The new GM will be more important than the new Head Coach

[Die Hard]

How many coaches in the past 20 years have sought and received full organizational control?

 

- Mike Shanahan (Redskins)
- Mike Shanahan (Broncos)

- Joe Gibbs (Redskins)

- Marty Schottenheimer (Redskins)

- Mike Holmgren (Seahawks)

- Bill Belichick (Patriots)

- Andy Reid (Eagles) 2001 -- his 3rd year coaching the Eagles  since he joined in 1999.

 

These opportunities are few and far in between. And other than Andy Reid, the rest of those coaches had won Super Bowls or had a long history of NFL coaching success. The amount of candidates that could even ask for, let alone receive, full organizational control can be counted on 1 hand.

 

The rest of the NFL operates with a GM that reports directly to the owner and hires/fires the HC (who usually gets to hire his own staff). I`m not sure what the problem is here.

[chipwhich]

How many coaches in the past 20 years have sought and received full organizational control?

 

- Mike Shanahan (Redskins)

- Mike Shanahan (Broncos)

- Marty Schottenheimer (Redskins)

- Mike Holmgren (Seahawks)

- Bill Belichick (Patriots)

- Andy Reid (Eagles) 2001 -- his 3rd year coaching the Eagles  since he joined in 1999.

 

These opportunities are few and far in between. And other than Andy Reid, the rest of those coaches had won Super Bowls or had a long history of NFL coaching success. The amount of candidates that could even ask for, let alone receive, full organizational control can be counted on 1 hand.

 

The rest of the NFL operates with a GM that reports directly to the owner and hires/fires the HC (who usually gets to hire his own staff). I`m not sure what the problem is here.

 

Joe Gibbs had full organizational control.

[RED06]

last year i was scared that the read option was gimmicky, My biggest fear was if Shanny failed Snyder will go back to his old ways... I do believe that he did take more of a back seat the past 4 years.... however the damage is done to the point that many good coaches will pass this job up... untill there is 100% proof that he has changed.. but yesterdays presser sounded at lot like marketing and the same PC verbage that he is known for.

Man I see where you're coming from to a point. But, there's not "many" coaches that will pass this job up because there's some pieces in place to be successful. The biggest thing new coaches look for in accepting a new job is the QB. Washington has that, whether some want to accept it or not. There's never 100% proof of anything when you're in this kind of profession. From players to coaches. No one views a professional multi million dollar career that way. Maybe in the corporate world. But they will not have a problem finding a coach. Now it may not be the coach that EVERYONE wants. But, when is EVERYONE ever satisfied with anything? They can't worry about nor care what the fan base thinks. That to me was the biggest problem that Snyder had. He cared about public opinion too much.

 

I don't think Bruce will allow that to happen. I guess you will have to wait and see.

 

I for one hope it's Briles. I could give a rats butt what the media, fans, haters or ANYONE thinks about it. I don't care if RGII just shined his shoes in the barbershop. With the innovations he brings to the table (regardless of his experience in the "NFL") I think he and RG3 are the perfect match.

 

Some people with this what will and won't work in the "NFL" is sickening sometimes. Stuff evolves, EVERYTHING eventually moves to the next level.

 

If it's NOT Briles, I won't be angry or complain. I will just support and love my team regardless of what coach is coaching. As long as his name is Art Briles...................

[Die Hard]

Joe Gibbs had full organizational control.

 

Correct.Thanks. Updated.

 

Fortunately, it`s still consistent with the point I was trying to make :-)

[darrelgreenie]

I have cautious optimism.

 

Bruce Allen isn't a personnel guy.

 

He's a contracts and negotation guy. Which is important. And personnel is arguable the biggest job of a GM. (next to guiding the ship and managing egos i.e. tell the coach when your special teams coach needs to be let go etc.)

So Bruce Allen, the non-personnel guy, is vouching for 2 personnel guys in M.Brown and Scott Campbell that have been here during some *meh* personnel practices in both draft/FA.

I am left to assume that Allen believes in M.Brown/Scott Campbell for a reason.

I am left to assume that the previous GM, who had final say, should/could have taken more input from M.Brown/Scott Campbell and chose not.

I am inclined to believe that Bruce Allen is correct and that the previous GM did not listen M.Brown and Scott Campbell enough.

But again Bruce Allen isn't a personnel guy.

 

However, Senior Executive AJ Smith is a personnel guy.

But what is his role? I don't know.

But I hope that Bruce and AJ work together and allow M.Brown/Scott Campbell to do their thing.

 

It could work.

Its not ideal but it could work.

I do believe its the best stucture we've had in a long time.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

That's the new  regime in a nutshell.

