Does (NOT should) Shanahan get a fifth year as head coach?

[Koolblue13]

If I am inferring correctly from your post, I too think he will go into next year with no extension. No FA or assistant coach is any more likely to come here with some bogus, cosmetic extension.

 

I think he'll be given 2014 as his true evaluation. Barring another stroke of bad lukc, he'll have no excuses left (cap penalty, major off-season injury, etc.). If we are doing well during the season, Snyder can extend him at any time.

That is exactly what I'm thinking. I think he gets extended next season, when we are winning and he is out of the fandom dog house.

[Commander PK]

I say Yes, he should get at least year 5.  

 

I can't imagine a situation where the defensive coaching (possibly special teams as well) isn't changed after this season, and as long as that happens...I'm good with the offensive side of the ball.  I'm good with the Shanahans, and I'm good with everything else that the organization has been doing to improve the team except of course 3-7. A lot of things, and some significant ones of which were beyond the control of the organization have led us to this.  I'm giving a lot of weight at this point to the salary cap penalty and Robert's lack of a normal off-season.  One thing we should not want is change for change's sake. Some people say 4 years is enough.  I say 4 normal years is enough.  The 4 years this regime had?  Not enough.  Lockout, cap gate, Robert's rehab, the state of the organization prior to the arrival of the new regime...all those things have significantly hampered us...yet we still managed to capture a division championship, and probably would have won at least one playoff game without the injury to Robert last season.  

 

With that said, the only thing that may make me change my mind, is if the team lays down for the last month and a half and ends up finishing 4-12 or 5-11.  I would say at this point I'm 90% convinced Shanahan should get year 5.

 

Depends on how they lose the games also.  If they play everybody tough and lose some close ones...If they get blown out by just about everybody they play.  All that matters.

and to answer the question.  Yes, I think he will.  Sorry, I got a bit off track with what the thread was actually asking here.  

 

I think he is safe for at least one more season.  I expect a competitive team for the next 6 games.  

[Wyvern]

As the OP indicated, I'm not going to debate whether Shanahan "should" be retained ... The question at hand is the speculating on WHETHER Mike gets a 5th year.

It's still too early to be certain ... However I'd place my bet on Shanahan coming back for a fifth year, with a single year extension in his pocket. (The extension will offer Shanahan some protective clauses, but wouldn't be that much of a guarantee.)

The win-loss record will determine how many of Shanahan's current coaching staff stays in place. However, if it looks like Shanahan is not really coming back for a 6th year, how many good coaching candidates are going to sign up to be part of team Shanahan? So it's possible that some coaches (like Haslett) might linger on -- unless a good replacement is willing to take a chance on sticking with the Skins should year 5 turn out badly.

[pjfootballer]

People like to talk about the cap penalty. I'm more frightened of the idea of Mike Shanahan having all that cap money to spend.

Why?  When has Mike Shanahan ever "broke the bank" to sign a free agent?  He had the same position in Denver and I cannot recall one break the bank free agent he signed while in Denver.  I think our fans have got to stop being afraid to spend money.  I'm not saying we should go "Albert Haynesworth" on free agents this offseason, but you have to have a balance of draft picks and free agents.

 

Fans need to stop correlating what Vinny did 13 years ago when he signed Smith, Sanders, George and Carrier.  I have confidence that this FO will get these types of free agents, because they already have:

 

1) 28 years and under- which is in the prime of their career.

 

2) Cap friendly and cap flexible contracts- Bruce is good at that.

 

3) Players that actually fit the scheme- We did that when we signed, Bowen, Cofield (3-4 guys), Garcon and even Morgan (YAC and good blockers)

 

We've been dealing with an 18 million dollar handicap the last 2 years. That would be at least 3 grade A starters or 4-5 grade B starters.  Most teams that don't spend money in FA lose.  There are a couple of teams that don't spend alot of money, but win and that's Pittsburgh and Green Bay.  But both have been hit by the injury bug and are aging, and it's starting to show.

