"We were great once...Can we not be great again?" Thread

[RichmondRedskin88]

Let's be real.  Thngs in DC haven't been that great since Gibbs left.  He knew when to leave.  Sadly he came back and hurt part of his legacy by doing so.  We stumble through coach after coach.  Had a horrible GM running the show.  No stability at the QB position (unless you consider Brunell and B Johnson that).  A organization run by a man desperate to finally find success against a enormous amount of criticism. 

 

Last year we went from complete disappointment to pure unadulterated ecstasy(I choose those words on purpose).   Now with high hopes we fall right on our face and our fanbase has been left more disappointed than they were during the brutal years leading up to Shanahan's arrival.  Mainly because we expected so much more. 

 

Is this really the best we can do?  Is it beyond our reach to rise from the ashes and grab glory? We were great once.... Can we not be great again?

 

 

[RonYoungEra]

Yes, I'd like that.

[CGSKINS]

Nothing is going to change until the owner changes his mentality. Stop all the advertisements and promotions and focus on building a championship franchise.

First things first: Danny needs to hire a pure football guy to be the GM. When I say a "football guy" I'm talking about a guy that is going to dedicate his mind body and soul to finding the best talent to win a championship. Also Danny needs a guy that's going to tell him like it is and not be a yes man.

RG3 needs a real QB coach and a mentor. Kyle is supposed to be the OC/QB coach and it's not working. He needs a guy to teach him about being a leader and how to handle himself on and off the field as well showing him what it takes to be a great QB.

Danny also needs to rip that garbage field up and install field turf. Players are faster on field turf and with RG3 And his speed this could be an advantage. Rebuild Redskins park into the most advanced football facility in the NFL.

Change the game day experience. When I go to FedEx it feels fake. To much of the wine and cheese crowd. Make tickets and parking more affordable for the blue collar fan.

Put money into finding the best scouting department in the NFL.

[RonYoungEra]

Nothing is going to change until the owner changes his mentality. Stop all the advertisements and promotions and focus on building a championship franchise.

 

 

Well said and it seems so simple to us fans and I just can't fathom why Dan can't grasp this concept.  Is he just THAT far removed from things?! Can we forward your message on to him somehow?

[CGSKINS]

Well said and it seems so simple to us fans and I just can't fathom why Dan can't grasp this concept. Is he just THAT far removed from things?! Can we forward your message on to him somehow?

please to brotha. I hope he will hire me as his advisor. Lol!

[SkinsHokieFan]

It all starts at the top.

 

The Packers had 2 full decades of hell between Lombardi and Holmgren.

 

The Colts always seemed to suck until Manning.

 

The Steelers were miserable in the '80s.

 

The Pats pre Brady? Laughable.

 

The Browns have always sucked.

 

Winning and greatness are never guaranteed  

[Riggo-toni]

We once had a basketball team that went to the playoffs 12 or 13 years in a row, and went to the NBA finals 3 times in 6 years, and gave DC its first championship since the 40s.  How long has it been since they were good, let alone great.  The lesson to be learned - changing a controversial name doesn't help any...and it's possible to suck a long long time.

[thebluefood]

Well, the Browns haven't been great since the LBJ administration and the Lions have been awful even longer than that.

 

Then again, there have been a lot of teams that went through long stretches of mediocrity only to become powerhouse organizations. The Steelers were horrible until Chuck Noll built that dynasty. The Colts were awful in two different cities for almost forty years. It's amazing how we've forgotten how wretched the Pats were almost for their entire existence until Tom Brady stepped in and took the starting job.

 

I don't know where we're going to be. I don't know if Dan Snyder can create a winner in Washington. I don't know if this is just an extended funk or if this is how we're going to be forever. All we can do is take it one season at a time. This season is a losing season. Next season? Who knows.

[You'reNext]

Sadly it probably won't be till Snyder is gone.  We were spoilt by having such a great owner in Jack Kent Cooke in the glory years.  Showed us what a top flight organization was all about. 

 

Success or failure of an organization starts at the top.  Good people at the top then good people all the way through.  Bobby Beathard, Joe Gibbs, Joe Bugel, Richie Petitibon, Dan Henning, Don Breux, etc, etc.

[You'reNext]

We once had a basketball team that went to the playoffs 12 or 13 years in a row, and went to the NBA finals 3 times in 6 years, and gave DC its first championship since the 40s.  How long has it been since they were good, let alone great.  The lesson to be learned - changing a controversial name doesn't help any...and it's possible to suck a long long time.

 

The blueprint to success usually starts with being really, really bad for a couple years to establish your core.  In the NBA this would mean getting high lottery picks, NFL top 5 picks.  And then hitting on 70% of those 1st to 4th round picks in each draft. 

Also accumulating picks either through a Hershchell Walker type trade or as Belicheck does by trading down for more picks.