 

 

It could work.

Its not ideal but it could work.

I do believe its the best stucture we've had in a long time.

[KDawg]

Here's another way to look at it for those of you that are worried about the overall process.

 

There are 16 coaches (or so) on every NFL coaching staff.

 

1. Head Coach (1 person)
2. Offensive Coordinator/Defensive Coordinators (2 people)
3. Assistants by seniority (roughly 13 people)

Now let's look at our GM structure:

 

1. General Manager (1 person)
2. Free Agent Coordinator/Draft Coordinator (2 people)
3. Assistants (who knows how many)

It's a very similar structure. 

[BraunMan92]

What is AJ Smith's exact role in all of this?  Why wasn't he mentioned at the press conference?

[darrelgreenie]

Kdawg-

Our GM doesn't do the main thing GM's do, personnel.

[Thinking Skins]

Here's another way to look at it for those of you that are worried about the overall process.

 

There are 16 coaches (or so) on every NFL coaching staff.

 

1. Head Coach (1 person)
2. Offensive Coordinator/Defensive Coordinators (2 people)
3. Assistants by seniority (roughly 13 people)

Now let's look at our GM structure:

 

1. General Manager (1 person)
2. Free Agent Coordinator/Draft Coordinator (2 people)
3. Assistants (who knows how many)

It's a very similar structure. 

 

What I don't get is people who say that Allen will just be a tool for Shanny? If they really believe this, then who's to say that any other guy we hired wouldn't be the same? I mean we have the structure we wanted.

 

Its similar to the structure we had when Vinny was here post Gibbs, and I was in favor of that structure as well because we could hold Vinny accountable and say "that was your decision". So case and point is we can look at that 2008 draft that Vinny was so proud of and shake our heads. Now, if these guys weren't being listened to back then, then that was a problem. Hopefully things are better this time around. But the structure we had in 2008 is ultimately what led to Vinny being fired. Because we could finally hold him accountable and say that was your decision to hire Zorn. Now we're going to get the same thing with Allen. If he's really bad at being a GM (and I'm not a big fan of his), then he'll mess up too and he'll be fired as well. And in that case, we'll hopefully hire another GM and keep the same structure.

 

Its taken us 15 years to get back to this structure. It may not be with the people all of us wanted (because nobody would please all of us), but we have the structure for once. Lets not act like that's not a big deal.

[KDawg]

Kdawg-

Our GM doesn't do the main thing GM's do, personnel.

 

Sure he does. 

 

He is sitting in the role of GM, but functioning in the role of P/VP of Football Operations. As the GM, he's smart enough to know his primary strength isn't talent evaluation. So what does he do? He makes sure his coordinators (scouts) are strong talent evaluators and he tells them to do the heavy lifting. I'd say that's smart. Some guys know talent when they see it, but they have trouble picking it out of a crowd, or get overwhelmed with stats. Maybe he's the type that gets caught in the noise and he think Brown and Campbell can help wade through the crap and give him solid assessments and tape to look at.

 

Can you tell me you're not excited about these quotes?

 

"I want to hear what their dreams are, what they can do, the fire in their belly to coach the Washington Redskins, to inspire the kids on this football team,” Allen said.

 

“It’s the person who has the understanding and the knowledge of what he wants to teach the players,” Allen said. “As I said at the beginning, we’re going to look for someone who is a leader first and it could be on the offensive side of the ball, defense or special teams. There have been a couple special teams coaches who have made great head coaches. We’re going to keep an open mind.”

 

I realize there are reasons for concern with the franchise, but sometimes I think we look for drama as a fanbase. It's what we know. 

[FrFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAhNzUbGVAA

[pjfootballer]

This is NOT what Snyder wants.

He is still making big decisions.  The McNabb and RGIII trades were 100% Snyder.

Shanahan and Allen ==== Zorn and Cerrato

The Next coach will know ahead of time they will crash and burn.  They will do it for the money ONLY.

This is why Snyder will never land a top quality young and hungry coach with something to prove.

That ship has sailed.

 

 

The skins have to prove they have learned.... I doubt it because the weasel of ashburn is a horrid owner.. in fact thats why usa today lists the skins job as 6th best available..... Snyder is not leaving though .. So we must deal with his puppet of a fake GM who is only living off his last name here.... ask tampa fans about Allen... 

 

I wish I could add Gigantor (Hates RG3) and Braun92 (Hates any move) to this list.  Can you guys post something positive for once?  Seriously?  I mean, all I see is negative, negative, negative out of the 4 of you.  I never say this, but if it's too painful to root for this team, I hear Modell's is having an after Christmas sale on the other 31 teams' jerseys. 

