candidate. I think Seattle's offense is similar enough to ours for us to install it without any real changes to our offensive playmakers. The real question I have is who's responsible for their offense, him or Tom Cable? And if he came here would he be a Jason Garrett type coach who's more interested in the passing game than the running game? No evidence of that, but if as is speculated that he's doing the passing game and cable does the running game, then how much does he know about / value the running game? 

I tend to think, after reading a bunch of articles on Bevell, that he's a guy who might fit from a scheme perspective but lack the ability to really lead and motivate this team.  Some guys are great coordinators without being able to translate that over to being a success HC.  IMHO, Bevell is one of those guys.

 

The three names that came to mind when I read about Bevell's personality were Gibbs, Norv, and Zorn. Obviously Gibbs is a man that many would walk through walls for and he had the type of exciting offense that could get fans excited. Norv had the exciting offense, but didn't have the people management skills, nor the desire to work with and develop the defensive side of the ball to be effective. Then there's Zorn who at least didn't quit. That's all I can say about him. 

Couple of things. He's not a head coach at the moment. It's possibly his demeanor as of right now. Maybe he doesn't want to be the rah rah guy in front of his bosses. Another thing is being a disciplinary and a leader doesn't always translate into being a stereotypical Bill Cowher figurehead. See Bill Belichick. Oh I'm sure he has his moments in the locker room, as I'm sure so does Bevell. I like the guy, and I wouldn't mind if we ended up with him.

 

Maybe, but one thing about him is that he (like Gibbs) is a very religious guy who doesn't like to curse and doesn't like to get angry. Having a level head can be a positive thing, but every so often I want my coach to be able to give one of those Lombardi like speeches. Is that a must have in a coach? I don't think so, but it does lead to wonder if he can be a leader to more than just those who are already motivated.

[MEANDWARF]

Granted at first this guy intrigue me, but after reading about him makes me believe he is not HC material. If he does end up being hired, I see Snyder chewing him up and spitting him out in a couple of years(especially if things start off bad).

[darrelgreenie]

my 2 cents IF Bevell were to be hired as HC AND things worked out............

 

Bevell will most likely be a HC in the mold of other WCO HC before him.

Which means most likely that Bevell will continue to call plays and he will run "his" offense through his offensive coordinator.

That removes some of the pressure of having to find veteran offensive coordinator.

 

Our Most important player: Robert Griffin

 

Bevell has first hand experience grooming Russell Wilson a QB with a similar skillset to Griffin.

(I am one of Russell's biggest fans and I think i'm being objective when I say that Robert is more talented)

 

3,118--64%---26 TD---10 INT---Rushing--489--2012

3,357--63%---26 TD---9 INT---Rushing--539--2013

 

Bevell as a WCO coach can develop Griffin in his specific area of weakness: rhythm drop back passing. Imho the West Coast Offense is the best system for coaching and developing a rhythm passer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCyDtgvkU78#t=0

 

The Seahawks also make use of the read-option BUT /specifically they use ZONE-read as opposed to our version of the read option which is a pistol formation midline or dive read. Point being is that Bevell's offense will continue to make use of Griffin as a run threat; it will not avoid or ignore it.

 

Our second most important player: Alfred Morris (D.Young)

 

Bevell's history suggest that Alfred Morris will maintain his role as the focal point of the offense. The transition for Morris should be easy,  the basis of their run game and our is the ZBS. But although they have a base in the ZBS they also run downhill more often; consequently D.Young will still have a place in the run game and offense under Bevell.

 

OL:

I think we're gonna have issues up front regardless of the HC. Because Bevell runs a ZBS it gives our may not require wholesale changes like it would for a man or power scheme. It should be noted that the Seahawks played without BOTH starting OT for most of the year and still managed to have the 8th ranked scoring offense and 4th ranked rushing offense.

 

Garcon/Reed--Receiving Corps:

I think our receiving group is a clear upgrade from their's: Seahawks-Tate 64, Baldwin 50, Miller 33, Kearse 22 Redskins--Garcon 113, Reed 45, Moss 42, Hankerson 30. Hopefully if Bevell retains Sean McVay and working together they can maintain some of the concepts that allowed Garcon and Reed to flourish.

 

SUM:

IF Bevell were to be hired as HC I could see him having immediate success and improving upon our current ranking or 23rd in scoring and moving closer to the Seahawks ranking of 8th (tied).

One of Bevell's greatest assests that will help in an immediate success and easy transition is because the verbiage and concepts of the offense are going to similar and the same in many instances as a result of the WCO.

 

Also I believe our much maligned offensive personnel is more talented then the Hawks current offense in several areas. Right now I think Russell is playing at a higher level, but the combination of Bevell's coaching and Griffin's talent I think Griffin can play equal to if not better then Russell. This imho is Bevell's greatest assest.