 

Keep the draft picks, try to get 1 or 2 more each draft AND get some free agents.  Balance.

[pjfootballer]

Boy I tell you, if I hear another person tell me about this damn cap hit I am going to lose my mind. You have teams that rarely bring in free agents and have phenomenal years ala Green Bay because they draft well. IN THOSE TWO YEARS of cap penalty, name 8 free agents this team could have signed to make a difference on offense and defense that Shanahan could have recruited? Also let's start looking at Shanahan's draft in 2011 because these players are coming up on three years and this is when they should be contributing heavily. Mind the board in 2011, Washington had 12 draft picks.

Well, what do you want us to say?  I mean, unlike the other 30 teams, we've been dealing with 18 million less a year for two years.  Dallass had a relatively low 5 million each year.  Green Bay and Pittsburgh are two organizations that are top notch, but their age and depth is starting to show as neither have drafted great the last few years.  For every Pittsburgh and GB, I can counter with Buffalo, Jacksonville, Cincy, Cleveland, Kansas City and Tennessee as examples of teams that don't spend jack and don't win jack.

 

Free agents would could have had that might have made a difference?  Some of these guys we were rumored to be interested in, but couldn't pay:

 

Vincent Jackson- his deal is similar to Garcon's.

Eddie Royal- him being at Mortons is a classic joke, but could you imagine him replacing Moss in the slot with Garcon and VJax?

Marshall Yanda (G)- All Pro that would have replaced Lich or Chester and solidified the interior of the OL

Eric Winston- Perfect fit at RT. No Polumus, Black, Pashos, etc, etc. Would have solidified the right side with him and Yanda

Aqib Talib- We didn't have room under the cap to trade for him. 

Any Free Safety!!!

 

I just named 5 off the top of my head.  Plus, we could have re-signed Lorenzo Alexander and maybe added a decent ILB to backup Fletcher instead of having to sign an old Nick Barnett.

 

So, yes, it had a HUGE effect on us for two years.  Not to mention we had to beg our own free agents to take pay cuts and sign for the minimum.

 

Now, I'm not sayiing the cap hit was the "only" reason we suck, but it did have an affect on the way we put our roster together.

[CrypticVillain]

When Shanahan first came here, I think he said something like, I need five years. If you are not going to give me five years, then I am not your guy. Or something like that.

 

To me it comes down to if Snyder trusts Shanhan or not. If he trusts him, he will give him the 5th year. But if he doesn't, Shanny is toasted and we will be looking for a new coach.

[Commander PK]

 

So, yes, it had a HUGE effect on us for two years.  Not to mention we had to beg our own free agents to take pay cuts and sign for the minimum.

 

Now, I'm not sayiing the cap hit was the "only" reason we suck, but it did have an affect on the way we put our roster together.

You hit it out of the park.  I really think that many fans fail to grasp the impact of that penalty on the team. 

 

For the next two years you have 36 million dollars LESS to spend then everyone else in the league.  Do people really not realize the impact of that?  I'm not talking about not expecting results and being down when we lose, but come on.  Any objective person could look at the situation, and call it for what it is. 

 

Our ability to grow as a team was significantly hampered on purpose.  Yes, it made a huge difference.

[Commander PK]

Of course, there is also the argument advanced by some and other threads that because we are going to have a lot of cap space, that may be a reason to cut ties and have a new coach and GM come in fresh and influence the personnel decisions instead of potentially live with the consequences of what Shanny would do in 2014.

 

 

Now for me, I don't think this makes any sense at all.

 

You bring in a new coach who doesn't know the team, has never coached them before, doesn't know their tendencies, how they practice, their character, nothing....and ask him to spend money to fill in our weaknesses? 

 

Most first year coaches spend their first year just learning what they have on the team.

[Commander PK]

Look at the game film?  Yeah, sure, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

there isn't even any precedent set for what was done to this team.  It's not like we can look back and see how somebody else handled the situation.  This never happened before.