 

The downside of this strategy is that you are sacrifcing profits in those down years.  And this is essnetially what I think Dan Snyder isn't willing to do.  He would rather put a medicore product out there that is highly profitibable year to year, then have a couple down years profitiability wise in return for a superior product down the road.

 

That's essentially what happened with Abe Pollin.  He wasn't willing to tank a season.  So we were always good enough to make the playoffs but then get eliminated early and then end up with a 12-13 pick instead of a top 3 pick. 

 

The strategy was to always change things up, bring in Moses, or Bernard King, or Mugsy & Manute, trade for Webber, bring in John Nash, bring in Jordan, new coaches so that there would be that initial excitement due to change which would sell product and tickets.  When the excitement wore off and mediocrtiy continued then take out a one page ad in the Washington Post pledging commitment to the fans and team and then repeat the process.  The problem with this is that there was always too much change and an identity and system for the organization could never be established to go along with the problem of not getting marquee talent through the draft.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Nothing will change as long an Snyder owns the team.  I am convinced of that.

[Shiv]

Nothing will change as long an Snyder owns the team.  I am convinced of that.

 

 

I think it can change.  But he needs to remove himself completely from any decision making.  I think he should setup a board of trustees.  7 people.  He starts with one Board director, someone who has plenty of experience as a director.  That director then selects 6 trustees.  The trustees then vote on a General manager and run the organization while the GM runs the team.  Snyder sits up high in his Box and doesn't make anymore decisions.

[DieHardSkinsfanNJ]

Nothing is going to change until the owner changes his mentality. Stop all the advertisements and promotions and focus on building a championship franchise.

First things first: Danny needs to hire a pure football guy to be the GM. When I say a "football guy" I'm talking about a guy that is going to dedicate his mind body and soul to finding the best talent to win a championship. Also Danny needs a guy that's going to tell him like it is and not be a yes man.

RG3 needs a real QB coach and a mentor. Kyle is supposed to be the OC/QB coach and it's not working. He needs a guy to teach him about being a leader and how to handle himself on and off the field as well showing him what it takes to be a great QB.

Danny also needs to rip that garbage field up and install field turf. Players are faster on field turf and with RG3 And his speed this could be an advantage. Rebuild Redskins park into the most advanced football facility in the NFL.

Change the game day experience. When I go to FedEx it feels fake. To much of the wine and cheese crowd. Make tickets and parking more affordable for the blue collar fan.

Put money into finding the best scouting department in the NFL.

This

[elkabong82]

The secret to long-term, sustained success in the NFL is having either an elite QB and a defense that creates sacks and turnovers, or an elite defense with a good game-manager QB and a sound run game. Basically one side of the ball has to be elite, and the other side has to do enough to not lose games. 

 

Having an elite QB helps a ton. You can be competitive and mask weaknesses, and even rebuild and not suffer too much in the W-L column. Patriots.

 

Having an elite defense helps a ton. It doesn't put a ton of pressure on the offense to score a ton, and they can manage games with a good ground game and competent but not elite QB play. 49ers.

 

This is why, unless we lose out, I'm on the fence with Shanny but will support him coming back if we finish strong with some wins. Even with our struggles this season (and let's be honest, if RG3 wasn't injured there would be very few in the fire Shanny circle), the offense has been a top performing unit. RG3 is a franchise QB and if you add in another solid receiver to go with Garcon and Reed, and you have Morris and Helu, Shanny is going to make that offense elite. Add in a new DC that can make the defense middle of the pack, and you have a team that can compete for championships. 

 

The issue we saw with losing Danny Smith could be the same with a new HC and OC, that is that people think it can't get worse, but then it does. Again, if Shanny craps the bed and we lose out then yeah you've pretty much got to fire him. But with Reed and Young coming back and RG3 looking better in the pocket, and the last 3 games all being winnable, we could end on a good note, and then it might better to stick with the known on offense. Kyle and Shanny both have had good results on offense before. If they can finish the season strong, then let them have the cap room to bolster the team. Unless of course he won't fire Haslett, in which case he can be shown the door with him right away then. Burns should go too. 

 

I just think about the constant changes Campbell faced, the lack of stability, I don't want to see that happen with RG3. If Shanny is fired, likely based on these last few games, from what I've interpreted from those willing to share, speculation is Bruce becomes Pres, Morocco VP/GM, Smith retains advisor role, and they make the decision on coach and players, i.e. the normal structure you see around the league, which IMO would be fine. If this were the case and we hired a new HC, it has to, has to, has to be one that is focused on RG3 and developing his pocket skills further. 

 

But, if we end on a 3 game win streak, and hire Rex Ryan or MIke Singletary as DC, get 2 new OL and another solid WR, a NT, SS, and ILB, then I think when RG3 comes back healthy this team is in good shape. If we do fire Shanny, going for a new HC is still a big gamble, even after our poor record. We'd be starting over, and the new guy has RG3 to develop, and a bunch of cap room to use, and all draft picks save for the 1st, and they are all high picks within each round. That is A LOT for a guy to work with, which is great, but also that is a lot that a new guy could screw up. I have to wait to see how this season finishes before I can tell which direction I'd be happier with.