 

I don't think the drop off from Lynch to Morris is that great, Morris has proven success in the ZBS and if Bobby Turner is retained (please, please, please) I see Morris and the other backs continuing their success.

 

When it comes to the passing game our I think our skill position players are better and deeper then the Seahawks. And although Bevell isn't known for his passing offense but when he had the pieces at QB and WR (Favreand (a healthy) Harvin/Rice) his passing offense was 8th ranked in the NFL and was 2nd in scoring.

 

tldr: Bevell brings scehematic continuity WCO, ZBS, run focused, spread formation, some zone-read, ability to develop Griffin

[The Slamming Butcher]

Yawn.

 

Next.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Without a doubt criticism is encouraged. But I guess I was looking for something more fact based that could lead to discussion about how this offense and team might look with Bevell as the HC. Posting some bloggers opinion piece doesn't imho advance our discussion.*shrtugs*

And I actually watch a lot of Seahawks games, I've a fan of Russell Wilson dating back to NC State. And while a Seahawks fan/blogger may have a better grasp they also maybe as incorrect as ASF or ncr2h who claim Cousins is better then Griffin. Or it would be like asking one of the people in this forum that hate Kyle Shanahan about his ability as an OC. Although they should know more then an outsider it doesn't neccesarily make their opinoin credible. And the "article" read like a hatchet job *shrugs*. He basically said that Bevell isn't worthy of being a HC candidate at all and barely mentioned anything positive about him at all. So, if you're reading that "article" and accepting it as fact or accurate I think you are being mislead by someone who harbors a strong dislike for Bevell for whatever reason.

Actually, the blogger there makes two points that I have heard elsewhere a few places now- 1. Questioning whether he has the personality to be the kind o leader a HC needs to be and; 2. That Cable seems to have more responsibility for the run game, which is the part of that offense that has carried it.

 

Again, those two things are popping up different places, and I'm glad someone got them linked early in this thread.

[darrelgreenie]

Actually, the blogger there makes two points that I have heard elsewhere a few places now- 1. Questioning whether he has the personality to be the kind o leader a HC needs to be and; 2. That Cable seems to have more responsibility for the run game, which is the part of that offense that has carried it.

 

Again, those two things are popping up different places, and I'm glad someone got them linked early in this thread.

I'm sure no one read the OP

I enter this thread with full acknowledgement that there are plenty of important aspects of being a successful Head Coach that from our vantage point we cannot know first hand.

Important aspects like leadership, communication, perspicasity.....aspects that for the most part are unknowable as fan view 10,000 miles removed....

My hope is that we can discuss the candidates on terms we have direct knowledge about: how our team or offense or defense might/could look schematically with each candidate as HC.

but the point wasn't to discuss topics that we have no ability to know. Could Bevell have a terrible personality for a HC? Sure. Could Bevell have the perfect personality for a HC? Sure. We have no way to know.

It takes all types. Form Bill Walsh to Bill Parcells to Tony Dungy to Mike Dikta.

 

EVERY OL and RB coach has influence on the running game. Heck, Bobby Turner has handled Mike Shanahan's running games for years. Bevell had top 10 rushing offenses prior to ever meeting Cable, including the #1 rushing offense in 2007.

 

Imho it is easy to discount the success of any HC or OC based on the quality of their assistants it is such a ubiquitous critique that it can be successfully applied to any HC/OC that has successful co-coordinator or assistants that to me its empty, spurious, hollow etc. I'm just giving my opinion on that article.

 

And I guess I was hoping for more then to argue some bloggers points. I thought a dialogue or discussion would develop.*shrugs*

[Rufus T Firefly]

So, you introduced a thread about a Coach candidate but want to dictate what is allowed to be brought up in that discussion?

 

Fine, I'll stay away from this thread.

[darrelgreenie]

So, you introduced a thread about a Coach candidate but want to dictate what is allowed to be brought up in that discussion?

 

Fine, I'll stay away from this thread.

Am I not allowed to give my opinion on an article that is posted in a thread?

I didn't say he shouldn't post it.

And how is hoping for something, dictating?

People see what they want.

Cheers all the same

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

DG, do you think that Bevell's version of the zone read as compared to our version of the read option offers better protection to the QB?  It seems that way to me, but I'm not sure why I feel that way.

 

Am I crazy?  I know WIlson's field awareness is superior to Griff's at this point, so maybe that's it. 

[War Paint]

I see that some are concerned about Bevell having a more laid back personality.  I'm just curious as to why that is a concern?  Being calm does not mean there is no leadership ability.  Gibbs wasn't a loud, fiery personality.  Heck, this organization probably needs a more calm, results oriented HC to help defuse some of the circus vibe instead of a loud, animated guy.