[PapaLazarou]

This isn't about a precedent about the salary cap, it's about placing all the excuses aside and looking precisely at the decisions Shanny has made with this team and discussing if another GM could have done a better job. And there is a precedent for that. Other teams have turned it around in less time with more success.

[Commander PK]

This isn't about a precedent about the salary cap, it's about placing all the excuses aside and looking precisely at the decisions Shanny has made with this team and discussing if another GM could have done a better job. And there is a precedent for that. Other teams have turned it around in less time with more success.

 

but again, none of those teams that "turned it around" in 4 years were dealt a cap space penalty of that magnitude on the eve of free agency.  The ultimate screw job.  You can't just gloss over the fact that for the last two years this team has had 18 million less to work with in salary cap space per year than everyone else in the league with the exception of Dallas who was penalized 5 million over two seasons. 

 

You can't just dismiss that fact.  Despite it we still won the NFC East last year. 

[Bishop Hammer]

Everytime I read about the cap penalty it makes The Giants 0-6 start all the more better. Screw Mara!

[Skins3000]

Well, what do you want us to say?  I mean, unlike the other 30 teams, we've been dealing with 18 million less a year for two years.  Dallass had a relatively low 5 million each year.  Green Bay and Pittsburgh are two organizations that are top notch, but their age and depth is starting to show as neither have drafted great the last few years.  For every Pittsburgh and GB, I can counter with Buffalo, Jacksonville, Cincy, Cleveland, Kansas City and Tennessee as examples of teams that don't spend jack and don't win jack.

 

Free agents would could have had that might have made a difference?  Some of these guys we were rumored to be interested in, but couldn't pay:

 

Vincent Jackson- his deal is similar to Garcon's.

Eddie Royal- him being at Mortons is a classic joke, but could you imagine him replacing Moss in the slot with Garcon and VJax?

Marshall Yanda (G)- All Pro that would have replaced Lich or Chester and solidified the interior of the OL

Eric Winston- Perfect fit at RT. No Polumus, Black, Pashos, etc, etc. Would have solidified the right side with him and Yanda

Aqib Talib- We didn't have room under the cap to trade for him. 

Any Free Safety!!!

 

I just named 5 off the top of my head.  Plus, we could have re-signed Lorenzo Alexander and maybe added a decent ILB to backup Fletcher instead of having to sign an old Nick Barnett.

 

So, yes, it had a HUGE effect on us for two years.  Not to mention we had to beg our own free agents to take pay cuts and sign for the minimum.

 

Now, I'm not sayiing the cap hit was the "only" reason we suck, but it did have an affect on the way we put our roster together.

Scratch Aqib Talib because as you mentioned he was a traded player, Eric Winston was cut by the Texans, then cut by the Chiefs so he does not sound like a wise investment. Yanda resigned with the Ravens thus obvious he was not going any where while Vincent Jackson would have been a nice addition but could the team afford Garcon to boot. Eddie Royal signed but then he did not sign but he signed again with the Chargers. So out of that list of five, one player would have been worth an investment in Vincent Jackson.

 

My problem is Yanda was a third round draft pick while Eric Winston also was a third round pick. Mike Shanahan did not make the draft picks to protect the investment in RG3 because the team had plenty of third round draft picks but how where they used?  Jordan Reed is showing great potential and I like the kid very much but Fred Davis could have performed just as well. Josh LeRibeus is not even touching the field.

 

 What people fail to realize, and I have heard it time and time again, the Redskins were warned not to dump salaries by the league but they did it any way. The Haynesworth deal was going to affect the team regardless of the cap penalty because it was a bad deal. Owners were also pissed at Snyder for giving a player such absurd money that drove up the franchise tag and I cannot say that I blame them because Haynesworth was a bust. Mike knew this problem before Mike walked in the door so it was not a big surprise and should have prepared for the Haynesworth debacle more appropriately instead of trying to sucker punch the league.

[That Redskins Fan]

NO..