 

I don't mind you guys not drinking the Kool-Aid as I am not either, but if you're going to be negative, at least have intelligent reasons why you don't agree with things.  All I see is Snyder bashing, Bruce Allen bashing or Griffin bashing.  Right now, you are not bringing anything to the site other than whining and crying about things you cannot control.  EVERY post is "Snyder sucks, Snyder ruined us, RG3 is a diva, Allen isn't a real GM," blah, blah, blah. 

 

I agree with RED06, at least let them be in office and make an actual move before judging them.  Just because the team didn't hire your favorite GM, doesn't mean you would have been right or they are wrong.  I mean, I see this in every thread the 4 of you are in.  Enough already.  Bring your A-game to the site or find a new one.

[Die Hard]

"I want to hear what their dreams are, what they can do, the fire in their belly to coach the Washington Redskins, to inspire the kids on this football team,” Allen said.

 

I just found this quote to be exceptionally interesting... more specifically, the first point. It can be easy to pass off coaches and players as nothing more than technicians and athletes, respectively. And as much as I probably shouldn`t be surprised that professionals at the highest levels (more specifically athletics) require a higher level of cerebral function... I am. When I see it...  I get excited. I`m glad he`s on our team.

[pjfootballer]

What I don't get is people who say that Allen will just be a tool for Shanny? If they really believe this, then who's to say that any other guy we hired wouldn't be the same? I mean we have the structure we wanted.

 

Its similar to the structure we had when Vinny was here post Gibbs, and I was in favor of that structure as well because we could hold Vinny accountable and say "that was your decision". So case and point is we can look at that 2008 draft that Vinny was so proud of and shake our heads. Now, if these guys weren't being listened to back then, then that was a problem. Hopefully things are better this time around. But the structure we had in 2008 is ultimately what led to Vinny being fired. Because we could finally hold him accountable and say that was your decision to hire Zorn. Now we're going to get the same thing with Allen. If he's really bad at being a GM (and I'm not a big fan of his), then he'll mess up too and he'll be fired as well. And in that case, we'll hopefully hire another GM and keep the same structure.

 

Its taken us 15 years to get back to this structure. It may not be with the people all of us wanted (because nobody would please all of us), but we have the structure for once. Lets not act like that's not a big deal.

Agree with this.  I see a whole bunch of people in here basing their opinions about what Allen "can" and "can't" do without knowing jack.  Really?  How do any of you naysayers REALLY know what Allen can or can't do?  Just a bunch of sheep regurgitating what they hear in the media.  Baa, baa, baa!

[darrelgreenie]

Sure he does.

I guess that clears it up then. 

[Hooper]

I would feel a lot better if Bruce Allen wasn't a trainwreck in Tampa who was out of the league for a reason.

[RandyHolt]

My guess is that AJ Smith will have a voice in the traditional GM decisions.

 

Is it accurate to say he is the most qualified to be a GM?  As a senior executive, I would like to think he does have some say in big decisions, regardless. 

 

If a lurking reporter could inquire as to his exact role, that would be great info. TIA. 

[Birdlives]

I would've preferred they hire a true GM and talent evaluator from outside of the organization to head things up, have them pick the coaches, etc. and run this team they way most successful organizations do. Elevate Allen to VP or President of the organization as a go between for Snyder and the new GM, but otherwise just keep picking the uniforms and stay out of the way.

 

I don't really like the direction they've gone as it still leaves the "GM" beholden to the owners wishes and I can't help but feel that Snyder is more interfering than we see mainly because it's all behind the scenes now.

 

Color me highly skeptical that this situation can work well. It is what it is and we'll have to accept it for now. What I would ask all those that say they like it or approve of this new format is this:

 

What possible reason should anyone, fans included, of this franchise have to believe things will now change when no success has been felt since Snyder took over the team?

 

Why should I believe this will somehow work when nothing else has?

 

I think it's highly naïve to jump up and say, "well, they nailed it this time; this time things will be different".

 

Until we start consistently winning the division and/or making the playoffs, why shouldn't I believe this is just as likely to fail as all of Snyder's other moves?

 

I think it's very strange that there are posters out there that can honestly attack any poster who doesn't like the moves this team has made, even these most recent ones.

[RED06]

I wish I could add Gigantor (Hates RG3) and Braun92 (Hates any move) to this list.  Can you guys post something positive for once?  Seriously?  I mean, all I see is negative, negative, negative out of the 4 of you.  I never say this, but if it's too painful to root for this team, I hear Modell's is having an after Christmas sale on the other 31 teams' jerseys. 