[grego]

i cant say i get too excited for bevell. (not really excited at all, to be honest). yes, he's worked with favre, rodgers and wilson. but i also see those three QB's as being good anyway. so, its hard to say how much of it is cuz of bevell. (even wilson. like you, dg, i think he's very good anyway).

 

there just doesnt seem to be that special thing about him. nothing that blows me away. but, thats just my opinion. 

 

when i look at guys like whisenhunt, i can say 'look what he just did for rivers, who we all thought was done. look what he did when he had an actual QB (who many thought was done as well) in warner. he got the freaking cardinals to a SB and nearly won it, he took a young big ben to the SB and ran a pretty damn good offense'. pitts offense still hasnt been as good since a year after whis left. 

 

san diego went from 20th last year to 12 this year in points. from 31st to 5th in yards (WTF?!)

 

the mans gotten impressive results everywhere he's been. 

 

grudens even gotten dalton (who isnt the most gifted QB in the NFL) to throw for the third most TDs in the NFL. not too shabby. top 10 offense this year. a REAL top ten offense- not like our fraud team. they actaully scored POINTS. 6th most in the league! gotten better every year. 

 

bevells lacking that. 

[Peregrine]

I think the assessment is pretty accurate that he has run a solid, average, but not great offense.  The Seahawks offense was mediocre, not bad by any means, but they benefited from a great defense and a lot of short fields.  Thats why their PPG is so much higher than their overall offense.  If he isnt a great motivator, then I dont think he will make a great head coach.  Considering the QBs he has been with its tempting to claim he is good at developing QB's, but im not sure his history bears that out.  One good year with Favre aside, he had a number of very very bad ones(with not very good QB's to be fair).  All in all, I think hes too much of a gamble, and he really needs to prove himself first.

[War Paint]

i cant say i get too excited for bevell. (not really excited at all, to be honest). yes, he's worked with favre, rodgers and wilson. but i also see those three QB's as being good anyway. so, its hard to say how much of it is cuz of bevell. (even wilson. like you, dg, i think he's very good anyway).

 

there just doesnt seem to be that special thing about him. nothing that blows me away. but, thats just my opinion. 

 

when i look at guys like whisenhunt, i can say 'look what he just did for rivers, who we all thought was done. look what he did when he had an actual QB (who many thought was done as well) in warner. he got the freaking cardinals to a SB and nearly won it, he took a young big ben to the SB and ran a pretty damn good offense'. pitts offense still hasnt been as good since a year after whis left. 

 

san diego went from 20th last year to 12 this year in points. from 31st to 5th in yards (WTF?!)

 

the mans gotten impressive results everywhere he's been. 

 

grudens even gotten dalton (who isnt the most gifted QB in the NFL) to throw for the third most TDs in the NFL. not too shabby. top 10 offense this year. a REAL top ten offense- not like our fraud team. they actaully scored POINTS. 6th most in the league! gotten better every year. 

 

bevells lacking that. 

Maybe Bevell isn't the answer, but I don't look at any potential HC as having the "it" factor.  It's impossible to tell unless they get it done if given the chance.  I don't think anyone back in 1981 thought "omg, we just hired Gibbs.  He's special."  I bet a lot of Skin fans back then were like "who?" Coaches like Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy didn't cause Packer and Saint fans to pop the corks off the champagne.  In fact, Packer fans were pissed at the hire.  You have to look at more than just the stats of their offense.  McCarthy's offense in San Fran was at the bottom of the league the year before he was hired as Packers HC.

 

We really need to stay away from the "exciting" hire, because it never seems to work out.  There really isn't an exciting hire out there unless you go for the splashy name. 

[grego]

Maybe Bevell isn't the answer, but I don't look at any potential HC as having the "it" factor.  It's impossible to tell unless they get it done if given the chance.  I don't think anyone back in 1981 thought "omg, we just hired Gibbs.  He's special."  I bet a lot of Skin fans back then were like "who?" Coaches like Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy didn't cause Packer and Saint fans to pop the corks off the champagne.  In fact, Packer fans were pissed at the hire.  You have to look at more than just the stats of their offense.  McCarthy's offense in San Fran was at the bottom of the league the year before he was hired as Packers HC.

 

We really need to stay away from the "exciting" hire, because it never seems to work out.  There really isn't an exciting hire out there unless you go for the splashy name. 

 

 

cant disagree with any of that. 

 

just not sure why folks are excited for bevell. doesnt seem to have obviously outstanding offenses that you know he was responsible for. doesnt appear have the magnetic personality.....seems like he has a good work ethic. 

 

just not seeing anything special. ive heard hue jackson and danny smith as coaches who players would run thru walls for but dont have any real 'stats' on their resume.