 

24-34 record as head coach

 

3/4yrs a sub 500 record. the seven game win streak only changed that

 

3/4  yrs the defense and special teams have been a damn joke

 

Hiring a 43 coordinator to run a 34 defense  just plain stupid

 

. In his tenure  hear as a coach I do not fell this is a well coached team

 

undiscplined players, stupid penalites, poor clock managment, poor situational footballl..

 

enough is enough.

 

And for everyone who says  let me stay for stability..stability of sub 500 continues

[Koolblue13]

His contract includes next season, correct? Snyder has fired ONE coach since his first coach (which he admitted was a mistake) and it was Jim freaking Zorn, who didn't even know the team colors. It's absurd to think he gets fired. I'd say as absurd as dismissing the cap penalty, the come back from injury for a very young QB and a lot of the other obvious reasons we are bad.

[hail2skins]

His contract includes next season, correct? Snyder has fired ONE coach since his first coach (which he admitted was a mistake) and it was Jim freaking Zorn, who didn't even know the team colors.

Who do you consider to be his first coach.....Norv or Marty?  Because he fired them both, and the only time I heard him admit a mistake was firing Norv before the season had ended.  Firing Marty was a huge mistake (which I've never heard Snyder do a mea culpa for), and before the Snyder apologists say "But Marty wouldn't allow Dan to hire a GM," just what GM did Dan hire after he fired Marty.  Oh that's right, the weasel............

 

And lets be honest........if there was a Redskins coach that was immune to being fired no matter what, it was Joe Gibbs.  Spurrier is still very much a mystery to me. Why he walked away from $5 million per year for three more years is baffling.

 

To the topic at hand.....I agree that Shanahan will likely be given some sort of extension in the offseason.  But its understood by many coaches, including as Mike himself said in early 2012, that "they never give you the last year," although he made that statement before the salary cap penalties were known, so I think that will come into play for Snyder's decisionmaking. But how the Skins perform down the stretch is also going to influence Dan's call as well.  I think the team will perform well enough and finish with 6-7 wins, making his decision easier. But tomorrow night may be very telling about how this team does the rest of the way.

[Tatankgough]

I would say that the only way Mike Shanahan and Kyle stay for the full five years is if the HC fires Hasshat and Burns and brings in some really well tested and resumed Coaches to take over. Once we get good coaches to take care of the vital 2 aspects of the game and we see marked improvements there than the offense can better be evaluated to see if Mike and Son are worth keeping or not.

 

Hasshat has had a history of bottom feeding defenses and Burns couldn't have a better last name to indicate his abilities.

 

It is my opinion that there is plenty of talent on this team, with on caveat concerning our offensive line and defensive lines. With a better pool of talent on the OL Griffin would definitely be more able to be more accurate and I do believe that he is an accurate passer when he is 100% healthy and trusting his knee. Throwing with your legs is really the key to the passing game for a QB and it is obvious that he is struggling with that this year.

 

Also with a better OL Morris, Helu Jr. and better developed Chris Thompson will dominate in the running game and out of the backfield catching passes.

 

The DL is a major problem and has been since  Hasshat got here, Orakpos insistence in only employing the bull rush technique will never allow him to progress, we are in one helluva need for a better NT. I agree that Cofield is good, but we need a great one to push the pocket back and to demand double teams. Jarvis Jenkins is still a mystery to me, I believe the talent is there and perhaps he needs another offseason to bring that talent to the fore. The rest of the season will show a lot about Jenkins. MLB is a huge need, LF is losing ground fast, this year he just isn't fast enough and not much of a factor.

 

I think if we get a stronger line that can get consistant pressure on QB's so the secondary isn't having to cover guys for 4-5 seconds the defense would look light years better. Of course that observation is one that is glaringly obvious to most of the fans on this forum and virtually all the analysts.

 

This years draft better be all about the OL,DL and IMLB

 

Special Teams has the talent, but the Coaching and the methods are horrible. We do need a quality punter that too is obvious.