 

I don't mind you guys not drinking the Kool-Aid as I am not either, but if you're going to be negative, at least have intelligent reasons why you don't agree with things.  All I see is Snyder bashing, Bruce Allen bashing or Griffin bashing.  Right now, you are not bringing anything to the site other than whining and crying about things you cannot control.  EVERY post is "Snyder sucks, Snyder ruined us, RG3 is a diva, Allen isn't a real GM," blah, blah, blah. 

 

I agree with RED06, at least let them be in office and make an actual move before judging them.  Just because the team didn't hire your favorite GM, doesn't mean you would have been right or they are wrong.  I mean, I see this in every thread the 4 of you are in.  Enough already.  Bring your A-game to the site or find a new one.

pjfootballer I 100% agree with you man. I'm starting to seriously believe that if you're depressed about ANYTHING don't come to ES. You would hang yourself from all the negative doom and gloom stuff on here LOL.

[zoony]

I am genuinely trying to sell myself on this move. I just cannot get behind it.

I do applaud the fact that we have a GM, I just don't feel good about Bruce Allen in that role. I think there are more qualified football people out there. This move reeks of cronyism to me. Bruce is a swell guy and talented in his own right, he's just not a GM. I also am highly skeptical of accountability within this new structure, which is always tied to performance.

That said, I'm willing to give it a chance and be a neutral observer. Bruce Allen deserves the opportunity to prove himself. I can't see the future and nobody else can either, maybe he truly will get this thing right.

I think the odds are stacked against this decision. It is not the decision I would have made and its nothing that I can get excited over. I hope that 2 years from now I have a different feeling.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I am genuinely trying to sell myself on this move. I just cannot get behind it.

I do applaud the fact that we have a GM, I just don't feel good about Bruce Allen in that role. I think there are more qualified football people out there. This move reeks of cronyism to me. Bruce is a swell guy and talented in his own right, he's just not a GM. I also am highly skeptical of accountability within this new structure, which is always tied to performance.

That said, I'm willing to give it a chance and be a neutral observer. Bruce Allen deserves the opportunity to prove himself. I can't see the future and nobody else can either, maybe he truly will get this thing right.

I think the odds are stacked against this decision. It is not the decision I would have made and its nothing that I can get excited over. I hope that 2 years from now I have a different feeling.

 

This isnt a move I can get excited about either.

 

I do think Bruce is competent though. Super talented? Probably not. But he just might be the right people person

[zoony]

This isnt a move I can get excited about either.

 

I do think Bruce is competent though. Super talented? Probably not. But he just might be the right people person

I spoke to Chris Russell in the press box of the Atlanta game. I asked him if he thought Bruce Allen would leave along with Shanahan at the end of the year, his response was "heck no Dan and Bruce are extremely tight". That was sort of shocking to me at the time because we all kind of knew that it was Shanahan who hired Bruce

I have no problem with keeping people around you that you know and like, but the general consensus of just about every non-Redskin fan football guy out there is that there are several other candidates around the league who are more qualified

Besides, I don't think you should be on great personal terms with your GM. I think there SHOULD be a bit of friction there, but with a healthy amount of professional respect. I think that a personal separation is key to a healthy business relationship

If this move fails, does Snyder retain his buddy and sell Scott Campbell down the river? Why isn't Bruce being held accountable for any of the last 4 years? I understand Shanahan had complete control, but Bruce has no accountability other than a brief statement in his press conference that we are "all 3-13"?

Okay. Fine. If everyone in this organization is 3-13 you better bring in some people from outside the organization. Promoting from within doesn't feel like the right move

[FrFan]

Things went wrong from the get go, you don't hire your head coach before your GM. Moreover, your head coach must not have more powers than the GM. That is why I think Allen is more of a yes man rather than a true GM. To me he looked like some sort of a promo tool for Snyder to get the satisfaction of the fans, because he is the son of a former great Redskins coach.

His record in Tampa 2005 11-5 and won the NFC South division, 2006 4-12, 2007  9-7 NFC South title in 2007, 2008 9-7 no playoffs he was released. His draft record in Tampa:

5 First Round Picks - 1 Pro Bowler , No Pro Bowlers in any other round

5 2nd Round Picks - 2 Starters, Barrett Rudd and Jeremy Trueblood, both are ho-hum

6 3rd Round Picks - 1 Good Player- Jeremy Zuttah

31 Picks after Rnd 3: 1 Starter

I really wished we would have made a real clean sweep of the house and hired a GM outside of this organization. Now we will see what he is up to, I hope he'll prove to be worthy of the position.

[KDawg]

I guess that clears it up then.

I explained it from my perspective. You choose to dismiss it. That's fine. But don't act like I only said, "sure he does".