 

but, he could be a great HC. who knows?

[War Paint]

cant disagree with any of that. 

 

just not sure why folks are excited for bevell. doesnt seem to have obviously outstanding offenses that you know he was responsible for. doesnt appear have the magnetic personality.....seems like he has a good work ethic. 

 

just not seeing anything special. ive heard hue jackson and danny smith as coaches who players would run thru walls for but dont have any real 'stats' on their resume.

 

but, he could be a great HC. who knows?

Bevell is one of my top choices, but I'm not excited over him.  I look at him as a very practical choice on credentials alone.  It's all up to Bruce Allen and if he thinks Bevell isn't the best choice, then that's fine.  I don't think anyone we hire is going to give me goosebumps.  I'm in the "show me results" boat.

[darrelgreenie]

DG, do you think that Bevell's version of the zone read as compared to our version of the read option offers better protection to the QB?  It seems that way to me, but I'm not sure why I feel that way.

 

Am I crazy?  I know WIlson's field awareness is superior to Griff's at this point, so maybe that's it. 

The Seahawks use a 'true' zone-read and the QB (should) only keep when he is uncovered. The same principle applies to our pistol read option except we also use triple option where the QB is open to get blasted regardless. And, Russell in his own right has a much better feel and awareness then Griffin when it comes to avoiding contact.

[darrelgreenie]

I think the assessment is pretty accurate that he has run a solid, average, but not great offense.  The Seahawks offense was mediocre, not bad by any means, but they benefited from a great defense and a lot of short fields.  Thats why their PPG is so much higher than their overall offense

I think you are selling the Seahawks offense short.

They have been ranked 8th (2013) and 9th (2012) in scoring the past 2 seasons that's not mediocre that is above average AND they've been doing it with a rookie QB. A rookie QB. (thought it beared repeating

 

I don't think its fair to attempt to diminish the Seahawks offense based on having a good defense.

 The Seahawks without a doubt have a good defense.

But even using advanced metrics that control/exclude external factors  like defense rate the Seahawks offense well: Football Outsiders ranks the Seahawks offense CORRECTION:  9th overall 8th in passing and 7th in rushing

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff

 

...............Considering the QBs he has been with its tempting to claim he is good at developing QB's, but im not sure his history bears that out. One good year with Favre aside, he had a number of very very bad ones(with not very good QB's to be fair). All in all, I think hes too much of a gamble, and he really needs to prove himself first.

Maybe some are claiming that Bevell is good at developing QBs. I'm only pointing out that he's developed Russell Wilson and we happen to have a young QB with a similar physical skillset.

And in regard to the his development of QBs or passing offenses. You can't just throw out an entire season by saying 'Favre aside'; because it would then be unfair to fault him for T.Jack and  Gus Frettote who were Bevell's QB in 2007 and 2008 when the Vikings offense still managed to be 12th and 15th in points. The year with Favre shows that when given talent he can get the most out of them.

[darrelgreenie]

I like Bevell as a coching candidate. I think Seattle's offense is similar enough to ours for us to install it without any real changes to our offensive playmakers. The real question I have is who's responsible for their offense, him or Tom Cable? And if he came here would he be a Jason Garrett type coach who's more interested in the passing game than the running game? No evidence of that, but if as is speculated that he's doing the passing game and cable does the running game, then how much does he know about / value the running game? 

Bevell has only worked with Cable for 3 seasons 2011 #21 Rushing offense, 2012 #3, 2013 #5. and 2012 

Prior to working with Cable, Bevell still run focused and produced productive running offenses: 2007 #1 Rushing offense, 2008 #5, 2010 #10, 2008 #13, 2006 #16.

[DC9]

Bevell would be my #1 choice out of everyone we've been in official contact with as of now.

 

He's not my #1 choice overall.  I'd still rather have David Shaw or Jay Gruden.

Oh, and fantastic work on these threads, DG.

 

That's a lot of work and the info is very useful.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

i read in one of the other threads here that Bevell isn't even admired that much by the seahawks fans.  I think it was in the who's the best available coach thread.  Someone posted a link from the Seattle forum where those guys where kicking around the idea and wondering why he's getting some much attention.  I will say this though: From what I've seen of Seattle fans, they are relatively new fans.  It's really cool on one hand because they are VERY energetic fans - think world cup crazy fans.  But on the other hand they just don't seem to know very much about the game. I have to travel out there often for work and I'm blown away by their lack of knowledge.  Of course that isn't all of them but out of the people I've had the pleasure of conversation.

[ThomasRoane]

I wouldn't hate him.  I'd just rather see someone be a true Head Coach.  Bevell would naturally gravitate towards the offensive side of the ball.  I'd rather steal him away as an OC than hire him as a Head Coach.