[Commander PK]

 What people fail to realize, and I have heard it time and time again, the Redskins were warned not to dump salaries by the league but they did it any way. The Haynesworth deal was going to affect the team regardless of the cap penalty because it was a bad deal. Owners were also pissed at Snyder for giving a player such absurd money that drove up the franchise tag and I cannot say that I blame them because Haynesworth was a bust. Mike knew this problem before Mike walked in the door so it was not a big surprise and should have prepared for the Haynesworth debacle more appropriately instead of trying to sucker punch the league.

 

The NFL had no grounds for the action they took.  1st off, they approved the contracts they later penalized the Redskins for.  2nd...they stated that the Redskins and Cowboys broke no rules.  3rd, the only reason they are even getting away with this is because the player's union stupidly signed off on the penalty.  4th, by design 2010 was an uncapped year, and each team within the NFL has already been designated as it's own seperate entity.  Basically, without the cap the Redskins and anybody else should have been able to spend whatever they wanted.  

 

If the NFL wanted a salary cap in place, they should have finished a deal with the players before 2010 so the Redskins would have never been able to do what they did.  Yes, the Redskins did take advantage of the situation, and smartly so, because the NFL should not have been able to do anything about it.  The NFL is big money though, and big money does what it wants.  You and me...the little people...the peasants....we would not be so lucky. The owners wanted their cake, and to eat it also.  Me and You?  We'd be in prison. Nobody gives a **** about us.

 

What this boils down to, is that the other owners hate that the Redskins have been able to drive player salaries up for several years...beyond their control to do anything about it.  Now, they saw an opportunity, however unethical and ultimately illegal it was to get back at them, and they took it.  This cap penalty is a HUGE black stain on the league as far as this fan is concerned, because ultimately the NFL succeeded in greatly diminishing our ability to be competitive, and potentially forcing the team to have to put out a product that was inferior to what should have been on the field.  Like I said then and I say it now...Redskins season ticket holders should have sued the NFL.  Most people I'm sure bought their tickets before the cap penalty was announced.

[Commander PK]

Spurrier is still very much a mystery to me. Why he walked away from $5 million per year for three more years is baffling.

 

Honestly, I think he did not want to put in the level of hard work that is required of a head coach in the NFL.  Everything in the NFL was going to be harder.  Spurrier was set in his ways...ways that would not work at the professional level.  

[wit33]

I have to see the full five years out. There are just too many crazy things that had to be dealt with by this regime to give up on them now. I much prefer going in to this free agent period with stability from a schematic stand point (ie. getting players that fit a scheme). In years past the Skins would splurge on free agents and lack stability in the scheme/coaches. 

[MrJL]

 

My problem is Yanda was a third round draft pick while Eric Winston also was a third round pick. Mike Shanahan did not make the draft picks to protect the investment in RG3 because the team had plenty of third round draft picks but how where they used?  Jordan Reed is showing great potential and I like the kid very much but Fred Davis could have performed just as well. Josh LeRibeus is not even touching the field.

 

 What people fail to realize, and I have heard it time and time again, the Redskins were warned not to dump salaries by the league but they did it any way. The Haynesworth deal was going to affect the team regardless of the cap penalty because it was a bad deal. Owners were also pissed at Snyder for giving a player such absurd money that drove up the franchise tag and I cannot say that I blame them because Haynesworth was a bust. Mike knew this problem before Mike walked in the door so it was not a big surprise and should have prepared for the Haynesworth debacle more appropriately instead of trying to sucker punch the league.

 

You have no idea if Fred Davis could be playing as well as Reed.  

 

And you are flat wrong to give any blame to the Redskins on the NFL's actions.

 

On the subject of Shanny, yeah, I guess you give him the fifth year.  Though honestly it might nt be a bad idea to switch.  The Skins have some solid players and no real money tied up into system guys.

[TheCoach22]

Yes, Shanny is going to get year five and perhaps an additional year. Danny needs to stay committed to the five-year plan and he will extend him a year because the money means less to him (should he fire him at the end of five) than the drama of having a listen to all the "lame duck" conversation. I also think the Redskins are going to do enough the rest of this season to have everyone a step or two away from the ledge.