[MusicCitySkin]

Since Snyder, the team's made the playoffs on an average of 3.5 seasons. 2.5 more to go!

[skins island connection]

 One thing that really threw a monkey wrench into the NFL was Plan B back in the early 90's; it was an invitation to players to shop their services if not restricted, and Gibbs saw this coming and I am convinced this was part of the reason why he retired the first time.

 

 But also look at how the game has evolved [ devolved ] especially today with new rules every year, where you can/can't hit a receiver, how he is classified as 'defenseless' , it all hinges on a ref's opinion.

 

 Also, today's NFL is about money first and foremost. Teams can have a few great players who seem to be full of promise, which draws fans to pay their hard earned money to see them play, but have little help to advance the career of that player. Look at the fields today; no more RFK Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Three Rivers Stadium, and so on, because money has taken over as the main priority over winning. Stadiums now are named after insurances, investment companies, etc, and every few years a new stadium is built to hold even more people which increases ticket sales profit.

 

 Football has changed a lot from 20-30 years ago, and the current commissioner Goodell wants things done his way or no way, fining players for questionable hits;  I would bet that Sean Taylor would be broke every year from the fines he would incur from Goodell !

 

 There are only a few teams which can emerge through this and be perennial winners year in and out, and a good coach and QB are good places to start; only time will tell if this holds true in Redskins Park.

[thebluefood]

To be fair, skins island connection, the old cookie cutter stadiums were considered state of the art in their day. I'm sure people were moaning and groaning for the old days at Griffith Stadium when D.C./RFK Stadium opened and hosted those historically terrible Redskins teams of the early 1960s. 

[skins island connection]

 Yea, and maybe it has to do with me being spoiled watching the games back in the 80's with Brent Musburger saying 'you are looking live at RFK stadium' that has me twisted a tad. For the newer Redskin fans who never had the opportunity to see/attend a game there, even as run down as it was, it was still the Redskins back yard, and opponents who didn't know it before certainly knew it afterwards.

 But looking at Fed Ex Field, it is a lifeless [ for the most part ] cold building, except for the very few times like the last game vs Dallas last year where it almost felt like RFK.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Sadly I'm too young to remember the skins being great, the team has been a laughing stock my entire adult life.

[Bishop Hammer]

I think it can change. But he needs to remove himself completely from any decision making. I think he should setup a board of trustees. 7 people. He starts with one Board director, someone who has plenty of experience as a director. That director then selects 6 trustees. The trustees then vote on a General manager and run the organization while the GM runs the team. Snyder sits up high in his Box and doesn't make anymore decisions.

Snyder is starting to not be so involved in the football operations. But he will never remove himself completely.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The blueprint to success usually starts with being really, really bad for a couple years to establish your core.  In the NBA this would mean getting high lottery picks, NFL top 5 picks.  And then hitting on 70% of those 1st to 4th round picks in each draft. 

Also accumulating picks either through a Hershchell Walker type trade or as Belicheck does by trading down for more picks.

 

 

Not really. Not in the NFL. Cleveland, Buffalo, and Jacksonville have picked high for years to little success. 

 

In the NFL, it starts with getting a QB. Get Drew Brees, you become New Orleans. Miss on Drew Brees, you become the Dolphins.

 

By the way, since 2001, only Reggie Bush and AJ Hawk are players taken in the Top 5 have won a Super Bowl on the team that drafted him. Eli Manning won two Super Bowls but not for San Diego. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Nothing is going to change until the owner changes his mentality. Stop all the advertisements and promotions and focus on building a championship franchise.

Change the game day experience. When I go to FedEx it feels fake. To much of the wine and cheese crowd. Make tickets and parking more affordable for the blue collar fan.

Put money into finding the best scouting department in the NFL.

What do any of these things have to do with making the team great?

 

Every team uses ads. That's the only way they can have a stadium to play in.

 

WTF is a wine and cheese crowd? How do you determine who is in said crowd? Prices are the same in every sport. Nothing will change that. You can charge five bucks for a ticket and ppl still won't show if the TEAM sucks. 

[thebluefood]

Sadly I'm too young to remember the skins being great, the team has been a laughing stock my entire adult life.

Same here. The first Redskins memory is the '96 Thanksgiving Day game. I think we all remember how well that game went.

 

Oh, Norv...

[skins island connection]

bluefood,

question for ya;

I doubt it would ever happen, BUT, if the Skins were to play a pre-season/regular season game in RFK, do you think they'd win, regardless of who the opponent was?

I do.  Maybe I'm losing it, doubtful, but the hype of playing a game there, and hopefully ticket scalpers wouldn't sell tickets to anyone except Redskin fans,  the atmosphere of RFK would envelop every player, at least the ones who are familiar with its history.

[RichmondRedskin88]

I'll just shut up now.......