 

Predictions

-We finish winning at least four of the remaining games. (This is based on the fact that the team has been close and competitive and that all other teams with lopsided records seems to have runs in them this season)

-We finish ahead of the NYG at least, maybe even better.

-We fire Burns and Haslett almost as quickly as we fired Zorn at the end of the season.

 

Beliefs

-RGIII has not taken a step forward, he has taken a step back, but that is to be expected coming off such an injury. He continues to grow these last six games. (By the way, his numbers are right there with Luck, Wilson, etc. and he is having a much better year than Eli Manning, who is having only slightly worse than a typical Eli Manning season...I find the criticism of RGII excessive)

-The Shanny as the GM talk is overblown because he does not have full control... Bruce is the cap guy who keeps a checks and balance going. I can't see us over reaching on a system guy because Bruce is in involved in the contract talks). This makes me okay with Shanny as player evaluator on the offensive side of the ball.

-Hire a D Coordinator ASAP and let him make decisions on the D side of the ball given the track record of Shanny and Ds.

-ST will get better with a true NFL caliber coordinator, punter and depth (F-Mara). But Burns has already lost his squad and needs to be kicked to the curb.

 

Wishes

-I would love the Skins to fire the entire defensive staff. Honestly, if the D had played middle of the road this season the team is 5-5 and in contention heading into this evening.

-I would love to see the Skins pay Mike Zimmer the equivalent to HC money to come fix the defense.

-I would love to see the focus being on one more playmaking WR for RGIII, and linemen who are competent.

-THE SHANNYS NEED TO WORK HARDER THAN THEY EVER HAVE BEFORE... IF THEY WANT RGIII TO EVOLVE THEY HAVE TO EVOLVE WITH THE OFFENSE AGAIN. BUILD ON WHAT CONTINUES TO WORK, DEVELOP THE OFFENSE TO THE NEXT PHASE. NOT BEING ABLE TO GET DAVIS AND REED ON THE SAME FIELD WHEN THERE IS NO #2 WR ON THIS TEAM, HAVING A BACK LIKE HELU AND NO SCREEN GAME, HAVING A SWISS CHEESE LINE AND NOT ROLLING OUT ROBERT MORE, ETC. BAFFLE ME. I LIKE THE GENERAL OFFENSIVE PLAYCALLING BUT THESE THINGS ARE DRIVING ME INSANE.

[Mursilis]

The Post had an article over the weekend suggesting the next six games will decide Shanahan's fate, but there was no new information from inside team management to suggest Shanahan was on any kind of hot-seat, so the Post article was ultimately worthless.  If Snyder is actually thinking of firing Shanahan assuming the losing continues, Snyder is keeping awfully quiet about it.  As for the players, the ones quoted for the article seemed positive; there was no sense in the article Shanahan had lost the locker room. 

[mike42]

Snyder already earned his patient badge with Steve Spurrier. Actually, Snyder has been more patient than a lot of NFL owners.

 

Does Snyder believe Shanny is going turn us into a legit team every season? Probably not. So why bother keeping Shanahan for a 5th season? Snyder may have committed to 5 years, but regressing in the process isn't what Snyder agreed to. To make it easier, I can hope Shanny retires in January. With next year's cap, it's wise to give a new coach that golden opportunity. Not only changes to coaching staff, but have a real front office with a GM calling the shots.

[knowledge316]

Cap penalties did not have any effect on Mike's decision to hire Burns, to keep Haslett and hire all his staff, to keep his buddy Slowik on the defensive staff. Mike does not understand defense and yet he's made every single hire on that side of the ball and dumped it on Haslett. I believe a better ST and DC coach would not have those units as the worst in Redskins history. Even if they are fired in the offseason, I don't trust Mike to make the correct hires when history has shown that he doesn't make good hires on the defensive side.